Chinelle Rojas 0:00

“I’m just a go-getter. It’s a bit like I like to say in my bio, I’m a go-getter. I go get groceries, go get things for my kids, but I also, you know, a creative at heart. So, I’m always trying to channel that into something.”

Candice Wu 0:23

That’s Chinelle Rojas, the guest of this episode, Chinelle brings an intimate, raw, real, unapologetic, tender and powerful way of revealing stories and experiences of births, and very specific images of women and families of color in their goddess, and between worlds with their babies.

Candice Wu 0:44

In this episode, she talks about how she’s able to create a ripple effect of change for black women and women of color through her photography.

Candice Wu 0:57

Hello, and welcome. You’re listening to the Embody Podcast, a show about remembering and embodying your true nature, inner wisdom, embodied healing and self-love.

Candice Wu 1:10

My name is Candice Wu and I’m a holistic healing facilitator, intuitive coach, and artist, sharing my personal journey of vulnerability, offering meditations and guided healing support, and having co-creative conversations with healers and wellness practitioners from all over the world.

Candice Wu 1:28

I want to make a quick announcement that also is in support of the podcast that I’ve recently been supporting people by holding one-on-one emergence with them. This is completely collaborative and designed specifically by you or you can hand over the details to me to handle, but it is a wonderful opportunity to get one on one time with me in an immersive setting where we can work exactly what with what you are wanting, desiring, challenged within your life, from all these different ways of embodied healing, family constellations, somatic experiencing, spiritual practices, voice dialogue as well as being a space that you and I select together that can hold your experience.

Candice Wu 2:25

This can be with or without a horse, where we have experiences to be with a horse, and journey into connection and wisdom that the horse can bring. The horses are extremely intuitive and consents, what you’re feeling and what you’re not feeling, and mirror that to you as a way to bring you more information on the next path of your life.

Candice Wu 2:53

I love doing this work with people because it gives me the chance to hold that space in a longer period of time that we can really go deep and get to the root of things as well as support you in feeling the peace and pleasure that you want to feel. You can find more about that at CandiceWu.com, and also by reaching out to me via email or through the website at Embody at CandiceWu.com.

Candice Wu 3:21

This offering, as well as other offerings that I have, are all in support of the podcast. Some of the proceeds go towards producing this podcast and bringing new guests on, and I’ve been talking about this for a couple of weeks now, but there is a database of all healing experientials and meditations that are on the podcast by me as well as guests, and you can search on that for things that you’re looking for, the pages at CandiceWu.com/meditations. The podcast also has its own search at CandiceWu.com/podcast.

Candice Wu 3:57

On top of that, each of the podcasts are being transcribed. The experientials and meditations are, too. So, in case you prefer to digest the material through the written word and your visual acuity, then you can go on to each podcast link, and right below where it says that you can click to listen, there’s a transcription. The experientials and meditations are being completed in backward order, so, starting from the newest and most recent, working its way backward, and we’ve got about three-quarters of them done, which is really exciting. Now let’s jump into this episode.

Candice Wu 4:37

Welcome, everyone. It’s good to have you back. As we bring this episode forward, I want to highlight how Chinelle brought the topic of how powerful in images, we look at images all the time, and they inform what we think, what we think we know, what we know, and how it is that we approach the world, and I was just thinking about being with horses, and all of the pictures that I’ve been posting on Instagram lately of just being around them and with them meditating with them, and there is a part of me that hopes that more people will see that where horses are at liberty and they’re not forced to do anything, but we respect them and listen to them, and are able to take in the wisdom that they’re bringing, the gifts that they’re bringing without forcing them to do what they don’t want to do.

Candice Wu 5:38

Of course, some horses love riding or love to work in a certain way, but some of them are not and they’re hurt or taken from their homes or forced to do things when they’re showing us with their cues and their emotions that they don’t like it. So, that was just something I’ve been thinking about as I had completed this interview with Chinelle, and I wonder in what way you might find inspiration with that in the images that you’re sharing. What is it that you share if you post on Facebook, Instagram or LinkedIn or any sort of social media? What is it that you see? And what is that doing for? What is the status quo or the change that is emerging in the world?

Candice Wu 6:34

So, just some food for thought as we jump into this episode, with Chinelle Rojas, who is the Tampa birth photographer. Chinelle’s eye for honesty in her photographs and life is really beautiful and inspiring to me, and it on earth silenced and quieted areas of our humanity into conversation through her imagery. She shares that she started her photography journey late in 2010, and shot her first birth in the spring of 2011, and she’s an advocate in the birth community and the founder of The Melanated Birth, which is a community dedicated to the representation of families of color and birth, and whose mission is to bring awareness to women of color of all the options available to them through their birthing process, through imagery of birth.

Candice Wu 7:26

So, from her, you’ll learn why diversity in the birth world is greatly needed, and how it can truly save lives, and how if you’re a photographer, you can work towards building a diverse portfolio or if you are interested in having someone capture the moments of your birth or in bringing your birth images to the world, you can touch in wishing out. I also really enjoyed the part of the conversation where we talked about slaves birthing, and what she did when she googled it and found only like one image, the creative solution she found to bring some exposure to that world. So, without further ado, here is Chinelle Rojas.

Candice Wu 8:19

Right, Chinelle, I’m so excited to have you here today on the podcast. Your work has really inspired me and I just love scrolling through Instagram. You’re a birth photographer, wife, mom, an advocate, logo designer, videographer and photographer. It’s a lot of things. So, I’d like to welcome you to the show.

Chinelle Rojas 8:41

Thanks for having me.

Candice Wu 8:44

So, tell me, tell me about your work and what draws you into what you do.

Chinelle Rojas 8:51

So, obviously, that depends on what work you’re referring to, exactly…

Candice Wu 8:57

Yeah.

Chinelle Rojas 8:58

Because I do a lot of things, but with the birth, like the whole birth photography thing, backstory as a kid growing up, I was wanted to be a doctor, and then I got to the end of high school and realized in order to be a doctor, I had to do a lot more school, and decided, maybe not, I don’t want to be a doctor.

Candice Wu 9:25

The practical side comes through.

Chinelle Rojas 9:27

Yeah, you’re like, No, no, I don’t think so.

Candice Wu 9:29

You, not too much.

Chinelle Rojas 9:30

So, I hung that up. The whole idea of being a doctor, I did attempt to go to college like four times and dropped out four times, wasted money and all that kind of stuff, but ultimately, I kind of found my way into the birth photography realm and realized this is a way to be a part of the medical community. Things that interest me don’t curse me out without actually having to have a degree and go to school for a bajillion more years, and I just like the storytelling aspect of it, and it’s so empowering just to be like a witness to like life coming into the world. There’s nothing like it and I just kind of enjoy doing it. I’m so glad that I like, took that step and tried it.

Candice Wu 10:35

Yeah, that’s awesome. Yeah, maybe it’s really fitting we can hear your kids in the background. Talking about life into the world and touring the world.

Chinelle Rojas 10:46

Yes.

Candice Wu 10:47

Yeah. You know, that was really, that’s really one of the things that draws me to your photography, with birth photography is that it just, it feels like you are capturing and you’re witnessing and being with this just magical experience that probably has no words to describe, but if you could try, what is it like for you to be in the room with a woman or a couple, whoever is birthing, and to documented and capture these moments.

Chinelle Rojas 11:26

It’s transcendent. I like that word. It’s a good word, but it’s a really amazing experience that you don’t really get tired of. You get this thing you go into a birth, as soon as I get a call from a client, I could be half-asleep, and I get a call and I am immediately awake, full of adrenaline ready to get going. When I get to a birth, I’m there with the family, just being a part of that piece of their story. So, they’re going to remember that I was there, you know, their baby might not, but, they’ll remember that I was there and I was able to document that for them.

Chinelle Rojas 12:15

So, that’s really awesome. It also appeals to my interest in birth, well, the medical field in general. I always learn something new at every birth, like something that I didn’t know before or you know, wasn’t fully aware of. So, like I just add a little bit more, a little bit more to my toolbox of random knowledge that maybe would help another birthing family at some point.

Candice Wu 12:46

Um, what are some of those things?

Chinelle Rojas 12:49

This is something that I learned not at a birth but in, like, one of my mom groups, like pregnancy groups. When my daughter was born, we had another mom in the mom group who, when she had her son, he got stuck in the birth canal. So, he had shoulder dystocia and because of that, he ended up having, what is it? Erb’s palsy, which I found very interesting.

Chinelle Rojas 13:22

So, fast forward, less than a year later, I was at a birth and this family, baby got stuck on the way out. It was a very awesome birth, and then things got really crazy, really quickly. They, things were happening so fast that they had no idea what was going on. They just know that all of a sudden, doctors are pushing on her belly and trying to get the baby out as quick as possible. Dad did not get to cut the cord and as soon as they took the baby out, he went straight to a warmer, and they were just confused, like, they didn’t know, “What was happening?” Stuff like that, and being that I kind of paid attention to that other mom’s experience. I was able to kind of reassure them because I went over and I was taking pictures of the baby, they were making sure he was okay and everything was moving good.

Chinelle Rojas 14:21

So, in doing that, I walked back over to the family and I let them know, like, “Hey, this is kind of what’s happening.” You know, as everybody’s attention is on the baby, and her OB’s attention is on making sure that she’s like, okay, after pushing the baby out, you know, getting the placenta out, all that kind of stuff. So, I was just like, you know, I went up to them and I was just going to kind of explaining to them what was happening because nobody at that particular moment was telling them anything.

Chinelle Rojas 14:53

So…

Candice Wu 14:54

Wow, which is very scary, you know, when you don’t have any information…

Chinelle Rojas 14:57

..yeah, so, they will do something they didn’t know what to do or what was happening and I just kind of told him I was like, “Yeah, he got stuck. Right now, they’re just making sure that he can move his arm and it looks like everything’s gonna be fine because he was, you know, raising it just fine and all that kind of stuff.” So, I’m like, I don’t think there’s going to be any lasting effects. After a few minutes, and they confirmed what I had told them already, the baby got handed to mother and everything was fine.

Candice Wu 15:28

Ah, that’s so nice.

Chinelle Rojas 15:30

It was really special to me just because that was the first time ever that an OB walked up to me after everything was all said and done, and she was like, this family’s very lucky to have had you as part of their team. So, thank you, and I was like, “Oh my God.”

Candice Wu 15:47

Oh my gosh, I want to cry hearing this.

Chinelle Rojas 15:53

That was like the first time I ever heard this especially from an OB because you know, like, typically, you don’t expect them to be that welcoming, especially in the case of an emergency situation or stuff like that.

Candice Wu 16:06

Right.

Chinelle Rojas 16:06

So, that was really, really reassuring to hear.

Candice Wu 16:11

And what an essential part of everything you were, not just in documenting, but in seeing and knowing what was going on and to be that grounding presence that supports them. That’s amazing.

Chinelle Rojas 16:27

It was really nice. And things like that similar things have happened, in different births or whatever we’re like something might be happening, and the family could be a first time parent, could be a young parent, young, first-time parent all of the above, who’s just like unsure of what to do or what is happening, and just need somebody to like, explain to them on a, like, basic level. So, what’s going on what their options are and stuff like that. That’s not my job. My job is just to take pictures. If they’re looking to me for answers to questions that they might have, like, you know, when the doctor steps out of the room and stuff like that, then I will happily answer. You know, at the end of the day, my job is to support them and whatever decision that they make, and I feel like you can only make a really good decision if you know the options.

Candice Wu 17:26

Hmm, beautiful. And I don’t know if you know this about me, Chinelle, but I work with a lot of trauma, and sometimes, that’s emotional or relational. Sometimes, that’s getting in a car accident and where someone’s nervous system is shaken up, and sometimes, it’s with birth experiences or whether that the baby or the mother or the father or the partner or whoever. And so, when I say it’s trauma, just an experience that’s overwhelming to the nervous system…

Chinelle Rojas 18:02

Right.

Candice Wu 18:02

…or scary in some way, and when life is coming through there can be moments of fear of death or what will happen, and I can just imagine that you being in the room, too, with your presence, and documenting and capturing the experience that sometimes when you experience overwhelm you don’t see everything or recall it.

Chinelle Rojas 18:29

Oh, for sure.

Candice Wu 18:30

And here you are. Yeah, you have this extra lens, not just your eyes, but the camera lens, and that just seems like it can complete help complete something for the family if they needed that for that tool as well, you know, like, “Wow, I didn’t know that happened,” to experience anything related to what I’m saying.

Chinelle Rojas 18:54

Oh my gosh, like, in my own personal experience, as a birthing person, there are things that you do not remember, while having your baby, like, you could try all your might, you will not remember it. So, I feel like it’s so important to have that somebody there, even if it’s not a professional, although professional would be ideal, have somebody there to document that whole experience because you would be amazed at the things you missed.

Chinelle Rojas 19:30

For instance, on my third child, my daughter, is my last baby. So, I had both my mom and my dad, as well as my husband, at the birth of my daughter. It was very interesting considering my parents are divorced, so, it was like, they’re like brothers, it was actually a really good experience because they were like acting as if they were almost like brother and sister and the dynamic of speaking and…

Candice Wu 20:01

Yeah.

Chinelle Rojas 20:02

…my sister was sick at the time, so I didn’t have her to document that birth, but I did give my dad the camera. Granted like 75% of the images were blown out or just blurry, but some of the stuff he did capture, I was like, “I do not remember that at all.” And one of the images that stood out to me the most was a picture of my mom, on it, she’s on the opposite side of the bed as my dad was standing and my husband, and as soon as my daughter came out the look on her face was very, like, she was an “Oh!” [Child noises in the background] Oh my gosh, I’m sorry. She’s gonna come like during a time when I wasn’t in the middle of a story.

Candice Wu 20:50

Well, is she the one you’re talking about?

Chinelle Rojas 20:52

She is the one.

Candice Wu 20:53

That’s why she came.

Chinelle Rojas 20:54

She is the one.

Candice Wu 20:56

Maybe she felt you.

Chinelle Rojas 20:58

Caught me talking about her.

Candice Wu 21:00

I believe that. I have been working with horses has really shown me that, too, because all I need to do is think something.

Chinelle Rojas 21:11

Mm-hmm.

Candice Wu 21:12

If I’m connected with the horses, and either they’ll respond to it.

Chinelle Rojas 21:16

That’s awesome.

Candice Wu 21:18

Or I can be totally on grounded and they’re like, not paying attention to me, and that’s exactly reflecting what’s going on to me. I wouldn’t doubt that.

Chinelle Rojas 21:27

Maybe I should channel that for my parenting.

Candice Wu 21:30

Yeah. Yeah.

Chinelle Rojas 21:33

Because they can sense your fear.

Candice Wu 21:37

Yes, they can. Well, and if they don’t know it, they’re nervous systems do. Yeah.

Chinelle Rojas 21:44

They know when you don’t know what you’re doing.

Candice Wu 21:46

Right.

Chinelle Rojas 21:51

Yeah.

Candice Wu 21:52

So, you were in the middle of saying when she came out, your mom’s face?

Chinelle Rojas 21:58

Yeah. When my daughter came out, the look on my mom’s face was just, I don’t know, it was indescribable, like, she had a big ol smile on her face tears in her eyes, and she was just like, in awe, you know, and I don’t know that picture is very special to me because here I am pushing my daughter out. My daughter’s emerging, and my mom is there in the frame witnessing it all, and that’s a moment I didn’t know was happening. You know.

Candice Wu 22:31

Yeah.

Chinelle Rojas 22:31

Not been for that picture, I would have never known that was what was going on with my mother. So, like, that’s just one instance. I get all the time from, you know, birthing families, like I didn’t even realize that that was the thing or that I was doing that or that my partner was doing that. I don’t know. It’s just, it’s amazing to be able to like fill in those gaps.

Candice Wu 22:59

Yeah. That sounds incredible, and it’s such an experience that you’d want us, and not in every case, of course, but if it were me, I’d want to see every single bit of the experience, you know, if everyone in the room. Maybe there were things I want to see it myself, but this precious, precious moments like your mom in awe.

Chinelle Rojas 23:28

exactly. I only, like, my only regret with all three of my kids was that I didn’t hire an actual professional. With my first son, I didn’t even know birth photography was a thing. So, I have like zero pictures to remember that experience with him. With my second I had my sister and I was still like, very young in the birth photography world, I guess. So, I told my sister I was like, I do not want any crowd shots, and what do I look at or what do I see when I’m scrolling through the pictures that she took, but crotch shots.

Candice Wu 24:11

Oh.

Chinelle Rojas 24:12

Like, are you serious? And I wasn’t even, like, it wasn’t even crowning, like, that’s what annoying part is like, it’s just literally my vagina all out in the open and swollen because the baby’s coming down, but he’s not crowning. So, it’s not really…

Candice Wu 24:30

It’s not the moment.

Chinelle Rojas 24:32

Like, why are these here? You know, and then when I have my dad and most of the pictures did not come out good, you know, and I would have loved to have also seen what my husband’s face looked like…

Candice Wu 24:46

Yeah.

Chinelle Rojas 24:47

…because I have no idea. I would have loved to be able to see my dad in the pictures because I know he was there, you know, but I don’t know.

Candice Wu 24:57

And this is really, you know, I feel sad that you don’t have those experiences for you, and at the same time, it also sounds like that informs how you’re able to capture for the families, the story of what’s going on, you’re paying attention to each person in the room.

Chinelle Rojas 25:16

Yes, which can be really hard, especially if there are some more people, it can be really hard to, you know, focus on everyone. So, I always ask my clients, like, they get a questionnaire, a little in-take questionnaire, like, what moments are most important to you? Most people say, “I want a good mix of everything,” but I’m like, you know, at the same time, why are you more interested in seeing the emotions of people’s faces? Do you want the moment of birth? Or would you prefer, you know, just the feel of the room?

Candice Wu 25:55

Mm-hmm.

Chinelle Rojas 25:56

So, that helps to dictate what I capture as well, but overall, I think I’m getting like, it’s still a little bit of a learning curve to try to be able to get everybody.

Candice Wu 26:10

Yeah, so I can imagine that would be hard.

Chinelle Rojas 26:13

Yeah, but I do my best at worse, I get the immediate feelings of like, like right after birth. So, and all the moments leading up to it.

Candice Wu 26:27

Wow. So, I want to shift gears a little bit. I’m really interested in your activism work with this. Something that I saw on your website is that you’re dedicated to the representation of families of color, in birth, and spreading awareness of birth options to women of color, and what you said was “A world where our little pebble of documenting births can make waves on the mortality rate of mothers across the country or the world.” How amazing would that be?

Chinelle Rojas 27:05

Yes, yes. That would be amazing.

Candice Wu 27:11

Can you talk about how you see this and what it is that you see as part of what you’re doing here, or as an outcome of what you’re doing?

Chinelle Rojas 27:19

I feel like being as, being a birth photographer, we have a very unique role in the birth space, and that says a documenter. I feel like, I don’t know, especially in the age of like social media and stuff like that, people are influenced by what they see. Their choices are skewed by what they’re seeing other people doing. So, my thought process is that if we, as people of color, are able to see more people birthing in, you know, “non-traditional ways”, which, like, in reality, they are actually the most traditional ways.

Candice Wu 28:03

Yeah, like, probably their most indigenous ways.

Chinelle Rojas 28:08

Exactly. Outside of a hospital, not using epidurals, not like, you know, choosing to have a C section, then maybe those images that we see will encourage us to at least look into other options besides what we consider the norm, which would be in a hospital without the drugs, you know, which I think in seeing those images, then we have a chance to curb the mortality rate. So, it is almost common knowledge, now. At least in the birth world, I feel that Black Americans, I don’t like to say African Americans because not all black Americans are African Americans. So, Black Americans are dying at three to four times the rate of every other racial demographic in the United States during pregnancy postpartum, and birth, which is outrageous.

Candice Wu 29:25

It’s outrageous.

Chinelle Rojas 29:26

And most of these, yes, most of these deaths are happening in the hospital setting where you think you’d be the safest. So, that’s why I feel like when we see pictures of women who look like us birthing in places outside of a hospital, maybe seeing that triggering, the thought that “Hey, maybe I can do that, too.” Then you’d be more likely to look into the other options that are available to you, possibly pursue those options and ultimately, you could be saving your own life by choosing to go a different route.

Chinelle Rojas 30:03

So, that’s what I mean by like the little pebble, just an image, and of course it takes those of us taking the images and those of us in the images to be willing to share those images.

Candice Wu 30:17

Yeah.

Chinelle Rojas 30:17

You know, not everybody’s comfortable with sharing this story, okay. It shouldn’t be anyone person’s job to spread awareness to the world, but in sharing, like or being willing to share if it was a to really save someone’s life. So, that’s really the ultimate…

Candice Wu 30:37

Yeah.

Chinelle Rojas 30:38

..goal.

Candice Wu 30:39

Yeah. It’s a really beautiful reminder overall of the power of sharing in one image, one pebble, but specifically for saving, saving lives and Black lives, especially given the statistics that you shared and I was just curious if you had a sense of why that is that Black Americans are dying at a rate of three to four times more.

Chinelle Rojas 31:10

Yes, it is multifaceted. It is the health care system. There’s a lot of unspoken racial bias when it comes to the healthcare system, like maybe in terms of like pain management and stuff like that. It’s often noted that Black Americans have a higher pain tolerance. So, maybe when they complain of pain, it’s brushed off, you know, as, “Oh, it’s probably nothing or whatever they can handle it.” And in turn that leads to, it’s like we’re not being listened to. So, we’re not getting the care that we need. So, it just trickles down and in some cases, it causes that. That’s one.

Candice Wu 32:04

Yeah.

Chinelle Rojas 32:05

One of the biggest things like the whole systemic racism.

Candice Wu 32:09

Yeah.

Chinelle Rojas 32:09

And it’s happening.

Candice Wu 32:10

Right.

Chinelle Rojas 32:12

But also, I cannot in good conscience put it all on the medical field. I haven’t gotten backlash for saying this before, too, but I believe that we have a role to play in the crisis as well. I mean, I feel like we need to be interested in stepping outside of our comfort zone, you know, and taking the necessary steps to take control of our health and not rely solely on what a doctor says, just because they’re a doctor. You know what I mean?

Candice Wu 32:54

Absolutely.

Chinelle Rojas 32:56

So, yeah, we have the power to save our own lives, but we get complacent as well.

Candice Wu 33:02

Mmm-hmm. And you have this provocative and stimulating series, Unto Us, a Slave is Born. It’s one of the titles they think.

Chinelle Rojas 33:17

Yes.

Candice Wu 33:17

Yeah.

Chinelle Rojas 33:20

I just added a third part of that.

Candice Wu 33:24

I saw that just before the interview today, so…

Chinelle Rojas 33:28

Yes.

Candice Wu 33:29

….can you speak to this series for those who haven’t seen it and for those who have.

Chinelle Rojas 33:35

Okay, so, the series stemmed from me. Well, last year, I started to shift in my business, I decided to stop being so quiet about the things that bother me, the things that I see and just be more vocal about my feelings, and actually, allow it to trickle into my business. Doing so, changed my logo, all that kind of stuff, to be more representative of who I am as a person. And while I was doing all that, I was like, “Oh my gosh, I wonder what kind of images that I could find on Google about like, I want to see what it looked like for, like our ancestors, slaves in America to give birth,” like a wondered really deeply what that might have looked like. I found minor articles, but like, the only real image I kept popping up on Google Images was that image of, oh my gosh, what’s his name? James Marion Simmons, and the slave woman he was experimenting on, on a table. The only image that I could really find just readily accessible on Google, you know.

Candice Wu 35:01

Hmm. Wow.

Chinelle Rojas 35:02

This is crap. What is this?

Candice Wu 35:04

There’s no documentation, practically.

Chinelle Rojas 35:06

Like where, but nothing that you could find it easily. Yeah, I mean, I’ve heard people say that they like in college, they were shown the images like X, Y, and Z that depicted similar things but it’s like, where are these images for the rest of us to see? Because it really wasn’t easy for me to find on the internet. Google failed me. So, I decided to create what I imagined it would look like, based on the little bit of reading material I was able to find.

Chinelle Rojas 35:30

So, the first image set in The Unto Us a Slave is Born series just depicted a woman in a super dingy place, like, not very clean, sterile type environment and have a baby with a midwife and having a baby outside. So, that was the first one. The second one was called The Sins of Their Fathers, so it depicted a woman breastfeeding a mixed baby, the baby was hers, but also her slave masters, while also tending to a fellow slave who was laboring, and then my latest set is called Labor in Labor. So, it’s actually like a trigger a little bit more of a trigger for people probably because it depicts a slave working in the field, going into labor and realizing that she is miscarrying. So, yeah, each set has like a little write up on it and all that kind of stuff and just kind of let people know where my head was at while shooting those images.

Candice Wu 37:13

Yeah, I mean, it’s so powerful in the way you are going right into what you could dream up. That’s not the right word, because this is definitely not dreaming, but what you could imagine as a possible reality, what Black people faced in the birthing process and not being afraid of what that could look like.

Chinelle Rojas 37:46

Exactly. And what was crazy as this last set, I had been, it had been in my mind since I shot the part two.

Candice Wu 37:57

Yeah.

Chinelle Rojas 37:57

So, for the last nine months, this last image shot had been in my mind, and I was so glad to finally like, get it out of my head and like, in tangible form for everybody else to see what was in my mind and what I was thinking about.

Candice Wu 38:19

Yeah. Wow, and I don’t know if this has anything to do with your process at all, but what happened to me, in me as you were just saying that was a feeling of the ancestors, and the sense set when there’s been such devastation or pain or even wonderment, any profound experience like we want it to be seen and acknowledged, and I just had this feeling sense of the idea that maybe ancestors are asking for this to be seen.

Chinelle Rojas 39:00

I feel like it, too, I feel like their stories deserve to be told, you know, and it’s something that is not seen or talked about enough. And, you know, I mean, in recent times, it has been talked about a lot. However, like, we have nothing to like, put pictures to words, you know, to describe what we’re thinking, what we’re feeling what our ancestors have had to experience. I feel like that’s super important to kind of put a face to the stories, even if it’s not an actual, you know, slave. It is to pay homage to those who basically had to go through the ultimate trial. So interesting topic.

Candice Wu 40:05

Yeah.

Chinelle Rojas 40:06

And I’m like, I like to provoke thought, especially with my project, when it comes to those when it comes to myself fortress, all that kind of stuff like I like to provoke thought if possible, and I really hope that that series does that.

Candice Wu 40:28

It definitely provokes thought and me. For me, it was just really thinking about, as I said, ancestors and what they want to be seen, and to be honored, but also what birthing means and how much it’s been silenced. In many spaces, especially in spaces where people have been oppressed or enslaved, and it’s just this missing piece, as you said in your Google search. Now, maybe there’s some stuff out there, but it’s not on Google, and that really says something. And then it asked of me to feel into, “What about my ancestry? What about my experiences with that?” And really just open the door? I didn’t really, it didn’t open up new things at the moment, but just wondering where have been, there been times where women have experienced really hard experience around their birthing or maybe they had to do it in secret, but yeah, I’m curious what other people are thinking.

Chinelle Rojas 41:49

That’s very interesting.

Candice Wu 41:52

Do you want to talk about your ancestry?

Chinelle Rojas 41:56

What is funny is that I am not American, which is probably why I also take offense to when people say African American, like they assume that every black person in America is just African American.

Candice Wu 42:15

Yeah. And you know, I’ve done that, but yeah, appreciate you talking about it, too.

Chinelle Rojas 42:23

Yeah, we’re not, we are all over, you know, we’re from all over.

Candice Wu 42:29

Humm.

Chinelle Rojas 42:30

I am originally from Trinidad. I grew up here in the States, in Tampa, Florida. Thanks to my dad, he joined the army here in the United States. So, I had the privilege of “growing up here,” that’s not to say that my ancestors were not slaves, because all across the Caribbean, that’s where a lot of the slaves were being dropped off. So, I actually have African ancestry as well as Indian ancestry. Indians were brought to my country, Trinidad as indentured servants and Africans were brought as slaves. So, I actually am mixed. Well, I’m a proud Trinidadian who feels like, I can be a voice or those who look like me here in the States.

Candice Wu 43:37

Thank goodness. Yeah.

Chinelle Rojas 43:41

Like, I don’t know if that makes me lose some credibility, but it doesn’t matter to me, because I know, I’ve been here, I didn’t just come here. You know what I mean? I’ve been here, I’m almost 30. So, I’ve been here, 26 years of my life.

Candice Wu 44:04

That’s a significant amount of time.

Chinelle Rojas 44:07

I’m practically American.

Candice Wu 44:09

But you know, even just you saying that… it was like, no like, hell no. When you said, does that make me lose credibility? It’s like you are you, but I do understand the reality of how people can perceive that and what that brings and

Chinelle Rojas 44:29

Right.

Candice Wu 44:30

But, hmm.

Chinelle Rojas 44:32

I do like to throw it out there sometimes like: “Fun fact, I’m not from here”.

Candice Wu 44:36

Yeah.

Chinelle Rojas 44:37

And I am actually glad that I’m not from.

Candice Wu 44:45

Yeah, I think a lot of people might be jealous,

Chinelle Rojas 44:49

Great, I am not an American. So, my kids are but I’m not. But that’s another reason we are… another fun fact: we are actually moving our family back to Trinidad.

Candice Wu 45:05

Oh, my goodness. Wow.

Chinelle Rojas 45:08

Yes.

Candice Wu 45:08

What?

Chinelle Rojas 45:09

At the end of this year.

Candice Wu 45:10

Wow.

Chinelle Rojas 45:12

And a lot of that is so that our children who are half Trinidadian, my husband, he’s Honduran and Black American. So, we’re trying to give our kids and, like an experience of living in another country, and another culture that they are actually associated with, to experience things outside of the US bubble. We were just there for a month, and what was interesting, with my kids they didn’t want to come back home. Like they didn’t want to come back to the States.

Candice Wu 45:49

Wow. That’s a good thing.

Chinelle Rojas 45:51

Interesting for a, right, and they are four, seven and nine and they didn’t want to come back.

Candice Wu 45:58

Wow.

Chinelle Rojas 46:00

But something that we noticed down there and it like, I don’t know, it solidified me wanting to go down and stay down there, even more, was that, while we were visiting, they have a holiday and it’s called emancipation day. That’s something that they don’t have here in the States. Emancipation day is literally a national holiday in Trinidad where they celebrate the freedom of slavery, like from slavery, I mean. So, they have all this African, basically a beautiful African type festival, parades in the streets, people calling on the ancestor. This is like a beautiful and amazing, amazing experience, and I was so glad that I got to experience it down there, and I was like, why do we not have this in the States, you know, and it’s also super different to be in a country where when you look around 98% of the people look like you.

Candice Wu 47:07

Yeah, that makes a huge difference.

Chinelle Rojas 47:11

Yeah, versus the other way around, where that’s not how we feel where we are. So, I don’t know, it’s just a beautiful, beautiful experience, and I’m so glad that we personally have that chance and the opportunity to be able to, you know, allow our children to experience that.

Candice Wu 47:32

That’s amazing. I’m so excited for all of you.

Chinelle Rojas 47:36

Thanks, but I will be back in the states often, so like.

Candice Wu 47:40

Are you coming back to do birthing sessions? Or do you, what’s your plan?

Chinelle Rojas 47:46

My plan is, at least for now to kind of build my business because I have made a name for myself here in the Tampa Bay area. As a birth photographer, I’m actually building a little bit of a team, and document the birth on my behalf here while we are living abroad, edit and do all that other stuff and still be part of the client experience just minus the shooting. I do plan on coming up here almost a yearly, at least, probably for a couple of months and probably while I’m up here, I will take clients and stuff like that, too. So, it’s gonna be great.

Candice Wu 48:31

Yeah, that’s a really great way expand, too.

Chinelle Rojas 48:35

Yes, but in the meantime, I’m actually going to be hosting retreats for birth photographers as well, and I’m bringing people to my home country and allowing them to experience Trinidad and Tobago, and also have a chance to learn from other birth photographers so their birth workers and just kind of build themselves up, learn about self-care and you know, enjoy, like, the Caribbean, for a few days.

Candice Wu 49:06

Yes. So cool. When is that going to be?

Chinelle Rojas 49:10

So, my first one is in May 2020. I’m already planning for May 2021.

Candice Wu 49:16

Wow.

Chinelle Rojas 49:18

So, it’s gonna be amazing. A super intimate experience. Lots of fun, all-inclusive, like, it’s gonna be great. So great. I can’t explain how excited I am. I just want May to be here so I can make this happen.

Candice Wu 49:36

If I add on more things to my career list or interest, and to birth photography, which is really interesting to me, I will come and join you.

Chinelle Rojas 49:52

For sure. It’s called “Birth at the Beach” because I’m quirky and I like names like that so…

Candice Wu 50:01

Perfect.

Chinelle Rojas 50:03

The Birth at the Beach Retreat. So…

Candice Wu 50:06

Great. Yeah, check it out there if you’re listening. And also you have the Melanatedbirth.com. Can you tell us about that?

Chinelle Rojas 50:15

I do. And I’m actually working on phasing out the actual website just because, you know, I feel like I could almost be more beneficial to people on social media, because it’s about the photos, really.

Candice Wu 50:32

Oh, yeah.

Chinelle Rojas 50:33

But the melon at birth, it was a way for people to be able to find other like birth photographers and stuff like that, who can provide the service that they need, then quite take off the way I would have liked. It was kind of like, this kind of stagnant for a while. So, I’m shifting focus, shifting gears and kind of maybe focusing more on the social media aspect of it as that’s where most of the people find out about The Melanated Birth. So, and The Melanated Birth is basically just a place where you can go to so you can find it on Instagram and Facebook, where if you want to see a plethora of images and videos of people of color giving birth, that’s where you want to go, because that’s all we share.

Candice Wu 51:25

Right.

Chinelle Rojas 51:26

Just to kind of, you know, piggyback off of what I said earlier: we are trying to save lives.

Candice Wu 51:34

Yes.

Chinelle Rojas 51:34

The best way to do that is by showing that birth in different settings is possible for everyone.

Candice Wu 51:45

That’s so great. I’m so glad you exist and are doing this. And I…

Chinelle Rojas 51:51

Same to you.

Candice Wu 51:52

Thank you. I just want to say that your photographs just feel so intimate and raw, and tender and powerful at the same time. And you have mentioned capturing images of women and families and color in their goddess and between worlds with their babies. They just love that. So, I wanted to end with that and just hear your thoughts on what it is to be between worlds.

Chinelle Rojas 52:24

Well.

Candice Wu 52:30

It’s a hard one

Chinelle Rojas 52:31

Try to figure out the best way to word that one.

Candice Wu 52:33

Uh-huh.

Chinelle Rojas 52:35

Because like, how do you even describe that?

Candice Wu 52:37

Exactly. I don’t even know.

Chinelle Rojas 52:41

It’s so hard to describe, like…

Candice Wu 52:42

Maybe let’s create pictures.

Chinelle Rojas 52:45

You could just see it, I think, because when you think about it, when a child is being born there between worlds, but what you don’t also think about is while that child is being born, so is the parent.

Candice Wu 53:00

Yeah.

Chinelle Rojas 53:00

You know.

Candice Wu 53:01

Like the parents are being born.

Chinelle Rojas 53:03

Like, inherit, exactly. Like we forget that notion. Women are pregnant or you know, people, in general, they’re pregnant for nine months-ish give or take, and they’re housing this baby, they’re housing this baby, and then they have this baby and then no longer are they the center of attention.

Candice Wu 53:28

Mm-hmm.

Chinelle Rojas 53:29

You know, like that whole dynamic changes, and it’s a… I don’t know like it’s mind blown. Like…

Candice Wu 53:38

Yeah.

Chinelle Rojas 53:41

…like how do you really describe like being in between? Like I don’t, it’s hard. It’s hard because I’m even trying to think back because of my own experiences of pushing babies out. And that moment from the last few pushes, like they are a blur. Like, you go from pushing to next, you know, you have this baby in your hand and like everything in between your life, what happened? My husband, actually, he likes to describe witnessing birth as being an out-of-body experience, for him, you know, like, I don’t like it. I don’t like not feeling in control of whatever’s going to happen.

Candice Wu 54:31

It’s such a vulnerable moment, time, period. Just many moments of that sounds like.

Chinelle Rojas 54:39

Exactly. Sorry, I couldn’t answer that way, stronger. I guess it’s so hard that one, that question.

Candice Wu 54:47

No, it’s perfect, because how can you really describe that? And as you said, you just have to look at the image and you feel it, you know.

Chinelle Rojas 54:57

Look at the picture or you just were there. You have to have, the best way for you to understand the feeling is to get a chance to witness it or physically go through it, yourself, and even then, it’s hard to describe.

Candice Wu 55:15

Yeah.

Chinelle Rojas 55:18

Because there’s such a fine line between birth and death — it’s so crazy. I feel like every time I’m at a birth, I just hear somebody stomping around shoes and shoes that don’t fit them, but every time I’m at of birth, and a baby comes out, I somehow wonder who in that moment has passed away?

Candice Wu 55:52

Oh. Yeah.

Chinelle Rojas 55:55

Like at this very same time as this life is coming into the world, somebody is no longer breathing, and then I always think — well wonder — how does that all work? You know, you get all deep and philosophical and stuff but you don’t really have time because you got a job to do, so…

Candice Wu 56:12

It happens in this flash of a moment and then you’re on the next photograph.

Chinelle Rojas 56:17

So basically, basically.

Candice Wu 56:21

Wow, well, I think that really brings it to the forefront like the intensity of the feeling of between worlds is the fine line between life and death, as you said. Thank you so much, Chinelle, is there anything else you want to share today?

Chinelle Rojas 56:41

Ahm, I don’t think so. I don’t think so. I think we covered a lot.

Candice Wu 56:48

Yeah.

Chinelle Rojas 56:48

Actually, which is amazing.

Candice Wu 56:50

It is.

Chinelle Rojas 56:52

So many things. I’m doing so many things. There are so many things.

Candice Wu 56:56

Yeah, we didn’t even talk about their video work or anything like that.

Chinelle Rojas 57:01

We did. I do all the things.

Candice Wu 57:03

You do all the things!

Chinelle Rojas 57:03

Oh, my God!

Candice Wu 57:07

What were you about to say? Before I interrupted it.

Chinelle Rojas 57:10

Yeah, I’m just really just, I’m just a go-getter just like” I like to say in my bio, I’m a go-getter. I go get groceries, go get things for my kids, but I’m a creative at heart, so, I’m always like trying to channel that into something.

Candice Wu 57:36

Yeah

Chinelle Rojas 57:37

So, whether that be working on logos for others, documenting births or you know, just helping other people with stuff, just love it.

Candice Wu 57:49

That’s awesome.

Chinelle Rojas 57:50

So glad to have gotten to talk to you and hear what you’re about and stuff like that, too, like this really awesome.

Candice Wu 57:59

Thank you.

Chinelle Rojas 58:00

I think it’s so interesting, the whole dynamic of ancestral trauma, like any think about that stuff, too, and I’ve heard this a few times, too, how that explains a lot of why the black community is perceived the way that they are, and it’s has a lot to do with the trauma that wasn’t lifted on the community during the slavery era. That’s not something that just disappears.

Candice Wu 58:18

Yeah.

Chinelle Rojas 58:38

That’s not just something that you could just forget and move on from when it’s kind of ingrained in your DNA.

Candice Wu 58:48

Right, and it’s not quite in enough spaces or in the right spaces, maybe, hasn’t gotten it’s due acknowledgment, you know, in a personal way, as well as a collective way and so, it just begs to be seen through the next person and generation through us.

Chinelle Rojas 59:15

Yeah, exactly. It’s our job to give them their stories, voices.

Candice Wu 59:22

Yeah. Thank you so much to know. Um, can you just say for everyone listening where to find you besides The Melanated Birth on Instagram, believe you’re at Tampa Birth Photographer, is that right?

Chinelle Rojas 59:37

I am, I’m @theblk.creative, that’s my photography business. I’m also @HelloChinelle, that’s my personal, you’ll see more pictures of me and my kids, there. Occasionally, you might see my husband. And what else do I have? I have so many things. Oh, my gosh. I wouldn’t even list them all…

Candice Wu 1:00:13

Well, we’ll put it all on the website if you want. You covered a lot of bases, you know?

Chinelle Rojas 1:00:19

Yes.

Candice Wu 1:00:20

Yeah.

Candice Wu 1:00:22

But yeah, if you want, we’ll put them all at the link. That’ll be at CandiceWu.com/Chinelle, and that’s your name, and so, if you’re out there and listening, you can just tune into the, jump onto the website and click into all of the spaces you’re at. Thank you so much. This was so fun.

Chinelle Rojas 1:00:43

Same. Thanks for having me. I really appreciate it.

Candice Wu 1:00:47

You’re so welcome.

Candice Wu 1:00:51

Thank you so much for joining us today and thank you so much Chinelle. It was lovely to experience you and the behind the scenes of you talking about what it is that goes into your photography work, and how you think about it. It’s really inspiring to have people like Chinelle who are doing something with what they believe and letting that be congruent in their profession, in their life, in all the ways. It really brings us the question of congruency in our lives. Are the things that we’re doing in our profession, in our spaces, in who we interact with, are they can grow and with what it is that we believe? And what we know is really important in this life.

Candice Wu 1:01:48

So, check out her work at all of the social media links that Chinelle has offered. They’re all linked in the show notes, and thank you so much for now for joining us. Before you go, I’d like to invite you to join the Embody Community through the newsletter that I put out every two to three weeks that offers self-love notes, podcast updates, sometimes some book giveaways of guests to the podcast as well as workshops, retreats and immersions, and my travel and inside scoop of my world. You can find that at CandiceWu.com/embody.

Candice Wu 1:02:28

See you all next time on the Embody Podcast.

Candice Wu 0:00

A new Earth began to form beneath our feet, volcanic ashes filled the air, sulfuric particles embedded themselves into our hair, onto our skin and tongues. My mouth was coated in ashes, my lungs were processing the particles alongside the grief of so many things passing, burning too quickly for my heart to comprehend. I found these notes and postings I’d written during the first month of the eruption. A reading from The Luminary Journey: Lessons from a Volcano in Creating a Healing Center and Becoming the Leader You Were Born to Be by Darshan Mendoza, who’s our special guest today on the Embody Podcast.

Candice Wu 0:42

She says, once you accept the visions and mission arising from within you, dear luminary, if you haven’t already experienced the quickening, your life will accelerate beyond your imagination. It will not kill you, although parts of the journey will entail many deaths of old identities and belief systems, it will awaken you.

Candice Wu 1:08

Hello and welcome. You’re listening to the Embody Podcast, a show about remembering and embodying your true nature, inner wisdom, Embodied Healing and self-love.

Candice Wu 1:22

My name is Candice Wu and I’m a holistic healing facilitator, intuitive coach, and artist sharing my personal journey of vulnerability, offering meditations and guided healing support, and having co-creative conversations with healers and wellness practitioners from all over the world.

Candice Wu 1:44

This episode is sponsored by listeners like you who support the podcast, specifically today I want to speak about the personal meditations that I offer. The personal meditations are designed intuitively just for you based on a couple of words that you offer me or a sentence of what you desire in your life or are having struggles with or challenges with, or want to grow into, and I create a 10 to 20 minutes healing experience or meditation for you to practice on your own. And send that to you as an audio file that you can download and listen to that is personal just to you.

Candice Wu 2:25

And that personal meditation can be received with a donation contribution of your choice or the suggested amount that’s found on my website, and all that money goes to support the production of the podcast, behind the scenes, and all the time, energy and love that is put into it by me and those who support the editing process and publishing process. You can find all that information at CandiceWu.com/support.

Candice Wu 2:53

Previously, all of that support was on a Patreon page, and in this next month, all of that going to be shifting over to my website so that more of your dollars and cents can go towards direct contribution to the podcast and other offerings that he put out there. Thank you so much for your consideration, and for those of you who already contribute and donate, and for all of the loving feedback that I receive about the podcast, questions that I get, and other comments and connections. I’m so grateful.

Candice Wu 3:32

And another note before we jump into the podcast with Darshan today is that the Embody Podcast now has transcribed episodes. Almost all of the episodes are now transcribed and they’re on the website. So each of the links that you connect with, for example, this one at CandiceWu.com/darshan or CandiceWu.com/podcast for all the podcasts that are listed. The transcripts are right below where you will listen to that episode.

Candice Wu 4:04

For those of you who’d rather read the episode, or want to find something within the episode that you saw that you wanted to reconnect with, find the transcription, the experientials are also going to be transcribed. But those have not been done yet and they’re going to be started from the last episode in this last couple of weeks going backward.

Candice Wu 4:29

So before long, those will also be set up as blog posts where you can access that and tune into those experientials by reading the words and instructions. So I hope you enjoy that and find that helpful and also a way that you can digest whatever is really here for you to digest and peacefully and lovingly release the rest.

Candice Wu 4:56

So now let’s jump into the episode today with Darshan. I’m really happy to have her here on the podcast today.

Candice Wu 5:02

I began to just notice Darshan’s work on Facebook and notice that we both had Family Constellations in common. And when I realized that she lived in Hawaii and wrote a book about lessons and experience around the volcano erupting in 2018, I just, I was so interested and love what she’s doing with her retreat center, which she is shifting and closing this chapter and stepping into something new as we speak. But I’m thrilled to have her here today on the podcast, talking about the lessons that she received from the volcano, being in the volcano itself, talking about her spiritual name and the names that we are given and what they mean, as well as connecting with the Hopi saying that we are the ones we’ve been hoping for.

Candice Wu 5:59

Darshan is a spiritual director of Akuahā, a healing retreat in Volcano, Hawaii, and she curates personalized journeys of healing transformation, and visionary incubation for her guests and clients for planetary transformation.

Candice Wu 6:15

She recently launched The Luminary Journey, a New moon to New Moon program and residency where luminaries birth their visions in a holistic and embodied way into the world.

Candice Wu 6:26

Darshan was born in Manila, Philippines and moved to Chicago with her family at the age of seven, and graduated with a political science and minors in English and philosophy degree. She explored the world of law as a student at John Marshall Law school and creative writing at Columbia College, Chicago, and has worked as a paralegal journalist and editor before her spontaneous Kundalini awakening, which led her onto a healers path. And soon enough, the ancestors of Hawaii called her to the Big Island where she began and accelerated decade-long Mystery School, where she learned from wisdom keepers from the Philippines, Hawaii, India, Tibet, the Blackfoot and Navajo nations, Burkina Faso, Nigeria, Mexico, Japan, China, New Zealand, the bioenergetics quantum field, and the Kundalini Yoga and meditation lineage. So the simplest way to describe Darshan is that of a visionary, healer, and teacher.

Candice Wu 7:30

She’s committed to anchoring in heaven on earth by creating healing centers, which are visionary incubation labs, and schools all over the world, supporting luminaries and discovering their genius and sharing it with the world.

Candice Wu 7:44

As a gift to all the listeners today, she’s offering the advanced reader copy of her book, Luminary Journey, which you heard an excerpt from at the beginning of the episode. It’s a beautiful book and it’s lovely for anybody who is experiencing themselves in a new way and wants to heal or wants to set forth on a path of a vision that they have. Whether you call yourself a luminary or not, you might be one. And you can find all that at CandiceWu.com/darshan.

Candice Wu 8:18

Just a heads up at the very end of the episode on my side of the conversation, things start to sound a little bit chaotic or with interference, maybe it was the amazing energy that was feeding through and just making my technology go crazy, because that sometimes happens when I’m online with people. But also maybe just some stuff was popping up on my computer or it was overheating. So I apologize for the interference on my side of the conversation and I hope you enjoy the conversation nonetheless. So let’s jump into this episode with Darshan.

Candice Wu 9:00

It’s really wonderful to have you here today, Darshan. You’re here all the way connecting with me from Hawaii.

Darshan Mendoza 9:06

Yes. Hi. I’m so honored to be here. Really excited for this conversation.

Candice Wu 9:13

Oh, it’s fabulous. It’s coming at such a wonderful time because you just released your book. Yes, congratulations!

Darshan Mendoza 9:21

Thank you! It’s really surreal. And as I was saying, in our, just private conversation that this is going to be like the first time I’m actually talking about it. So it’s going to be grounding and magical and I’m just really honored and grateful.

Candice Wu 9:39

I’m just so grateful that you are here with me and we get to share what comes with this conversation. And I thought about you know, how do I start this conversation and what I read in your book was about your name, Darshan. Yes, and it means vision of the Divine. And I know that word through Vedic studies, Ayurveda, Yoga, Sanskrit. And I’ve always loved that word. It’s also, my Yoga teacher created a center called the Darshan Center, that’s the first time I’d heard of it.

Darshan Mendoza 10:22

Yeah.

Candice Wu 10:23

Right. So when I saw you on Facebook and began learning about your work, and now that I’ve written, not written, maybe that’s a Freudian slip.

Darshan Mendoza 10:34

I think you are going to be writing a book.

Candice Wu 10:38

I kind of wish I have written your book, but —

Darshan Mendoza 10:40

Now it’s recorded —

Candice Wu 10:41

But I only wish I have written my book —

Darshan Mendoza 10:43

You said it. It is now in the works.

Candice Wu 10:50

Now that I’ve read your book, vision of the Divine is exactly how I would describe you and the work you’re doing.

Darshan Mendoza 10:59

Yeah, in hindsight, now, when I think about the last, you know, 12, 13 years since I received the name, and started using it, I realized that name has actually called me forward, like my true purpose and my gift forward, that I didn’t know was my gift 13 years ago, you know?

Candice Wu 11:26

Yeah.

Darshan Mendoza 11:27

And in the book, I do talk about the story of how I decided to take that name. And this amazing, super magical couple, just showing up at a store that I was managing and basically telling me that I had it backward, because I thought, “Oh, my gosh, it’s such a sacred name. And there’s so much responsibility in that and that’s too big for me, and there’s no way I can take it.”

Darshan Mendoza 11:54

And so I was vibing that belief for a few weeks, and then they just walked in, you know, we didn’t know each other up until that day and she asked me what my name was. And I said, Beverly, which was my birth name, and she just looked at me with this super clarity, and almost like amusement in her heart, and said, “Oh, I’m sorry, but that’s not your name.” You know, and for some stranger, right to say that, I, you know, I was just really sort of shocked in that moment. But I felt —

Candice Wu 12:31

Wow!

Darshan Mendoza 12:32

— the truth of what she was saying, in my heart, my body, I was super awake, like, super aware, and I’m connected to her words. And then she just explained, you know, it’s really about taking the name and letting the name, we set our vibration and call us forward, and that was it. It was such a simple thing she was saying. She wasn’t trying to convince me of anything. She was just sharing her truth. And it was such a message for me. You know, and soon after that, probably a week or two, I took the name. And I started seeing it like, yeah, this is my name and explaining it.

Darshan Mendoza 13:13

And, you know, fast forward to now, I’m realizing one of the gifts that really surface from that is that when I meet people and listen to people’s stories, I really hear and can clearly see the genius and people, you know, what their gifts are. And so, that’s really seeing the divine in people.

Candice Wu 13:42

Yeah.

Darshan Mendoza 13:43

You know, so I get it. I’m like, “Oh, my God, I’m so glad. I’m so glad I ran into that couple. I’m so glad I was open enough and ready enough to receive that divine message and I listened.” You know, and yeah, such a gift. I’m so grateful for that name.

Candice Wu 14:04

She really saw you that day.

Darshan Mendoza 14:07

Because Beverly, you know what Beverly means? Have you ever heard about this?

Candice Wu 14:13

No, what does it mean?

Darshan Mendoza 14:13

So Beverly means hardworking beaver in a dam.

Darshan Mendoza 14:19

Yes!

Candice Wu 14:19

Wow!

Darshan Mendoza 14:21

I think about it, like, “Yeah, I totally hustled.”

Darshan Mendoza 14:25

I hustled. I was a hard worker, I still am. You know, but that doesn’t completely define, I think where I am evolving to as a human, you know, so, I mean, I’ll take it, it’s part of me.

Candice Wu 14:38

Yeah.

Darshan Mendoza 14:39

Right. I still vibe it. My dad’s the one who chose it and I honor him for choosing it. But it’s like there’s something more that I’m evolving into. You know?

Candice Wu 14:48

I can see that.

Darshan Mendoza 14:49

Yeah.

Candice Wu 14:50

Wow.

Darshan Mendoza 14:52

From beaver to, yeah, divine sight, it’s awesome. I’ll take it.

Candice Wu 14:56

Oh my gosh, right. That’s definitely an expansion.

Candice Wu 15:03

But I love that you owned it.

Darshan Mendoza 15:05

Yeah.

Candice Wu 15:05

At some point.

Darshan Mendoza 15:06

Yeah.

Candice Wu 15:07

And started feeling it shift you and you shift it in a sense, that is just you’re stepping into this part of you that was already coming alive.

Darshan Mendoza 15:17

Yeah. I mean, I believe that time and spaces, a simultaneous event. So sort of everything is happening simultaneously. And it just really depends on what frequency we’re tapping into. So that’s, you know, that also includes our names, right. So different parts of our lifetime, there’s certain names that we really connect to or words that even describe us that we use to describe ourselves. Right. Sometimes we have nicknames, and like, our real names, and professional names, and spiritual names, and all kinds of things that we really connect to. And then there are also the words that we use to describe who we are. Words are powerful to me, I feel like they carry such magic, you know, so it’s important to know, and to be conscious and mindful about what words and syllables and sounds we are connecting to and using frequently. You know, to describe who we are.

Candice Wu 16:20

That makes sense.

Darshan Mendoza 16:21

Yeah.

Candice Wu 16:21

Yeah, and that vibration you’re speaking to, it’s not just, well, it’s magical. Right? What you’re saying is there’s a magic to the sound, the words, there’s a magic to what we call ourselves and who we say we are and at the same time, magic.

Candice Wu 16:45

Maybe there’s a quality, let me know what you think. Maybe there’s a quality of unknown or mystery there and at the same time, we also know that sound has vibration itself, like, vibration isn’t, you know, magical isn’t something we can’t grasp in a grounded way.

Darshan Mendoza 17:04

Yeah. It’s very tangible.

Darshan Mendoza 17:07

Yeah, thank you for noting that. I do love to talk about names because my nickname was Jingay, which was completely made up. It was like a sound that I must have left out when I was a child, and my grandfather made that up, and then it became my name that everyone called me, you know, so even though I still get called all of these different names, just depending on where I am and who I’m with. So that’s always really fun too.

Candice Wu 17:41

That is. Yeah.

Candice Wu 17:43

I have that experience too, being Chinese American.

Darshan Mendoza 17:48

What were your names?

Candice Wu 17:50

My, like when I was younger, I was called Candy.

Darshan Mendoza 17:55

Oh, wow! Candy.

Candice Wu 17:57

Yeah. I know. And it came through because my mom wanted, she was called that at some point for no reason other than she liked it.

Darshan Mendoza 18:05

Oh, really?

Candice Wu 18:06

And yeah, and her name doesn't have anything, her name is Yuk Leung.

Darshan Mendoza 18:11

Oh, okay.

Candice Wu 18:11

And then sometimes she calls herself Bo. So it has nothing to do with her name, really.

Candice Wu 18:17

And then that name, that nickname crept its way into just a few people into high school that somehow caught on to that, or hurt my family or I don’t even know they made it up.

Darshan Mendoza 18:29

Right. How that happened.

Candice Wu 18:31

Yeah, and I don’t know, really feel that identified with that name at all.

Candice Wu 18:38

And then my Chinese name is Yun Yun.

Darshan Mendoza 18:42

Oh, really?

Candice Wu 18:43

Yeah, and I really like it. And it’s interesting, I’ve told this story a few times, probably just once on the podcast, but my brother’s name is Chadwick and his Chinese name is Chat Wei. My sister's name is Lauren, right, and her Chinese name is Lauk Yee. And I was, one day, thinking to my mom, like, I was first born, how did this happen with my name and everyone else has a name that sounds similar to their English? What went on with me?

Candice Wu 19:24

And she said, “Well, I thought it would be easy for you to write.”

Darshan Mendoza 19:29

Oh my gosh!

Candice Wu 19:30

Sound twice.

Darshan Mendoza 19:33

Really? Oh my gosh!

Candice Wu 19:35

Yeah. I was like, “Really mom? Thanks for the faith.” You know, well, thanks for the ease too, you know.

Darshan Mendoza 19:42

Right.

Candice Wu 19:44

But then, she said, “Well, it actually means double happiness.”

Darshan Mendoza 19:51

Oh, yeah.

Candice Wu 19:53

Yeah. So then I became, then I came to some more appreciation. Yeah.

Darshan Mendoza 19:58

And would you say, that’s the frequency and vibration of you?

Candice Wu 20:07

That’s a great question and I haven’t really thought about that, and it just fits here.

Candice Wu 20:12

Yeah. I feel my Chinese name has a stronger vibration of me than my English name. And I still very much vibe with my English name.

Darshan Mendoza 20:24

Yeah. You do both.

Candice Wu 20:26

Yeah.

Darshan Mendoza 20:27

Yeah. That’s the wholeness of you.

Darshan Mendoza 20:29

That’s great.

Candice Wu 20:30

Yeah.

Darshan Mendoza 20:30

It’s almost like your Chinese name is this secret power you have. You know, it’s like your superhero power. And oftentimes, especially in Chinese culture, you know, that tends to be secret. It’s like you don’t say that out loud too often. It’s like it’s weaved within you. But then you’ve got your, like, world name that you walk around with. You know, we were just talking about this yesterday, it was so fascinating, about names.

Darshan Mendoza 21:01

I was talking to actually a Chinese woman and how she named her daughter. And her daughter used to love to reveal what her middle name was to everyone. And then now that she’s becoming a teenager, she’s shy about it. And I said, you know, I don’t even know if she’s shy. I think she just realizes how powerful it is. And maybe she’s just, she likes subconsciously knows that she needs to keep that like sacred as her like power name.

Candice Wu 21:28

Whoa!

Darshan Mendoza 21:29

You know, and we all got chicken skin. We’re like, “Yes!” Because their daughter, so wise. Her daughter’s so bright and wise. I don’t think it’s about like, shame or, you know, embarrassment, but like the teenage stuff. I really think, she like, really knows in her wisdom, like, this is too powerful to just say.

Candice Wu 21:52

Right, and being a child and just being so out with it —

Darshan Mendoza 21:56

Yeah.

Candice Wu 21:57

— expressive of it, and then there’s a threshold where we start to be so aware of the world around us.

Candice Wu 22:05

Wow.

Darshan Mendoza 22:05

Yeah.

Candice Wu 22:09

Wow. Well, I really appreciate this conversation.

Darshan Mendoza 22:12

Yeah me too. I love it.

Candice Wu 22:15

Yeah, and I just think about, I’ve had this conversation in grad school with a few friends who had shifted their name to, I guess the best way to put it as a more Americanized.

Darshan Mendoza 22:29

Yeah, that’s right.

Candice Wu 22:30

Palatable version to American English. And when I said, “Well, what’s your real name and how do you really say it from what your birth name was?”

Candice Wu 22:40

There’s just so much more to them that comes through.

Darshan Mendoza 22:43

Isn’t that wild?

Candice Wu 22:45

Yeah, it’s —

Darshan Mendoza 22:46

I love that.

Candice Wu 22:48

It brings all that wisdom of where it came from?

Darshan Mendoza 22:51

Absolutely.

Darshan Mendoza 22:53

Yeah, I love it too, when I meet folks who, later on in their lives take on their original name, that’s in their language, that too, is such a rite of passage, you know?

Candice Wu 23:08

Oh, very much yeah.

Darshan Mendoza 23:09

So, it’s super important. And, you know, Darshan’s not in the Philippine culture or language. You know, since we know, it’s Sanskrit, so that too, I was like, you know, I had to really think about am I dishonoring my culture if I take this name and or appropriating another culture, you know, but I just really sat with how it was given to me and the messages that were coming after that, the people that were coming to sort of reflect to me, that this was such a gift, you know.

Darshan Mendoza 23:45

And so I took it and I really reconciled anything that I had just some worries about, I reconciled that. And then what was wild was probably a decade later, after I took the name, I was attending a Mystery School in Joshua Tree. It’s a school that I’ve been going to since my 20s. And I was sitting next to this Chinese woman and we were just having lunch and she looks at me and she says, “I know you’re part Chinese.” I said I am and she says, “You know, your name Darshan, means big mountain in Chinese.” And she wrote it for me, and the symbols are beautiful. I still have it written on like, I think, a napkin or something.

Darshan Mendoza 24:32

And that makes sense now too, because —

Candice Wu 24:37

Yeah.

Darshan Mendoza 24:37

I live on, you know, I live in the longest mountain in the world and I’m also very much connected and honor the biggest mountain in the world, which is Mauna Kea, here in the Big Island. So that too, was a really special moment, to learn more about what that name means in Chinese. And then, you know, it was monumental because I thought, that’s what, I can connect to the Chinese part of me. Like, I get it. I get that. You know, like, that’s so good, that’s part of my actual DNA and culture.

Candice Wu 25:13

Oh, yes.

Darshan Mendoza 25:14

Yeah.

Candice Wu 25:15

And the symbols are for, in Cantonese, it would be Dai San.

Darshan Mendoza 25:22

Dai San, yeah.

Candice Wu 25:26

Yeah.

Darshan Mendoza 25:27

Wow.

Candice Wu 25:28

I think she’s speaking Mandarin.

Darshan Mendoza 25:29

Yeah.

Candice Wu 25:30

Dashan.

Darshan Mendoza 25:30

Yeah.

Candice Wu 25:31

And the symbols are basic, really elemental.

Darshan Mendoza 25:37

Oh wow!

Darshan Mendoza 25:38

Absolutely. They’re just like alchemy, very basic strokes and simple in its character. Well, which not all Chinese symbols are. So that just feel so, that feels like you too, you know, there’s this elemental quality of getting to the essence of who you are, and supporting other people and doing that.

Darshan Mendoza 25:59

Oh my gosh, Candice, thank you! You just gave me a huge puzzle piece right now.

Darshan Mendoza 26:06

Because I did never heard it in Cantonese, and that’s where my great grandmother spoke Cantonese.

Candice Wu 26:12

Oh, really?

Darshan Mendoza 26:13

Yeah, and she’s a mystery. She’s a total mystery to us, because —

Candice Wu 26:17

Is she the one who was possibly in a circus?

Darshan Mendoza 26:23

Yes.

Candice Wu 26:25

Tell us about that.

Darshan Mendoza 26:27

Oh, my gosh. So, what I know of my great grandmother, and I actually so blessed but when I was born, I got to spend four years with her. She was still alive when I was born. And her name that she chose for herself was Carmen Cady. And we have no idea where she found that name. But she was known to be, to have moved to the Philippines, because she was fleeing an arranged marriage. And that’s all we know.

Darshan Mendoza 27:02

And all we know is she was a stowaway on a boat, and she just chose the boat, because she needed to run away, and she had no idea that it was going to land in the Philippines. And it landed in the Philippines, right. And there’s she — she’s this beautiful woman, she’s walking off the boat and my great grandfather, Victorino saw her and immediately was drawn to her and then just asked her to move in with him and his sister.

Candice Wu 27:33

Oh, my goodness! Isn’t that wild? She sounds like she has had this giant trust for life.

Darshan Mendoza 27:41

Absolutely.

Candice Wu 27:42

Or had to.

Darshan Mendoza 27:43

She sounds like an absolutely, just some magical being, you know, that has quite a history. And she’s a bit revolutionary, and she had, her secrecy made it so much more intriguing because she refused to talk about anything in her past. And but she, like what she exhibited, as this woman and mother and grandmother and great-grandmother was just so forward-thinking, and just so sovereign, like she didn’t care what anyone thought or anything.

Darshan Mendoza 28:17

And my mom would tell me that she took care of my mom and her nine siblings, you know, after school, the day we would come home, and she’d be like, brewing all kinds of different medicinal things and stews.

Candice Wu 28:31

Oh, I love it!

Darshan Mendoza 28:32

And people would be over, talking very passionately in Cantonese and she’d have her own crew like over at the house, almost talking like about revolutionary things. But no one understood, like, none of the kids understood what she was saying. And she was just a tough woman, like any bullies that would you know, bully my mom and her sisters. She would literally like, chase them down on the street with a knife in her hand.

Candice Wu 29:04

Oh, she’s hilarious — Oh my goodness! Yeah.

Darshan Mendoza 29:08

Yeah. When we recently found out that perhaps she was in a circus, because we found a book written about our family. And so all of us started reading it over Christmas break, because we had a big reunion this past year, and all of us were reading it. And then when that, when we all got to that part, everyone had their own, you know, responses to it. But I was just, I knew in my heart like that was probably true. Yeah.

Candice Wu 29:38

Wow.

Darshan Mendoza 29:39

So like, that explains it. It explains why I am who I am perhaps, you know, that too.

Candice Wu 29:49

How does it explain?

Darshan Mendoza 29:50

I don’t know. I just imagine her being just so adventurous in her life, and like, really open to the mystical and open to magic. And I haven’t quite found an ancestor or relative that’s like that. So I always wonder I’m like, “I wonder where I got that from?” You know?

Candice Wu 30:16

Yeah.

Darshan Mendoza 30:17

Yeah.

Candice Wu 30:20

I feel her presence through you.

Darshan Mendoza 30:22

Yeah.

Candice Wu 30:23

Who she is, and it does feel like that is who she is.

Darshan Mendoza 30:26

Yeah, like somebody who could be, you know, hanging out with tigers and like, just the —

Candice Wu 30:32

Yeah.

Darshan Mendoza 30:32

— the magicians and oddballs and people on the fringe of society. You know?

Candice Wu 30:39

Thinking that it all works.

Darshan Mendoza 30:42

Yeah.

Candice Wu 30:42

You know, that it’s all in the magic of everything. It’s like normal.

Darshan Mendoza 30:47

Right.

Candice Wu 30:47

It’s normal.

Darshan Mendoza 30:48

It’s totally normal. Like, who knows what she would have done in the circus. But it’s such a big clue. And someday, I really want to follow it and find out more, because I think you can, now that you know, you can look up Circuses around that time.

Candice Wu 31:04

Yeah.

Darshan Mendoza 31:04

Around that area, I think we can totally, it’s the clue that she must have given us from wherever she’s journeying now, and it’s something that we could follow. You know, that’s a big one. A big one. I mean, China is a big freakin country. There’s a lot of Chinese people. It’s like, how am I ever gonna find? And we don’t know her real name? How are we going to find out who she is? You know? Yeah, it’s her life so —

Candice Wu 31:31

Well, hearing about her and what you’re saying that she is a big piece of the puzzle of who you are, and shines this light on who you are, it makes sense. And I want to read a piece of your book.

Darshan Mendoza 31:44

Oh, okay.

Candice Wu 31:46

Where this really does shine through, you know, this adventure and this trusting of whatever’s coming your way. Let’s see which piece will I read.

Darshan Mendoza 32:00

While you’re looking, I’m going to sip my coconut water.

Candice Wu 32:04

Sounds good.

Candice Wu 32:07

So I’d like to read two snippets from your book, The Luminary Journey: Lessons from a Volcano in Creating a Healing Center and Becoming the Leader You Were Born to Be.

Candice Wu 32:19

“May 26, 2018, barely slept and felt something coming. Earthquakes and explosion on the daily. New Earth ash in my mouth, and on my skin. We’re becoming new humans, something is happening within. What a primal existence, each of us getting shaken, each of us letting go. Tutu is creating. This is life on a volcano.”

Candice Wu 32:57

And this second segment, “A new Earth began to form our feet, volcanic ashes filled the air, sulfuric particles embedded themselves into our hair, onto our skin, and tongues. My mouth was coated in ashes, my lungs were processing the particles alongside the grief of so many things passing, burning too quickly for my heart to comprehend.”

Candice Wu 33:25

I can feel something as I read that.

Darshan Mendoza 33:30

Yeah, that brings tears to my eyes for sure, to remember how I felt last year.

Candice Wu 33:40

It’s so wild to me that this was just last year.

Darshan Mendoza 33:43

I know. Me too. And then you know, everything, since the eruptions have really accelerated, my life and thinking the collective here, you know, from what I’ve gathered, as I’ve been traveling this year to, so I think our timeline sped up.

Candice Wu 34:06

Yeah.

Darshan Mendoza 34:07

And, yeah, it was such a powerful time.

Candice Wu 34:12

When I read these parts of your book in the very beginning, it was just like, “Oh, my goodness, I can’t even imagine what this really would be like.”

Candice Wu 34:22

I love how you described it so viscerally. Like, how your body experienced it.

Darshan Mendoza 34:29

Yeah.

Candice Wu 34:29

What are the tears in your eyes? What do you feel?

Darshan Mendoza 34:33

There’s just this gratitude. Because I think since then, my experience, you know, being on this island, and it’s such a different energy now, it really does feel like the new Earth. And, you know, we’ve been hearing about the new Earth, right, and this new paradigm.

Darshan Mendoza 34:57

I think, especially if you’re on the spiritual path and you’ve been traveling the path of healing and understanding who you are, understanding what your gifts are in the world, and understanding your role in creating with people. What you’re here to create and share and be of service with, you know, that whole journey.

Darshan Mendoza 35:26

We hear from our elders and our teachers, that we are moving towards, you know, golden age or a new Earth, there are different words for it but we understand, not just intellectually, that there’s a great shift happening. We’re seeing it and experiencing it every moment now and it seems like it’s so much more prevalent, but I think it’s also because we have access to see this live through social media, the Internet, and we’re still connected.

Darshan Mendoza 36:05

And so, you know, it’s wild to have heard about this, throughout our journeys of awakening and transformation, and then to be in it, to literally be so immersed in the actual shift. You know, and so that’s, what was so viscerally moving about this whole year since the eruptions began, May 3rd.

Darshan Mendoza 36:43

You know, it’s like, I want it, you know, you just kind of want to walk around be like, “Oh, my God, you guys, it’s happening. We’re really in it.”

Darshan Mendoza 36:50

It’s no longer like a prophecy, you know, we are the prophecy and we are the children of the prophecy. Right? And we are, you know, like, the Hopi elder had said in that very famous poem and incantation, you know, we are the ones that we’ve been waiting for, like, this is it, this is the time.

Darshan Mendoza 37:12

And so when I recognize that last year, it was almost like, you just see a movie of your life, and all the teachers and all the lessons, and all the things start to really align to show you, okay, these are some of the things that you still have to let go of and learn, and transform from and heal. And then here is what’s calling you forward, here are the gifts that are just waiting for you to own and share. You know, and here are the people like, the essence of the people that are calling you forward, to serve their visions and dreams to and play your role. And so all of that was happening, while you know, physically the earth was literally destroying and creating. And so, we’re so connected, right, and so on a macro level that was happening on this global Earth stage and then on such a micro-level internally, that was happening, too.

Darshan Mendoza 38:23

So it’s literally the most sacred time I’ve ever experienced in my life so far. You know, and so to think about it now and to just hear, you know, that what I wrote on May 26th, or whatever day that was, but just to hear how I was feeling, then, knowing that something was shifting, and we are becoming new humans on this new Earth. You know, our paradigms are shifting and we are ascending with this Earth. And to like, physically feel it, blew my mind.

Darshan Mendoza 39:02

And now, you know, a year later looking back, like, “Oh my gosh, we, yeah, we totally shifted paradigms.”

Darshan Mendoza 39:11

And the way we’re becoming new humans is really just we’re embodying more of our divinity. You know, that’s what it is. We are understanding that we are gods and goddesses walking on this earth and through our actions and through the love that we emit, we are ushering in heaven on earth. That’s how it’s going to be done. It’s going to be through us, stopping to like, descend upon us and we’re not going to ascend to it, you know, it’s, I feel it kind of like a Taurus, where it’s literally coming through us, you know?

Darshan Mendoza 39:49

Yeah. It’s wild because it’s no longer intellectual. It is super embodied. Yeah, and you can see the artifacts because its ashes, literal ashes, there are ashes literally falling from the sky. There were these really amazing blobs of lava that was filled with air so it was very light. There were these green Olivine crystals falling from the sky. And there was what people call here Pele’s hair, but it’s these glass, very thin glass particles, you know, bursting out of the volcano, but also falling down from the sky. So it was very elemental, sulfur is a huge part of alchemy, it’s energy and we were covered in it. You know?

Candice Wu 40:50

Oh, my goodness.

Darshan Mendoza 40:50

Yeah. So there was like, it was actually an alchemical thing that was going on. So yeah, that’s why tears because it’s just so profound. You know, when you’re watching birth, you know, child’s birth, when you’re watching someone die and transform into the next life when you’re watching, just the genius of life. That kind of all. Like, that’s how it feels right?

Candice Wu 41:24

Absolutely. Wow. I can’t even imagine that experience.

Darshan Mendoza 41:34

What’s wild is I think we all got it. Like, I honestly felt so connected to everyone on the planet that knew what was happening here and I know people were connecting to us. You know, I know folks were feeling it. Because I happen to like, just, I don’t know, I was just asked to travel a lot this year. So I got to connect with a lot of people. And even during the actual eruptions, like within two weeks, I was brought out to Seattle, to connect with Tom Kenyon. And he did an amazing sort of weekend workshop and I wasn’t sure why I was signed up for this months ago. And when the eruptions were happening, I thought, “Oh, my gosh, this is the worst time to be leaving the island right now but I have to.”

Candice Wu 42:27

Yeah.

Darshan Mendoza 42:28

Because I’m super called to go. And so I showed up and then I’m sitting in this, you know, Hilton, or something, some hotel waiting for him to get on the stage and I was thinking, “What am I doing here?”

Darshan Mendoza 42:40

All I can think about what was going on at home. And then he gets on the stage and he says, “You know, normally, I would just start chanting right now and introducing you all to the Hathors Star Nation and I’ll just do it through frequency.”

Darshan Mendoza 42:56

But he said, I had a dream last night, and the goddess Pele, came to me. And as many of you know, the Big Island is erupting right now. It’s literally new Earth is coming out. And he said, the people on the island are transforming a lot for the whole planet, we’re all in it together, and they’re doing it right now. But we can so support them and connect to that, because it’s happening to us, too.

Darshan Mendoza 42:59

And he said, “She wants me. This is the Goddess. She wants me to chat for her.”

Darshan Mendoza 43:35

So then he just started chanting for her and playing the drum for about 45 minutes. And I just sat there and I looked around, everyone was crying just like me. And I was shaking, like just pure on, just vibrating. And I felt like he was attuning and she was attuning us through him and I was just in awe. I thought, “Oh my God, it’s happening.” It’s happening and everyone we’re all getting rebirth. It makes sense that the earth is rebirthing herself. She’s ascending. And for us to be on this planet, we are too, you know, in all the small ways, and also the big ways that we’re being called to do that in our lives.

Candice Wu 44:26

Absolutely.

Darshan Mendoza 44:27

Yeah.

Darshan Mendoza 44:29

And even, you know, what was wild when another, like, sort of red flag indicator that this is really happening, you know, was, it was on social media, a lot of people captured it, but Fox News, actually, you know, was covering the eruptions. I mean, everyone was covering the eruptions and the media, but they’re covering event was, you know, they were talking about the lava and all the evacuees, and all the houses that were being covered. But then there is at the bottom of their screen, there is this ticker, moving, you know, and it actually said, “The Goddess Pele is erupting, yeah, on the Big Island of Hawaii.” And I knew, I’m like, this is the ushering in, look at what Fox News is talking about. You know, she made it on Fox News.

Candice Wu 45:25

Whoever she got through too.

Darshan Mendoza 45:29

It’s so awesome. So yeah, that was also like, wonderful to see.

Candice Wu 45:35

Yeah.

Darshan Mendoza 45:37

Yeah.

Candice Wu 45:37

Go ahead.

Darshan Mendoza 45:38

No, just to see the medicine and how it just spread exponentially through the planet, you know?

Candice Wu 45:45

Yeah. And I think that that’s a really, I guess, key part to everything you’re saying. Everything you’re about is this shifting from just seeing things as the concrete, in this case, devastation. The way, you know, some people can see it and I imagine it was devastating on many levels. But that it doesn’t end there. It didn’t end there, for you and for the people that we’re experiencing, and for the people you were connecting with, it was a spiritual message. It was many pieces of transformation coming through that were being felt and we’re receiving the information, the wisdom.

Darshan Mendoza 46:40

Absolutely. It’s so humbling and it’s so empowering at the same time, you know. We’re all in it and we are stewards, for sure. And the ascension of the earth is interconnected with our growth, transformation, healing, and ascension. Yeah.

Candice Wu 47:07

Yeah, you said that life was accelerating pretty quickly now.

Darshan Mendoza 47:12

Absolutely.

Candice Wu 47:13

And the events —

Darshan Mendoza 47:14

Absolutely.

Darshan Mendoza 47:17

I didn’t think I was going to write a book this year. You know, I, also, on a personal level, I’m getting divorced, moving, you know, shifting in relationship. And I also feel that this role that I’m stepping into, is really catapulting me to just show up on this level, where I feel that I’m being called to support people who have a vision and dream. And it can be anything, it doesn’t have to be creating a healing center, although I feel that everything we do now as humanity, as we are awakening, is healing and transformative, and that’s sort of the new baseline of what we are all being asked to create in this world. Right?

Darshan Mendoza 48:11

But I do feel that I am here to help support midwives bring into reality, and manifest all of these visions that luminaries are having. And because we’re all connecting to that to certain frequencies, you know, which is the next paradigm, or the new paradigm, right, and these heavenly, very harmonious and awakened ways of living on earth. So everyone’s getting the download that they’re supposed to get. And they’re becoming, everyone’s, you know, being tapped to be vessels for it.

Darshan Mendoza 48:48

So I feel like, that’s how my life is accelerating. And one of the biggest things that I know I can do is I can help people open up schools and temples and eco villages and healing centers. Because that’s been my experience these last five years here. And I’m really like, the last 15 years, you know, of getting the idea, and then just letting it transform my life so I can be a vessel for it.

Darshan Mendoza 49:21

And so yeah, I feel like that’s going to be accelerating too. I’m being called to create another center. I’m being called to transfer what we’ve created here in volcano into the next steward, who I believe is going to be creating a mystery school here for children. That’s just been recent, you know, a recent development. So there’s a lot of movement and it’s exciting. You know?

Candice Wu 49:51

That’s really exciting.

Darshan Mendoza 49:52

Yeah, I’ve been tapped to help a woman here create a temple for the bees, as well.

Candice Wu 49:59

Oh.

Darshan Mendoza 50:00

I know, it’s so exciting.

Candice Wu 50:02

We need them.

Darshan Mendoza 50:04

Oh, yeah. And I get it now. I’m like, “Oh, okay. This is so exciting.”

Darshan Mendoza 50:09

Because yes, the new Earth is here, we’re on it. You know, it’s been infused in our DNA. We all swallowed it last year, you know, somewhere or the other. And now it’s time to create what wants to be created in harmony and in support of life, and this earth, right, and each other, and that’s like, it’s really happening.

Darshan Mendoza 50:35

Sometimes I gotta pinch myself. You know, and be like, “Oh, no, I’m really awake, this isn’t a dream.”You know, this is reality as we know it and this is really happening.

Darshan Mendoza 50:46

I learned recently to check all the time, if this is a dream or not, because I’m also learning that a dream in my sleeping hours, in a very awakened and lucid way, so sometimes, you know, you wake up with a dream and you think you’re awake, but you’re still really dreaming and stuff.

Candice Wu 51:05

So I have this thing where I poke my hand. And apparently, if you’re dreaming, there’s nothing solitary like your finger may go through your hand if you’re dreaming. But if you’re awake, it’ll hit your flesh and bone and muscles, tendons. So I do that often. I’m like walking around poking my hand. Like, “Okay, no, this is, I’m awake.” So like, these decisions are going to have consequences, keep poking my hand. Yeah, but it’s kind of cool. You know to live that way.

Candice Wu 51:37

It’s hilarious.

Darshan Mendoza 51:38

Yeah.

Candice Wu 51:38

Yeah. Beautiful.

Candice Wu 51:42

Oh, and I don’t know if I’ll say her name correctly, Anutosh?

Darshan Mendoza 51:47

Anutosh? Did you know Anutosh?

Candice Wu 51:50

No, I didn’t know.

Darshan Mendoza 51:51

You didn’t get to hear?

Candice Wu 51:52

I didn’t.

Darshan Mendoza 51:53

But have you heard of her before or no?

Candice Wu 51:56

I feel like I’ve heard her name. Yeah.

Darshan Mendoza 52:00

She’s a — She’s so, she is such — I mean, she’s like my guide, my angel, my spirit animal. Like, she’s everything to me. Yeah, I had the privilege of meeting her because I reached out to a mutual teacher of ours, Francesca Mason Boring, who’s the Shoshone elder that shares you know, Family Constellations with the world and that ceremony. And I reached out to Francesca because I just had this calling to invite her out here so that she could share Constellation work with our community in Hawaii. And it was Anutosh who wrote to me, because Anutosh was helping Francesca facilitate and coordinate all of her facilitation in Seattle area in the United States.

Darshan Mendoza 52:52

So, Anutosh wrote to me, and she’s also an incredible facilitator. And Francesca knew to send her first to sort of like feel it out in Hawaii and see if it would welcome more so Anutosh became our first facilitator that came out here and it was such a special gathering.

Candice Wu 53:15

Beautiful.

Darshan Mendoza 53:18

I mean, truly blew my mind as the healing power of Systemic Constellation work and what it did for our community, what it did for me, how fast and quantum it was, and deep. I just loved how efficient it was, you know, and I love Francesca using the word elegant efficiency.

Candice Wu 53:44

Oh, yeah.

Darshan Mendoza 53:44

When I met Anutosh, it was such a deep connection and she knew that already that she was only going to be on earth for just a little while longer and that too amplified our connection.

Darshan Mendoza 54:00

And I’ve just basically just sat at her feet and listened to everything she wanted to share and she had so much wisdom, and she’s so humble and hilarious, and irreverent. And she’s just this like, the cutest, most vibrant, I think woman I’ve ever met and yeah, and she gave everything. I really felt like she knew she was going to be transitioning so she gave it all. Like, all the wisdom.

Candice Wu 54:36

Wow.

Darshan Mendoza 54:36

We’re so lucky.

Candice Wu 54:37

Yeah.

Darshan Mendoza 54:37

Our community was so lucky to have her come, she came twice.

Candice Wu 54:43

Yeah.

Darshan Mendoza 54:43

She did two sessions here and we just soaked it up.

Candice Wu 54:48

And you said in your book, two weeks before she ascended from the earth plane, that she left you a message, saying, “Darshan, I wanted to share the most beautiful experience of dying, call me back when you can.”

Candice Wu 55:01

And your thought was, “Could she be possibly calling me from heaven?”

Candice Wu 55:06

That was surreal.

Darshan Mendoza 55:09

Our conversation was super surreal. When I called her back, I thought, what, I mean, it’s like talking to an ancestor. You know, talking to God, it’s like talking to an angel, like someone who’s been there, and just has recently come back to have a telephone conversation with you. You know, and it was wild too, we were talking about how we would stay connected as if she was just going on a trip.

Candice Wu 55:38

Yeah. What did you agree upon?

Darshan Mendoza 55:41

It was just through song and through moments of just hilarity? Like, she will continue to show me what’s so hilarious about this Earth and this existence. And then I said, I don’t know if I’m, like, just laughing so hard, like how we always laugh together, about everything, about just the human, the human life, right, and our human traits.

Darshan Mendoza 56:07

She always looked upon people so kindly, and she saw like, human nature is pretty funny, you know, the way that we navigate. And so that’s what she said. She said, “I will show up that way, for sure. And I’ll be laughing with you.” Which was so great to know.

Candice Wu 56:32

Okay, that’s helpful.

Darshan Mendoza 56:34

Yeah, and what a gift. I mean, I, you know, when I’m transitioning, if I’m blessed to know that I am, and I’m blessed to be really awake and conscious through it, that’s what I’m taking from her too is her wisdom, like, leave nothing unfinished. And definitely, like, make sure that you are giving all the wisdom that you want to give. And also, making sure people know that there’s this constant, like eternal connection and you can communicate with each other, you know, through these veils.

Candice Wu 57:22

I’m receiving that. Yeah, for you from her.

Darshan Mendoza 57:25

Yeah.

Candice Wu 57:26

Thank you.

Darshan Mendoza 57:27

Yeah. And she even said, “I’m going to help through the whole manifestation of what you’re creating and stuff.”

Darshan Mendoza 57:34

Which is so I mean, it’s so wild, right? Because we’re so used to praying to our ancestors for these things, but to actually be planning it and talking about it with someone before.

Candice Wu 57:47

Yeah.

Darshan Mendoza 57:48

Before they become it. Yeah. Such a gift she gave.

Candice Wu 57:52

Oh, yeah.

Candice Wu 57:55

My sister and I agreed that we would show up in each other’s dreams.

Darshan Mendoza 57:58

Really?

Candice Wu 58:00

Yes.

Candice Wu 58:01

That’s wonderful to know.

Candice Wu 58:03

Yeah, I’ll look for you there.

Darshan Mendoza 58:04

A solid contract.

Candice Wu 58:06

Right.

Candice Wu 58:08

Yeah, but this is wonderful.

Candice Wu 58:12

So Darshan, what are you, well, this is the question that wants to come through is if you were writing another book right now, which you might be, what would the title of this chapter be? Right now.

Darshan Mendoza 58:28

Oh, that’s such an intuition.

Candice Wu 58:32

You have lovely titles in your book. They’re just so zingy with energy.

Darshan Mendoza 58:39

You know, the first word is just literally gratitude. I feel that. I was walking around this weekend on the land here, I was hosting the person that I will be handing this place off to as the next steward. And that was a surprise, like, this just recently happened a few months, sort of the universe preparing me to do this. But I did not expect to meet this person right away, and I met her right away, literally, just to the tee exactly how this elder who was guiding me told me how it was going to happen and everything. So I was in shock. You know, I’m like, “Oh, my gosh, it’s, I’m going to be handing this place over soon.”

Darshan Mendoza 59:36

And so she was, I think, integrating it herself too. And so she was somewhere in the house, and I decided to walk around outside and just really connect to the land and the ancestors. I just started balling my eyes out as I walked everywhere, because I not only felt my gratitude for the journey that I was on in birthing this place, and I not only saw like flashes of all the humans that have helped me create, co-create this and all the teachers and mentors who believed in me and help guide me through all of my dark nights and doubts and fears, and who were always super compassionate when I failed, and did terrible things, you know, and had to learn lessons in a really hard way too, like, all these people started flashing into my mind, and I was just so grateful.

Darshan Mendoza 1:00:45

So I’m crying, you know, because of all of this is sort of this, like recapitulation of the last decade of my life and the fact that the book just launched over the weekend. That too, I just thought, “Oh, my God, I just wrote a book about the creation of this place.” It almost felt like it was a thesis or dissertation. And I was graduating, because I’m being called to do something, you know, do something else into my next role. And I thought, “Oh my gosh, so this is sort of this graduation.”

Darshan Mendoza 1:01:23

And it was all just dawning on me on the timing, you know, and then what just pretty much put me on my knees, I felt like I was on ecstasy at this point, as I started to feel and receive the gratitude of the land and the gratitude of our ancestors. And what I felt is this is the most easeful transfer of stewardship I’ve could ever imagine.

Darshan Mendoza 1:01:53

The person that showed up was like, I know this is a divine appointment. And it’s a yes. I don’t even know how much you’re gonna sell it for. But it’s a yes. Like, how easy is that? You know?

Candice Wu 1:02:05

Yeah, so easy.

Darshan Mendoza 1:02:08

Yeah, it’s just so divine and so it’s divine flow. And so I was floored, totally floored at how that came to be and I just felt everyone’s ancestors hers, and also the descendants that are going to be blessed by what I’ve created, and what she’s going to create here and just how happy the land was.

Darshan Mendoza 1:02:46

And so, I would say that this would be, if I was to write about this part, just this weekend, I feel like it’s just absolute gratitude, you never know, really how things are going to interweave and how things are going to connect in your life, you know, and who you’re going to meet around the corner, that’s going to be like a monumental meeting, you’ll never know. And the only responsibility is to just show up authentically, to each moment.

Darshan Mendoza 1:03:26

You know, the way I met this person was, I was on a call with my publisher. And I was just, yeah, just sitting on that call and she hopped on, even though she wasn’t gonna hop on the call, either, because she was, because I wasn’t going to make it on the call either. But I thought something called me like, “You have to, no even if you’re driving, just get on the call, just listen.” You know?

Darshan Mendoza 1:03:54

And so she was traveling, so she’s literally walking through TSA. And something told her to hop on the moment she got through the line. And within that moment, someone just happened to mention on the call that I have a retreat center out here on the Big Island. And she heard it and she needed to hear that. Right?

Darshan Mendoza 1:04:13

And so, you know, you look at these, all these connect the dots and stuff. And when you’re sitting in those moments when you get to look back and see how things connected and weaved, man, like the flood of gratitude. It’s pretty amazing. Because then you realize, Oh, my God, all these miracles had to happen, all of these synchronicities and it really took everyone listening to their hearts and intuition to get to this place.

Candice Wu 1:04:47

You trusted yourself that impulse in you that I just had to get on this call. Who knows why?

Darshan Mendoza 1:04:55

Yeah.

Candice Wu 1:04:55

And you showed up as yourself and what I see too, Darshan is that circling back to your name, again, is that vision of the Divine. You see that in people, you see the magic, and the gifts, and the genius, you said of people. And it also feels really clear, and beautiful, how you receive visions of others about you and that goes deep into and goes a long way. No other people have seen your name in you. Other people have seen, you said that, was it your ancestor, or somebody that said, oh, sorry, your teacher that said described how easy this would transition. And here it was landing on your space?

Darshan Mendoza 1:05:53

Yeah.

Candice Wu 1:05:53

This is a nice circle and loop of what you give and what you also receive.

Darshan Mendoza 1:06:00

Thank you for reflecting that. I totally, just like, ate that up into my heart. Thank you. Yeah. It’s and how divine is it that we get if we continue to just see the divine in one another? Imagine the cocreations that are going to come forward from that.

Candice Wu 1:06:31

It’s a beautiful reminder and message and syncs us back to who we really are.

Darshan Mendoza 1:06:40

Absolutely.

Candice Wu 1:06:41

Well, I have so much gratitude for you.

Darshan Mendoza 1:06:45

You too.

Candice Wu 1:06:45

You’re doing and you’re sharing today and I knew it from the first moment we connected. And then it just was so easy to talk to you from the beginning and I’m so happy that we’re connected. Thank you so much for being here today.

Darshan Mendoza 1:07:03

Thank you for doing this. This is such an incredible way to gather and share and witness each other, you know, in our divinity and in our gifts and the wisdom that we all hold. This is big, you know, thank God for technology and podcasts and all this stuff and the people —

Candice Wu 1:07:25

Yeah.

Darshan Mendoza 1:07:26

— that really use this technology to share love and this frequency in the world, and I just bow down. I’m so grateful. I’m so honored. This has been a really an incredible healing and grounding experience for me to talk about this. And yeah, I’m just super excited to see how you continue yourself to spread, you know, your Yun Yun and your double happiness all over? I think you are an amplification of happiness, for sure. You’re an amplifier. So thank you, Candice.

Candice Wu 1:08:06

Thank you. Wow, I’m really receiving that too. And where can people find you and your book?

Darshan Mendoza 1:08:17

So right now it is out as an ebook. And today, well, it will be later, so but today, July 1st, it’s for free. But I am offering it as my advanced reader copy. I sent it to you, to Chris, and so you guys are so welcome to share that. Just share it and forward it to each other. But it is available that way and it is also in ebook form right now on amazon.com. It’s called The Luminary Journey. And then it’ll be a print book eventually in I think, February next year, it’ll be in bookstores next year. And then we’re going to work on the audible also next year, probably around August, which is exciting.

Candice Wu 1:09:08

Oh, that’s exciting. Are you going to speak it yourself?

Darshan Mendoza 1:09:13

Yeah. Oh, no, actually, I think no, I think they’re going to choose someone more professional that can enunciate. And you know, I think, you know, we’ll see, I don’t mind not speaking it myself. I feel like, —

Candice Wu 1:09:27

Yeah.

Darshan Mendoza 1:09:28

I love audible books and so I really trust my publisher and picking the right voice. And I get to, I think to choose too, but I love hearing like professional speakers that have that. I just have that frequency and vibration in their voice, you know.

Darshan Mendoza 1:09:48

You have it. I love you how your voice really sounds. So I totally trust that it’s going to be a divine appointment. It’s going to be the perfect person to do that. So they can definitely find me through those venues but right now, when this comes out, Amazon. And then you can log on to theluminaryjourney.com, and there’s a giveaway there that kind of condenses the 8 milestones of The Luminary Journey, and a giveaway, a free giveaway. And you’ll also have an opportunity to schedule a time to chat and tell me about your dreams and vision because I am definitely here and open to help people manifest that. Yeah.

Candice Wu 1:10:38

Oh, that’s great. That’s wonderful. I will link all of that to our show notes here. And this podcast specifically and your experientials, your advanced reader, and the links for Luminary Journey are going to be at CandiceWu.com/darshanmendoza.

Darshan Mendoza 1:10:58

Oh, thank you!

Candice Wu 1:10:59

So it would be very easy for everyone to just jump on there and receive all the gifts that you’re offering. It’s wonderful. It’s such a gift and I have so much gratitude for you.

Darshan Mendoza 1:11:12

Oh, thank you.

Candice Wu 1:11:13

And send it to.

Darshan Mendoza 1:11:15

Yeah.

Candice Wu 1:11:16

And I’m excited that people will have a chance to connect with you.

Darshan Mendoza 1:11:20

Me, too. I’m really grateful Candice. Thank you so much and thank you, listeners.

Candice Wu 1:11:27

Thank you so much. Is there anything you want to leave with today?

Darshan Mendoza 1:11:31

Oh.

Candice Wu 1:11:32

See what comes into your heart?

Darshan Mendoza 1:11:34

Yeah, you know, I feel everyone through time and space. And I just want to say to all of you, that this divine spark that you know, you have within you, this is truly the time to share it and amplify it, with the world. It is such an incredible, beautiful, scary, liberating, empowering experience to do so. And you’re so not alone in that journey, because we’re all awakening to that within ourselves.

Darshan Mendoza 1:12:23

So you know, listening to podcasts and reading the books, and just having incredible conversations with each other, and vulnerably sharing what your dreams are, is so integral right now. And I’m just really excited for myself to be part of all of this that’s happening on earth and connecting in this way. So keep connecting. Yeah, and keep shining it. Because we all need it. We all need to be called forward.

Candice Wu 1:12:58

Yeah, in our fullest as much as we can. Thank you.

Darshan Mendoza 1:13:03

Absolutely.

Darshan Mendoza 1:13:05

Thank you. Mahalo. Salamat.

Candice Wu 1:13:07

If you’ve made it this far, thanks so much for bearing with us through the interference on my end of the podcast, and I hope you enjoyed this podcast, regardless.

Candice Wu 1:13:22

It’s incredible to hear Darshan’s story and to read these bits of her notes that she took while going through the volcano and experiencing this life-changing life-altering devastation, where she found transformation and meaning in where she saw and experienced a vision for what life could become on this earth.

Candice Wu 1:13:51

It’s very inspiring and invites us all to look at what’s going on in the world, with earth, and in our lives, that is showing us a new way, is showing us to leave the old paradigm or to let things die, to let go or surrender into something else.

Candice Wu 1:14:17

Thanks so much, Darshan for coming out to the show. I truly enjoyed it and I look forward to hearing more from you.

Candice Wu 1:14:24

As a reminder, tune into your copy of the advanced reader of The Luminary Journey: Lessons from a Volcano in Creating a Healing Center and Becoming the Leader You Were Born to Be that Darshan wrote after the volcano, you can download that for free just by following the links at CandiceWu.com/darshan.

Candice Wu 1:14:44

Darshan also mentioned Francesca Mason Boring a mutual friend and colleague of ours. You can find Francesca’s episode at CandiceWu.com/francesca.

Candice Wu 1:14:56

If you want to connect with the transcription of this episode, it should be out soon in the next couple of weeks from the published date of this episode, and be sure to check out previous episodes and their transcriptions at the website at CandiceWu.com/podcast.

Candice Wu 1:15:13

If you want to stay connected to me and receive updates of my travels, self-love notes as well as workshops, retreats, and podcast updates, find me at my newsletter that comes out every two to three weeks at CandiceWu.com/embody where you can sign up to receive those.

Candice Wu 1:15:33

It’s really wonderful to have you here today and I will leave you with a couple of thoughts and feelings from me. I can just hear Darshan saying mahalo, and I invite us all to look at our lives as transformation happening and how we can see transformation through devastation. How can we look for the learning that’s coming through, with things that feel out of our control, and also how we can cleanse ourselves so we can shine brightly in the world as ourselves.

Candice Wu 1:16:23

Thank you so much for joining us today. And see you next time on the Embody Podcast.

Candice Wu 0:00

This episode is with special guest Kerry Maiorca of the beloved Bloom Yoga Studio in Chicago, and in this episode, we explore how to give yourself permission that you can’t do this wrong, that how we do self-care is more important than what we do, why first graders are better at meditation than you are, and being brave to do what’s enough and not more.

Candice Wu 0:25

Hello and welcome. You’re listening to the Embody Podcast, a show about remembering and embodying your true nature, inner wisdom, embodied healing, and self-love.

Candice Wu 0:38

My name is Candice Wu, and I’m a holistic healing facilitator, intuitive coach, and artist, sharing my personal journey of vulnerability, offering meditations and guided healing support, and having co-creative conversations with healers and wellness practitioners from all over the world.

Candice Wu 0:56

This episode is sponsored by My Workshops. The next one coming up is July 21, 2019, in Chicago, Illinois, and it’s called Restore the Flow of Love, whether it related to abundance, money, love, relationships, your health, or disease, tension in your body, your career, your purpose, our struggles related to these connect with early unconscious and unspoken ways of belonging and the flow of love through the ancestry. So, the connection with our lineage is carried through our bodies, in the cells, the viscera, the heart, energy, in our disease, in our fluidity, in our freedom, and where those before us didn’t get to integrate a loss or trauma, where there was an imbalance or relationships, that flow of love is disrupted and is a placeholder for where there’s energy, strength, and resource waiting for us to open and for it to flow towards us.

Candice Wu 2:00

So, in family and systemic constellations, we constantly acknowledge these dynamics that are in the undercurrent of the system were a part of, whether they’re known or unknown. So, in this workshop will set up several constellations for people who are interested in seeing what those underlying dynamics are for, the struggles they’re having, or some area of life that they want something different, and in that, we restore the flow of love, allowing you to move from a more natural space from ease and freedom, and embodiment, authenticity, and truth. So, if you’re interested, check out the workshop at CandiceWu.com/flowoflove. If this day has already passed for you, you can check out all the other workshops coming up at CandiceWu.com/events.

Candice Wu 2:52

Hello, everyone, it’s great to have you, and I’m so excited to share this conversation with Kerry Maiorca today. Kerry’s mission is to inspire you to slow down, to breathe more deeply, and to do a little less. She specializes in teaching gentle and restorative yoga, and that’s how we met. I loved teaching restorative yoga at Bloom Yoga Studio in Chicago and the community, all the people, the space, everything that Kerry touches is infused with this spaciousness, this love, and the simplicity of everyone can do this practice, we all can take a deep breath. So, I invite you to do this now, to take this deep breath, and to slow down, and I invite you into this conversation with Kerry to be nourished.

Candice Wu 3:47

Kerry is passionate about sharing the depth of her practice in an accessible, individualized and down-to-earth way, and she is also the chair of the board for the Yoga Alliance and has been teaching yoga for over 20 years. She loves mentoring, both new and experienced yoga teachers, to help them authentically shine in their practice and who they are, and as teachers, and in September 2019, she’ll be co-leading the Nourish Life Retreat in Aspen, and that is complete with gentle yoga, culinary-nutrition classes, and a creativity reboot, and she’ll share about that in this podcast as well as you can check out all that information at KerryMaiorca.com and in the show notes attached to this episode.

Candice Wu 4:35

So, with this inspiration of Kerry’s presence here, I invite you to slow down right now, to feel a breath, to just take in whatever’s here for you to a little less as you listen in today. Maybe don’t multitask or maybe just slow down a little bit, and I invite you into this conversation with Kerry.

Candice Wu 5:12

Hello Kerry, it’s great to have you on the show today.

Kerry Maiorca 5:15

Thank you so much for having me. I always love getting a chance to connect with you and really dive into interesting topics.

Candice Wu 5:23

I know, we talked about such interesting things. I’m so excited to talk to you, and where I met you was Bloom Yoga Studio, Kerry, and it’s, this is a studio that has been just growing, the word bloom is just so perfect. It is continually blooming and so lovely, and also, you’ve grown even more into different parts of you, I just would like to open the space for you to share where you are on your journey and what you’re doing now.

Kerry Maiorca 5:58

Thanks, Candice. I love the word bloom, too, and I love it for so many reasons because I think that, to me, it calls to mind the cycle of plant life and flowers, growth, and that it is something that you know, can change over periods of time and develop in different ways, and that’s really what is most exciting to me in my own life, and you know, I founded bloom 15 years ago, and, you know, it’s amazing to say that it’s hard, it’s been so much fun, it’s sort of flown by, but I really started it for very particular reasons, which are still true today, but have kind of also evolved, and I really founded Bloom because I felt like yoga could be very intimidating for people, and I had experienced the transformational benefits of it for myself.

Candice Wu 6:52

Yeah.

Kerry Maiorca 6:53

The practice of the postures, the deep and conscious breathwork, meditation, and then for me also, a huge, huge part was the restorative poses and relaxation. I know we have that same love of restorative work.

Candice Wu 7:10

Yeah.

Kerry Maiorca 7:11

And I just found that it seems complicated to the outside world, and sometimes the imagery of what means yoga, and what is that all about? Who are you? Who do you have to be able to practice it? I found that so many people never saw themselves in that image, and never felt it could fit in their lives. And so, that was really what started the whole place, and that’s what we’ve drawn, you know, we’ve drawn people.

Candice Wu 7:41

Oh, yeah.

Kerry Maiorca 7:42

I just was talking with a trainee yesterday on our mentorship call, and he was saying to me, when I told people, I became a yoga teacher who’ve known me for my whole life, they could not believe it, and there’s just still, there’s like this barrier that people think yoga is other, and to me, like, you don’t need to be able to do anything fancy to be taking a deep breath, and slowing down, and that’s what I love most about yoga and what I love most about Bloom, and as you said, I really believe in a simple approach, because I think that that’s what works for me, you know, if I make it complicated, if I make it other or too esoteric, I don’t even ever get a chance to go into the depth, you know, because it just doesn’t feel like me, I’m silly, I’m goofy, I, you know, get frustrated. I yell at my kids sometimes, and then apologize later, you know, I make bad decisions. I’m a regular person. So, I think that’s really…

Candice Wu 8:47

Yeah.

Kerry Maiorca 8:47

….like, that is the thing I started it for, and I learned more about that as we’ve been open and it’s still so true for me today, and you know, now I’m shifting in different ways but that’s what, that’s what I love. That’s why I’m still doing this work. It’s not because of being able to do any fancy pose, it’s not about the splits or balancing on one hand, like that is not what I’m about. I’m about slowing down, breathing deeply, and just getting quiet.

Candice Wu 9:22

I feel that, you know, when I was a teacher there, which I just so adore of my time there and being just in that energy, and with people there, and also, being a student there at times, and just walking in the space is like I’m able to bring my whole self like, yes, the normal self. It’s not like I have to cut part of myself off and only be a certain part of myself to fit into this yoga class, and it’s so refreshing.

Kerry Maiorca 9:54

Yeah, I’m really glad that you felt that, and of course, oh my gosh, we were so delighted and honored to have you teaching at Bloom, and ah, you’re amazing, because I think you really embody that authenticity, and also, that sort of spacious, slow, deep work that I just, you know, whether I was in your class, or just being with you, talking with you, I always come away with that feeling, and it’s really inspiring. I love that about you.

Candice Wu 10:25

Thank you, I think restorative yoga gives me even more permission to do that because it’s this is the yoga. It gives me the format, to even go slower. So, it helps me.

Kerry Maiorca 10:42

But as a teacher, you have to be brave doing that. I think that the thing I’ve found, I talked about this a lot with teachers, and just think about this for myself. I’ve been teaching over 20 years, and still, I sometimes can go into class and think they’re going to want more.

Candice Wu 11:03

Oh, yeah.

Kerry Maiorca 11:04

And this is this pull that we feel like as practitioners, sometimes we should be doing more, you know, the terrible should.

Kerry Maiorca 11:13

And as teachers, we worry that all they want their butts kicked, so I better you know, throw in a few more Chaturangas and hold all these strong poses longer, and there is nothing wrong with that, I’m you know, I love exercise, and I love straight strengthening my muscles and working, and I also feel the yoga space gives us one place in our life where it isn’t about that, and so, as teachers, and as practitioners, we should just seize that and enjoy it, because it might be the only time we get to do it. You know, slow, soft, and still be yourself. You don’t have to be so serious, and it doesn’t have to be so sacred. It is simple. It’s, but, profound.

Candice Wu 11:13

Yeah.

Candice Wu 12:00

Well, what you’re saying, like, it is a brave thing to do that, to like cut through, the expectations that we have on ourselves that the outer world may have on us or what we’ve, I don’t know, somehow, it just feels like so distorted. Like, somehow we have distorted this image of yoga that is this doing more, kicking our butts in place, and yeah, there is a level of bravery just to do it simply and to say, “No, I’m going to be brave and not do more.” And be brave and do the simple thing.

Kerry Maiorca 12:34

And what’s so amazing about that, when you do that, whether you’re a teacher or as a practitioner, yourself, when you give yourself permission to do less, is that as you practice it over time, it translates into your real life. You know, for me, this morning, for example, I woke up and I had had a plan to do a more active asana practice, and I woke up and I just, I was tired. Like my body felt a little bit drained. But I still really wanted to practice, and so I thought, well, what can I do that honors how I’m actually feeling, you know, but and gets me that sense of connection, and so, I decided I was going to practice my meditation, and just do restorative only that day.

Candice Wu 13:25

Yeah.

Kerry Maiorca 13:26

And then the funny part was, that my youngest child who’s just almost four, she had another idea, which was she wanted to play with me in the morning, and so, I, my yoga practice became, “Oh, this is my time to connect with my daughter.” I went in, we played babies, we had a lovely time, I get to take a nap because that was part of the game. I was very happy.

Candice Wu 13:49

Oh, yeah.

Kerry Maiorca 13:50

And then I said to her, okay, now, you know, now I need to go do my practice. And so I went in, and I sat down and I practice my meditation for a few minutes, and then in she comes, you know, “Can I sit with you?” How sweet is that! So, I opened up my blanket and she sits on my lap, I cuddle her in, and she sat with me in meditation for maybe like two minutes, which for almost-four-year-old is a long time.

Candice Wu 14:16

Yeah.

Kerry Maiorca 14:17

And then she scurried off on her way, and you know, she got to see me advocating for myself, to take time to do quiet and stillness, and then she got to, you know, tap into it for a second, and for me, you know, the me of five years ago, would have felt frustrated, resentful, and also just sort of like, sorry for myself, you know, I woke up early, and then my daughter took this time for me that I wanted for my practice, but the real-life is always happening, and that’s where, if yoga is only about achieving the poses, and doing something, it doesn’t really help you in your real life. You’re sitting you’ll be bent out of shape, when you know, someone at work does something that bothers you or your partner had, you know, you have a fight with your partner, and you’re not going to be able to even see that as the yoga but that is the yoga.

Kerry Maiorca 15:13

And so, you have to have the actual practice, and you have to carve out the space and time to you know, get slow, get still, get quiet and do those practices, and I love my asana practice, it’s just become way less important to me, then the mindset, which carries off of my meditation and into my life, where I can see, “Hey, she needs to connect with me right now.” That’s beautiful, and I want to do that.

Candice Wu 15:36

That’s beautiful. And when you say that is the yoga, I love that, and what can you say more, that is the yoga and the mindset.

Kerry Maiorca 15:48

If you think back to what any of the, you know, ancient texts of yoga that whatever your tradition and approach, you know, those are there, you know, whether you really resonate with some of these texts or not, they are the foundation of what you are practicing when you are practicing yoga, and I always like to think about and when I’m teaching, you know, tell my students that the asana is the vehicle for what’s actually happening, you know, the asana, the poses themselves, those are not doing yoga, you know, we call that that it’s, that’s the easiest way to call it when we’re in a class, those are the things we practice to get us in our bodies and to connect with the breath, and you know, to also take care, its maintenance, I see asana as maintenance, it’s a way to stay a little stronger, a little bit gently mobile and balanced, and then to use the breath to regulate the nervous system, those are the maintenance tasks.

Kerry Maiorca 16:51

If it only ends there to me, that’s really, that’s short, changing what I could be experiencing with yoga. I like to think about what is the pose for, you know, why am I practicing oppose whether it’s restorative or active? What am I doing it for? Partly, I’m doing it to maintain the body but I could do that at a gym. So, what’s the difference? And so to me, I think the difference is the mindset, and the idea of, you know, non-harming, of being truthful with ourselves, like for me this morning, truth was, I need a slow, soft practice, and you know, some days it’s, I need to not go to the gym, today, I need to do something gentler with myself, or I need to go to bed really early, even though I was planning on doing a little work before bed, it’s those kinds of things, where you’re attentive to what’s actually happening, rather than putting should, over everything you do, and operating in a robotic way.

Kerry Maiorca 17:51

To me, the yoga of everyday life is learning to be more intuitive, and more connected, we use what we do in the yoga classroom, to develop those skills, to develop greater sensitivity to the body and the breath, and to actually be quiet enough to hear the thoughts, because most of our daily life doesn’t give us the space for that, or we don’t take it, we could, anytime. But it’s hard to take it with, you know, what we read and what we do on a device and our work, and our family, and listening to music, and you know, listening to wonderful podcasts, like yours.

Kerry Maiorca 18:29

You know, we’re always about input, and when you get on a yoga mat, you know, I practice and teach with silence. Some people use music, even with you know, very quiet music, you can still access this, but personally, I love to practice in silence because it’s not input, and then I can hear my thoughts and I can get to know, what am I saying to myself? Am I kind? Am I telling myself I’m not good enough? You know, it’s that to me is where yoga on a mat, whether it’s in a class or in my home practice, it’s the way to maintain the body to regulate the breath and the nervous system, and then to really just physically provide a rest. But it’s so much about the mind, and I get some of my, I don’t know if this happens to you, Candice, but I get some of my best ideas for writing, when I’m practicing, you know, and just…

Candice Wu 19:22

Oh, yeah.

Kerry Maiorca 19:23

…like the creativity, it’s just incredible.

Candice Wu 19:25

This start flowing.

Kerry Maiorca 19:27

Yeah.

Candice Wu 19:28

Yeah. I mean, I get it all. I get the creativity, some days, and some days, I get the grief for the sadness, or the anger or whatever. But it’s that place to really listen, as you’re saying, and I love how you’re speaking to not taking it as a robotic and rigid practice, but as that tool to learn the flexibility and mobility in your daily life, to be present to what’s happening and respond, and listen to how you’re talking yourself in those moments, when you made a plan for something else.

Kerry Maiorca 20:03

Yeah.

Candice Wu 20:04

When your daughter comes in and says, “Can I sit with you?” And what happens right in that moment, and what’s needed and honoring that, and it’s so interesting how we have segmented that from daily life, like yoga as a separate thing.

Kerry Maiorca 20:23

Yeah.

Candice Wu 20:24

And it’s not.

Kerry Maiorca 20:24

I love that, I love what you said about, it’s about flexibility and mobility in daily life. I think that’s so true, and you can see the class or the practice at home as the workshopping, you know, you’re developing strength, flexibility in your body, and hopefully, it comes with you. After you roll up the mat…

Candice Wu 20:46

Yeah.

Kerry Maiorca 20:47

…because life is not perfect, and there’s this feeling, I think that there has been this thought kind of running through my head, especially with kids, but you know, whether or not you have kids, everyone has busyness, or has can have busyness in their life, and there can be these times where you sort of tell yourself these stories, like when I’m not so busy, I’ll be more present, or I’ll be more patient or when I’m, you know, when this big project ends, that’s when I’m going to really recharge and take time for myself. And I, my mission is to empower other people and myself, continually remind myself that we don’t need to wait until things get perfect to find greater peace and well being and that we must prioritize that even in the busiest, most demanding stressful times because otherwise, what’s the point? You know, otherwise, it is just like you said, it’s such a separate thing.

Kerry Maiorca 21:43

And what I like about yoga is it’s not, it doesn’t feel separate to me. It feels so integrated because, you know, it’s a reminder, just, why not just take a deep breath now? And why not just when you’re tired in the afternoon, you lie down for 10 minutes and see, you know I think it’s just it’s so awesome. It’s such a great practical tool but like you said, it’s seen as this other thing that we do, and we’re wearing yoga clothes, you know, it’s like when we have a bunch of props and yoga clothes, and we’re like in a certain mindset, but it can be so much more than that.

Candice Wu 22:20

Absolutely. Well, and yoga in itself means union…

Kerry Maiorca 22:26

Yes.

Candice Wu 22:26

…and it is that integration of everything, not a separate practice, and I love how you’re saying this, we don’t need to wait until things get perfect to find greater peace and well being, and I definitely hear myself say at times, like when this week’s over, because it’s so busy,

Kerry Maiorca 22:48

Yeah.

Candice Wu 22:48

I’ll do the X, Y&Z or when this ends or when I’m not so busy, and now I’m just hearing that as you say it, just giving myself the cue that that is my signal, that I need to look at, “How did I get here to begin with, and let’s take that breath.”

Kerry Maiorca 23:06

Because it happens. That’s one part of the practice first. Yeah.

Candice Wu 23:09

Right. It already like I got here, I likely created that.

Candice Wu 23:16

Not to blame, you know, not to shame or blame or criticize ourselves. But yeah, I was just reading one of your articles about fear being your CEO, really not letting fear be your CEO, and it’s probably the times I let fear be my CEO that I got there to begin with, where I may be overloaded again, but to take the breath and just come out of it, the moment.

Kerry Maiorca 23:44

Yeah, and you’re so right, it’s totally not about blaming in any way. It’s, that’s not the point, because actually, the only way you can ever make a change is if you are aware of it, and that was sort of an interesting thing for me in my when I first came to yoga, you know, when we first practiced meditation, even in very small doses, I found it to be torturous, because the way my mind was working at that time was, as if was a scary place to be, because I just was like, I was just yelling at myself, I was just berating myself mentally, and you know, from the outside, you wouldn’t have known that and I’ve always been a very positive, upbeat, you know, kind of can-do person, but once I got quiet enough, then I was realizing, “Oh, my gosh, I am not nice to myself, mentally.”

Kerry Maiorca 24:35

And so, I think that when you do realize something like that, like, “Oh, man, how did I let busyness take over?” And I’ve really tried to remove the phrase, when someone asks me how I am, I really try hard not to ask, not to answer it by saying I’m busy, crazy busy, so busy, because it does something to me, it activates me in a way that is I don’t want to buy into.

Candice Wu 24:59

Yeah.

Kerry Maiorca 24:59

However, there are times when I look at my schedule and my life, and I think, “If I could go back and do this again, I would do it differently.” I’d structure you know, take this piece out or space out these big events, but, being able to say that even when you’re in the moment, you’re feeling the stress, you’re really feeling like, “Wow, that was not a decision I would make again,” that is powerful, and that is progress because at a certain point in your life, you had that same scenario and didn’t even see it, and so that’s what I like to think about whenever I’m having a moment where I’m feeling frustrated with myself and thinking, “I wish I would have done that differently,” made a different choice. I think to myself, “Oh, good. I just noticed that.” And even if I can’t do anything to change it right now, I’ve just noticed, maybe next time, I’ll notice and then maybe I’ll take action, but maybe not. You know, it takes a lot of time of just noticing before you can ever take action. That’s been my experience.

Candice Wu 25:57

Absolutely.

Kerry Maiorca 25:59

And I think that the other thing about that, what is the action, by tendency, I’ll speak for myself only. My tendency is one of extremes, and so I am great at being 100% on and just going pushing, you know, I can just go, I can do it, and then off, like off sleeping, you know, that’s really good and easy for, you know, that’s like great on and off is great. It’s the in-between. That’s hard, and so, I think when we think about us getting to this place where we’re super stressed, we’re feeling more like that hundred percent, and it’s not sustainable, it doesn’t feel positive. When we think about well, “What could I do to counteract that or help myself get back to a feeling of normalcy or feeling, you know, rested and nurtured?” The tendency is I need, you know, an hour and a half yoga class or I need an hour-long massage, I need a weekend away, or I need, you know, it can see me like the fix to that is something big, but what I have found, and what I’m trying to practice and teach is that the fixed can be small.

Kerry Maiorca 27:08

So, if I only have five minutes to breathe deeply, and to just calm myself down, that is really powerful, and if I do that on a more regular basis, I still need the longer thing, you know, I need the long restorative practice, I need time away from everyone to recharge, but, on a sort of day to day basis, you’re not going to have those opportunities, most of us, and so, what can you find? You can find small moments to breathe, or you can do a 15-minute restorative pose. That is magic. That’s like the thing I wish everyone would do. I tell my teachers so much like just set your timer, lie down, take a pose 15 minutes and see what happens. You’re a different person. It’s magic.

Candice Wu 27:56

Yeah, well, every time I do that, even for like two minutes, I’m a different person.

Kerry Maiorca 28:00

Oh, yeah.

Candice Wu 28:01

Yeah.

Kerry Maiorca 28:01

That’s right.

Candice Wu 28:03

Maybe even one or 30 seconds.

Kerry Maiorca 28:06

Or even a few, even three deep breaths. I mean, so, if I’m with my kids, and I’m feeling like I’m just up to my eyeballs in it, and I’m so struggling, I’m struggling to be kind and compassionate and patient, I will take even one breath, I’ll take a breath, exhale through my mouth and feel the tension releasing from my shoulders and my neck, soften my jaw, and then I sometimes not all the time have the presence of mine to say to them, “I’m sorry, I’ve been a little frustrated. I’m feeling tired. I didn’t get enough sleep, or I’m feeling a little bit stressed because I have this thing do later, and I was thinking about that.” And that’s amazing when I can do that, and some days I just plain can’t, but at least I took the breath.

Candice Wu 28:50

Absolutely. I love how encouraging you are to yourself now, and in even just noticing the thing that you’d like to change and encouraging yourself that you noticed it and that that’s a good thing. We don’t do that as a whole society. Like, “Oh, well, that should have changed years ago.”

Kerry Maiorca 29:11

Yes.

Candice Wu 29:12

So why didn’t, right?

Kerry Maiorca 29:14

Well, I do have some of that, too.

Candice Wu 29:16

Yeah. Don’t we all?

Kerry Maiorca 29:18

Yeah.

Candice Wu 29:19

Yeah. Well, I was curious, Kerry. What are you struggling with today? What do you tussling with, or what feels up in the air for you, of your learning?

Kerry Maiorca 29:33

I think that the thing I’m always struggling with is my relationship with time. I think that I am a person that fills up the space I’m in and fully, you know, fully loves and embodies what I’m in and doing, and I tend to want to put more into everything, you know, I’m a more person, I think it’s this, this struggle with more. I’m really trying to find enough, and to see, like, what would be enough to do today, in this time, I have? You know, like, in my own work life, I can set a list of, you know, five things I want to accomplish in a two-hour period and think that’s realistic. So, you know…

Candice Wu 30:26

Yeah.

Kerry Maiorca 30:27

….this evolution of what if I just did a little less, you know, so I think the reason I teach this stuff, is because I’m still working with it myself. It’s not I don’t teach it from a place of mastery, I teach it from a place of process and of this really strong conviction that there are lots of people who have the same struggle of more, and for those of us who are more people, the practice is, how can I do a little less and find enough. So, I think that that’s really where I am, and I see it in a lot of different aspects of my life. Just sort of my professional goals for myself, you know, with my writing or with, you know, projects, I’m taking on, that piece of it, I see it with what I want to try to do with my kids, I see it with my own, you know, personal practice and sort of self-care time, and it’s just always this balance. It’s like, what would be enough right now?

Candice Wu 31:32

I just take a really nice, deep breaths of that, how do I do a little lesson find enough? I struggle with that too, with time, and the most recent thing that happened for me, in my healing process about time, is that I found that it connected with my young self. Well, again, right, like layers and layers of working with. But here’s another piece, like my younger self, it came back to the same thing in a deeper way, that there was a feeling of wanting more time with my mother when I was younger, and there were certain circumstances of not, of perhaps me wanting more, than the time could give, but also certain circumstances where she had to be away and doing, and working. Certain occasions that when I was an infant, and then into young life, and I could just connect with that part of me that it was kind of life or death feeling that if I didn’t have enough time, it would just feel so terrible, and I needed more, I needed more, I needed more, and that just applied to the rest of my life blindly, you know, where I would just fill it with more, but it never really satisfied that.

Candice Wu 32:53

So, if filling my time with more was satisfying to the part of me that needed it, then it would have been complete…

Kerry Maiorca 33:01

Right.

Kerry Maiorca 33:09

Wow, that is so beautiful. I love that perspective, and I think, you know, thanks for sharing that. That’s, really profound, and I think that regardless of kind of that, whether that feeling is there as a child, or as you know, as an infant, there’s something that’s so universal in the part about kind of more love for yourself, too, you know, like, regardless of whether where that came from that’s, you know, I really love what you shared, I’m going to ponder that, and I know that what you said about giving yourself more just never does it, it just fills you with more stuff.

Candice Wu 34:21

Yeah.

Kerry Maiorca 34:21

Like it’s just more stuff, and sometimes, it just becomes even more distractions and more challenges, and more ways to take you away from your true self, and I love your choice of the word nourished, and that has become a really powerful word for me. Just in the last few months, I started working with my dear friend, Laura, and she’s, and now we’re business partners, and we kind of came together around this concept of what it means to be nourished because I was thinking about it, you know, sort of like the word bloom to me meant something really powerful. This word nourished, you know, it’s obviously it calls to mind food, and, you know, I tried to be conscious about what I feed and put in my body and my children, and my, you know, my husband, like, I love to cook, that’s one of my great passions, and I love to think about food as this really not just like kind of another should, and I should eat the healthy foods that this magazine told me to eat, you know, but rather to, again, tap into intuition, and to say like, “What would really nourish me, not just my physical self, but just sort of would feel like comfort and love?”

Kerry Maiorca 35:46

And so, there was that piece of that, and then to me that the what we were talking about with yoga, that is the other place that I felt like the self-care practices that have become so important to me. You know, I was doing a lot of the same stuff for many years, like yoga, massage, you know, running or hiking or biking or being in nature or taking a nap or like, you know, all these different, reading a book, all these different self-care type practices were in my life, but I realized it was with a very different mindset, and you can do, you can go do yoga or you know, go get a pedicure, or go for a hike, and you could do it in a way that’s kind of checked out, like there’s a way to do those self-care things, but to be a little bit mentally checked out, and they don’t have the same impact.

Kerry Maiorca 36:41

You know, it’s about how we do them, and so, this idea to me is how can we create a feeling of nourishing our whole self, so of course, with good healthy food, and then with whatever our movement practices for me, it’s gentle and restorative yoga, that’s in my end meditation, but then also, like, “Where are the other pieces of our life that helped to nourish us?” You know, it’s, to me, a connection with nature, and being, you know, being active, moving, you know, being strong, and then also bringing in this sense of creativity, like, do we have things that are just for pure joy, not work, I’m a person who can get all wrapped up in my work, and then my, you know, families like responsibilities, and then I find I just feel depleted.

Kerry Maiorca 37:29

So, when I go and take time, at night, after everyone’s in bed, I’m done with everything, and I sit down at the piano, and I just play piano for a little bit or I write a poem, or I sit just in front of the fireplace with tea, and I just not for long, it doesn’t have to be an hour. It can be 20 minutes, you know, it can be five minutes if that’s all I have, but when I bring these nourishing practices in, and I think about them from a different perspective, where it’s not about, well, I should really get my hike in, or I should really get my yoga in. It feels really different, and you give yourself permission to trust that what you choose to do is going to be enough.

Kerry Maiorca 38:11

You know, I think a lot of times, there’s a lot wrapped up in why we do these things, like why we practice yoga or do exercise or eat healthfully. A lot of times it comes from this kind of self-bullying, self-shaming place of like, well, if I don’t, maybe my body will change in a way I don’t like, and you know, I have been there, I’ve been through a lot of struggles with that, body image and unhealthy disordered eating, and like plenty of things, you know, in my early 20s was a major struggle, and this mindset shift is what enables you to love yourself and to trust that loving and nourishing yourself, your whole self. That is always a good move. You’ll never gonna regret that decision.

Candice Wu 39:04

I love that. Loving your whole self is always a good move.

Kerry Maiorca 39:34

Hmmm.

Kerry Maiorca 39:39

Exactly. It’s like a punishment reward mentality, and it’s this threat or worry or yes, and it’s so you don’t you can’t even recognize it as that until you really dive in and see it. You know, because of course, we know, we only get one body, so, you want to make sure you keep it healthy. But I think that it’s really about trust. You know, it’s about trusting that you know better than whatever the latest thing has come out in any diet or exercise magazine. Like, there’s just those things change all the time, because they’re selling magazines. Experts are selling books, like, you know, I think it’s a great idea to not put your sort of spiritual development or sort of the whole self-development in the hands of someone who’s trying to sell you something, because…

Candice Wu 40:28

Oh, yeah.

Kerry Maiorca 40:29

…..you know better.

Candice Wu 40:32

Absolutely. I tried to ignore a lot of things and a lot of input now because, oh, it’s just so much.

Kerry Maiorca 40:40

Yeah.

Candice Wu 40:42

And it clouds my ability to hear myself.

Kerry Maiorca 40:46

Yes.

Candice Wu 40:46

I think that protection from what’s just being told to us and fed to us is really important, so we can hear ourselves.

Kerry Maiorca 40:56

Mm-hmm.

Candice Wu 40:57

Yeah, thank you for that reminder. We can trust what we know inside, and we know better than what someone else might say to us, or encourage us even sometimes, it’s not always the right thing, but we need to listen to ourselves.

Kerry Maiorca 41:16

Yeah, and it’s also like what you see, when you look around, and you know, those around you, you might feel you’re trying to keep up and kind of match what someone else is doing, and you know, as a person who’s the competitive athlete, I have a strong competitive drive, and so for me, just like what you’re saying, I really have been. It’s a practice of, you know, withdrawal of the senses. It’s this take coming away from all the input, advice, you know, the sort of keeping up with the, you know, this and this or that friend, or this or that person to say, what’s really happening right now, and to know that, when you tune into that, you are taking care of yourself in the best possible way, and yeah, that’s all. That’s really that’s what you need.

Candice Wu 42:04

Yeah. So, tell me more about your nourish life retreat that you spoke of with Laura.

Kerry Maiorca 42:12

yes, well, I am so excited about this. So, Laura is a culinary nutritionist. She’s the founder of golden root nutrition and she does, I’ve been so honored and privileged to be able to eat her amazing food. So, she really creates and brings this beautiful balance of food that is whole and healthy, and it’s simple but it’s delicious, and she teaches other people how to do that, and I have learned so much from her myself, you know, just even like how to approach this topic that can seem very overwhelming, you know, if you’re trying to eat healthfully for yourself, or if you are responsible for cooking for others, there’s so much input and advice, and it’s overwhelming.

Kerry Maiorca 43:02

So, the retreat is going to consist of me leading some gentle and restorative yoga practices a couple of times, and Laura will be teaching culinary nutrition classes, and then we’ll be eating the delicious food we make. And then, we also will be in Aspen, Colorado, which is a gorgeous place, a really, a place of great wild beauty, and we’re going in September, which is an incredible time to be there because trees are all changing colors, the weather is just delightful, and I think a lot of times two people have an image of what Aspen is, and there is this other side of Aspen that’s kind of there with the sort of glamorous side, but our retreat, we’re staying at a family-owned in right in town, and it’s just so warm and beautiful, and we’re really going to be trying to create this place where it’s, you bring your real self, your very real, imperfect, perfect self, and we come together for sometimes of yoga.

Kerry Maiorca 44:10

There’s going to be some option to explore meditation every day, and then we’ll have these classes where you can just think like, “What could I do with my, the way I nourish myself with food that could just make me feel more energized?” Laura has this class eating for awesome energy, you know, how could I see the way my food could just contribute to my well being, and be delicious and enjoyable, and wonderful, and then we’ll also have time to do some connection with nature. So, we’ll have a, there’s this beautiful riverfront path, and a John Denver sanctuary, which I’m a huge John Denver fan, this is beautiful place where you can go and kind of look at his lyrics and to sort of reflect on in nature, in this beautiful place, his legacy, and then we’ll also be going to the top of Aspen mountain and enjoying a hike there and just a moderate hike, nothing intense, but really more about the practice of being in nature and being quiet in nature.

Kerry Maiorca 45:18

And then the last component of it is, we’re going to have a creativity night. So, I am, I just was writing this piece, it’s going to come out in my next newsletter, it’s called, “Where is the joy?” And it’s about this rut, I started to find myself and where I was kind of going through my everyday life, and just, you know, doing all the things I had to do even doing my self-care practices, you know, I’m vigilant, like I have to get that in, it’s very important to my mental well-being as well as my physical, so, I don’t miss it. But it was like, okay, my self-care practices of yoga, meditation and, you know, exercise or hiking, and you know, doing my family obligation things, you know, getting my kids to where they need to go being preparing, you know, doing all the things around the house.

Kerry Maiorca 46:08

And then you know, doing my work, I actually work for the yoga studio, for my own new writing ventures, for the retreat, and then you know, the end of the date comes and it was just like, “Wow, that’s it. That’s all I got left.” And I started to feel the sense of, you know, you go through the day, do you feel like you’re doing your day? You know, do you feel like you’re just sort of checking everything off the list? And is there any room for joy? Is there any room for things that have no purpose, but to nourish you and help you feel more alive? And so we’ll have this one night, just an hour, where we will gather by the fireplace, and you’ll be invited to bring, a craft, if you have one or journal if you like to doodle or write or that kind of thing, or will have a very special creative activity that will do, will provide it, and it’s just going to be a very small little time to be kind of quiet, and to focus on doing something that, again, doesn’t have a purpose. It’s not about making an amazing work of art. It’s just about tapping into how creativity nourishes you. So, I’m just so excited. I am like over the moon excited about it, and Laura’s amazing. I’m so honored to work with her and yeah, just I can’t wait.

Candice Wu 47:30

I love that. I love this, and I can feel your excitement, and just reading the details, as well, and hearing you speak about it now, especially this creativity night. I love the aspect of doing that together.

Kerry Maiorca 47:50

Mm-hmm.

Candice Wu 47:51

And it sounds like the space is open, that it’s an individual or group, you know, with other people kind of experience, but just being together with that intention of creativity sounds really lovely, and that joy without a purpose. It’s so important in our lives, and for me, it was life-changing to bring in joy without a purpose.

Kerry Maiorca 48:17

Yes.

Candice Wu 48:17

It was like, “Wait, I can actually do that.” Right?

Kerry Maiorca 48:21

I don’t have to be. Yeah like, don’t wait for someone to tell you to do it. You know, when we’re kids, it’s so easy. It’s so easy to just choose things that are just joyful, and you know, like, what are you doing it for know, just for fun, and as adults, like, we don’t need to wait until someone says. Just go have fun or just do this thing because it’s enjoyable. It’s that we need to advocate for ourselves to do that.

Candice Wu 48:48

We do. We do. So, how can people join the retreat or get more information? Where can people find it?

Kerry Maiorca 48:58

We have our website at getnourished.life, and we have all the information about the retreat there, and we’re keeping it very small, we’re only having 12 spots. So, get to it, if there’s interest.

Candice Wu 49:16

Yeah.

Kerry Maiorca 49:17

Yeah, that’s where you can learn more and then can register, and I also just wanted to share about it, I’ve had the experience with retreats myself, this kind of like, abrupt shift from my perfect retreat self to my imperfect daily life self. You know, for me, going away from my family, being in control of my time not having work to do, and eating healthy, delicious food and like, you know, doing yoga and meditation, all these things that can feel like for those few days, I’m like perfect. You know, my idealized self, and I was going to Laura and I have been talking about this a lot about how we really want you to feel like when you’re on this retreat, you are your regular whole self with all of your pieces. You know, it’s about being real, and it’s about whatever is going on in your life is still there, and that’s okay, and you can still engage in these practices in a way that just feels manageable.

Kerry Maiorca 50:21

So, we’re not doing, you know, six hours of yoga a day, and we’re not doing you know, a three-hour-long, intense hike. It’s like we’re doing little mini doses of everything, and then we’re giving you practical tools so that when you go back to your daily life, our hope is you just will bring in, just a tiny bit, like a little bit of something. And so, when people feel called to kind of escape, you know, we’re really trying to make this retreat, not an escape. You know, it’s about being in your life, but just trying to bring in to invoke some different ways of being with yourself. So, we’re thinking about it as this just a part of your life that is this sort of like recharge, want to recharge the batteries, so you can go back to your real life, and let some of that nourished spirit infuse your day.

Candice Wu 51:15

Oh, I feel that very much. It’s like not this getaway escape from reality. It’s, let’s incorporate and let’s weave in, and also not make this an experience that’s undigestible, but one that’s simple.

Kerry Maiorca 51:30

Right.

Candice Wu 51:31

And reminds you of the simplicity being enough, and that you can just bring one little thing into your life and see what it does.

Kerry Maiorca 51:40

Yes.

Candice Wu 51:41

Beautiful.

Kerry Maiorca 51:43

Thank you.

Candice Wu 51:43

Thank you. I’m so excited for you, and everyone that’s gonna be on the retreat, and I also, I want to hear about your mentorship for yoga teachers.

Kerry Maiorca 51:54

Oh, thank you. Yes, I am so excited about this. I’ve been training teachers since 2011, and I love working with teachers, whether they’re brand new or now I also lead a gentle yoga teacher training, and so that’s for established teachers and helping them really explore this approach I’m talking about, this gentle, softer approach. So, I’ve been doing that for many years, and this winter, I just launched my very first online mentorship program for teachers of any level of experience, and we just wrapped up our first session, and it’s a combination of a monthly over four months, a monthly video conversation around a particular topic, and then I send out a follow up that kind of talks about what we, about the key points. It also includes a 30-minute mentorship call with me directly one-on-one, which I’ve so enjoyed those conversations, they’ve been so rich.

Kerry Maiorca 53:00

I just really like this. It’s, I kind of one of my mentors or mentees who was just in the program said, “This is like grad school for yoga teachers.” And I was like, “I love that!”

Candice Wu 53:10

Oh, cool!

Kerry Maiorca 53:11

I surveyed a bunch of my past trainees before, starting to see that, “What are the topics that you most need?” Like, what do you most need a refresher on and sort of more support, both from me and from the fellow people in the teacher circle mentorship group, and so, I kind of picked those topics and group them in ways that felt logical and reasonable, but so much of it is to me really about being intentional and mindful about what are you doing in your teaching and why, and then even more important, how is your practice, because all of us as teachers, the further along you go, you know, it’s common for people to lose sight of the importance of their practice, and to let their teacher self overtake their practitioner self, and you’ve got to be a practitioner first.

Kerry Maiorca 54:06

And so, the mentorship group is really about all of those things, and we have like a Google group that we sort of I offer, little sort of tips or reminders throughout the month between calls, and then others share and oh my gosh, are the people who are in this group, they are so wise. I mean, I just, I love it. So, it has been a total delight, and I’m going to run another one, starting September through December. So, I’ll be opening that up soon for registration, but I just love it. I love working with teachers to refine.

Candice Wu 54:41

That’s so great. Yeah, and you have so much wisdom to share, especially that part where you talked about teaching from your process, and from process rather than mastery. I just imagine that helps so many people because we’re all in process. We’re not done.

Kerry Maiorca 55:02

Yup.

Candice Wu 55:02

And that’s exactly whole and right…

Kerry Maiorca 55:06

Yeah.

Candice Wu 55:06

….right now. So, I just, I appreciate the space you’re creating, and so glad that you’re doing this.

Kerry Maiorca 55:15

Thank you, Candice.

Candice Wu 55:17

Well, and there’s one more bit that I’m so excited for the podcast is that you’re offering an experience for people to join into. This will be an extension of this episode, and this episode is going to be found at CandiceWu.com/kerry, KERRY, and so, you’re offering an experience or meditation or some sort of guided practice. Do you want to say more about it now or do you want to leave it as a surprise as it comes out?

Kerry Maiorca 55:51

I think I’d like to leave it as a surprise.

Candice Wu 55:54

Yeah.

Kerry Maiorca 55:55

As an exploration.

Candice Wu 55:56

That’s delightful. Yeah.

Kerry Maiorca 55:59

I love that you offer these. I love love love that you offer these, I think it’s just a great way. I think so much of this type of work can seem really just inaccessible or just sort of mystical or too out there, and like when you offer these experiential, you’re taking, I’ve listened to many of the ones that you’ve offered, I just think they’re lovely, and like then you take these ideas and concepts, and you immediately make them felt and embodied just like the name of your podcast. So, I really love that you do that, and I’m so excited to share. I can’t wait.

Candice Wu 56:35

Thank you. Thank you. I’m so excited to experience yours, I know that exactly. It’s like we talk about these concepts in our minds, and that is the way we can communicate across audio, across. Yeah, distance and time, and yet the real thing, the real practice itself is the being in it. So, I can’t wait to hear that and experience that with you. Is there anything else you want to share today?

Kerry Maiorca 57:06

I would like to thank you for having me and to thank you for your friendship and for all of the really amazing explorations that we’ve had together over the years. I just think I’m inspired by the work you do, and the way that you do it in a way that isn’t rigid or about kind of perfecting one thing and then delivering it again, that sort of robotic nature, but how, when I talk with you, I feel more inspired to be more fully who I am, and I love that about you, and so, I’m very grateful to you for inviting me to have this conversation in this way, and I look forward to our continued conversations and friendships, and to all the different ways that we’re going to keep learning more about ourselves, and that you know, and then hopefully, in the process, just inspire more people to do that and love themselves more.

Candice Wu 58:13

Thank you so much. That’s really touching, Kerry, and I have so appreciated our friendship and our companionship, and every time I talk to you, and we exchange our personal lives and what’s going on and just what we’re thinking about, I walk away with this feeling of, “Wow, Kerry notices one simple thing,” and that just makes such a huge difference to me, and then it gives me that feeling of noticing more of the little things in my life and recognizing how important those are and how that’s enough. Thank you. Thank you so much.

Kerry Maiorca 58:56

Thank you, Candice.

Candice Wu 58:57

I really appreciate you.

Kerry Maiorca 58:59

And I appreciate you, too, and your wonderful Embody Podcast.

Candice Wu 59:04

Thank you, and I do have one more question if it’s okay?

Kerry Maiorca 59:09

Yeah, of course.

Candice Wu 59:10

I would love for you to talk about how first graders are better at meditating than we are. I loved that article.

Kerry Maiorca 59:20

Did you like that?

Candice Wu 59:20

I did, It was so, like, delightful, and I just would love for you to share it with everyone listening today, if they haven’t read this or this now.

Kerry Maiorca 59:31

Oh, that was so much fun. I, so, when my daughter, my middle daughter was in first grade, I was invited to come to the class and, you know, share some yoga with the kids, and I did this, I’ve done this with, you know, all of my kids where I’ve gone to their school and just taught a little yoga until they got too embarrassed to have me come.

Kerry Maiorca 59:54

My son’s in seventh grade now, that is not cool now. But I will say my kids do sometimes grab our yoga pretzels partner deck and do partner Yoga together, and that makes me so happy. But back then, I was invited to come to her class, and I’ve been teaching them yoga and all these wonderful kind of kids’ yoga adaptations and techniques. But when I found the love the most was the relaxation at the end, and I would always do a guided visualization that just helped them relax and seeing their little faces like it was magic. And so, I thought, well, you know, why shouldn’t I just give them more of that if that’s what they want, and so, I decided I was going to also teach them meditation, and I was like, all right, this seems a little intimidating, you know, how are they going to do? Everyone associates first graders have been really wiggly and high energy, and they are.

Kerry Maiorca 1:00:51

So, we went out, and we were really fortunate to be able to do this in the garden. So, we went out to the garden at our school, and I said to them, you know, “Okay, so we’re going to do our yoga, and then at the end, let’s try some meditation.” And I had a bunch of kids just shoot their hands up into the air, like, I know about meditation, cross their legs, put their hands into a mudra, close their eyes, and then go all like really peaceful and serene, just like they owned it like they’ve been doing it forever.

Candice Wu 1:01:19

Oh.

Kerry Maiorca 1:01:19

And they were like, I’m so good at meditation. I do meditate. They were so excited about it, and so that just kind of tickled me a little and I thought, “Okay, well, let’s see how it goes.” When we got there, to that part of the practice, they all took their seats and he got quiet, and you know, these very wiggly bodies really became still. And, you know, I don’t know what was happening for them in their head. I don’t know how much the stuck with them or didn’t, but the reason I wrote that piece why first graders are better at meditation than you are is because they were 100% unintimidated to just try it, and they completely put themselves in it, for how many minutes 2 3 5 minutes that we did it. They just like embodied meditation, and without any, you know, any other sort of inner voice telling them that they’re not doing it right, they don’t know enough, is this really meditation, and that’s been my experience as an adult until, you know, up until the last, like 10 years of my practice. So, halfway through.

Kerry Maiorca 1:02:22

My experience of being a practitioner, was when I finally got comfortable with meditation, I just never felt like I could really do it, until finally one day, one teacher gave me permission, and she said, “You can’t do this wrong.” And I realized, like, “Oh, okay,” and that the kids really got. They weren’t worried about whether they were doing it, right. They just did it, and so, that’s what I would love for anyone who’s even curious if the word meditation is intimidating to you. Use mindfulness, use quiet, use stillness, like whatever word works, but I just think that if we could, even for two minutes or three minutes, five minutes, just sit or lie down. Be quiet, maybe close the eyes if that feels safe, but just take some time to go in. We would feel a change in a shift if we did it on a regular basis, and that’s what I just loved about those first graders. They had moxy man, they weren’t worried about me telling them if they’re doing it right. They just did it, and they were awesome.

Candice Wu 1:03:25

They were telling you how to do it. Like, this is what it is.

Kerry Maiorca 1:03:27

I know, they really were. They really were.

Candice Wu 1:03:32

And just you can’t do this wrong.

Kerry Maiorca 1:03:34

Yes.

Candice Wu 1:03:37

That’s a great place to leave, and close our podcast today. Thank you so much, Kerry. Can’t do this wrong.

Kerry Maiorca 1:03:45

Let’s all go out into our day with that. Thank you so much, Candice, this has been such a pleasure.

Candice Wu 1:03:50

Thank you.

Candice Wu 1:03:55

Thank you so much for tuning in today and joining us. I just got so many little nuggets of information and insight that can just help me feel into a more easeful space, the softening and simplicity, tuning into how first graders can be with their exuberance and joyful delight, playfulness, trust and just doing enough. Thanks so much, Kerry for sharing all these pieces of wisdom and doing this in your daily life, not in a perfect way but as a practice, and showing us that it can be messy, it can be in process, and we can continue to love and know ourselves more deeply each step of the way.

Candice Wu 1:04:49

I encourage you to check out Kerry’s work at KerryMaiorca.com and link to the show notes of this episode at CandiceWu.com/kerry, and Kerry is spelled KERRY. Be sure to check out carries meditation that just takes you exactly where you are, with your messy or imperfect perfect life. Just taking five minutes of your day to be with what is here and to tune into yourself. You don’t have to wait to have a perfect life or the perfect setup to do meditation. This simple guided meditation welcomes you just as you are right now, harnessing your distractions and to do is to create a more spacious and easeful you.

Candice Wu 1:05:33

Kerry’s meditation can be found later this week on the podcast or at CandiceWu.com/kerry, KERRY. If you’d like to check out other healing experientially or guided meditations, and topics and guests on the podcast, you can go to CandiceWu.com/podcast, and when you click on each episode, you’ll find that there are healing experiences that are connected with either the guests episode or the main topic of the week, not every week has experientials, but also you can check out the list of podcasts and you’ll find all the experientials there. If you’d like to stay in touch about future retreats, workshops, or receive self-love notes, and also the podcast information, you can sign up for the Embody Community at CandiceWu.com/embody.

Candice Wu 1:06:27

I’m so grateful to have you here and listening, and I always love to hear feedback, whether that’s criticism or questions, ways that the podcast touched you or connects with you, and I’ll just leave you with that feeling of simplicity and doing enough that Kerry so inspired today.

Candice Wu 1:06:46

So, as we close today, I invite you to take a few of those deep breaths and feel into any bit of slowness or slower pace at your body can access now.

Candice Wu 1:07:01

Thanks so much and see you next time on the Embody Podcast.

Introduction

Candice Wu 0:00

Do you feel like you have no time for meditation or it’s just too hard to sit down?

Kerry Maiorca’s meditation here just takes about five minutes and you can start anytime, you don’t have to wait.

This simple guided meditation welcomes you just as you are right now, in your imperfect perfect life.

Hello and welcome. You’re listening to the Embody Podcast, a show about remembering and embodying your true nature, inner wisdom, embodied healing, and self-love.

My name is Candice Wu, and I’m a holistic healing facilitator, intuitive coach, and artist, sharing my personal journey of vulnerability, offering meditations and guided healing support, and having co-creative conversations with healers and wellness practitioners from all over the world.

Kerry on the Podcast

Kerry was on the podcast this week, where we talked about the struggle with more and being a more person, feeling enough, and living a simple life, being enough as well as trusting that you know your truth, and giving yourself permission that you can’t do life wrong. You can find her full podcast episode at CandiceWu.com/kerry. That’s KERRY.

And now, it’s a pleasure to introduce Kerry Maiorca of Bloom Yoga Studio in Chicago, offering this beautiful meditation that just embraces this moment as it is. Here’s Kerry.

Begin with Kerry

Kerry Maiorca 1:41

Welcome, and thanks for joining me for this experiential.

I’d like to invite you to begin by asking yourself two simple questions.

First, are you willing to carve out the next five minutes or so, just for you?

And second, do you believe that five minutes is enough to make a difference? I certainly do, but don’t expect you to take my word for it. So, let’s try it.

I invite you to practice with me today, a meditation that I like to call, “If you can’t beat them, join them.”

This meditation doesn’t assume that you’re perfect or serene, in fact, it requires and depends on the fact that there are upsets, disruptions in your mind and life.

So, first, find a comfortable place to either sit, lie down or stand, and then with your eyes open, but just soft, look around you.

Whether you’re in your kitchen, in your office, hopefully not behind the wheel of a car. If you are, wait till later. Just look around and see.

Take in, observe.

Notice the colors, notice the shapes, the objects and just notice any thoughts that are sparked by seeing your everyday surroundings.

Then, if it’s comfortable for you, I invite you to close your eyes.

If not take a very soft and more introspective gaze, and then begin to notice the state of your thoughts, where your mind is at this moment, without trying to do anything at all to change it, and without judging.

Just take a few deeper, slower breaths to tune into your mind state. The pace and rhythm of the thoughts, and the thoughts themselves if you slow in-breath, and out-breath to observe.

Notice and Join

And then, notice if there are any prominent themes that keep coming back in your thoughts or notice if there is an energetic state that you’re observing in yourself, rather than trying to change or deny or pretend it’s different.

I invite you to practice joining, making friends with what currently is. For example, if you’re feeling rushed, you’re multitasking, thinking about all the things on your to-do list, I invite you to practice now. Honoring that and stepping back from it.

You can do this by taking a deep breath in and welcoming in the state you wish to create, and a slow breath out, acknowledging what you wish to let go of. For example, you could inhale spaciousness and ease, and exhale, business.

I invite you to think if there are one or two words that might represent what you wish to welcome in in this moment, and one or two words that you’d wish to let go of, and just practice very simply inhaling to welcome in and exhaling to release.

Remember, it’s totally normal for the thoughts to push their way forward, for your to-dos to keep coming back.

I invite you not to resist that, but to just know that you can do that later.

Now, is the time for you, just a few more breaths playing with this, welcoming in and letting go.

Closing

Now, slowly bring your attention back to your breathing, and it’s normal everyday state, just watching.

Observe the state of your mind and thoughts how you’re feeling, and then if the eyes are closed, I invite you to let them just gently blink back open.

Again, softly taking in the room around you, taking in your internal state and observing how it felt to take just a few minutes to slow down, to get a little quiet and to connect with your breath.

I invite you to use this tool anytime you wish in your normal, everyday imperfect perfect life. Thank you for practicing.

End

Candice Wu 8:29

I’m so glad you joined us today, with this meditation offered by Kerry Maiorca.

If you’d like to tune into more healing experientials or meditations, guided experiences by myself or my guests on the Embody Podcast, you can check it out at CandiceWu.com/podcast.

Thanks so much for jumping in, and see you next time on the Embody Podcast.

Candice Wu 0:00

Join me in this podcast with special guest, Rachel White, who’s known by her clients as the Amy Schumer of shamanic practitioners, where we explore the ease of moving energy versus moving the material world, Wu Wei, and aligning to flow, how spirituality is ingrained in life. As well as the question, “How would you do it differently if this life weren’t the beginning and the end?” She shares her experiences in the fourth and fifth dimension and of the multiverse.

Candice Wu 0:31

Hello, and welcome. You’re listening to the Embody Podcast, a show about remembering and embodying your true nature, inner wisdom, embodied healing, and self-love.

Candice Wu 0:44

My name is Candice Wu, and I’m a holistic healing facilitator, intuitive coach, and artist sharing my personal journey of vulnerability, offering meditations and guided healing support, and having co-creative conversations with healers and wellness practitioners from all over the world.

Candice Wu 1:06

Before we jump into the episode with Rachel, I’d like to invite you to a very special workshop that’s happening on June 15, 2019, in Rochester Hills, Michigan. And the workshop is called Being in Beauty. And it’s a systemic and Family Constellation workshop along with Somatic Experiencing and self-forgiveness.

Candice Wu 1:29

And in this workshop, we’ll connect with “What is beauty to you? Is it a deep sense of freedom and peace? Is it loving yourself and feeling like you are exactly who you are? Is it feeling intimacy and openness with loved ones or abundance and money in your life, in your career? Is it a sense of belonging or living the life you love, grace, flow, and harmony or feeling healthy and good in your own skin?”

Candice Wu 1:59

Whatever your sense of beauty is, in this workshop, we’ll illuminate any hidden, unconscious dynamics that can be a challenge on your journey. What I found is that when we’re tangled up with previous soul, or ancestral dynamics, or our personal historical traumas or overwhelming experiences, part of ourselves is still working that out and our bodies take on this form and become the language of what’s happening at a deeper level.

Candice Wu 2:34

We end up with disease, with emotional imbalances with pain or tension. And those are not the obstacle to ourselves, but the way. The obstacle is the way, towards who we are, and what our soul wants us to know and learn. So that we can give deep honoring and recognition to who we are.

Candice Wu 3:01

And so the process of Family or Systemic Constellations, and tuning into what the body showing us allows us to acknowledge what is and what is underneath all of those physical pains, those challenges with our bosses or the fighting that we might experience within us or in other relationships. And what unfolds is an organic healing and resolution of what was living itself through you and in your life, and frees you from that so you can be yourself in the ease that you are, in the loving that you are, and the beauty that you desire in your life.

Candice Wu 3:43

So if you want more information about this, you can find it at CandiceWu.com/bebeauty. And again, that’s on Saturday, June 15th, in Rochester Hills, Michigan. And I would love for you to join even if you’re from out of town or if you’re local. Feel free to connect with me if you’d like to know more or have any questions.

Candice Wu 4:07

So it’s really great to have Rachel White on the show. I learned about her through Gina Fitzpatrick at One Key Yoga, where she does some shamanic journeying and other workshops with spirit animals and Shadow Work. She specializes in demystifying the mystical and arming her clients with practical insights for the real world. She really takes what is spiritual and out there in you know, not our common understanding and brings it to life in our common understanding.

Candice Wu 4:37

But you’ll find in this episode, where she talks about all sorts of things that just are not on my daily radar, which I love and Rachel’s Chicago-based practice Totem.

Candice Wu 4:49

In this practice, she empowers her clients to take the reigns of their spiritual lives with tailored pragmatic shamanic support and informed insights. And she has more than 10 years of experience as a trained shaman, medium, and meditation coach, and is performed readings and consultations for more than 1,000 clients with lots and lots of group-guided meditation workshops.

Candice Wu 5:12

So this is a really fun and opening podcast. And I just encourage you to take it and see what lands with you and what inspires you even if it doesn’t make sense to your mind, which is what I love to do when I’m hearing about different parts of the universe and different ideas, how it energetically lands to me.

Candice Wu 5:31

And be sure to check out the Tarot reading at the very end where she gives me a two-part reading and one card for the audience, which is a really lovely message here.

Candice Wu 5:43

She also will share a shamanic journeying practice. So tune in for that later this week, as well as on her episode link at CandiceWu.com/rachelwhite. R, A, C, H, E, L and White, Rachel White. So without further ado, here is Rachel.

Candice Wu 6:05

Welcome, Rachel!

Rachel White 6:07

Thank you for having me, Candice! And thank you for your patience as I solve the modern challenges of technology. So –

Candice Wu 6:15

Right. That’s one of the things about recording from across distance, but thanks for jumping on. I wanted to just give a bit of an introduction of you. I love how your clients described you as the Amy Schumer of shamanic practitioners that just seems to fit so well. And I just feel all sorts of like, Alchemy energy around you. There’s something really juicy and magical about what you’re doing. And with your Chicago-based practice Totem, and the Tarot cards that you just recently created.

Rachel White 6:50

Wow!

Candice Wu 6:51

So – yeah,

Rachel White 6:52

Thank you! I think you know, you’re an alchemist as well, I think anytime Carl Jung, said, I’m sure am butchering this quote, but something like when two people come into contact with each other, and they have an experience that’s Alchemy, you know –

Candice Wu 7:10

Yes.

Rachel White 7:10

And the whole interplay between us on the material plane, but then also on the spiritual plane is really the marketplace of where this is at. It’s the intersection point. I love crossroads. I love –

Candice Wu 7:23

the marketplace.

Rachel White 7:24

Yeah, I love all of that.

Candice Wu 7:26

Yeah.

Rachel White 7:26

Working in Chicago, a place where I live and have always lived. You know, it’s a city and a lot of my friends that are practitioners, they, you know, understandably, trust me. I get it. I wish I was there they go and they live out in isolation, or they work at retreats, or they manage retreats and things that take them out to nature and far away from all of this.

Rachel White 7:49

And, you know, maybe that’ll be my gig one day, but being here in a city, it’s a big marketplace of spirit, of energy, of people.

Rachel White 8:00

So the fun part of Totem is meeting people that are curious spiritually, but they’re maybe not as committal as a monotheistic or even polytheistic traditional religion, would be able to satisfy them. And so they kind of come to me, and they’re professionals, for the most part, lawyers, doctors, business owners, designers, like, they’re people. And for me, that’s a lot of fun is to be at that crossroads with them and kind of help broker their meeting with, you know, their own spirit guides, to their own soul parts. It’s very exciting.

Candice Wu 8:36

That’s really exciting. So how do you support people in connecting with their soul guides or their spirit guides?

Rachel White 8:43

Well, it’s funny, I think the biggest work people do, and I know other – I’ve listened to some of the other podcasts. There seems to be a theme, even with like Yoga instructors, anyone who’s facilitating this kind of work, is them even just the act of them coming in, to meet and to do this opens up their energy, and it shifts their energy to even say, “Yeah, I’m going to spend X amount of money to get a Tarot card reading, it’s somewhat ridiculous if you look at it, on its face, right, or through a more pessimistic kind of point of view.

Rachel White 9:17

But they do it because they’re curious. And so there’s something there that activates, and then they come in. I think the biggest part of Taro in particular that I really love is – I call it a software.

Rachel White 9:32

It’s a tool that has an interface, right? The images, the numbers, and it’s a bit of a diagnostic, it tells us what’s going on, gives us a bit of a snapshot. And then that information is really useful to them. And even just the energy of them sitting there and me sitting there and that kind of opening up, people will become emotional, and they don’t understand why I apologize, and they’re crying. And they’re like, it’s nothing to do with what you’re saying. I don’t know, it’s because you’re tapping in, you’re checking in with yourself, it’s probably been a while like it has very little to do with me.

Candice Wu 10:05

Yeah.

Candice Wu 10:06

And that goes back to the Alchemy of –

Rachel White 10:08

it does.

Candice Wu 10:09

with them, and then leaning into their curiosity and just, that’s so powerful just to even be reminded of that, how, when we just want something or when we’re open to it, it’s already opening up –

Rachel White 10:23

Yes.

Candice Wu 10:23

already.

Rachel White 10:24

Yeah. And also Tarot is, you know, in, I think in the hands of an adult practitioner, someone who’s responsible and ethical. It’s very affirming. You know, we believe in fate to some degree, but there’s also a lot of free will. And so it’s a snapshot, you get to decide if you want to participate in that. Do you want to maybe accelerate these positive things and maybe mitigate the negative? And maybe that will change the snapshot six months to a year from now versus something that’s fatalistic or scary. Or, you know, all the old conjures, if you will, the old images of like a fortune teller. Right?

Candice Wu 11:03

Right.

Rachel White 11:05

That’s not its highest use at all.

Candice Wu 11:07

The fear images.

Rachel White 11:08

Yes.

Candice Wu 11:10

Yeah. So you’re bringing it to this level of awareness, you’re supporting someone in bringing it to a level of awareness in a clear way that they can really apply to their lives and make choice.

Rachel White 11:22

Yeah, it should be, you know, really spiritual and kind of profound. But it doesn’t mean that that’s mutually exclusive with pragmatism or usefulness, it should be useful.

Rachel White 11:33

And I think for a long time, spirituality, especially in like the card reading or energy practitioner, a lot of these modalities, spirituality was seen as it should be separate from and divorced from the material world, in things like, money or a job, those are low vibration, you know, and they are, but we’re here for a reason. So I like the idea of the interplay or the marketplace, like all of these things have value. And as Shakespeare said, “Nothing is good nor bad, but thinking makes it so.”

Rachel White 12:03

Right? So –

Candice Wu 12:05

Exactly.

Rachel White 12:05

Yeah.

Candice Wu 12:06

We’re here to experience it, we have this body to experience, our spiritual self. So why would we deny it?

Rachel White 12:13

Absolutely, yeah. And so, I don’t need to talk to someone 100% of the time about something on the Astral plane, you know? If that comes up, and that seems dominant, that’s great. But if it’s about their, you know, narcissistic bosses, gaslighting them, corporate job that matters too because there’s an energy component to that it’s a real ecosystem.

Rachel White 12:36

Sometimes, we’ll have a shamanic journey, like a guided meditation session. And someone who’s never experienced anything supernatural, anything spiritual. That’s how they would describe themselves, right? Coming into it, we’ll meet some kind of a D-Day and talk about it. And I’ll be able to say, “Oh, yeah, that’s such and such. And this is what that means. And did this pop-up?” And it blows their mind. They’ve had a bit of an adventure in a 30-minute meditation, in a Yoga space in the city of Chicago, they went somewhere different, right?

Candice Wu 13:10

That’s so exciting.

Rachel White 13:12

It’s awesome!

Candice Wu 13:12

you can help them navigate that.

Rachel White 13:15

Yeah, well, this stuff is fun. You know, I think it’s funny to people when they find out because I have a job in corporate America. And they’ll say, “How do you manage these two very different things?” I’ll say that is very little that’s different about them. And if I had to, if I had to label one is being more real than the other, you know, Totem. And my spiritual consultancy is real. Because when you move energy, the other things change. If you try to move the material at the expense of energy, very little changes, and you find yourself stuck in a loop.

Candice Wu 13:49

It’s so much harder,

Rachel White 13:51

so much harder.

Candice Wu 13:52

And I think that’s where we’ve come up with the idea that we have to work really hard to achieve something.

Rachel White 13:56

Yes!

Candice Wu 13:57

Because we’re kind of stuck in the material, that earthly concreteness, where if we’re moving the energy, it can come so easy. So that –

Rachel White 14:06

Well, there’s –

Candice Wu 14:06

you’re doing that.

Rachel White 14:07

We’re a very unbalanced society in America, particular things; it’s either everything’s material and everything’s secular at the expense of anything. You know, if I can’t see it, touch it, now I’d understand it doesn’t exist. Or the, you know, I think sometimes the quote energy community has done a disservice by saying, “Well, if you do any of those things, or if you eat meat, or if you drink alcohol, or if you like money, you’re not spiritual.” And –

Rachel White 14:33

Yeah, it’s a lot of extremes. I blame the Puritans really, you know. They started that whole thing.

Candice Wu 14:42

Well, we were so all or nothing, you know?

Rachel White 14:44

Totally!

Candice Wu 14:45

The way that –

Rachel White 14:46

Yeah.

Candice Wu 14:46

It’s just, it’s like the disease. Well, I think it’s just going back to our development –

Rachel White 14:52

Yup.

Candice Wu 14:52

in humans, you know?

Rachel White 14:54

Absolutely!

Candice Wu 14:54

seeing it as like a toddler sees, good and bad.

Rachel White 14:57

Yes. It’s funny, you bring that up? Are you familiar with Doreen Virtue?

Candice Wu 15:02

Yeah.

Rachel White 15:03

So are you aware of her recent evolution, spiritually?

Candice Wu 15:08

No. What is that?

Rachel White 15:09

Okay, so Doreen Virtue is very famous for being an incredible creator of books and Tarot decks and Oracle decks. And she was probably one of the most, what’s the term, just productive authors and creators of New Age materials. Her stuff always had this sort of angelic fairy, you know, really cute, really pretty vibe to it. And she was very into like, flower medicine and all of that. She’s recently I think, in the last year or so she, I think she described it as she had an experience with something negative. And she has gone the opposite direction were everything she was doing before, she now says is evil. Even looking at the stars and praying to them, and that, you know, Jesus Christ is the one and only way. And it’s a real pivot. To put it gently.

Candice Wu 15:58

Wait, now she’s saying this is the only way? –

Rachel White 16:02

Absolutely!

Candice Wu 16:02

She had with evil?

Rachel White 16:04

It was evil. And so –

Candice Wu 16:05

I don’t understand?

Rachel White 16:07

Well, so, my friends always knew this about me, because I always had an issue with her cute stuff. And I owned it.

Candice Wu 16:13

Yeah.

Rachel White 16:14

I had several of the decks, they’re really pretty, I’ve had a few of her books, have read them, I took what I liked from it, I left the rest. But I always found her idea that there was nothing negative or nothing challenging or nothing lower vibration, you know, there’s no shadow to it, as I hear it, and I, she denied it. And I always say to people, that’s not really how that works. And it does exist, and you don’t have to be fearful of it. But you know, there’s some complex Yin Yang in the universe, right?

Rachel White 16:41

So she has this brush up with something that might be described as negative it could have been, and she swung in the other direction. It’s like a very fearful response. And it’s a total 180. And my friends saw that this was happening and emailed me. And I was like, it’s unsurprising, she didn’t build it from the basement to the attic.

Rachel White 17:02

I have a lot of respect for her I think what she did was great. But when it’s not built on a foundation that integrates, what we were just talking about, it’s very one dimensional, it’s not a strong structure, you know, and you only want to see the light at the expense of acknowledging darkness, then, you know, when you come into contact with something that could be described as dark or negative for shadow, you know, that’s a bit of a personal Apocalypse, if you will, like that’s a challenge to your thinking in a way where the structure just can’t hold. So –

Candice Wu 17:35

Yeah, exactly like it shakes your entire idea of what was what is?

Rachel White 17:42

It does. So yeah, one of the big things that we try to do when we have workshops, or even just one on one when I’m meeting with clients is if something comes up and they talk about it, just not assigning it good or bad, necessarily as a value, and getting away from some of that and looking at it as information, but also being really big about boundaries, energetic and otherwise. Because if you know, let’s say someone is an energy vampire, right, in the office, you’re allowed to have boundaries, you’re allowed to take care of yourself, but you don’t have to be scared. And you don’t have to worry.

Rachel White 18:15

Yeah, so that was kind of an interesting thing that came up in our community in the last year or so. And –

Candice Wu 18:23

That’s interesting. And, you know, I want to just apply that sort of like not right and wrong here too. Because whatever her journey is, I don’t really know her that well, but I do know, like her previous stuff that you’re talking about. –

Rachel White 18:35

Yeah.

Candice Wu 18:36

To decks, as well. And whatever her journey is, she’s swinging to the other side, maybe to get a feel for it or whatever. And it’s, I think it’s hard to see when you’re in it, so deep. You know, she just –

Rachel White 18:51

Well, you can tell she’s sincere.

Candice Wu 18:53

Yeah.

Rachel White 18:54

And she means it, and she feels a real obligation to inform and that I think, comes from a really sincere place. And it’s funny, my friend, Roger, he’s an energy practitioner. He’s a Chi Gong practitioner and all of the above. He said, well, you know, to her credit, like she’s really owning where she’s at. And she’s being really transparent about her process that I’d absolutely agree with that as well. I just, I think you know, what Totem offers people is a space that’s we’re agnostic, truly. Like, if you want to come in and you want to talk about X, Y, or Z we can. And –

Candice Wu 19:31

Yeah.

Rachel White 19:32

Just because I think there’s not a lot of space for someone who’s curious, but non-committal, and who doesn’t want to be judged.

Rachel White 19:39

I remember teaching meditation at a studio in the West Loop. And they were mortified that I talked about how I was going to leave and go drink some Japanese whiskey. And I’m like, that’s just we can’t believe that. Number one, you do that, you desecrate your temple that way or that you’d say that around people but you. You teach. And I was like, “Well, I think Japanese whiskey is good for me and for my soul. So that said –

Candice Wu 20:03

Do you like it?

Rachel White 20:04

I do.

Candice Wu 20:06

That free choice. Well –

Rachel White 20:08

Yeah.

Candice Wu 20:08

So this leads me to the question, “How do you describe spirituality?”

Rachel White 20:13

Um, I really think that we’re all very spiritual. I view it as a science that just hasn’t developed yet. I think we’re going to get a lot more answers about our spiritual selves as individuals and as a whole. Do you know? I’m a big fan of the whole debate with Elon Musk, and everybody talking about whether or not this is a simulation. You know, if you look at –

Candice Wu 20:37

Yeah.

Rachel White 20:38

Yeah. If you look at Westworld, or, you know, the OA or some of these popular shows, there’s this premise that a lot of what we’re saying is, you know, who knows that this is the only reality or what is reality? And that creates a whole new opening for spirituality as a more evolved science, perhaps, or science that we’ve lost some knowledge of, at some point.

Rachel White 21:04

Yeah. And the OA when they do this movement with their body to jump dimensions, I don’t know if you’ve seen it, but –

Candice Wu 21:11

No.

Rachel White 21:12

It’s like Reiki and Tai Chi had a baby. And they do these five movements, and they can jump from one dimension to another, and I’m watching and I’m like, does anyone are also aware of the fact that, that’s exactly what they’re doing? Like, these are things that we do that we think are sort of silly, or people might look down on them as being very crunchy or granola and, you know, what if we could start teleporting? Right?

Candice Wu 21:35

Right.

Rachel White 21:36

So that’s the way I viewed spirituality is, it’s ingrained in everything. I think every day is spiritual. I think everything and every person has energy. And it’s at once both more simplistic, and like, basic, and at the same time, incredibly advanced. So it gets, it’s almost impossible to explain it somewhere in the middle. It’s clouds and dirt. Right?

Candice Wu 21:59

Well, it’s so almost office and I think when you say it’s ingrained in everything, what is ingrained in everything? Like what is it?

Rachel White 22:08

Yeah.

Candice Wu 22:10

Exactly right? But your Shamanism –

Rachel White 22:13

Yeah, Shamanism permits the individual experience of the Divine. So for as many human beings as there are, there is a universe and an experience of spirituality or the divine. And they’re not mutually exclusive. So shamanism has always been a fan of the multiverse.

Rachel White 22:31

So for me, spirituality is frankly, you know, being a shaman, it’s a little more literal, honestly, when I quote journey, I see things in my mind’s eye. I have conversations, a lot of times it takes the shape or role of an animal, for instance. For other people, it’s feeling things kinetically or it’s, you know, praying or going to church.

Rachel White 22:55

I mean, all of those things matter. But I think you can have a spiritual practice just in the mundane as well, like, I made a flower arrangement yesterday because I’m having a photoshoot tomorrow. To me, there’s a spiritual quality of making a flower arrangement that felt like a ritual, you know, I didn’t have any specific.

Candice Wu 23:13

Yeah.

Rachel White 23:15

So I like that about Shamanism that everybody can come in with different things and everybody can leave with different things. And it doesn’t matter how it works. It just matters that it works.

Candice Wu 23:26

Yeah, I love that. It’s like the experience that we’re taking away or that we’re going to have.

Rachel White 23:31

Yeah.

Candice Wu 23:33

So say what about the multiverse?

Rachel White 23:36

Well, yeah.

Candice Wu 23:39

Like, now we’re going to dive into dimensions.

Rachel White 23:42

I love it. So I am, it’s very funny, I was watching Westworld after I had an experience. So not this past year, the year before. So 2017, Thanksgiving, I had a spontaneous experience, you know, perhaps I’ve noted what caused it might be just a release of the naturally occurring TMT in the body. But I was in a fourth or fifth-dimensional perspective. And it happened really spontaneously. I was in Florida –

Candice Wu 24:14

Wait. How did you know you are in the fourth or fifth dimension perspective?

Rachel White 24:20

I was having suddenly a conversation with God that was not verbal. So to call it a conversation is really, you know, simplest, I’m oversimplifying. And it was like God, like with a capital G. And it was agonizing. And I was sharing my own life. Oh, yeah. It’s human should not do this regularly. It was a hall of fame.

Rachel White 24:43

And he showed me how absolutely wasteful I was being in my life and how inconsequential and unimportant the things where there’s spending my time on. Now, Totem had already existed. I had already been a shaman. I hadn’t done it for about a year or so. And it was the way I was shown it almost made my life look like a 2d board game or something where you’re not moving. Oh, yeah –

Candice Wu 25:10

You’re not moving.

Rachel White 25:11

Compressed everything. Yeah. And it’s just, I saw I came out of this, whatever it was, a seizure, who knows? I mean, it was hilarious when it happened. I’m sitting on the floor of a bathroom on vacation in Florida going, “Oh, my God, like I have a tumor or something. Like I just had a stroke.”

Candice Wu 25:28

Oh, my God!

Rachel White 25:29

go to the hospital, we’re gonna find it like this is when I get the diagnosis, right? And I was like, none of that probably even happen. I’m probably asleep somewhere in a hospital bed and something happened. And I’m going to figure it out. Or, you know, and I had that whole thing. And I’m sitting there and sitting there. And then I heard like, my text message ring on my phone. And I was like, “Oh, no. Okay, I’m here.”

Candice Wu 25:49

Yeah.

Rachel White 25:51

Yeah, I couldn’t shake it. And my vibration got really high after this for about four or five months and you know, lost weight and was very Rust Cohle, HBO, True Detective, kind of like saying things about the multiverse, and I’m brain theory.

Rachel White 26:07

I’m sure I was a blast to be around. It’s super fun for everybody. But that experience, like really drove home like, “Oh, yeah, well, that’s certainly a different perspective.” And my human life, like my sentience here in this dimension, felt very insignificant. And that was a little bit of a game changer for me.

Rachel White 26:31

I started Totem back out of curiosity, mainly, like I wanted to have contact with clients, I wanted to figure out why I was given that perspective for that millisecond.

Rachel White 26:43

Since then, I’ve had dreams about traveling dimensions and bending dimensions and what that means and was watching Westworld and realized, like, “Oh, God, like all these shows on TV or about this now.” The idea that they’re many worlds, and –

Candice Wu 27:01

Yeah.

Rachel White 27:01

they’ve been created, they have the same narratives or characters or yeah, it’s very weird.

Candice Wu 27:09

Like magicians?

Rachel White 27:11

Like magicians –

Candice Wu 27:12

Have you seen it?

Rachel White 27:13

No, I haven’t. But I have to tell you, Netflix continues to recommend it assertively to me.

Candice Wu 27:19

Yeah.

Rachel White 27:20

It is something I need to watch?

Candice Wu 27:21

It’s really fun right, but it’s bringing –

Rachel White 27:24

That would be next.

Candice Wu 27:25

The dimensions and time travel is part of that. But yeah, –

Rachel White 27:31

Have you had any of those experiences like what they might refer to as the Mandela effect or something where you remember something, “wrong?” So in other words, you have a very specific memory, but other people remember it differently?

Candice Wu 27:45

I can’t say. Well, I can’t say that I’ve had that experience where it’s been adamantly wrong. Like, where –

Rachel White 27:53

Yeah.

Candice Wu 27:53

I felt like, I’m adamant that this is happening. And they’re adamant that it’s happened another way where it couldn’t be left up to just human error?

Rachel White 28:02

Right.

Candice Wu 28:02

I feel like, maybe I’ve just had one, I don’t know, human experiences like that. I don’t feel like I’ve had, I don’t know, bending dimension experiments, experiences or what you’re talking about. I’ve certainly come in contact with my deepest being, my inner being or whatever part of me is my spirit and soul. But I really don’t even know how to comprehend exactly like this fourth, fifth dimension experience.

Rachel White 28:31

Yeah, well, it’s fairly incomprehensible and like I said: not recommended, it was unpleasant. Shamanic journeying is much more pleasant, much more controlled, and relaxing. And you know, you get to talk to like a squirrel or a bird. And that’s always really nice, but –

Candice Wu 28:51

Sounds very pleasant right?

Rachel White 28:54

Yeah. Stephen Hawking, the last paper he worked on, last study, before he died, which was published after his death was about the multiverse. And that infinite universes exist. And in fact, all of the rules of physics don’t exist, really, that they do, but they’re not hard and fast. And he put a lot of detail around it. So there’s a lot of scientific and creative minds converging on this concept, which I find really fascinating. Yeah.

Candice Wu 29:27

Yeah. So when you contextualize this back into our daily lives –

Rachel White 29:32

Yes.

Candice Wu 29:33

What does that bring you?

Rachel White 29:35

Well, there are a few things, one of them and I could be wrong, you know? We’re still at the beginning stages of like collecting, kind of anecdotal information about this stuff. But I’ve had a lot of dreams this year about friends of mine who are practitioners in a dimension that’s a lot easier than this one, where there are a lot happier, and they don’t have the challenges that they have in this reality. And there’s a lot of specifics around it, and I’ll talk to them about it.

Rachel White 30:05

And a good friend of mine, he’s an energy worker, he said, “Well, I’ve read these works of this one gentleman, he said that the dimension where our consciousness is rooted right now as the hardest, lowest vibration one.” And we come here, to really kind of like slog it out, you know, like charcoal under pressure becoming a diamond or something more precious or stronger, whatever that might be. I think there’s some truth to that.

Rachel White 30:32

So a lot of our challenges here in daily life. Number one, we may have helped design them, we may have thought we needed to go through that, you know, Caroline Myss in Sacred Contracts, talks about a lot of that. That, we’re the co-authors of our lives. So accountability, responsibility, acceptance, non-attachment, those are things that are important.

Candice Wu 30:55

And I see that. Yeah, like I see that on a larger scale of our entire life.

Rachel White 31:01

Yeah.

Candice Wu 31:02

We’ve designed this in a more general, from before we came kind of experience. But then we’re also co-authoring and co-creating right in the moment, along with that past, previous intention.

Rachel White 31:16

Absolutely. And a lot of it is about empowering and taking control. And it’s also about putting things in perspective. So if there’s this great big multiverse, and we’re here to learn, or we’re here for whatever reasons we’re here for, maybe it’s the, you know, Reptilian Elite, have put us here to, you know, do work for them.

Rachel White 31:36

I have friends who believe that. That’s the thing that’s out there. Google it. Go on Twitter.

Candice Wu 31:41

What is it? The Reptilian what?

Rachel White 31:42

The Reptilian race that runs the world. The David Icke stuff? Are you not? Yeah –

Candice Wu 31:48

No.

Rachel White 31:48

We all – Sorry.

Candice Wu 31:52

I think it’s fascinating, but I don’t know, there’s so much to take in about their sets out there.

Rachel White 31:58

I consume all of it. I’m a big content consumer.

Candice Wu 32:01

Great. So you can give us the two cents here. Yeah.

Rachel White 32:06

Yeah. Like, regardless of any of that, I think what the multiverse does for us spiritually here in a Shamanic practice is it tells us that this isn’t it.

Rachel White 32:17

So how would you do things differently? If this life wasn’t the beginning and the end? Or what would you want to do differently? For me, you know, I would be a lot less attached to things like getting a kind of car that I want, or, you know, a home at the end of a cul de sac, in a suburb that I take a train to and from every day to go to a job that’s stable, second pay mortgage, you know, all those things, which by the way, never really appealed to me, for obvious reasons.

Rachel White 32:47

But you know, is that really how you want to spend your time in this dimension? It’s a way of putting things in a new perspective, a broader one. And also, when things don’t go well, here, let’s say your job’s really hard, you got a new boss, that doesn’t respect you. You know, maybe this is your opportunity to get out of that. Why is that seen as a thing that’s happening to you? That’s negative. You know, why are you assuming a victim stance in that? Maybe you need to be moving on to bigger and better things, right?

Candice Wu 33:22

Yeah.

Rachel White 33:23

Yeah.

Candice Wu 33:24

It’s to bring in the possibility and open the imagination to design your life.

Rachel White 33:30

Yes. And there’s a big vein and all of this around a concept called Wu Wei. I don’t know if you’ve heard that before.

Candice Wu 33:39

Yes, I have.

Rachel White 33:40

Yeah, it’s the –

Candice Wu 33:41

My last name is Wu. So it’s like, what is that?

Rachel White 33:45

Well, and there’s been this amazing conflicts with this. I just naturally kind of, like have a lot of that jam in me for some reason, I’ll be like, “Nope, I’m going to go meditate instead of fixed the emergency.” And it ends up working itself out.

Candice Wu 33:59

Yeah. We talk more about Wu Wei here for people who are listening?

Rachel White 34:02

Of course, yeah. It’s a non-activity, but appropriately so that you’re within the flow in the universe. So you’re not trying to control or manipulate, you’re simply doing. It’s a very Dao concept.

Rachel White 34:22

And the idea is that you’re in these invisible rivers that carry you, when you’re in Wu Wei, Serendipity and Confluence, just move you along with momentum.

Candice Wu 34:34

I love how you’re describing this.

Rachel White 34:36

Well, thank you. I have a lot of friends who know a lot about it. So my friend, Roger, started a consultancy called Find Your Wu Wei. I realized when he started that, my friend and his Feng Shui consultant had taught me that word. And I told her about it, the week or so that I told her about it, she reached out to this woman who has a Wu Wei school of Reiki in the Berkeley area and is trying to organize getting together for tea with someone and they said, “What about the Wu Wei temple?” Like tea room? All of this happened within like a day or two of each other? So even the words Wu Wei have Wu Wei? It was? It was bizarre.

Candice Wu 35:20

It lives within.

Rachel White 35:21

It does. She’s lived in that area her whole life. She never heard of any of that before that exact moment. So yeah, it’s the idea that you know, there are these currents, and you can get into the current and you look for signposts almost in a very Alice in Wonderland kind of way. And if you participate spiritually, but you practice non-attachment, while you’re participating, you can get into a current and really get taken somewhere wonderful. And not have to fight, not have to work so hard.

Candice Wu 35:53

You know all this conversation is reminding me of the book by James Redfield of the Celestine Prophecy.

Rachel White 36:00

It’s amazing. Yup.

Candice Wu 36:02

Right. I love it. It’s like such a classic. It’s pretty old now. But getting into the invisible rivers, the currents, he talks about finding your alignment of your true energy. And then what you were saying about some friends that are in another dimension, in reality, at the end of the book, he talks about that, you know, if you’re listening and you haven’t read this book, it’s sort of an adventure story, like, The Da Vinci Code-ish in a way, but it’s giving these insights that you can apply to real life. And at the end, I think, tell me if I’m remembering this incorrectly, Rachel, but there’s this experience of transcending to another consciousness, where the ones that are in a different consciousness don’t see you even, you don’t see each other.

Rachel White 36:53

Yes.

Candice Wu 36:53

But you are existing –

Rachel White 36:54

Yeah.

Candice Wu 36:55

somewhere plane –

Rachel White 36:56

Plane.

Candice Wu 36:57

Yeah.

Rachel White 36:57

Yeah. Almost like getting ruptured.

Candice Wu 37:00

Yes. Right.

Rachel White 37:02

Yeah. And, you know, there are all kinds of theories around that stuff. And it’s just endlessly fascinating to me. And, you know, my friends who call me if they haven’t heard from me for a few days, and one of them said, “I just want to make sure that you didn’t slip into another dimension. Because if it happens to anybody, it’s going to happen to you.”

Candice Wu 37:23

Oh my gosh, has it happened to one of your friends? Like, do you –

Rachel White 37:27

No. Everybody’s here that I know of.

Rachel White 37:30

Yeah, but I had the weirdest experience. And it’s such a bizarre example.

Rachel White 37:35

So I have a large German Shepherd. I brought him back from Germany. It’s a long story. It was definitely a Shamanic adventure, right? I have a black dog, –

Rachel White 37:56

So it’s a very specific memory of walking him and there was a Catholic charity and they had this soup kitchen line was out and someone was being arrested and it agitated my dog, side across the street and go to the doctor, I was late to the doctor to call them, all this stuff, right.

Candice Wu 38:06

Yeah.

Rachel White 38:10

So they called in a prescription for me that day. I talked to a couple of people along the walk on the way there and on the way home and then at the pharmacy filling a prescription and then came home. A couple of months later I get sick with the thing. You know, being a shotgun that means wounded healer, we get sick a lot, guys, by the way. And even though I know it’s energetic, I take the antibiotics just in case. So I go into my medicine cabinet to get out the medicine that I know I have because I had that unusual day. It’s not there.

Rachel White 38:38

Call the pharmacy they have no record of it. Like this is bizarre. I must have been like in a fugue state or I’m confusing it, right? Call the doctor’s office, no record of my visit that day. And I’m thinking oh my god, this is because I’m sick. I must have a fever. I’m like not remembering things right.

Rachel White 38:54

So I mentioned it to my boyfriend. He goes, “No, I remember that day. You called me.” And then I called one of my other friends. And when I talked to a different friend that I spoke with in the pharmacy getting the prescription, she goes, “Yeah, no, it was on this day. I remember because we had this emergency at work.” And this is, and it all lines up with my memory. But –

Candice Wu 39:12

Yeah.

Rachel White 39:12

This material plane had no record of it anywhere. So that was my weird little moment, where I was like, “Uh-oh.”

Candice Wu 39:22

Is this the Mandela moment that you were talking about?

Rachel White 39:24

It is. Yes, of a distinct memory. But other people I’d spoken to have that exact memory of the event that I have. It’s the outside world, outside of our little circle has no record of it.

Candice Wu 39:24

Oh, that is so interesting.

Rachel White 39:40

Yep. All for bladder infection.

Candice Wu 39:43

Okay.

Rachel White 39:43

So it wasn’t the sexiest moment. Yeah.

Candice Wu 39:49

So with all this Wu Wei, this experience of being carried to where you need to be and all the synchronicities happening to catalyze that and be supporting that, what’s going on in your life right now? Do you –

Rachel White 40:05

Well, it’s –

Candice Wu 40:05

have that an experience of that right now?

Rachel White 40:08

Yes. I mean, basically, every day, there are days that are slower, a little lower vibration than others. And those times can kick up a bit. I would say it’s kicked up lately, and I’ve had, you know, a lot of dreams. And I try and keep a dream journal because I get, in my opinion, a lot of information for my subconscious. So if there’s something in a dream that I can go do in real life.

Rachel White 40:33

So for instance, if I have a dream about the Lincoln Park Zoo, and it feels like a big dream, like a Shamanic dream, I will try to go to the zoo. And I don’t know why. I don’t know what’s there. I don’t know how that works out. It may have nothing to do with it. But the act of me leaving the house, for instance, triggers a series of events.

Rachel White 40:51

So trying to listen to intuition, not at the expense of logic, like never putting myself in harm or anything like that. But listening to intuition and really going with it.

Rachel White 41:02

You know, it’s really funny on Thanksgiving, I was at a friend’s Yoga studio, and they were having a little Thanksgiving celebration. And someone came up to me and said, “So what are you going to be up to like, what’s the next year for you?” And I said, “Well, I think I’m gonna meet, like my person.” And they were like, “Oh, are you dating?” I said, “No, I just think so.”

Candice Wu 41:19

Yeah.

Rachel White 41:20

And I heard myself say it at the same time everybody else did. Like it was news to me too. And, you know, within a week or so I had met someone that I’m now still dating, who’s very different. And so even the act of hearing myself say that, and I wasn’t attached to that, there wasn’t a story I had to tell myself. It just happened spontaneously. So I said, “Oh, maybe I should do that.” And I did it.

Candice Wu 41:45

I love it. Well, yeah, just saying, like, listen to what comes out of your mouth. Because it’s being created. It’s emerging into awareness. And then –

Rachel White 41:54

Yeah.

Candice Wu 41:55

Here it is.

Rachel White 41:56

We’re all mediums. You know, all of us feel the energy, we all channel something, right? Listening to that more often than not, and not questioning it, not trying to apply the rational mind to it all the time, you’ll start to see exponential dividends on that behavior, on participating and going okay. Well, let’s see. Let’s see what that adventure has.

Rachel White 42:19

I would also say that there’s a lot going on right now, for me, and I don’t know if you’ve experienced this, but almost all of my friends that are energy workers, and myself included are at this really critical point where it’s, “Do we take the plunge? Do we do the spiritual stuff and we give up the day job? Or do we give up the space where we do these things? And we do it more in a mobile way?” Or, there’s just, it seems everyone I know, is at that place of in the next month or so making that decision. And I think that there’s some Wu Wei to that as well because we all want to do this full time. But that requires that we practice some degree of release.

Candice Wu 43:00

Yeah.

Rachel White 43:01

Right. And that’s very scary to the rational mind.

Candice Wu 43:03

Absolutely.

Candice Wu 43:05

Yeah. I’m not going through that specific form of it right now. Because this is my full time. And –

Rachel White 43:12

Yeah.

Candice Wu 43:13

I did do that couple of years back. And it’s a big leap. And at the same time, right now, actually, like, couple weeks ago, I had this experience in a Satsang, you know, like a spiritual service, where I just had something in me, asked myself, “Are you really in this, Candice? Are you really going to surrender? Are you really taking your spiritual path?”

Candice Wu 43:40

And I felt called to drop, some of, I can’t even name what I was dropping, but letting go of some ways of the ordinary world and just embracing that, whatever things we’re going to guide me to, I was going to follow. And that wouldn’t be a gamble, a “normal kind of path,” and that my life already didn’t look normal. But here, I’m taking the next level. And whatever that looks like, –

Rachel White 44:13

It’s a harder path. You know, I had a dream where my very good friend answers the phone, a landline in the kitchen. And her mother’s in the other room, and she’s talking to someone and they go, “Do you think that Rachel is a candidate for the Enhanced Consciousness package?” And she said, “Oh, absolutely!” Like I had listed her as a reference for an Enhanced Consciousness package. And she walked them through some of the ways, you know, that I was qualified for it.

Rachel White 44:39

And her mother came in after she was off the phone and said, “Oh, what was that all about?” And she explained it to her like, “Oh, they were just checking to see if, you know, I thought Rachel would be a good candidate for Enhanced Consciousness.” She goes, “Oh, I want that.” And answers, “No. It’s not for you.” And she’s like, “It’s really hard.” Or she said something like, “It’s the least easy way to live,” kind of a thing.

Rachel White 45:00

And yeah, it’s not easy at all. And no one ever said it was going to be but every day, “regular,” mundane life, like we joke, like muggle life. It’s also not easy. And the perception that that’s safer, is a perception. It’s perpetuated, you know, with a lot of effort and investment, by the way, it’s a coordinated ad campaign that you should, “do the normal thing and the responsible thing,” and that’s how life works.

Rachel White 45:29

I can tell you working in corporate America, that the concept that you work really hard, so they’re going to take care of it that doesn’t exist, there’s no job security –

Candice Wu 45:37

No stability with that.

Rachel White 45:39

No stability. And it’s not any more secure than anything else that by the way, you might be enjoying, that might not drain you or make you unhappy, that, you know, why can’t you find something that connects you to that innermost part of yourself, as you put it, that also pays your bills?

Rachel White 46:00

Those things should be possible. And I think, for a lot of people I know. They are all about to make that big leap. I’m about to get the Indiegogo campaign up for the Tarot deck. I’ve been held back. I think just by fear, you know, it’s not conscious fear. But there’s a reason it’s been so slow. It’s got to be fear. And a few other things. And, you know, in my own way, I’m stepping out almost like it’s like coming out of the closet a little bit, right?

Candice Wu 46:31

Oh, yeah,

Rachel White 46:31

Doing it.

Candice Wu 46:32

I totally know what you mean.

Rachel White 46:34

Yes.

Rachel White 46:35

I figure everybody a work thing, some of which, anyway, you know? What’s the harm at this point?

Candice Wu 46:39

Yeah.

Rachel White 46:40

Yeah.

Candice Wu 46:43

Well, do you know, are you –

Rachel White 46:44

Cat outside of the bag?

Candice Wu 46:45

Right, like, are you aware of what the fear is?

Rachel White 46:50

A bit? Yeah. Which is that, you know, it’s going to get harder and weirder. You know, in my life has been really hard, really weird. And I think a part of me just kind of like, is tired. It just wants to, like, hang out and, you know, as a spiritual path, you’re constantly challenged. And you constantly grow. It’s that Enhanced Consciousness package, right? It’s not for everybody. And it can be quite unpleasant at times. But yeah, I think that was part of it. And also just, I think the fear of judgment even though I’m not a person who’s overly concerned with what others think, there is something there of, “Can I ever get a normal job again, after this if I needed to? If I did this? Well, that – you know, what

Rachel White 47:31

What does it look like on a resume?

Candice Wu 47:33

That’s what you thought, because like you probably won’t. The question that I have is would you even want to go back?

Rachel White 47:33

No. Of course, not. Yeah, I, there’s a pattern that emerged this year with my day job that I went through last year and it’s comically similar, and see it was down to the day, you know, the exact same day, the exact same full moon in March, the whole thing. And I went to Yoga, and I was sitting in Shavasana, my brain, go, “You know what, I can’t do this again this year.” And then I crapped on myself, my inner self said, “No, you will not do this again, this year. You will not.”

Candice Wu 48:08

Yeah, that’s clear.

Rachel White 48:09

So yeah, it’s interesting. And spirituality is way less crazy than corporate America. It’s way less crazy than the medical industry. I mean, if you look at things that we all think of as the bedrocks of our society, they’re completely nuts. And you know, who wants to be sane and high-functioning in a world that’s insane? Really? That way? I don’t, not necessarily.

Candice Wu 48:33

Well, so for all the people, you know, for people out there that are listening to this, that are in that industry, or are connected with that industry, what if they’re like, “Rachel, how are we insane?” Like, what, this is real.

Rachel White 48:51

Yeah, no. Well, Peter Thiel put it best because insanity in individuals is common. But insanity and groups of people is the rule. He wrote Zero to One. And he was one of the founders of PayPal, and he’s a venture capitalist in Silicon Valley.

Rachel White 49:09

So what he meant by that was not that the individuals are the issue or that Science is the issue, or the Economics or Economic Models are the issue, is that when we get together in large groups, companies, etc., there’s very little common sense a lot of the times like, if you look at the medical industry, it’s not the practitioners that are insane. It’s the fact that the profit motive is forcing doctors to get crazy limits of liability on their insurance. And, you know, the whole financial model of it is, it’s a challenge for us in this country, in a way like “We’re smart. We should fix that.” You know?

Candice Wu 49:43

Yeah, I think that’s really key here. Like the individual smartness.

Candice Wu 49:48

It gets, it swirls into this mass-energy that loses a lot.

Rachel White 49:48

Yeah.

Rachel White 49:56

It buckles under the weight of its own size, in a lot of cases. So when I talk industries, I mean, like the whole industry is, you know, and the movie, The Big Short, and the Real Estate crash. So I’m in commercial real estate, the crash that happened in LA, everybody said, “Well, it’s impossible, it’s not going to happen. You know, real estate always appreciates and never depreciates, there will never be a housing bubble. Everybody pays the mortgage.”

Rachel White 50:19

These were things that were as true as like, you know, the Earth is round and the sky is blue. And it didn’t happen. And a few people like there were a lot of individuals who were really smart and said, “Wait a minute, this is a problem. Look at this, but the monstrous size of it. It couldn’t, it’s like turning a battleship around in a bathtub.”

Rachel White 50:38

So, there’s a lot of things that aren’t the most rational in what we consider to be the rational world. And I think it’s interesting when you look at Shamanism, you look at energy work. Or, any of these modalities of spirituality. There’s plenty of that makes sense. If you actually take it in instead of resisting the new data now.

Candice Wu 50:59

Definitely. Our mind can want to try to filter it through, the mind stuff that doesn’t always, it can’t take it all in. It’s beyond that. But I want to go back to Shamanism. So you’ve talked about shamanic journeying, and spirit animals, and Shadow Work, and Tarot cards, and that spiritual work that you do with people. Is that your main work as a shaman, or are there other ways or modalities that you use within that realm?

Rachel White 51:30

Well, it’s constantly evolving, which is one of the things I really love about it, because I love learning, and I love being educated and being trained. So recently, and after many years of resistance, I got, you know, Reiki attuned. The reason I was resistant is because of the, I call it the Doreen Virtue effect, which is for a long time, when I first got into Shamanism, every Reiki practitioner I met, was sort of, I don’t know how to word it. It just was it seemed, it seemed a little nuts, you know, and that’s my own stuff, too. But they seemed like really rigid or really, whatever. You know, just it was kind of a funny thing to me. And I have friends, I’ve had Reiki for 10 years, I’ve received it. I paid for it. I believe in it. I love it.

Candice Wu 52:18

Oh, that’s funny. You were having that at the same time.

Rachel White 52:20

Oh, totally like the guy who pays the hooker for sex. But you know,

Candice Wu 52:24

Right. There was something that was driving you and resisting you all at once.

Rachel White 52:28

Absolutely! So I went and got attuned in it. And so I do Reiki but what I’m finding doing it and I’ve been doing mainly like practice sessions with clients who are kind enough to let me do that is my Reiki is not really Reiki.

Rachel White 52:45

It’s the Shamanic Reiki and it’s high amounts of data. So data visualization of the energy body, getting a lot of information and doing things that are not pure Reiki at all. So that has been an incredible learning experience for me, and I’m thinking of finding a way to codify or, you know, for wanting a better term, find something to call what I’m doing, over time. I think it’s important to figure out what it is first, you know, I try to be responsible that way. I don’t want to brand something before it’s defined.

Candice Wu 53:19

Right. But what you’re saying data visualization of the energy body, what does that mean?

Rachel White 53:25

So someone’s laying on the table, and you’re checking in, you’re doing Reiki, you’re doing a scan of the body. And the other day, I had a client and her feet were the roots of a tree. And I saw the roots moving down. And you know, my hands are doing things, but I’m not consciously that aware of what they’re doing. But it was, you know, on her ankles and her feet, and then I look up and her head and her whole, higher auras of chakras are like the branches of a weeping willow tree.

Rachel White 53:51

I was like, this is very interesting. You know, and so I’ll share that with her after the session. And I’ll say things like, “You know, it might even be worthwhile to go to Whole Foods and get a Bach remedy, flower essences of Willow.

Rachel White 54:04

Sometimes it’s literal. And, you know, I treated almost like mediumship where I don’t edit. It’s not for me to decide what’s important for her or not. It all comes out, all that information gets shared as crazy as it sounds. So yeah, I’m doing a lot more of that it’s a lot more of an integrated thing. And in that same session, a hardihood pathway came up for her, and so that’s mediumship. So if they all tend, they’re kind of –

Candice Wu 54:32

It’s woven in it.

Rachel White 54:33

Growing together.

Candice Wu 54:34

Yeah.

Rachel White 54:34

Yes.

Candice Wu 54:34

You can’t –

Rachel White 54:35

Yes.

Candice Wu 54:36

Being who you are sounds like you can’t separate those things. That’s what I found in myself, at least, like all these different parts of me come in, even when I’m working in one “modality,” that I have made.

Rachel White 54:50

Right.

Candice Wu 54:51

It’s not that at all, it’s the confluence of experience that comes into one moment.

Rachel White 54:59

Yeah. That you just were very articulate. That’s it. I would also say, with the Tarot deck, getting that off the ground and getting that out in the hands of people. That’s me, I’m really passionate about empowering people to access their own spirituality.

Candice Wu 55:14

Beautiful. Yeah.

Rachel White 55:15

Yeah. In some energies or things that have been, I think, neglected or overlooked in more traditional decks, or Fairy decks or Angel decks, and I talked to angels, I love angels. I’ve got a great hilarious relationship with a few of them, by the way. So I’m not dismissive of them. But they get press coverage, right?

Rachel White 55:36

There are other energies that are maybe, “more Shamanic” that I tried to incorporate into the deck because I think they’re useful for people. I think it’s sort of like, when we look at Paganism, or these beings, or spirits of place, they were focused on specific things.

Rachel White 55:56

There’s a power to specificity. Right? You know? I personally believe in an overarching like Cosmic consciousness, like a God with a capital “G”. I do. But I don’t think they’re mutually exclusive. And I don’t think to access that all the time helps you do some of the little things maybe, you know?

Candice Wu 56:16

And I’m not sure that he’s sweating it.

Rachel White 56:18

I don’t think he’s worried that you’re hanging out with a Pagan deity once in a while. I just – in my personal experience, I don’t think that they get all up about that. They seem to be fine with each other.

Candice Wu 56:30

Yeah, they are in harmony, or they’re –

Rachel White 56:33

Yeah.

Candice Wu 56:34

At least at the purest forms.

Rachel White 56:36

Oh hilariously, the show, American Gods came out, which was based on the Neil Gaiman novel, which, he’s great. It’s great. It’s hilarious. And a lot of those characters in that story are things that are in the Tarot deck. And I just think that that’s hilarious.

Candice Wu 56:52

How funny!

Rachel White 56:53

I’m wondering if they’re making a concerted effort like they got a new agent or something, and that’s why I’m featuring them. You know, Odin is my homeboy. So I was very happy to see him in American Gods.

Candice Wu 57:07

Oh, that’s great.

Rachel White 57:09

Yeah.

Candice Wu 57:10

Do you have your deck right now?

Rachel White 57:12

Oh, yeah, absolutely. Yeah.

Candice Wu 57:14

Do you still want to pull some cards?

Rachel White 57:16

Yes. Let’s do it.

Candice Wu 57:17

What shall we do? For me or for the audience? What feels right?

Rachel White 57:21

Let’s do it for you. And then I’ll pull one for the audience. Because that’s always a nice thing, right? To do.

Candice Wu 57:29

Yeah.

Rachel White 57:31

So it’s very funny. I’m not very structured about tarot cards. Everybody has a thing, they get very, you know, we all have our own language with these guys. I’m not that rigid. So I don’t have a lot of ticks and things like that. So I’ll just shuffle them up and pull a few out.

Candice Wu 57:48

Okay.

Rachel White 57:49

And a big shout out, by the way to the designer. Emma, is one of my longest clients, one of my first clients, and that’s how she and I met and became friends. And she’s just a very talented designer and artist. So she worked on this.

Candice Wu 58:02

Beautiful.

Rachel White 58:02

Yeah.

Candice Wu 58:03

What’s her last name?

Rachel White 58:04

Cook.

Candice Wu 58:05

Cook.

Rachel White 58:05

Yeah. And it was really hard on her body. It’s funny, she’d be working on a card that has a certain connotation with a certain chakra, she’d have a medical issue there. So it felt terrible the whole time. She should really get hazard pay.

Candice Wu 58:06

Yeah, right. Shout out to Emma. Thank you.

Rachel White 58:22

All right. So two cards for you. Oh! I got the chills about one of them. The two of Moons. We did Moons instead of Cups, because Cups are about the emotions and love, and so are the moons, right?

Rachel White 58:38

The idea that Moons control water, control emotion and feeling. The two of Moons is a convergence of two souls. It’s like a soulmate-loving relationship. A deepening of bonds. Yeah, like really kind of like falling in love and letting that happen. And the beauty of all of that,

Candice Wu 59:00

That just happened. That’s happening.

Rachel White 59:03

Congratulations!

Candice Wu 59:04

Like in a big way.

Rachel White 59:06

So this card is about their being perfect symmetry and balance. So you’re not the same person. But your word Alchemy, comes into play here where there is no real effort, because it’s a good fit. So you can be madly in love with someone that can be, you know, a disaster in terms of balance or your ability to live well together, support each other, either emotionally or in resources. But this card is all about like you meet your person and they help you grow and you help them grow. And you’re different, but you’re intensely compatible. And there’s usually a soulmate connection, as well.

Candice Wu 59:46

Oh, I feel that everything you’re saying is exactly right.

Rachel White 59:50

It’s so pretty. I’ll send you photos.

Candice Wu 59:51

Oh, please.

Rachel White 59:52

So you can have them.

Candice Wu 59:54

We’ll put up on the website too, if that’s okay?

Rachel White 59:56

Absolutely!

Candice Wu 59:57

For the show.

Rachel White 59:58

Yeah.

Candice Wu 59:59

Awesome.

Rachel White 1:00:00

The other card you got is one of my favorites. It’s the eight of Crystals. We did Crystals instead of Coins.

Rachel White 1:00:06

Coins indicate material wealth or things in the material plane. And I love Crystals.

Candice Wu 1:00:13

Yeah

Rachel White 1:00:14

So the eight of crystals is all about working in a way where you’re not getting overwhelmed by the enormity of the task, and you’re just in the doing of it. So you do one thing every day that moves you further ahead. And when you look back on it, you kind of built this incredible body of work.

Rachel White 1:00:31

So the eight of Crystals indicates a time of high efficiency and productivity and really mastering a craft by doing versus studying or hearing someone else tell you about it. But being in the doing of it, which for me is the big part of the Wu Wei. You got to get out of the house, you got to go do too, you got to participate if you want to play the game.

Candice Wu 1:00:53

Yeah.

Rachel White 1:00:54

So really positive.

Candice Wu 1:00:57

I love that. That’s always been my kind of jam like doing versus studying. Even though I have studied plenty in my life, but I really am such a kinesthetic learner. I’m like, in my body, I have to learn it in my bones. I feel that’s where the mastery comes from, the experience. And that’s a really nice reminder, just like one little thing and the ease of that.

Rachel White 1:01:23

Yeah. And it just always be working towards it productively. And it seems, you know, when this card shows up, I would say to you, or any other client that you have a gift for managing your time well.

Rachel White 1:01:34

And by managing your time outs, I mean managing where your attention goes? What are you attending to? What do you give your time and energy to? You do the right things with that. You’re not spending time on a lot of things that aren’t producing results for you and then aren’t productive and aren’t moving you forward.

Candice Wu 1:01:50

Nice.

Rachel White 1:01:52

For the audience. It’s the three of Crystals. And this is a great card. This is a card of, it’s funny, like interdimensional connectedness and the intersection points. So everything kind of coming together. Everything working really well. There, being a lot of moving parts that fit perfectly.

Rachel White 1:02:16

So it’s a card of achievement, of really, you know, good news of success, financial success, gifts, but of the gifts and financial resources that come from relationships. The threes have a lot to do with Triangles. And in the suit of Crystals, it’s very positive.

Rachel White 1:02:37

So through Triangulation of relationships or introductions or networking, or you know, even what you do on your podcast, you’re putting people in touch with each other. And they’re growing and expanding

Candice Wu 1:02:49

Love that.

Rachel White 1:02:49

As a contrast, the three of Swords is is a negative Triangulation of relationships that tends to indicate, you know, cheating in a relationship or lying, or if you’ve ever known someone who has to Triangulate something, in order to be in it. Like they have to involve their mother all the time. And you’re like, “Why can’t it just be us?” Or whatever that is.

Rachel White 1:03:14

The third sword piercing the other two. So that’s not a good Triangle. This one is. It’s a happy Triangle.

Candice Wu 1:03:22

That’s awesome. Do you hear that everyone?

Candice Wu 1:03:25

You are receiving this, just blessing here. I love that. Thank you.

Rachel White 1:03:31

So are we, so it’s the audience. It’s you. It’s me. It’s –

Candice Wu 1:03:35

All of us.

Rachel White 1:03:36

Yes.

Candice Wu 1:03:37

The synchronicity of all of it and the interconnectedness feels like of everyone who’s tuning into the energy here, the Alchemy of what we’re creating and what gets created. Thank you. Thank you, everyone, for listening. And for you for sharing this. And I love this deck already. I love that you’re doing Crystals and Moons. And so do you have Swords as well? And what’s the other?

Rachel White 1:04:00

We did Bones for Swords? And we did Trees for Wands. So we went a little more elemental with things. Yes.

Candice Wu 1:04:11

Oh, that feels so good.

Rachel White 1:04:14

Thank you. Yeah, it’s fun. And thank you. And thank everyone who’s listening just for this. I think, you know, every time we have open conversations, and we share about these things, we all benefit from them. And, you know, Candice, you’ve got this amazing platform where you’re able to do that for people, myself included. I’ve learned a lot listening to others on your podcast. So thank you.

Candice Wu 1:04:38

Beautiful. Thank you.

Candice Wu 1:04:40

This has been wonderful, Rachel. Is there anything else you want to share?

Rachel White 1:04:44

No, just that if you’re curious, and you’ve never used a Tarot deck before, you know, don’t be shy, go on Amazon and get a basic Rider-Waite or keep a dream journal. I think you know, the more that you listen to yourself and your own intuition, you can really take charge of your own spiritual practice. So I’m all about empowering people to do that on their own as much as possible.

Candice Wu 1:05:10

That’s a great message. Thank you. It’s dream work especially. I think there’s so much there if you’re interested in tapping into that encourage that too. And –

Rachel White 1:05:19

Yes.

Candice Wu 1:05:20

Yeah, I’m excited, Rachel, you’re going to offer a Shamanic journey experience for everyone. Is that right?

Rachel White 1:05:26

Absolutely.

Candice Wu 1:05:28

Yes. I’m so excited. So tune in later this week, you’ll be guided through this lovely Shamanic journeying with Rachel. And check out the Totem Tarot deck when it comes out. We’ll definitely put the links up when it comes out. Thank you so much, Rachel.

Rachel White 1:05:44

Thank you.

Candice Wu 1:05:45

Such a pleasure.

Rachel White 1:05:46

Absolutely. Thank you so much.

Rachel White 1:05:48

Where can people find you? People can find me on the interweb. So totemreadings.com. Or you can just shoot me an email, totemrach@gmail.com.

Candice Wu 1:06:05

You’re awesome. Thank you.

Rachel White 1:06:07

You’re awesome.

Candice Wu 1:06:07

Thank you!

Candice Wu 1:06:08

It was so great to have Rachel on the show. After we did this podcast, we just had a little private chat about all the things we wanted to talk about in the future. Like how to talk to your body and tell your genetics what you want it to do, how your body and you work together.

Candice Wu 1:06:29

And also about past lives about being a shaman, at least me being a shaman and how that plays into this life and her being really surprised at hearing about her past lives.

Candice Wu 1:06:40

And also, we talked a little bit about our cycles and how that has really changed the energy has really changed in the universe right now and has caused a lot of women’s cycles to switch to either Full Moon or New Moon, the opposite moon or a really big shift.

Candice Wu 1:06:59

So I’m excited to have her back on the show sometime and look out for her Tarot deck, the Totem Tarot deck, which offers the different Suits, the Moons, the Crystals, Trees, and Bones. I love that. And you’ll see that in the show notes as soon as it comes out. If you don’t see it there, it just may not be out yet. But, you think by the time that you’re listening to this, that it will be out there in the world for you to order if you want to.

Candice Wu 1:07:28

Thanks so much for listening and want to leave you with a little bit of music to just let you transition into your day. And I’ll see you next time on the Embody Podcast.

Introduction

Candice Wu 0:00

You’re tuning into a special experience of Shamanic Journeying with Rachel White of Totem.

Hello, and welcome. You’re listening to the Embody Podcast, a show about remembering and embodying your true nature, inner wisdom, embodied healing, and self-love.

My name is Candice Wu, and I’m a holistic healing facilitator, intuitive coach, and artist, sharing my personal journey of vulnerability, offering meditations and guided healing support, and having co-creative conversations with healers and wellness practitioners from all over the world.

Rachel’s Podcast

I hope that you enjoyed the full episode of my conversation with Rachel. If you haven’t already, check that out. It’s at CandiceWu.com/rachelwhite, and her name is spelled RACHEL White. You can also find it at CandiceWu.com/ep75.

In that episode, we had a lot of fun talking about shamanism, about the individual experience of the Divine, invisible rivers of flow and non-attachment, and the multiverse and Mandela effect. She also offered a spiritual tarot reading at the end of the experience for the audience and for myself.

So, it’s wonderful to have you here today. Feel free to find a comfortable place to lie down if you’re ready to join in the shamanic journey. And as you lie down, allow yourself to release the thoughts and awareness of the day. Just come into your body, feeling the weight of gravity pulling down on all the parts of your body towards the ground. And as you tune into this journey experience, I invite you to be curious and allow yourself to be surprised at what might reveal itself or what you experience. Here’s Rachel.

Shamanic Journey with Rachel

Rachel White 2:18

We begin our journey at a clearing in the woods.

This clearing is perfectly circular, and nothing grows within its circumference.

Walk around this clearing in the woods, taking as many details about it as you can, what grows on the outside of it.

As you’re walking around, try to take note of an opening. This could be a hollowed-out tree trunk, a cave or even just a pathway, taking as many details about this opening as you can.

What does it feel like?

What is it made out of?

What other elements and items or landmarks are around it?

The more details you take in about your opening, the easier it will be to access in the future.

Enter

Once you’ve taken in as many details as you can, enter your opening. This will take you to your passageway.

When you emerge on the other side, that is where your journey begins.

The next time you hear my voice, it will be to call you back to this passageway and to re-emerge on the other side in the clearing in the woods.

[Drumming and Silent Journeying]

Transition

Wherever you are, whatever you’re doing, it’s a good time to start saying thank you.

Wrap up any conversations you’re having and start to slowly head back to your passageway.

You have more time than you think. So, take your time, and the next time you hear my voice it will be to call you back to your passageway and back out to the clearing in the woods.

It’s time to start heading back, entering your passageway and working your way back to the clearing in the woods.

Closing

When the drumming music stops, it’s time to come back to your body, and slowly sit up feeling refreshed.

End

Candice Wu 12:06

I hope that you enjoyed this experience with Rachel. As I said earlier, you can tune into our full podcast at CandiceWu.com/ep75 or CandiceWu.com/rachelwhite.

It’s great to have you here today, and if you are interested in other healing experientials, meditations or guided experiences, you can check out those from my podcast guests as well as from me in solo episodes at CandiceWu.com/podcast.

See you next time on the Embody Podcast.

Candice Wu 0:00

Hello and welcome to the Embody Podcast. This is Candace Wu, and today I share a lovely conversation with Heather Fraelick, a good friend and colleague of mine, the owner of Heather Fraelick, LMT, Bodywork, and Massage based in Wicker Park, a friendly neighborhood of Chicago.

Candice Wu 0:17

In this podcast, Heather shares with us, her gifts. How her dance career has been an essential part of her life and her offerings to the world, the experience of being human and having emotions, the myth that we’re healed or zen at some point, saying no and having healthy boundaries, and also how the body talks to us.

Candice Wu 0:36

Heather has a beautiful gift of talking with our fascia, muscles, and body and teaches this to all those around her. She brings lightness, joy, and ease in self-care of the body, heart, and soul. And her last name, Fraelick, even means joy and that is exactly what I experienced her as.

Candice Wu 0:56

In essence, Heather brings forth a compassionate listening ear to each session workshop or women’s circle and helps clients empower themselves on their road to recovery. And without further ado, enjoy this conversation with Heather.

Candice Wu 1:10

Hi Heather, welcome to the show.

Heather Fraelick 1:11

I’m honored to be here.

Candice Wu 1:13

Thanks for being here. I have just admired your work from before I even knew you for years. I think I told you. But could you tell our listeners what you’re about and who you are?

Heather Fraelick 1:23

Of course, well, I own a body work practice in Wicker Park and it specializes in a form of treatment called Myofascial Release. But I also combine it with cranial psychotherapy, Reiki and reflexology, as well as my previous background as a professional dancer. So it’s an approach to the body that’s very well rounded and the energy systems that are very well rounded as well. And I like to work with people, you know, focusing on their individual needs, and where they’re at in the moment, rather than approaching the body like a cookie cutter kind of approach, where’s just this formula of working with the body because everybody’s different. Everyone has their own experiences to bring to the table. So as best I can, I try to intuitively work with people in the moment, drawing from those tools that I just shared with you and I draw from.

Candice Wu 2:19

Beautiful, and I have felt your work in that way, the intuitive nature of it. And also, you as a dancer, can you say about how that’s influenced your healing work and your, all of the pieces you put together now?

Heather Fraelick 2:35

Oh, for sure.

Heather Fraelick 2:37

Well, with regard to dancing, not only is there a physical aspect to the work, obviously, you know, you’re moving your body in such a way to bring choreography to life on the stage. However, there is also an energy behind that as well, the energy that the dancer plays with and off of the audience with an off of the other dancers that are on stage. And if it’s a solo, you know, how do you take your energy in and make it big enough to be that solo dancer on a huge stage. And that has been a surprising twist in the body work I do. Because I originally went into this field, to learn a little bit more about how to heal my own body from dance injuries that I had. And going into it, I was just more about the physical aspect of the human body. But little did I know, there is also an energy when you are doing healing work with people and approaching the body from that standpoint, rather than just like working with a body as if it’s a piece of meat, you know?

Heather Fraelick 3:47

You need to — at least I found, you know, have an awareness and how to enter into someone’s energy field and respect them from the place of where they’re at, and I feel like dance, surprisingly, had trained me so well in that before I even entered into the world of energy work. So that’s very much has come naturally to me and I think that has really helped me create a space for people to come in, and to be felt and seen as an individual, rather than just another body to work on. That sensitivity is something dance really taught me.

Candice Wu 3:49

Yeah.

Candice Wu 4:31

Yeah, you’re really attuned and it’s almost as if you’re having a conversation with my body when I’ve had an experience with you. What is your take on that and how the healing is working?

Heather Fraelick 4:46

Oh, yeah. Well, that’s really awesome to hear that that’s what you experienced, because that’s the attention I do my best to go in with, you know, to each session.

Heather Fraelick 4:57

So with regard to healing, I don’t heal people. I am not someone that has this magic power that can, you know, transform people out of their pain, that, to me, that’s not how healing works.

Heather Fraelick 5:13

My mentor, John F Barnes, talks a lot about healing happens through feeling and those aren’t her exact words, but you have to feel your experience in order to heal it, whether that’s pain, whether that’s stored up in moments of laughter that were stifled down, because you were in a quiet place, and you couldn’t laugh, for example.

Heather Fraelick 5:34

And so when I work with people, there are techniques, whether it’s energy techniques, body techniques, that are introduced to the person’s being and body. And through those techniques, the body has an opportunity to either soften into the techniques, and the client has an opportunity to feel what’s going on in their experience. And either if they need to let it out through deep exhale, or crying or laughing, whatever it may be, the work creates a space for the client to be able to feel what’s going on inside of them, to create that connection in their own body. And it’s through that connection, and it’s through the opportunity to stop and feel what’s going on with a client and actually move through the healing process rather than hoping to come in for a session, have a massage, and walk out like they just took a pill and it’s all masked and covered up. So I see myself more as a facilitator to people’s healing rather than, “Oh my God, I heal people.”

Candice Wu 6:43

Yeah, I’m totally in line with you on that. And it sounds like you in a way, turn the lights on inside the body and the body just goes “Oh, okay.”

Heather Fraelick 6:52

Exactly.

Candice Wu 6:53

Exactly, yes.

Heather Fraelick 6:55

And I truly believe that everybody’s body and being has the capacity to heal under the right circumstances, whatever that may be for that particular person in that particular moment in time.

Candice Wu 7:09

If our fascia could talk. And I guess maybe we’re speaking more generally, or if you want to talk about yourself, but if our fascia could talk, what would it be saying?

Heather Fraelick 7:21

Oh, it could be saying a number of things. And it does talk, it definitely does.

Candice Wu 7:28

Our fascia is talking.

Heather Fraelick 7:29

It is, and it’s considered the tissue of consciousness.

Heather Fraelick 7:33

So, for those of you who have seen, you know, Avatar, for example, just seeing a depiction, there’s a tree in Avatar, where the characters go up to it, and they hold on to the branches and they hear memories from people long ago. And this tree has stored those memories — that’s very similar to what happens in the fascial tissue.

Heather Fraelick 7:57

So if there’s an experience or trauma that happens, and the person experiencing it doesn’t experience it to its full capacity at the moment of onset, it gets stored in the fascia. It doesn’t just leave the person’s being. It gets stored in their body until the fascia is addressed, and has an opportunity for that memory or that experience to come up to the surface so it can be moved through and healed after that. It just, it can stay stuck in the tissue and the fascia can speak through placing 2000 pounds of pressure per square inch on the person’s system until it’s dealt with, to open up and let go. So the fascia can definitely speak by trying to get our attention through pain. Oh yeah, but once it’s released and fluid and free, the sensations that you can feel in your body that maybe you forgot what it felt like to have freedom in your body or never even knew. It’s amazing when you feel that openness within your physical being and how that affects you energetically.

Candice Wu 9:15

I love the way you describe that. And speaking of energetically, I know that you work with the Chakras., and you’ve held women circles in groups exploring that. Tell me about what’s been interesting for you around that lately?

Heather Fraelick 9:31

Oh, yeah.

Heather Fraelick 9:32

Well, I was called to facilitate women’s circles. I had been participating in circles for over a decade, myself personally, and they have been a grounding rock for me, during times, good and bad and anywhere in between. Being able to come together on a monthly basis with a supportive group of female friends, has been incredibly healing for me. I mean, much like our menstrual cycle comes once a month, you know, it’s once a month gathering together and tuning in that way, helped catapult me to rise up to anything I had going on in the month thereafter.

Heather Fraelick 10:14

So what I was noticing, with what clients had shared with me, and obviously, you know, I’m not a therapist, so I can’t, you know, work in a psychotherapeutic model, if you will. However, clients do share a lot with me during sessions, and I hold the space just to listen. And if it seems appropriate to refer them to the appropriate therapist, I will do so. However, what I had heard from a lot of these women were wanting a space to connect, to connect with themselves, to connect with other women, not to feel so isolated in this day and age of technology, where so many people are glued to their cell phones and computers.

Heather Fraelick 10:55

And so one day, I received an email from a colleague that you and I both know, regarding a women’s circle facilitation training, and the lights went off in me, I was like, “Okay, let’s do this.” So I received my training to actually facilitate women’s circles, and not just participate. And that’s where the first circle had offered, called the Chakra Movement came about and what I had heard through the women that I’d worked with individually, one on one, wanting a space to connect, was very much a parent in the circle of women that came together for that particular group, and coming back together once a month for eight months, really proved to be a solid ground for them to come back to each month, so they can spring forward into their life, you know, outside of the circle and a more balanced, centered, knowing themselves approach. And we worked with the chakra system to be able to help facilitate their healing during our time together.

Candice Wu 12:01

So, Heather, there’s this myth out there, that, there’s this, at some point, a place where people feel healed or think that they should be healed at some point. Do you experience that?

Heather Fraelick 12:14

A lot.

Candice Wu 12:15

Yes.

Heather Fraelick 12:17

A lot of people make comments to me like, “Oh, you’re so zen, you’re so at peace all the time, how do you do it.” And, of course, when I’m working with people, I do my best to get to that place because of the fact that I need to be centered in order to work with them and work with them to the best of my ability. However, that’s not the full Heather, that’s not the real person inside, there are an aray of emotions that I go through every day. And while I have definitely healed some deep wounds from my past, sometimes they can still rear their head. And it’s through the tools that I have learned along the way to help with the healing that’s already taken place that I can draw from and present day moments where they rear their head again, to be able to move through the experience and circle back to my center.

Heather Fraelick 13:21

So while the experiences, you know, of turmoil, if you will, are few and far between in certain circumstances like they don’t trip me up as often as they used to. They’re still there, and I don’t know one person in our related field that has it all together, that is 100% healed and has no other work to do. If there’s no other work to do, you know, where’s the life in that, you know, life is about, to me, is about experiences and different experiences are going to come and some of them may trip us up a little bit. But how can we, as consciously as we can, move through them with the healing tools that we know?

Heather Fraelick 14:08

I don’t know a person taht has got it all together yet? Have you?

Candice Wu 14:12

No. I don’t know. I don’t know a single wellness practitioner, meditation teacher, Yoga teacher, massage therapist that, anyone that is completely healed and Zen. That’s just not human.

Heather Fraelick 14:31

Well, I don’t know about you. I feel like that’s part of the reason why I got into this work. And unbeknownst to me, did I find that I would fall in love with it so much that I wanted to make it my full-time career, that at the time I entered massage therapy school that was actually more for selfish reasons, in the sense that I wanted to heal my body. I was a dancer experiencing chronic injuries over and over again. And I knew I loved the studies of anatomy and physiology that I wanted to take a step further to be like, okay, I want to learn more to heal these chronic conditions that I’m experiencing, so I can go back and dance. But during my experience in school, it was like, Oh, I actually really like working with people in this manner. I think I’m going to take the fork in the road to the right and actually work with people instead of focusing going back to dance. But it all originally began with my own need to heal. And I know a lot of other practitioners in our fields that had a feeling sense that they needed to do some healing work and took their studies even further to also help other people.

Candice Wu 15:39

That’s exactly what I came into most of the different modalities that I practice now like Family Constellations and Somatic Experiencing that I lived it in my bones before even beginning to offer it to others and facilitate it and that seems like what you do, you live it in your bones, in your self, in your fascia.

Candice Wu 16:05

I’m curious, what do you do to take care of yourself, to nourish yourself?

Heather Fraelick 16:11

Yeah, that’s been a bumpy road too, actually, currently I’ll share that, you know, I make sure to receive my own Myofascial release sessions. I also see a chiropractor and an acupuncturist on a monthly basis. I practice Yoga on a regular basis. I do what I can to get outside and get some nature, you know, in my life and get some fresh air and not be stuck inside all the time, which sometimes can be challenging in the winter in Chicago.

Heather Fraelick 16:42

However, it took me some experiences of being injured as a massage therapist to realize, oh, my gosh, I do have to take care of myself because there was a period of time where, when I started practicing, I was all about helping people and that I forgot to help myself, the original intention, I had to go to massage school until I had a shoulder injury, and I couldn’t work for a month. It was like, Oh, wait, I can’t forget myself too. Yes, it’s, I think it’s noble to go out and want to help other people. But if you don’t help yourself, you literally cannot help other people.

Heather Fraelick 17:20

And in that case, when I had to take a month off, I literally couldn’t, because I had to heal myself and my shoulder. And so there was no work for me to be able to do with others. So it’s like, that’s when I really started getting the picture. Oh, wait, I need to receive treatments, I need to make sure I’m on top of my exercise and eat as healthy as possible, you know, and I do my best to listen to my body. I am not, I don’t eat like a strict diet. I eat what I feel my body wants to be nourished by. For example, I don’t exercise all the time, super hard. I do what I feel like my body needs, one day it might feel like Yoga, the other day, it might feel like cardio on an elliptical machine, one day might be a dance class, you know. I do my best just to listen to where this vessel is at.

Candice Wu 18:11

Can you tell us an example of how you were giving too much or not taking care of yourself and putting others first, of course?

Heather Fraelick 18:20

So in my practice, I got to a point where I was booking out or currently am booking out a month or two in advance, and having some issues trying to fit in my current clientele that I see on a regular basis because of new clients wanting to come in, which I’m so grateful for. However, I had a challenging time at first saying no to new clients coming in and also trying to fit in my current clients to the point where I was spreading myself way too thin. My working days hands-on with people were much longer than I had ever worked before and it wasn’t until I noticed, I would wake up in the morning exhausted and feeling like, oh my gosh, I have to go in and work with more people now. That was when those kinds of thoughts were coming up. It was like something has to change and it has to change within me. So that’s when I started putting up some boundaries and saying no to new clientele for a little while so I can fit in my current clients without overextending myself. And as a practitioner, especially when you work for yourself, it’s, you saying no to people may or may not depending on the person, be a challenge. And for me, at first, it was until I started saying no and taking care of myself by not overextending myself, did I realized, Oh, that was the best thing that could have happened.

Candice Wu 19:45

I totally get that it can be so enticing, especially to just want to help more people. Sometimes you get a referral that you’re just so happy and grateful and you want to be able to accommodate that. Or, we just get in linear thinking and we think you know, more is better or something but it sounds like you’re talking about feeling a quality of life and it really enjoying your practice.

Heather Fraelick 20:08

Exactly, and clients can feel that. The quality over the quantity has become for sure, my go to model that I’m doing my best to work with right now. Because not only do I enjoy my work more, however clients feel that enjoyment more and the sessions tend to be more effective for the people that are coming in. Because I’m coming from a more centered, joyous place rather than, oh my gosh, I have to work with someone else kind of place. No one wants to receive a session from a therapist that’s in that space.

Candice Wu 20:43

Yeah, I can totally feel that.

Candice Wu 20:47

Well, and speaking of challenges, what, you know, just broadening it, I find that people are interested in hearing from anyone they know what’s going on in their lives, and are you struggling with stuff too? Because I am. What are some of the current struggles you’re having or life themes that you’re working with, that you experience?

Heather Fraelick 21:09

I would say the most prevalent one right now is, you know, I’m going to be turning forty this year, and what does that mean? First of all, because I don’t feel forty necessarily, however, coming into this stage in life, one of the main things I’m noticing is really trusting myself and trusting my intuition in my own day to day experiences. I feel very strongly that I trust my intuition during my work. But in my outside relationships and the activities that I involve myself with, choices that I’m making outside of my practice, and also with my practice. Forty, to me, feels like the new thirty in a way because I still feel young and vibrant. I don’t feel like forty years old at all. However, I do feel like it’s a level of adulthood that I’m stepping into where it’s like, very important for me to trust my intuition in all my dealings as best as I can, instead of constantly turning to other people to answer the questions for me.

Candice Wu 22:12

And when you say trusting my intuition, I notice you taking your hand and putting it right in your gut. What do you feel when you truly trust your intuition?

Heather Fraelick 22:24

I feel that there’s no questioning about the action that I’m taking. No questioning. It feels —

Heather Fraelick 22:34

A woman I rent space from Cari Rogers over at Tribes, one time said to me, light and right, it feels light and right, like she had said, and if I’m not following the intuition, it feels very deep, not deep, heavy, and weighted. And following my gut, it just feels more natural and I feel like I come alive, in my body, in my spirit, in my emotions.

Candice Wu 23:05

I can relate so much to that. And someone once told me that, especially for me, if it’s not an obvious yes, it’s a no. Because sometimes I live in the middle space. It’s a little murky and little heavy and I debated for a while, but if it’s not an obvious yes, it’s a no.

Heather Fraelick 23:24

That’s awesome. If you don’t mind, I’m going to put that one in my repertoire because it’s very helpful and actually reminds me of one of my massage teachers when I was in school, he would say, when in doubt don’t. And it’s kind of very similar and I had forgotten that he had said that just until this moment. So, you know, perhaps, that’s another way to think about moving from that intuitive space rather than the heady space.

Candice Wu 23:53

Yeah, I love that. And I love what you said about light and right, as well, like all three of those seem like, I can keep them in my back pocket and use them.

Heather Fraelick 24:05

Another thing along those lines that I’ve been sitting with is giving myself permission to be able to live in that way. There has been so much healing work of my own that I’ve done, over stuff that had felt so heavy, and intense. Now, that I’ve moved through some of that, I have experienced what life could be like feeling lighter, and more connected and centered, and in a way, enjoyed. Now, you know, stepping into this new decade of my life, giving myself permission to live life from that light and right place is another thing that I’m working towards. And, I find it very easy to, you know, work with clients being like, you know, you can do it, you deserve to live life, you know, feeling good and feeling like this way. And now it’s like, oh, wait, does that include me too? I would hope so.

Candice Wu 25:04

Yeah, I think that many people are struggling with that permission and waiting for someone to give them permission and that someone is now usually ourselves, do you find that in your work too?

Heather Fraelick 25:18

In my work, I noticed that with people who almost have an addiction to their pain, are afraid to let that go for whatever reason that may be, whether they feel they don’t have a right to or they need permission to or it’s what makes their life makes sense on some level. And on a personal level, I’ve noticed that waiting for permission for someone else, to give me this unseen permission to live my life, according to my heart and own terms, comes from more of a place of once again, not trusting myself and looking to other people for the answers.

Candice Wu 25:58

Just the very nature of what you’re saying, asking someone or waiting for someone else to give permission, makes me think about just the level, like, the need for safety from someone else and that comes from so many places. But we are now adults and we don’t need that same kind of safety as we may have once needed.

Heather Fraelick 26:20

So it just makes me think about that. And that’s actually something that I’ve noticed a lot. I don’t know if it’s living in a city like Chicago or what it is, but so many people feel unsafe in their bodies. And when you feel unsafe, viscerally, on a visceral level, trying to make yourself feel safe mentally and emotionally, I don’t want to say it is impossible, but it’s pretty hard. A lot of hard work has to go into that to try to make that happen and sometimes it won’t happen because of your body’s feeling otherwise, and our bodies, whether consciously or subconsciously, what you’re feeling in them can easily override what our thoughts might be.

Candice Wu 27:01

Well, now I’m thinking about the collective nervous system and just how unsettled we all are in the entire world. What advice do you have for people or what tools can you offer to support just building safety?

Heather Fraelick 27:18

I think of this one study that I had heard, and I apologize, I’m not going to know, I’m not going to be reiterating the exact facts to a tee. There was a study though of people coming together. I believe it was in Washington D.C years ago, hundreds of thousands of people coming together to meditate.

Candice Wu 27:37

The Transcendental Meditation study. I may get it wrong too but the author might have been last name Travers.

Heather Fraelick 27:45

I’m not sure about that. But I will take your word for it.

Heather Fraelick 27:49

But when these people came together to study, the amount of crime that was taking place amongst the city had lowered significantly due to all these people meditating. That’s something that I’ve held on to any point in time where I noticed that I become shaken up about the current state of affairs, and even just how I may feel on in any given day of that study, of tapping into that collective unconsciousness of those people that are meditating, that are coming to life from a place of hope, that are doing their healing work, you know, just tapping into that space within me, but also thinking about all those other people out there that are doing the same thing. And that not everybody is involved in this corrupt experience over here, that’s freaking me out. But really focusing on, Oh, what else are other people doing too? How can I tap into that so I could feel better in the moment here and maybe perhaps have an effect on someone else that I might not be seeing right now?

Candice Wu 28:54

Yeah. You’re bringing up something so important is to while acknowledging what is going on in the world, shift your focus to what you can do and what’s also happening already that’s positive and healthy.

Heather Fraelick 29:09

Exactly, because — I was listening to something, Wayne Dyer had once shared with a story of dandelions. You know, the dandelions, when they’re at that stage, was like that white puffy flower and if someone goes and into the yard, and they see that, all this growth of these dandelions happening in their yard, and they take a shovel and just like smash them, what happens to those seeds, they become dispersed, and more dandelions will grow in the next, you know, coming year. And I think he was talking about that being akin to hatred, for example, like, you know, you see the hatred that’s going on out in the world. But then you know, if you give in to that hate of what everyone else, you know, that person is wrong, I don’t like that person, that’s just spreading more hatred seeds with whomever you come in contact with. What can we do to focus on the more accepting, loving thoughts and seeds and interactions? And how can that spread from one person to the next? That is something that I try to focus on when it seems very easy to go the other way?

Candice Wu 30:26

Yeah, that’s really helpful.

Candice Wu 30:28

So Heather, how do you then spread seeds of positivity in the winter?

Heather Fraelick 30:35

That’s an awesome question. Because, as you know, Chicagoans love to complain about the weather. And I know I have been there myself. Over the years, though, I’ve noticed that what I love about the winter in Chicago is that life outside my home or the four walls of wherever I find myself tends to be a lot quieter. And I love walking in the snow and like hearing the snow crunch under my feet, but like hardly anything else going on around me. Whereas in the summertime, there’s so much life that’s out and about and a lot of noise outside that I’ve come to really enjoy the quiet reflectiveness of winter. And it’s just not only helped me get in touch more with myself, you know, being indoors a little bit more, enjoying the quiet when I am outside, it allows me to slow down a little bit, and prepare for the lively seasons of spring and summer that lie ahead. And so by honoring and noticing how life all around me quiets down and slows down, it helps me get in touch with that in my own nature. And then, once life becomes more lively comes spring, then I’ll have the energy to be able to join that if you will. And that’s helped me cope with not complaining so much about the fact that it’s so darn cold.

Candice Wu 32:00

You’re really aligning with the cycle of the seasons, the cycle of the year. And also I hear you feeling gratitude for what it can bring that has lent into a more joyous outlook.

Heather Fraelick 32:17

Because before I tapped into this, I mean, I was just as miserable as the next person, you know, complaining about the winter, can’t wait for it to be over. And in the meantime, I found myself just like not enjoying my day. And it was like, I’m alive now. Why am I wasting my time, feeling bitter in this coldness? I felt cold inside as well and it just felt like a waste of time after a while.

Candice Wu 32:46

So let’s switch gears here a little bit and talk about your practice. You’ve talked a little bit about it already. But for all the wellness practitioners out there that might be listening as well. Something I know that a lot of practitioners are challenged with is how do they clear their energy or stay grounded or feel that they have solid boundaries that they’re not taking on the energies of their clients or their patients. What was your experience with that?

Heather Fraelick 33:19

That’s a great question. And that’s one that I know is still taking practice. And I think we’ll always will on at least in my experience.

Heather Fraelick 33:27

First and foremost, learning how to say no, was huge. I’ve noticed anytime I have overworked myself, it was next to impossible to stay centered. And when it is next to impossible to stay centered in my experience, the more I noticed my empathy on hyperdrive. I was exhausted. I would pick up other people’s emotions and not know how to process them myself. So saying no was huge, first and foremost. Next to that, I find that sleep, simple sleep, getting enough hours of sleep at night helped me immensely be able to process in my dreams, what has taken place so I can get ready for the next day. Salt baths have been huge. And anything I can do to stay centered, and once again as I shared before, that changes day to day for me. If it means that, you know, I have to go out with some friends, you know, on a Friday night and have a really good time, because I’ve been working so much and that good time helped balance me out a little bit, you know, to go into my next day, so be it. If it means eating — you know, having a cleanse, taking a cleanse, you know, nutritionally for a week, so be it. If it means, you know, upping my Yoga practice, that just really depends on what that is, and any given day. So doing what I can outside of my practice, to nourish myself with activities that I enjoy doing and whatever that may be in the moment, you know, may shift, and all those things help keep me centered. And when I’m centered and working with people from that place, it becomes a lot easier to naturally have those necessary boundaries that are needed as a practitioner working with clients.

Candice Wu 35:13

And so then, what do you do when you have picked up other people’s emotions or energies?

Heather Fraelick 35:19

It depends on the situation. Sometimes it’s as simple as letting the emotion run through me if I have to.

Heather Fraelick 35:28

There’s been a couple of times where I’ve been working in a session with people where there’s been intense crying that takes place from the client that I’m working with. And sometimes I will feel the emotion so heavily that I’ll just let some tears flow out as well. I won’t break down while I’m working with them, but just feeling what they’re experiencing, let it run through me so it can pass. Once again, staying centered in the manner that I shared with you just before and if it happens to be a really intense day, for example, where there’s a lot of heavy energy or intense energy of the people that I’m working with, I will definitely make sure and go home and not do work, go home, take a salt bath, write, paint, do anything I can that I enjoy to express what’s coming up and out of me, to be able to let that energy move through is what I found has been most helpful.

Heather Fraelick 36:24

Sometimes I will do some Shamanic practices, like having a ring of fire around me or picturing myself covered in rose petals. However, there are moments where I’m working with people and in the moment, I might lose that image in my head, and that’s when I connect with my spirituality and prayer. And I’ll just, you know, if I notice, I lose that visual image in my mind of the fire and the rose petals, I’ll just say a quick prayer and that tends to help center me right away. That’s just been my personal experience. Just saying I need help, or, you know, help move this through me or what can be done next, or whatever the words that may come to mind

Candice Wu 37:09

There’s so much acknowledgment on that. Like, it’s here, it helps me.

Heather Fraelick 37:12

Yeah.

Candice Wu 37:13

Yeah. So what types of challenges have you come across lately in your practice? I heard about saying no, right? Are there other things?

Heather Fraelick 37:23

Fortunately, there not a ton right at the moment, I would say, if the two things that come to the forefront of my mind is how to work with a clientele load that is thriving and overflowing, which I’m so grateful for. I didn’t expect my practice to get to this point where, you know, my schedule is booking out a month or two in advance. So I didn’t necessarily prepare for that. So I’m just taking it one step at a time, one day at a time, trying to do my best to accommodate my current clients and work with the quality that I bring to the table and go from there.

Candice Wu 38:05

Literally to the table.

Heather Fraelick 38:06

Yeah, exactly.

Heather Fraelick 38:08

And aside from that, you know, sitting with where I want to go next, you know, people have asked if I’m going to open up my own space, or if I’m planning on doing more teaching or whatever that may be, and just sitting with what is next, because I’m enjoying my experience so far in the moment that I haven’t really thought about that next step.

Candice Wu 38:33

Sometimes it’s just good to just stay in.

Heather Fraelick 38:36

It is and honestly, it’s so easy to get seduced by, in my experience, overachieving, that actually just enjoying where I’m at right now feels very unfamiliar to me, yet, needed.

Candice Wu 38:54

You know, it’s like, we all want to achieve this good feeling and yet, when we get there, we keep running forward, and we don’t stay and feel into it sometimes,

Heather Fraelick 39:04

Right, and then you miss it. And so, I’m really doing what I can right now just to relish in where I’m at, and enjoy it, for what it is, and I have a feeling the next step will be shown to me. That’s my feeling and I trust that.

Candice Wu 39:20

I’m wondering what advice you have for practitioners, maybe in your field or in other wellness fields that are starting off?

Heather Fraelick 39:27

My main advice would be just to take it one day at a time, one foot in front of the other and do the best that you can with what is right in front of you. Yes, if you have a big picture, you know, have that in mind. But it’s really, you know, take that day to day and give it the best you’ve got. And honestly, I don’t have a magic business formula. I’ve been asked before, how did I create a successful practice. I don’t think it was just solely me creating it. It was definitely cocreated by support seen and unseen around me. I had many dear friends, talented friends help me start off, help me get my website going, help me understand small little things in business up into larger things. Like, for example, like, make sure to get back to clients within 24 hours, little things like that.

Heather Fraelick 39:42

And all that I really did is just really put one foot in front of the other. Answer the emails the day that I had to answer them. Work with the clients I had on my schedule, get back to clients who had contacted me. And then it just grew from there and pay attention to what is going on around you. Pay attention to what may come up in conversation with friends of yours, that might give you an “aha” moment of like, Oh, I need to move in this direction. Oh, maybe I need to offer this at my practice, that feels right. Oh, look at this natural connection that’s happening with this person, what could come up that really paying attention to that too, because that’s something that I had noticed that really helped me along through meeting people that I got to collaborate with along the way. And through those collaborations, clients that I’ve met, or other practitioners that I’ve been able to come in contact with, to refer clients to, there’s an abundance of possibilities out there, if you’re willing to pay attention.

Candice Wu 41:20

That’s such a good reminder. And the one foot in front of the other, just taking one step, even myself have found that I have, sometimes I have this grand vision and because I’m also intuitive, I feel it for myself, it’s an, you know, practicing visualization, sometimes it’s right there. And I can pressure myself to have to be there now. But there’s a whole journey from here to there and I can be hard on myself sometimes. What do you do when you’re hard on yourself or when you find that self-critic come up?

Heather Fraelick 41:59

Oh my gosh, that self-critic can be so relentless.

Heather Fraelick 42:03

Yeah, you know, that’s, personally, that’s when I turned to spirituality. That’s when I feel like I surrender and just pray about it. I don’t mean to sound pious, but I just feel like, I recognize it in myself and then I just sort of give it up to the creator that I feel connected with, in the sense of just, I’m feeling this right now help me, you know, and I noticed like when I take the weight off of my own shoulders, and just give it up and let it go, I feel like I’m able to notice in the moment what I have now, and that gratitude grows. And then I noticed that gratitude growing and what comes to me, later on, has been nothing short of miraculous. And I’ll give you an example.

Heather Fraelick 42:51

I was talking with a dear friend of mine, where one day I was saying, I was in that day where I had this grand vision. But it wasn’t necessarily a vision where I can literally see in my mind’s eye of what that was, but I felt it. I felt so expansive and alive and just large and shining brightly. I didn’t know what to do with myself, you know, so I was talking with a girlfriend of mine about that. And, like, Heather, just relish in what you’re feeling, you know, what do you want to do right now? Like, I want to go dance, so I danced. And I just kept enjoying this feeling that was coming over me.

Heather Fraelick 43:25

And then a week later, I received in a Facebook message from the director of massage school that I had gone to and was like, Hey, would you like to teach Myofascial release, you know, just to fill in for one of our teachers that’s out healing right now? And I was like, of course, you know, and I felt like the vibration of him asking me that, match the vibration of what I was feeling that day. And there have been so many circumstances that have happened throughout my years, especially when I started going off on my own as an individual practitioner, that’s happened time and time again.

Candice Wu 44:01

Heather, I believe that each of us, each of our lives, is an expression of some message, some gift, what do you feel that is for you?

Heather Fraelick 44:10

So that has shifted for me quite a bit over the years. Whereas before, especially when I was a dancer, and even to this day, I noticed I can get an over ambition attack and working so hard to achieve my goals. That’s what I was like as a dancer and I was working my body to the bone to the point where I injured myself so many times that I couldn’t even do or enjoy what I loved the most at that time, which was to dance.

Heather Fraelick 44:41

And so while I’ve gone through my own healing journey, and have received my own body work and have worked through some challenges on the, you know, mental, emotional, and spiritual levels, I’m able to enjoy my life and enjoy my experiences now. I’m able to enjoy dance again, because my body doesn’t hurt so much. So what I really feel that my life is about and what I have to bring to the table, if you will, is enjoying my time here on this earth and I notice when I enjoy myself more, the best of myself, I’m able to naturally bring to other people. And this is reminding me too, some people have pointed this out to me, my last name, Fraelick, means joy. And some of my friends had pointed that out to me when I was going through challenging times. And I really think that that’s a huge part of my life right now is living that last name.

Candice Wu 45:37

That’s powerful and it’s so deep. And I’m just thrilled for you that you just connect with it so well. And thank you for that reminder.

Heather Fraelick 45:46

Thank you. I’m grateful to have connected with that as well because that was eluding me for a long time.

Candice Wu 45:53

Well, thank you so much, Heather. It’s been such a pleasure and I appreciate you.

Heather Fraelick 45:58

Thank you, Candice. I appreciate you too.

Candice Wu 46:01

Now with over a decade of massage therapy experience, over two decades of professional dance and movement education experience, and women’s facilitation training, Heather brings forth an intuitive blend of bodywork modalities to tailor each of her sessions to meet her clients’ individual needs. And I know this from personal experience. It is fabulous working with Heather.

Candice Wu 46:22

She primarily draws from Myofascial release, deep tissue massage therapy, cranial sacral work, Reiki, and reflexology. Many of our clients are those experiencing chronic pain, neck and shoulder injuries, headaches, low back pain, and plantar fasciitis. And she offers annual circles to support women on their healing journey.

Candice Wu 46:45

She also recently started teaching Myofascial release classes at her alma mater, the new school for massage, and what I love about Heather is how she incorporates the spiritual and emotional aspects if you bring those to her.

Candice Wu 46:57

And before I leave today, I’d like to thank you for listening and invite you to subscribe to the weekly Embody Podcast at CandiceWu.com/podcast or learn more about me get lots of free resources on embodiment and healing, meditations and more by going to CandiceWu.com/embody. See you next time on the Embody Podcast.