Candice Wu 0:00

This episode is about the deep mystery of life, energetic transmissions and downloads that I’ve been receiving, things that you cannot explain, and I talked about past life memory, coming up through the experience of my elbow.

Candice Wu 0:18

Hello and welcome. You’re listening to the Embody Podcast, a show about remembering and embodying your true nature, inner wisdom, embodied healing, and self-love. My name is Candice Wu, and I’m a holistic healing facilitator, intuitive coach, and artist, sharing my personal journey of vulnerability, offering meditations and guided healing support, and having co-creative conversations with healers and wellness practitioners from all over the world.

Candice Wu 0:52

Here’s a trigger warning for this episode. In this episode, I talk about rape, violence, interracial conflict, the uterus and vagina, and different past life experiences that come up around this. If those are sensitive to you or you’re not interested, you can feel free to jump to the experientials that are connected with this episode or you can look on the show notes and find where to jump in at the places that are past these topics, and if you are clicking on your, the thing you listen to, for podcasting, if you have some sort of app, sometimes you can see the different time markers and stamps, the titles for each section, and you can skip past to pass where the disclaimer points are the trigger warning points are.

Candice Wu 1:44

In this episode, I talk about things that I cannot prove, things I don’t have evidence for, except for me, and my being, my knowing and my body communicating that it’s resonating. I talk about past life, experiences a particular past life memory that connects itself to so many different memories and experiences I have in the present life, that all seemed to make sense to me, but you may be listening and thinking, well, I don’t believe in past life experiences, you don’t have to. It’s good to be skeptical, and also tune into what you feel. It’s also good to be able to let the mindset to the side, the mental logic so that you can receive something else if that’s interesting for you, but regardless of whether you believe in past life experiences, you might be interested in the story of how I brought some healing to my elbow, into my uterus, and the different things that connected up with.

Candice Wu 2:55

Later in the episode, I talk about the mystery of life, that is you and being in your specific energetic signature, what you were born to be in this life, and connecting with different ways of knowing. So, let’s jump in.

Candice Wu 3:14

Last week, I spoke about how I’ve been working with my elbow, there has been some pain there since mid-January, end of January when I was in Ireland, and the feeling I had at that time was that it just happened very quickly. It was nothing I particularly did, it seemed, physically. But suddenly, I had this very sharp and also deep pain in my elbow, right at the joint, which when I did certain movements, like twisted my arm, palm face down, and as far as it could go, it would be painful or lifting something a certain way, like grabbing something and lifting it upwards would be painful.

Candice Wu 3:58

So, all these different movements, and I recall a time when way back, I don’t know, 15 years ago, if something in my body would feel funny, I’d tell someone and they might say to me, “Well, just don’t do that movement.” And that just, it just didn’t really make sense to me, or like stop doing that, that thing that you’re doing, and I think there’s a place for seeing maybe a repetitive pattern and movements of your body and doing something to balance that or doing something different. But I also felt the instant that this feeling came into my body, it also connected with my low back, the left low back. And it felt like, “Whoa!” This is obviously very emotional, spiritual, and at this point in my life, I’m attuned to all that anyway, so, it was clear that something wanted to reach me, and to be known through me something really deep that wanted to surface so that I could claim even more of myself and know myself more deeply if wanted to be healed.

Candice Wu 5:11

So, if you listen to that last episode, Conversations with the Body, or if you didn’t listen, and you want to it’s at CandiceWu.com/conversationswiththebody. I talked briefly about some of the experiences that came out of the elbow, and that it’s still painfully there. It’s far less than before, and I also offer different experientials that you could use to connect with your body, to support your relationship with your body and turning on all of the different languages, that your spirit, soul, body, mind and heart use to communicate with you, to tell you what’s going on or to inform you of what it wants you to look at, in your present life or in your past, something that wants to be resolved, and the more we can tune in with that, with all the different ways that our being is communicating to us more we can listen. I find that we’re in the flow of our lives and who we are, we’re in harmony with all the parts of ourselves, they have a voice and a place.

Candice Wu 6:26

Do you think about being on a team, and whether that’s like a sports team or a work team, and if someone isn’t getting heard, that’s trying to say something very important. We’re trying to offer something and people ignore this one person, the whole team is out of balance, there’s a tension, there’s a resistance against some part, and I liken that to our inner parts, and who we are, all the parts of us, and all the ways that we are trying to be communicated to from deep inner parts of ourselves. If we’re resisting certain things that are speaking to us, then there’s a tension inside, that’s dis-ease. We don’t have to listen and believe everything, but to be able to witness it, and put it in its right place, in terms of sort out, if that’s the truth, if that’s something that wants to be healed. If that’s just a floating thought, that really doesn’t have much weight in me, or if, “Wow, this thing, this thought or experience or sensation in my body is really crying loudly to me.” And it may be getting even more intense as we resist it.

Candice Wu 7:53

If we try to continue to resist what’s wanting to be heard, and just acknowledged, then it will find a way to become stronger and stronger and fortify itself or find a way that will hit you in the place that you listen. Sometimes, that places hitting you financially, or sometimes it’s hitting you in the body where some part of your physical body starts to be in pain or not function as well, and we have to pay attention or we become exhausted or all of the above. Where it shows up in a relationship, and there’s conflict, a certain kind, that wants to direct you to look at something in yourself, something that’s just desperately asking us to look so we can feel even more empowered inside and responsible for our own lives, responsible for our energies.

Candice Wu 8:53

So, that episode “Conversations with the Body: Body Love and Multi-Language — EP82” was two weeks ago, and I want to follow this thread what’s going on with my elbow, and follow-up here. I saw my acupuncturist in Chicago twice. His name is Brent Garcia. He’s excellent. He is also on the podcast, early on in the podcast. He and I explored shame together. We talked about the light and the dark, and the fullness of our experience and what wants to be seen through us, and he spoke about his way of acupuncture, which is a Japanese way. It’s very gentle, and he’s super energetic, so does some Reiki sometimes, and it’s also a licensed massage therapist. He has a very full dimension in him of his work, and yet stays within the bounds of his work. But you know, me being me, I bring all sorts of stuff, and his presence is just the right presence for me at the moment to reveal, to allow things to reveal, and that is exactly what happened.

Candice Wu 10:06

In the two sessions a lot came up with my elbow, and I was ready for it. But I want to start the story with before I got to Chicago. If you’ve been following my Instagram, you might have seen that I decided to take on a project, I bought a used manual car, I really liked driving a manual, it just helps me feel like I can learn something and master something, and I have a different sense of creativity and control, and I created a hatchback camper. So, I created a sort of like a platform. So, there was flatness with plywood and hinges, and have a foam mattress that goes in the back and made curtains all sorts of stuff. So, I decided to take my mobile home on an adventure and go camping before I got to Chicago, like on the way to Chicago. I chose a campsite that had rustic sites and improved sites, which I think had like a bunch of electricity and better bathrooms, etc. So, something in me was like, I want to have the most rustic experience I can possibly have, I want to just be in the middle of the woods, and I think I’ve always had that deep yearning like to be in the stillness of the woods and to be at home in nature, submerged, immersed.

Candice Wu 11:38

And so it was a beautiful idea, until it got to be like 11 pm and it was pitch black, and I was hearing noises all around me. So, this is me sleeping in my car, and having to make the decision whether to close all the windows and lock doors or keep these sort of like window socks that I have on, which are like fabric screens that allow air to come through but no mosquitoes. So, I chose to keep those on with the doors locked, but really, you know, someone could just reach right through or move the fabric. If they knew to do that or once they saw what the scenario was, and I chose this because I could then hear if anyone was coming along, anyone coming close. I thought about leaving but I had set up all my stuff. It just felt also scary to pack up all my stuff at that moment and leave, and some deep part of me knew that everything was going to be okay, and another part of me knew well, I didn’t really know that.

Candice Wu 12:54

And at some point, I decided to stick it out. It was probably when I found my steak knife and decided to sleep with that in my hands. I didn’t sleep very well. The nervous system was pretty afraid but some grounding kept me okay, and eventually, at like three o’clock I felt like: “Okay, I passed the witching hour. I have gotten through it. And I’m going to be okay”, so I ended up sleeping the rest of the night. But what was coming up, before I could manage to fall asleep, I was just allowing what wanted to be seen about this to emerge, and what was coming up was me asking myself, “Well, what do I really fear? Is it the animals? What is it, is it people?” And it was the feeling that if anything happened to me, that nobody would know, that it was so distant, it was distant enough that people wouldn’t be able to hear me or come help.

Candice Wu 14:02

And then, I felt the specific fear, I had the image of a man coming right up close to me, like to the right side of my body about a foot away from my head, and the fear was that I would be hurt, taken and brutally raped. Perhaps a lot of women or smaller people, I don’t know. I can’t really speak for everyone else, but perhaps many other people also have that fear. But this, this fear, this image is very specific for me. And it’s something that while I was on this camping trip, I realized has been with me since I was young. When I was like five or six, I remember having the same fear, exactly, and a man coming right up close to me and coming up too close for me to have a realized too quick. So, I just took note of that. Hmm, interesting. You know, I’ve had this fear forever, like a terrifying fear when I was younger. When I was at home, I would be afraid that someone will come through the window or come from the closet. Yes, maybe normal childhood fears but a very specific brand and flavor.

Candice Wu 15:22

So, as I noted that I got to Chicago, had some beautiful workshops, constellations workshops, and restorative yoga and somatic experiencing workshop at the neighborhood studio Bloom Yoga Studio I love, and the family constellations workshops were the restore the love the flow of love, workshops, and they were just deep and powerful, and through this, I’d seen my acupuncturist, Brent. So, this is when it all comes together I love, it’s just really amazing when many pieces of things that I’ve sensed or noticed, and maybe even didn’t notice before but realized later all come together.

Candice Wu 16:08

I talked about an experience of a past life trauma, where I, after falling off a horse twice while I was in Spain last year, it revealed itself. I think I talked about it in the episode Past Life Trauma: Unfolding Freedom, it’s Episode 49, and you can find it at CandiceWu.com/ep49. That is part of the puzzle here because what I learned from my healing work around a falling off a horse twice, I knew that I wanted to heal to make sure that I wasn’t going to take on or allow something to manifest this trauma, if you can be really present with what’s happening and allow what wants to happen right there and be with it or at least as early as possible from an incident, and you can have a resource and allow the body to do what it needs to and it doesn’t become trauma.

Candice Wu 17:09

Trauma is the experience of overwhelm that stops the process from happening and manifest later so we can complete it. That’s one way to look at it, and so I was working with the falls and realizing that it was a much deeper issue and realized that it was a past life experience of being with a horse and then my healer had intuited that I got really stubborn about a decision, and other people were telling me what to do and I got just, you know, got on my horse and ran away, but I got in trouble, and it wasn’t the horse that got me in trouble or being with the horse. But that somewhere in this experience, I had died, is what I knew and what I felt. But it wasn’t really important at that time to know what the other details were. I just got what I needed at that time. Well, that experience came back and it wove into what was going on in my elbow.

Candice Wu 18:23

So, while I was in my session with Brent, at some point, he was doing some gentle touch on my arm, my right arm, and elbow, and it was really fascinating to allow this feeling that my hand my arm wanted to reach out to a man, specifically a male energy or person, and to know that they were actually there, to feel the kindness of this male presence, that my acupuncturist embodied at that moment for me. And what revealed after that were the words “you left me to die, you left me to die” and so I got curious about where that came from, and I’ve certainly had my share a whole armful, one could say, of attachment issues and relational trauma with my father. And maybe, those words applied there — “you left me to die” — in a way, yes, and in a way, not quite like there’s a different angle of you left me to die.

Candice Wu 19:37

So, I stayed with it kept feeling it, and I could feel the pain of that, the pain and the hurt and the betrayal. Eventually, Brent left the room, leaving me with some needles in very poignant spots, and I stayed with my imagination and what was coming to me, and I know when something feels like it’s hitting the spot when my body responds, when my emotions come flooding in or some sensation happens inside that is the resonance of my body saying, “Yes, there’s a memory of this. Yes, this, these are the words that can describe what happened or what I went through.” I don’t always say, all right, yep, these are exactly the facts, and I don’t know that it’s important in my book, at least, they don’t, these things don’t seem of consequential importance in this life. You know, if I feel I have a past life experience, and it gave me healing to recognize it, and it gives me strength to let it work its way through imagine, imagine what I wanted to happen instead or notice what did happen and honor, and then that whole thing releases in my body, if I stay with the emotions and the sensation, and I feel more whole afterward, and I also feel like I can then take with me the embodied wisdom that was of that life.

Candice Wu 21:20

All this to say, maybe these things didn’t happen, and yet doesn’t really matter because I feel like I have more of myself, and I feel like it can be part of my story. It is part of my story. So, back to me lying on the table here with some needles in my body, and I realized that I’m holding my dad’s hand, not my dad in this life, in a past life, in some life, another world. It feels that we’re Cherokee, it feels that we’re Native American. This is my tribe. He’s my father. He’s an important man. It feels like I’m saying to him, “You left me to die. You left me to die.” And as I stayed with it, and pictured him, I actually heard in me sensed in me and heard the words, “Yes, you’re right, I left you to the wolf. That’s only because we had to run, that’s only because we had to survive and fight, and you couldn’t do that. You were really far gone.”

Candice Wu 22:38

So, that got my curiosity, like, oh, it felt true, and why was I so far gone? And I felt myself lying, like in a pool of my own blood, and then as I looked, he was to my right, as I look to the left, I saw in sort of a flash of different parts all at once. Different parts of the timeline of the story all at once, that I was, in fact, brutally raped, and it was by a white man, and on our lands, and several men that he was with. But there was one particular one that lead the pack, and no one was around, that would help me. No one was around.

Candice Wu 23:34

So, that brought me back to the feeling of camping, and my fear that if nobody was around, no one could help me and I would die, I could die, and here it was, the real terror, the real thing that seemed to have happened, this thing that I feel has happened in a past experience that nobody was around, and my body was desecrated. It was as if the white man knew to come after the heart of the tribe, the uterus, the creative center, the young life of the tribe, which was me or, you know, I was one of them, and I felt like my uterus and vagina was like, desecrated, taken, and the words like, “You took something from me,” came up. And interestingly enough, those words came to me, those were the words I used in a recent experience with someone in a relationship, and I was surprised that I use those words, because I don’t really believe that they, that person was taking something from me, but it just came out out of my mouth, like you took something from me, and you took it and now, I can’t have it back, like it’s gone.

Candice Wu 25:10

So, there, I just like, I realized, wow, there’s another piece of the puzzle, like, this is why I felt this way, and it was in particular, that this particular relationship I had in the present day was with a white man, and there was a racial component that felt like it was coming alive, something, some bond that I had that wanted to be seen in some way or worked out in some way. And I don’t know, you know, some people might say that, maybe that was the same person that was in the past life that rapes me, I, my mind didn’t go that far, and it just went there in this moment, as I’m speaking to this now, which I’ll have to feel into later to see if that feels accurate, maybe, wow, just felt in a little bit. We’ll see, but there was a lot of anger about, like, aspects of our interactions that I felt were violent, and when I saw this image lying on the table, and my acupuncturist, I felt like, “Oh, I get it now, I get why I was trying to work that out with this person in my life right now.”

Candice Wu 26:37

So, back to the story. To rewind a bit to piece it all together, I was riding my horse, a horse that I was very in tune with, and I had gone flying off on my own, out to the middle of nowhere, perhaps or out somewhere I hadn’t been. Regardless, it was alone, and I was attacked, brutally and raped, and it came to me as, like a huge blindside, I was just not aware, because I think I was just so focused on what I wanted to do that it felt like this man came up to me really close, really fast, and I couldn’t stop it. And after that, during that my horse ran off, I have the feel that I’m a little uncertain what happened there and may not be important, I could have been off of my horse, and we just resting and then my horse ran off because he sensed danger or perhaps I was on my horse, and this all happened and maybe I got wounded or something and fell off or got ripped off the horse.

Candice Wu 27:59

Either way, the horse ran off scared, and I was with this man, this white man, and experiencing this extreme violence and rape, and hurt and power over me. And in that moment, I felt myself experience that nobody, nobody can hear me but I had the wisdom to talk to the horses, I kept my connection with my horse inside, can’t help come back for me. I can feel it now in my words, I can feel it in my heart, like how beautiful that connection is, but also how painful the experience was, and I feel that connection of psychic ability with horses, like being in the spirit world and connecting with communication that is not directly, like right next to her and words but in a knowing in an energy. That was something that Sara Fancy reminded me of. She’s the horse constellations person that I spent five days with and with her horses, her herd there, and she one day, just said to me, “Oh, yeah, you can just talk with her psychically and ask if they want to be touched.”

Candice Wu 29:31

And it felt like it opened up this whole knowing of, well, I know how to do this, like, this is something that’s second nature to me, and this image of this past life experiences really clear as to why, because I was so in connection with my horse and the horses, and they were part of me and part of the land, part of the tribe, and we love each other. And so, I here I am telling my horse, like, “Go get help coconut, my father, and he did, and that’s when my father found me on the floor, left to die, and he in the clarity of the spirit, I hear the words from him saying, ”I didn’t really leave you to die. He did.“ Like, the white man did, and we had to protect the family. And I heard myself say, ”Dad, you haven’t left anything.“ There’s a feeling in myself that the white man took something from me, and my recovery, in that moment, the restoration and healing in this moment of me, more so, in the present-day spirit connection, said, ”I have life, I have everything and you have life.” Please know that I am alive, and they can never take who I am away and who you are away, and I felt the deep breath, a lot of tears in grief. I didn’t quite feel much anger. At this time, I think in my present-day life, I had spent a lot of time feeling anger, lately, and in a long span of my life working with anger. So, here I just felt a lot of grief and a lot of pain.

Candice Wu 31:54

There are also things I haven’t mentioned yet. If you listen to my podcast about a year and a half ago, when I was in Bali, the one that is on spiritual crisis, it’s Episode 13, CandiceWu.com/ep13. This episode is where I talked about having a UTI and all this stuff that was coming up around from the feminine and how it was moving through my body and anger, and there have been a few things that have come up lately where there I felt some tension in my uterus, and as I’ve talked to it, it has said, “Let me be free, you know, stop trying to constrict me.” And there’s a lot of insight that is coming from those words, more than I’m going to say here. It can feel very private, to speak to what that means at the moment, but there is a thing I can say now is that feels like my uterus, my body, my vagina, my whole being, my heart wants to be able to love totally freely and without fear, like resolving the fear, and then being in the free-loving, and to acknowledge all that I love. And that one love doesn’t overtake another or cancel another out, but that it all can exist together, the circle for love is much greater.

Candice Wu 33:35

So, all of this stuff that was coming to me on the table, and my acupuncturist was really connecting with all these different parts of my body that were speaking, not just my elbow, but my uterus, all these different experiences that were part of the puzzle piece to this one past life experience that seems to complete, complete something in me, and also gives me a lot more clarity. I’ve always had a connection with Native American ceremony, ritual, and tradition. Whether or not I know, like what it is or not, I haven’t been very, very studied in it, but have connected and picked up things along the way, and they just feel like home to me. They feel really like something I’ve known before, and this gives me a lot clearer picture of why and how I was so connected with the land and tribe, animals, plants, that’s very much in my being.

Candice Wu 34:50

So, I feel a lot more at peace to the past part of me, feels more resolved and has reclaimed what felt like it was taken from me, and I feel really resourced by the horses, also by men, my father, and the tribe, the women as well, and the earth. I feel that the earth took care of me and saw me, saw the experience, the animals heard, psychically heard the experience, knew the experience even though they weren’t there witnessing it. What I mean is that the violence and the rape, and also I felt like I couldn’t scream, in that experience, I couldn’t even shout, and I wondered why and I felt my neck being sliced, I felt like my vocal cords were cut out. And yeah, I couldn’t scream, and that’s something that I have connected within a lot of different places like culture, really being Chinese, there’s a lot of silence, not being able to speak for different reasons, you know, people died when they spoke out, but in this recovery, I realized that my creative force isn’t actually taken away, even though in this life, I died this way, and there’s some cellular memory of my body that remembers this, and felt like I had been lost in that. But like, I as a whole being of love and awareness and consciousness. I, as this particular individual soul, had been taken, and parts of me have been taken, and that really isn’t true, even though the experience was that in that moment, but now I feel a lot of restoration, I feel I could never die, I feel I am always alive, and I will live on and you will live on.

Candice Wu 37:12

This is my message to my father and that life, you will have more, and that really gave me a lot of life and breath, grief moving, and I can feel the pain of the lineages, the white man, white patriarchy, white fear, tribe, the tribe’s fear and violence and protection. This is not all to blame white men at all. It’s really to show, to illuminate the violence, pain, and fear that is living in all of us, with that, particularly, I experienced through my body and that life. So, I recognize you may or may not believe in past lives. This may sound “whoo” to you or who knows what. If you’ve listened this far, that means something, that’s interesting but I can understand if this is not your cup of tea. And I’m about to talk about a few more out there things perhaps, you know, in a past self of mine, I would have thought these things were really out there but also knowing that feeling this knowing that I think this is true, but I have no proof or I have no, you know, I can’t quite, I just can’t prove it, but more things I can’t prove in this episode.

Candice Wu 38:52

Shortly after having this experience, I met up with Darshan Mendoza, who is a beautiful, beautiful person living in Hawaii, and she experienced the volcano erupt a year ago and wrote a book about it. I have interviewed her for the podcast, she, her interviews coming up in a couple of weeks, like the end of August, so, stay tuned for that. You can find it at CandiceWu.com/darshan, once that publishes, but I met up with her in Chicago, she was there what amazing timing, for me, for us, and among many things we talked about, she, after hearing the story of my past life, and the healing that’s coming through, told me about the book, The Sophia Code. It’s written by Kaia Ra who channels information and has experienced some very brutal experiences through sex trafficking when she was just a young kid, and yet has been able to still keep her ability to channel very clear. And one day, a voice came to her it was brutal, really loud, and it was saying, “I’m Sophia”, and Sophia is the Divine Feminine, creator, Sophia Gaia, Mother Earth, the feminine Christ consciousness.

Candice Wu 40:31

And so, I’m listening to this book on Audible, and it’s a bit robotic, the way she speaks on it, I think maybe she was trying to say it this way or something, I’m not sure, but still, since she’s set this book with a vibration of what she received in her interactions and channeling, I’m feeling an incredible energetic transmission. I’m receiving this like, download, it’s like, you could just hit download, and then it loads in, you know, you’re watching the percentage of something downloading, and as it goes higher and higher, like I’m feeling it in my body, it’s pushing out all of what the fears, the grief, the suffering that was in its place before, and filling my body with more knowing and love.

Candice Wu 41:25

So, what I’m getting from this, specifically, is that it’s not words that I, or thoughts that I haven’t heard before, or thought about before taking in before, but from this specific frequency, it’s extremely powerful. It’s different for me, it’s bringing another dimension in, and the words that are specifically bringing me more are the words, Sophia Dragon Tribe, and Star Nation, the White Buffalo Woman, all these words that she’s bringing in these words that signify an energy in a whole magical level of being and love that’s coming through. All that’s giving me some sense of memory, it feels like I know I’m a dragon, feels like, I’m part of Dragon Tribe, and Star Nation like this is my people, and all that might sound crazy to you, I remember hearing the author say, somewhere like, “I can’t talk about Sophia dragon tribe, my career is going to go down the tubes,” and yet, her message was, the message she got was, I have to this is important, and this is the way it needs to be transmitted, and that’s how I feel at the moment, I don’t quite totally understand everything, mentally.

Candice Wu 42:56

And in the last several years, I’ve let go of that need to mentally or rationally, make logic of something, and that’s really served me well. I know that the brain is important and the mind is very important. When we think through things, sometimes, that really helps us, and I’ve spent a lot of years and time doing that in my life but I also used it too much, I overcompensated for my sense, in my heart and in my spirit, my intuition by using my brain to rationalize and analyze, make sense of and also problems solve, that now I’m really enjoying just tuning in, sensing the energy of something and using the other ways of intuitive and knowing that I do have, we all have. And that is a way of knowing that gives me, often gives me the right way for me. Sometimes, I say yes or no to things that it doesn’t even make sense, and I’ve let go of that need to make sense of something, and it’s not quite coming from impulse, or irrationality, even though it’s quite irrational, right? Maybe you could call it that, and really, but it’s not impulse or perhaps a traumatized part of me.

Candice Wu 44:21

Although, sometimes, it’s hard to tell the difference, if it’s some part of me that feels traumatized and needing something or if it’s an intuitive part that says, from a very clear, pure place, yes or no for me about something or this is the answer for me, or sometimes I find out later that some of my decisions weren’t so aligned at the source of me, but aligned to some traumatized part of me or part that wanted some sort of retribution for some past thing, something that’s living in the past. But I’m really encouraging you out there, if this is interesting for you, to deepen and cultivate the part of you that has knowing of other forms than the mind, than the mental logic. Sensing, tuning in, using the many languages and tongues, the multi-dimensional ways that our body communicates our hearts, the ways that we may know something without being able to explain it, and to trust yourself, so that you can learn to deepen in your trust. It gives us many ways of moving about the world. It connects us to the energetic, the spiritual, the more subtle ways of being. It connects us to animals, connects us to nature and talking with the plants and earth, talking with other beings and energies.

Candice Wu 45:58

And if you, I swear, if my younger self, listen to these podcasts, probably maybe more like my 20-year old self, high school, college self, she would be like, WTF like, What are you talking about? You don’t make any sense. This can’t be that like, judgment, just judgment. But now, I’m all about it, and it’s really served me very well to trust the knowing I have and see the outcome and to see where I may need to fine-tune and refine my listening in myself or what part of me was showing up so that I can know that part better, and then be clearer about the boundaries, like, is that the part of me that was wounded or is this a more, a deeper knowing of some sort that is not from the wound, from my wisdom.

Candice Wu 47:01

So, as I’m listening to The Sophia Code, I’m receiving a more fortified sense that we’re here to do life uniquely, and specifically, the way that our energetic signature and blueprint shows us, and that is always a free will and choice that is always from our sovereignty. She uses that word a lot in the book, that we’re meant to know our deep creative sovereignty, and the sovereignty of all beings, including the animals and the land, and to remember that we are sovereign, to remember that we have freedom, and all of the conditioning and belief sets and limits that we think are here and that we have manifested.

Candice Wu 47:54

That’s actually not the entire reality of things, but we’re deeply the love that is of all things, and the language that she’s using is that we are Sophia. We are the energy of the feminine Christ consciousness that encompasses every single energy, even masculine energy, and give life is love, is the pure being and consciousness that each of us are. I love when things that resonate with me deeply also align with other things that resonate deeply in the language set of the Vedas and Tantra have always brought me to that feeling and that knowing of freedom, all possibility, and that we are able to choose all possibility, even though our body and our energy systems, right now, have collected in a certain way and propel us in a certain way of being. That there’s more that we are, and that more gives us the ability to heal what we think we are, that we are really not.

Candice Wu 49:26

In this book, she also channels seven or eight different energies archetypes, some who have come into earth form as humans for some time, but who have been guides or mentors for all those who want to heal, or people who were interested in, in that particular energy like Mary Magdalene or Kuan Yin, Tara, and she talks about the Sophia Dragon Tribe, White Buffalo Women, as I mentioned, a couple of others. Some of the pieces of those stories and some of what she says is interesting to me and really light something up in me and other parts don’t resonate at all, parts where the, where she talks about chakras. From what I’ve learned in Sanskrit studies, the word is chakras, and the sound is chakra. And so, when she said chakras, I almost was like, “What has she been saying?” I don’t get it. Which well, you know, I can still let it bypass the part of me that says, I don’t get it, but at the same time, it wasn’t clicking into my system, and I think that was part of why.

Candice Wu 50:52

So, there are parts of the book that really don’t fit for me right now, but right in the beginning, even in the preface, I was already crying, and so, I knew I was receiving something and it was allowing me to release other things out doubts and fears that had been living in me. So, do you experience this, do you experience things you cannot explain, but that you know, there’s something there for you? Things that give you an energetic upgrade or download, and the sort of space when you receive something new that really is enlivening you in a way, but also feels like you’re in major construction because it dismantles other parts of you, and grief can come through anger, hurt, other emotions, all of that coming to the surface to be felt, honored and continue to move and flow. It wants to move out, to experience a sense of knowing inside of you and how, what does it feel like when you know something? Or when you feel something is not right for you, it’s a little bit off? What’s that like for you?

Candice Wu 52:19

And are there things in your life that are going on right now or ways you’re being, things you’re involved with, or relationships where you feel something’s not quite right for you? It’s hard to pinpoint, maybe, or maybe it’s speaking loudly, screaming at you. This is a deep mystery. Life is a deep mystery, and when we try to rationalize everything, or make it fit into our ego, egoic mind, it collapses, what we experience into something flatter, one that no longer has the dimension of magic or mystery, the beauty, the unknown and unseen. And to do that, we must know something, we, it’s funny, we must say we don’t know. We must acknowledge and be in a place of not knowing anything at all, and being able to scrap what we do think we know or have known before, to know something more.

Candice Wu 53:33

So, while I say I know all of this and what happened, and all that I’m also open to it being washed away with something else and a new knowing to come, and also that it integrates so that it’s just a part of my body, my body wisdom, my embodied knowledge, me as a moving being, moving body of wisdom and also different possibilities, pleasant and unpleasant. So, how do you support yourself in embracing the mystery of life? What do you do that connects you with what’s unseen and what’s beautiful, and what’s truly you? Right now, for me, it’s just connecting with the words and the vibration that Sophia Dragon Tribe brings, and Star Nation and I’ve just been opening and asking out loud, sometimes, and in me in a sense prayer and meditating with, just saying, “Star Nation, show me what I need to know, show me what’s next. I receive you. I open to the wisdom that’s here, I open to all of it, open to experiencing.”

Candice Wu 55:15

This might be similar if you have connection with certain animals or ancestors or people in your life that are now, that if you feel they’re bringing something to you to learn, there’s a feeling of magic about the connection or maybe fear that shows you, that shows itself first that eventually wants to show you there’s something there for you.

Candice Wu 55:43

In the movie, Aqua Man, I love this part when he is about to do the big thing that he’s meant to do. I’m not going to say what that is, but he tells his mother, I’m scared, and she said, “Good, then you’re ready.” So, perhaps the fear is here showing you there’s something here for you, and that it does mean if you can feel the fear, you are ready for what’s coming and what’s next for this next opening or action on this journey of you being you, being at peace with yourself in harmony with yourself. Who you truly are, not all the belief sets that have accumulated the energies that have accumulated and collected itself to create your physical body and the aches and pains, and tensions that manifests itself as so you can see it, but the deeper you that wants to come through, the cells of your body that know they are loved somewhere and want to be reminded that you are loved. Let us embrace the deep mystery of life.

Candice Wu 57:12

Thank you so much for joining me today. It felt really alive and connected in sharing this episode. I invite you to connect with me if something inspires you or if you have questions, something didn’t rub you the right way, anything. If you feel compelled, I invite you to follow that. I’ll add a few healing experientials to this episode around embracing the mystery of life, around sensing and letting your mental logic be bypassed so that you can tune into knowing, not exactly sure what will emerge. So, you’ll just have to see later this week as it comes out or find it at the episode link at CandiceWu.com/deepmystery.

Candice Wu 58:12

If some of the topics in this episode interested you, you can also go to my website at CandiceWu.com/podcast to find other episodes that relate to these topics. Some of them include the episode about the Soul and Science of Trauma. You can find that at CandiceWu.com/ep32, Embracing All the Parts of You at CandiceWu.com/partswork. The episode Freedom and Expansion: The Terrifying Gifts of Spiritual and Existential Crisis AKA WTF is Going on? #AmIGoingCrazy? – EP13, that’s at CandiceWu.com/ep13, and the one I mentioned earlier, Past Life Trauma: Unfolding Freedom at CandiceWu.com/ep49.

Candice Wu 59:07

I also mentioned my acupuncturist, Brent Garcia, who is awesome. I totally recommend his work. It’s super gentle yet powerful, and you can listen to his podcast at CandiceWu.com/brent. I also mentioned anger, working with anger, you can find that podcast at CandiceWu.com/anger. Feel free also to join me on my newsletter that comes out one or two times a month. This is full of self-love notes, podcast episodes that are up to date, experiential, events, workshops, retreats, and experiences that you can join in on with me. You can find that at CandiceWu.com/embody.

Candice Wu 59:54

If you found that this podcast or the experientials or guests on the podcast have given you something, brought you in touch with something of yourself that felt important or inspires you to love yourself or anything that you connect with here, I would invite you to contribute back to the podcast and feed it, nourish it with your energy, and some donation that fits for you, feels aligned for you. You can find all that information at CandiceWu.com/patreon on how to contribute, what also rewards or gifts you can receive in return if you’d like something else that is a little bit extra, like the Embodied Healing Group or personalized meditations. And I just want you to know how much your words, you’re sharing, your contributions, all fuel me and praying each episode with love and ease.

Candice Wu 1:01:06

Thank you so much. Thank you so much for listening, and today I’ll leave you with a little bit of music as we close today. And as you take in the sense that you have about your life, being the mystery, your life being the way, you being the way.

Candice Wu 1:01:31

Thank you so much for joining me today, and see you next time on the Embody Podcast.

Introduction

This experimental is to support you in your knowing and your being, in the deep mystery of life that is you, and connecting with more of yourself, more of yourself than your mental logic and receiving messages from different parts of you, your body, your heart, your soul, your intuition, your thoughts as well.

Hello and welcome. You’re listening to the Embody Podcast, a show about remembering and embodying your true nature, inner wisdom, embodied healing, and self-love.

My name is Candice Wu, and I’m a holistic healing facilitator, intuitive coach, and artists sharing my personal journey of vulnerability, offering meditations and guided healing support, and co-creative conversations with healers and wellness practitioners from all over the world.

Inspiration for This Experiential

This experiential is inspired by the episode that is connected with around energetic downloads, things you cannot explain, sensing and knowing instead of logic, as well as past life experiences that emerged for me. It’s also connected with this sense of who we are as the way of our lives, who we are and aligning with specifically who we are in order to love ourselves the deepest that we can in this life. You can listen to the introductory episode at CandiceWu.com/deepmystery.

Let’s Begin

And now, let’s jump into this experiential.

Go ahead and find a place to sit or lie down to be with yourself. Feel free to touch your heart or belly. Feel your own resonance with yourself.

Notice where your mind is. Let yourself release your attention on any of the things that are in your outer world — work, school, if you have school, stressors, relationships, daily life tasks. Invite all of that energy to turn towards yourself with great love and power, strength, wholeness, and ask nothing of your body, your heart, and your mind right now.

Feel this space of asking nothing of yourself that there’s nothing here in this moment to do, nothing to accomplish. Feel what it’s like to be in your body, right now. Be with yourself at peace and in harmony.

Feel anything that’s coming up in you. Feel free to close your eyes if you haven’t already, as you go even deeper and as we openness space together with love completely surrounding us, circling us, filling the entire space that you’re in.

And with your breath receiving and drawing in the love surrounding you, let it fill your whole body, your heart, your energy. Let it touch every single cell of your body, reminding you, reminding each cell, tissue, muscle and organ, bone and the mind of who you are, that you are this love, letting every cell be reminded that you are love.

Let this connect with the core of your being that already knows you are love, the part of you on touched by conditioning and layers of beliefs and experiences that take you away from love, take you away from knowing and truth, only to remind you of a deeper truth and knowing that you love that is connected with all love.

And we invite our mental logic, the mind the analytical part of us to step to the side of it. We let it have an open door that lets more knowing and information come in and be seen even if the mind and the logic don’t understand.

Connect with this moment, this breath that connects you with the deep mystery of life. Connect with the space of not knowing and unknowing. Letting everything that you know or think take a rest, for now, letting your feeling sense and intuition, your body, letting that all be as you sense and feel. Making yourself available, making this space for more to be known more to reveal itself to you for what is already here to show itself.

Releasing Statements

Feel free to say in your mind or out loud, “I let go for this moment of my need to know. I am in the place of not knowing. It is safe to be in uncertainty and not knowing right now.”

And as you feel those words, allow any emotion, sensation or movement to come up. There may be parts of you that resist or feel scared, feel anxious or nervous or want to fight you.

Witness all those parts of you and feel or say the words, “I am open to the deep mystery of my life. I surrender to my life as the mystery of being.”

Say, “I forgive myself for judging myself for all the times in places I did not trust my life, and for all the times in places I forced my knowing to fit into rational logic where I may have cut-off parts of myself in order to make sense.”

Tune in and feel what these words evoke in your body right now, staying with any emotions that come up.

Track what’s happening in your body with a loving witness, a gentleness that allows you to keep seeing what’s here, feeling what’s here, and if there any other words or intentions that come up to you in this moment, say them to yourself or out loud as they come to you, anything that you’re doing wisdom wants you to acknowledge or say or be open to.

And as you connect with anything that comes up, maybe there’s nothing, that’s okay too. Stay with your body and feel your hips, feel your legs, feel any part of your body that helps you feel that you are here.

We’ll conclude with the words, “I am myself. It’s safe to be me, and I embrace myself fully or I begin to embrace myself fully.”

Notice how this experience is for you right now, and what happens for you, what images and emotions, what feeling or sensation in your body, what color, texture or feel that is inside, and come back to the loving presence that we called in in the beginning — the love that’s surrounding you, that we invite here and that already is, the part of you that already knows truth and already knows who you are, that you are love, and slowly come to this moment of honoring yourself.

Honoring Yourself

Honor this time and space you’ve taken, honor who you are. Appreciate who you are or what you can appreciate in this moment, and go to the simplest things, appreciating that you’re alive right now.

Thank yourself for being with yourself in this little space and time and slowly start to move your body or your hands to allow movement or self-touch that is soothing, connecting or calming, and as you open your eyes, notice the things around you that make you feel like yourself or support you — colors that you like objects that look pleasant, nature. Look at your surroundings and just feel that you’re here.

Closing

And as we close today, I’ll leave you with a little bit of music to bring an open the senses even more into the space that you’re in, this life, this body that is your vessel and temple that moves you through life and that you get to create with, you get to partner with in this deep mystery of life that is you.

Thank you so much for joining me today, and if you’re interested in checking out more healing experientials or meditations go to my website at CandiceWu.com/podcast. Also, there are interviews and experientials by other practitioners and guests.

It’s great to be here with you today, and see you next time on the Embody Podcast.

Candice Wu 0:00

This episode with special guest Monique Wheeler, a licensed acupuncturist and Chinese herbalist is about getting rid of emotional gunk, finding the root causes of disease through the human complexity, muscle testing, and essential oils and trauma, and traditional Chinese medicine.

Candice Wu 0:09

Hello and welcome. You’re listening to the Embody Podcast, a show about remembering and embodying your true nature, inner wisdom, Embodied Healing and self-love.

Candice Wu 0:16

My name is Candice Wu, and I’m a holistic healing facilitator, intuitive coach, and artist sharing my personal journey of vulnerability, offering meditations and guided healing support, and having co-creative conversations with healers and wellness practitioners from all over the world.

Candice Wu 0:27

This episode is brought to you by the Soul Body Women’s Retreat that will happen in October 2018. This retreat is a very special small group retreat for women who are inspired to deeply connect their soul and body so that they feel at ease and at home in themselves, and to transcend beyond soul into spirit and into a conscious and free way of being. This five-night retreat is full of Yoga meditations, ancestral healing through Family Constellations, Somatic healing, and each woman will get personal attention through whatever it is that they personally intend in their lives. For this and other retreats, you can visit CandiceWu.com/retreats. And now let’s jump into the podcast.

Candice Wu 1:29

So we have Monique Wheeler today, a licensed acupuncturist and Chinese herbalist and what I love about Monique is that she is completely down to earth and grounded in reality yet, also in touch with the magic and intuition, the intuitive power of herself that support someone in healing. Monique’s practice is Meridian 87 which is a Chicago acupuncture and Chinese medicine practice located in the neighborhood of Lakeview.

Candice Wu 1:49

Monique just loves being an acupuncturist. She works with a variety of patients wherever they are, and is particularly passionate about working with people who struggle with respiratory issues, chronic diseases, fertility and women’s health, as well as pain and orthopedic conditions. She doesn’t limit her practice to these issues, though, but she’s always learning more with and through her patients and she just loves her job and loves finding the fascination in the human body and condition. So let’s welcome Monique.

Candice Wu 2:41

Hello, Monique. It’s so good to have you today.

Monique Wheeler 2:44

Hi Candice. How are you?

Candice Wu 2:46

Oh, I’m so well. How are you doing?

Monique Wheeler 2:48

Pretty well. It’s evening time here so I’m kind of wound down-ish. But I don’t think it’s evening time for you.

Candice Wu 2:56

No, it’s not. So you’re in Chicago and I’m in Bali, and it’s morning here. And I’m just so happy to have you. And I understand this year is your 10 year practice anniversary.

Monique Wheeler 3:07

It is. I’m so excited!

Candice Wu 3:09

Congratulations!

Monique Wheeler 3:10

Thank you. It’s kind of a mind-blower because it went really fast.

Candice Wu 3:16

So how has your practice changed over time?

Monique Wheeler 3:19

Oh, that’s a good question. Well, when I got out of acupuncture school, I immediately, almost immediately got my license. I was super lucky that I was able to take my board exams during school and so I applied for my license right at the end of the schooling. And then once they have my graduate certificate, my diploma, they sent it to the state and I got my license in three weeks. That doesn’t happen for everybody, I was so lucky.

Monique Wheeler 3:46

And so I started in June of 2008 and I had a couple of people contact me right off the bat. And I did some home visits, and I worked at a chiropractic office. So I had this really piecemeal practice. And I knew I was interested in some things, especially things that I had experienced myself with, which were respiratory conditions and women’s health issues. So I knew I like to treat those. I had some experience in school treating those, but I didn’t know how important treating pain was going to be for my practice, which is, it is a big part of acupuncture. It just wasn’t, I liked it when I was in school, some aspects of it. But as I’ve practiced more and more, I am so much more comfortable with a wide variety of pain conditions, I should say.

Monique Wheeler 4:33

And when I first got out of school and started practicing, I had to work with a bunch of different locations to make ends meet. I couldn’t have one physical location where my patients came and I was there four, five days a week. And I’m lucky enough that I think it was about four years into my practice that I was able to just be in one spot, or permanently there and not have to have multiple jobs. Well, it wasn’t multiple jobs, I was doing the same thing, but it was essentially in different locations. So that’s one of the big changes and — we were just talking about now, I’ve started using some essential oils. I’ve learned a lot about a bunch of different supplements, too. And I’ve also learned a lot about Lyme disease and mold toxicity, which I was not taught in school and I know how to identify that often. I know when I can suspect it in someone. I know what some of the warning signs are. And so that’s really different from 10 years ago, or even five years ago, probably.

Candice Wu 5:35

And so the essential oils, that sounds fascinating, and you were mentioning to me earlier about each one touching in on an Oregon and a channel. And can you tell me more about it? And what’s been fascinating to you about it?

Monique Wheeler 5:49

Sure, for sure.

Monique Wheeler 5:50

I was introduced to this by a woman that I see for acupuncture. Her name is Shelby Baylor and we went to school together, and she’s here in Chicago. But she was connected through other friends and colleagues to a woman who practices in Madison, her name is Michelle Merrimore. And she’s been in practice like 20 years, I think. Why she had done it, I don’t really know the origin of why she started looking at essential oils. But she started using essential oils with her patients, and over 10, 15 years, determined through muscle testing, and I can explain that a little bit more too, what oils worked with what problem in the body in terms of Chinese medicine.

Monique Wheeler 6:34

So in Chinese medicine, we have 14 named channels, we have 12 that are connected to organ systems, and then one that goes down the front of the body, one that goes down the back of the body, but the 12 that are connected to the organ systems, what she did, and she did this for the front and the back midline channels as well. But what she did was she found how to test people’s bodies to see if they had, for example, the gallbladder channel starts on the face and runs to the foot. And so people can have a problem along the gallbladder channel. Like say, they could have one-sided headache. That’s a very common gallbladder channel problem. People can also have gallbladder organ problems, which would be like trouble digesting fats, or a gallbladder attack, where they have a lot of pain and digestive distress.

Monique Wheeler 7:23

Sometimes patients, when they come to me for acupuncture, they’re not in an acute crisis all the time. Sometimes they’re, you know, somewhere on the spectrum of having a problem, but maybe they’re not in the acute crisis. And the thing about these oils is she developed number one, which oils go with which organs and channels and then placing them on the body. What I do is I put the bottle of the oil on the person’s body, and when I press on an organ or channel referral area, it’s usually an organ referral area, and people will feel a change in pain just with the bottle of the oil on their body. I don’t know if that makes sense to you. It’s the trippiest thing, it’s really cool.

Candice Wu 8:05

That’s so cool. It pulls together so many things, and just for me, I do understand because I work with somebody that does that. Not with oils, but with other things like everything else. So I’m like, “yup, gotcha”. But for the audience. Yeah, if you have any way you want to explain that feel free. But that’s amazing.

Monique Wheeler 8:25

The field is muscle testing. Michelle does this with supplements too, chiropractors do this, naturopath, lots of different healing types of folks do it where you hold on to a substance and it makes a change in your body. And that change tells the practitioner if your body’s going to like it or need it, or if your body isn’t going to like it or need it right. And see, the thing about the way that the oils are working is the patient has to do nothing, they’re laying there, and I’m palpitating places on their body that correspond to different organ systems. And patients will say to me, like, this is magic, the bottle isn’t even open it’s just on my abdomen and that pain on my side is gone. So it’s kind of cool.

Monique Wheeler 9:06

And now some people are very complicated, and they have a bunch of stuff going on. So they might have not a complete change in the pain but a 50% diminishment. I mean, I’ll take it. And what I do then, is I put the oil on their body.

Monique Wheeler 9:19

Michelle knows way more about the oils. And the oils that I’m using are produced by the Young Living company, because of their manufacturing process produces really clean, high-quality oils. There are other companies out there, and I’ve tried other ones, I like these the best, but you put them on the body and they do help too, what Michelle says, is like cleanse hormone receptor sites. So the oils will do something to kind of reset the body. The points will do something to kind of address the condition, herbs, supplements, they all do different things but they can all work together to be more powerful. And I’m finding that when I get to do this with people, they have, I don’t want to say quicker results, but I think they get deeper faster. So it’s pretty cool. And sometimes I have really complicated people. Yeah, so that’s one of the things that I’m pretty fascinated with, lately. But Chinese medicine is just plain old, fascinating. So there’s no lack of stuff for me to learn.

Candice Wu 10:20

I know there’s so much, it’s such a complex system. And when you have a patient, what goes on in your mind in this sort of inner mapping of how you see what’s happening, and what is needed, and what the root causes are, if that’s where you’re thinking.

Monique Wheeler 10:37

Well, it usually takes time. Initially, when I see folks, and you probably have a parallel experience, I would imagine from a psychodynamic or therapeutic perspective, because people can come to me and give me a list of their symptoms. I will look at their tongue. I’ll feel their pulses. I might ask them to do some sort of movement if I’m trying to do orthopedic tests or palpate referral areas. But really, I might have an idea of what I think the root cause is. But for some people, the root cause is quite buried. So I really start with what do we have to work on today, to get you on the path to feeling better? Whatever that looks like. And I do use along with the oils, Michelle has some recommended point prescriptions based on the different oils and I will use some of them and some of them are really great. They’re based on a Korean 4 needle treatment.

Monique Wheeler 11:39

But sometimes I’m just sort of intuiting what I think that person needs or I’m doing a lot of palpations on different points to see how reactive they are. It’s really, I want to say it is often different for every person. But you have to start somewhere. And people are complicated, especially when it comes to the way Chinese medicine looks at people. Because we’re looking at every aspect of your health. Of course, the chief complaint is the chief complaint, and we need to address that. But I need to look at other factors, too, for the root cause.

Monique Wheeler 12:10

So I don’t know if I’m answering your question. But really, what I tried to do is say, let’s figure out what’s going to provide the most change the quickest and get that addressed and then more will be shown as your body changes. Because sometimes people don’t even tell me about things that are going on. And I’ll start them on an herbal formula and they will be like, you know, we’re working on indigestion or something, and they’ll say, Oh, my legs don’t twitch at night anymore. And I’m like, I didn’t even know your legs twitch anymore, you know. So it’s like, Okay, great, and how, and their indigestion is better too but that’s like, of course, once you’re digesting food better, other things are going to work. And that makes sense when you think about it. But you know, sometimes I am just waiting to see what that person comes back with the next time I see them. Like, what changed? How much did it change? What did you notice in between the treatments?

Monique Wheeler 13:07

Because it’s definitely a process. It’s, I mean, thinking like therapy, you know, it’s a process.

Candice Wu 13:12

It’s definitely a process in staying with what’s there in the moment, and then seeing what kind of feedback the body gives this sounds like what you’re saying, and this piece about, oh, my leg stop shaking or twitching, I experienced that myself, I didn’t even know about certain symptoms and whatever my healer or chiropractor and I were working on, it just like revealed itself or became somehow aware of it. And they’re like, why didn’t you tell me that before? And so that happens to me more so in the past when I wasn’t as aware, but I can see how that can happen.

Monique Wheeler 13:46

Well, and when we’re in our body, I think it’s hard to know what’s, when we’re in our body, which is all the time of course, but in my body, I know what I think is normal and then I come to somebody and I say, like this is happening, and unless I get some feedback from somebody else, or maybe my friends will tell me, you know, I’m thinking of women and menstruation, which, who knows if we want to talk about this, but you know, what’s normal for a woman? I’ve had women tell me, like, isn’t this normal? And I’m like, gosh, you’re in so much pain, that’s not normal.

Candice Wu 14:18

Yeah.

Monique Wheeler 14:19

Or, you know, it’s your period is so heavy, it doesn’t have to be like that. But they’ve been to their doctor, their doctor has been like, yeah, that’s fine. And I don’t want to, again, say all doctors are bad, but I think they’re pressed for time. And maybe, you know, patients aren’t always with them as much as I am. So they don’t get as much information. I mean, I’m asking like, tell me about the flow every day.

Monique Wheeler 14:41

So yeah, I think that it’s really a lot of folks live with things that they don’t actually have to because it sort of feels like, Oh, this is how my body is. And I know, yeah, doesn’t have to be that way.

Candice Wu 14:53

It’s like, we don’t even know that there’s something different until we do and then it becomes apparent.

Monique Wheeler 15:00

And that’s okay. Because life is about healing along whatever path, right, whether it’s emotional, or physical, or both, I think. So, if that person then gets relief from that, great, but undoubtedly, we all have stuff for the rest of our lives, too.

Candice Wu 15:17

Yes. Right.

Candice Wu 15:18

I’ve heard you talk a little bit about trauma with your interview with Sarah Buino and working with that, can you say more about your experience with it, or what you see, and if there are any common themes within TCM and trauma that you work with?

Monique Wheeler 15:35

Well, that is very interesting to ask.

Monique Wheeler 15:38

I guess what I can say is, I don’t specifically work with trauma where I say to somebody, we’re going to do a trauma treatment today, for example, but I do tend to have people show up in my practice who have had trauma and I don’t know maybe that’s every acupuncturist experience. I can’t really speak to the whole practice. But I think what I said on Sarah’s podcast was that I did have a person say to me a psychic say to me, you are going to have a lot of people who have been through hard stuff show up in your office, because you have as well and not to like, go into all of that. But I do think I am hopefully a compassionate person. That’s my number one goal, to say to someone: this is affecting you. And there are ways to get through it.

Monique Wheeler 16:38

Trauma is stored in the body, I think, and I think there’s a lot of research about that. And that is certainly a tenant of Chinese medicine, for sure, emotions can make people sick.

Monique Wheeler 16:50

So, you know, I guess for me, I guess I would think about like, fear and anger, and probably grief, but not so much as the immediate emotion associated with trauma. And fear is related to the kidneys in Chinese medicine, and anger is related to the liver. So again, everybody is different. But what I do see is people who have, you know, maybe trouble with alcohol and they need to quit drinking and they may have had experienced, like, physical emotional abuse in their life. I do encourage folks to get therapeutic help because I certainly don’t think this actually happens right now. But I don’t want to be the only person they’re talking to about this stuff. That’s not my training. I personally have done EMDR.

Monique Wheeler 17:39

I think you and I had a conversation about this like years ago and after talking to you I was like, I really want to do EMDR. I knew about it before then. But I hadn’t pursued it and then I had somebody else, again, my spiritual advisor psychic said, I think EMDR would be really helpful for you, for your childhood trauma and I did it and I just saw such huge results in myself.

Candice Wu 18:03

Good.

Monique Wheeler 18:04

Huge results.

Candice Wu 18:06

Well, plus combined with everything you practice with TCM. I imagine it was just such a nice, like, in tandem fit.

Monique Wheeler 18:16

Yes, I absolutely agree.

Monique Wheeler 18:19

We have a protocol that is called the NADA protocol and it is a protocol developed, was developed by, I’m not going to remember his name, maybe it was Michael Smith, Michael White, I think it was Michael Smith, was by a gentleman in New York who was working with, I think, Heroin Addicts. And he started doing these auricular points, those are points in the ear. And he developed this protocol of certain points to use, to help these men and women who are in this rehab facility, stop using drugs. And they were going through other types of treatment as well. But his work and research really developed that as a very effective adjunctive therapy to help people who are trying to quit something that they were addicted to.

Candice Wu 19:09

So great.

Monique Wheeler 19:11

It’s really cool and you can do it with somebody in a chair, they don’t have to disrobe and it works for trauma too. There are some acupuncturists who do, there’s an organization called Acupuncturist Without Borders, and they go like Doctors Without Borders. But they mostly go I think, in the United States. But after Katrina, they went and treated the first responders. And it was just all of these ear ports, all the people who were living that. And I mean, essentially, what it does is just calms your nervous system down, because being in that fight or flight mode over time is so terrible for your body. And, you know, I’m sure I think, you know, this, I don’t even know if this is true. But I think trauma is so deeply stored, right, it’s always kind of coming back for people, if they have something like PTSD, the memories, or the reactions, correct me if I’m wrong, I really don’t know how it works.

Candice Wu 20:03

If something is incomplete in their experience and what I’ve found is not just in their personal experience, but also in the family lineage. And so if things are incomplete, they’re going to want completion somewhere, and it will find its way down the line of the ancestry. So if in the nervous system, there’s a fight or flight response, like a need to protect, a need to run away or to scream that didn’t get had, then that experience will kind of get stuck and want that completion.

Candice Wu 20:37

And so the body’s just trying to do that. When we have the flashbacks and all those symptoms. It’s just trying, but it’s also in the space where it doesn’t feel safe. Because if you don’t complete that, the animal body is saying to you, “you’re still not safe, still not safe!”. So that makes so much sense to just calm the nervous system. I think about it all the time, just like calming the collective nervous system would just be so great on so many levels.

Monique Wheeler 21:06

Oh, my God. Yeah.

Monique Wheeler 21:08

I don’t know if I ever told you about this. But I did a, well, we talked about that I had been at a Family Constellation retreat, maybe you don’t remember it.

Candice Wu 21:19

I do.

Monique Wheeler 21:20

And there had been, there was a guy there and it was really great. That was — is that the only one that I’ve ever done? I’ve done the individual workshops, one on one with a gentleman here in Chicago. But I did that weekend workshop with a guy I want to say, from North Carolina, and again, I’m not going to remember his name. But he was telling us about people doing these Family Constellations for the earth and for like, the United States. And I was like, that is so awesome because we totally need that.

Candice Wu 21:52

We so need it.

Candice Wu 21:53

And I can’t help but think about your background as a city planner. And that you are saying, the Oregon channels, the meridians are the mapping for the body. And then we have this idea of doing Constellations to heal the earth and the country’s everything has energy.

Monique Wheeler 22:12

Yeah, for sure.

Candice Wu 22:15

And we see it in Constellations work, and we can bring it to life in a sort of personified way and so we get it like, oh, there’s something happening between the US and X country.

Monique Wheeler 22:27

Yup. Well, and that was one of the, when I did that Constellation workshop, it just blew my mind. Number one, I did not think I was going to be able, I’m so rational that I thought, there’s no way they’re going to put me in this field, I guess. I don’t know what you call it. But it was kind of like a field. And I’m going to be a person in this person’s story, not know, but have feelings that reflect that person in their story. And maybe I told you this, but I played someone dead in someone’s Constellation and I literally could not open my eyes. I kept saying, open your eyes, open, I didn’t say it the whole time I tried initially, but it was so, I just really loved it. Because it proved to me, you know, yes, you can actually do this, you’re not so stuck in your rational mind. So powerful. Anyway, you’ve done a lot of those.

Candice Wu 23:26

It’s so powerful. Do you see anything like that in your work? Whether that’s maybe your intuition sensing in or the experience that you can access that?

Monique Wheeler 23:37

I don’t know. I mean, I guess, you know, I’m not sure — I mean, I think I get your question now, initially, I was like, do I see Family Constellations on the table, and I don’t, but I do see, of course. I talked to people about their family histories or their medical histories and then they will tell me x, y, & z happened to me, you know, mom, she had trouble having a baby. I had trouble having a baby, or she was two weeks late with all of her deliveries. I was two weeks late for all my deliveries. I mean there are interesting things like that. Not always exactly the same. But yeah, I do try to access my intuition with patients too.

Monique Wheeler 24:19

I’m lucky to have another woman who’s a mentor to me, who’s a chiropractor and I’ve known her for a long time now, since I moved to Chicago, almost, she’s been a chiropractor for 20 years. Her name is Stephanie Mage, you know, she’s like, you’re going to get more intuitive with your patients where it’s not going to be. So this is the problem, then this is the proper prescription. She didn’t know those terms, you know, but that you’re going to decide. Okay, well, today, this person, I think this is what they are going to need and that’s what I try to do when I’m actually doing my treatment. Even though I’ll talk to a patient now, walk out of the room to wash my hands, kind of collect my thoughts about what are we doing today, and I’ll come up with the plan. I’m already making the plan when I’m in there talking to them. But I’ll come back in and I may change my mind based on what I start noticing or feeling when I’m with them. And we’re usually talking about other stuff, too, and then I’m palpating their body. So I do try to get in touch with that because I think it can be helpful. I mean, I’ve definitely had other, you know, intuitive flashes more so as I get older. I think when I was younger, I just really didn’t want to, not that I didn’t want to be intuitive but I was more cloudy and unclear myself.

Candice Wu 25:39

Yeah, that sharpens over time, or that refines.

Monique Wheeler 25:42

Well, and I’ve had to do a lot of work on myself. So the more work I do on myself, I think, the less gunk I have and so maybe I can be more useful to my patients. Because I’m hopefully a little more of a clear channel.

Candice Wu 25:59

That’s the clinical term, right? Gunk?

Monique Wheeler 26:01

No, it is not. But that’s how it feels like, gunk.

Candice Wu 26:08

Yeah.

Monique Wheeler 26:09

Emotional. I mean, I’ve had to do, I don’t want to say I’ve, I mean, I’ve had to do a lot of my own work and I’m really grateful for it. Because my life is amazing. I have a really, I really cannot complain about my life. There are things I wish were different. But I feel very fortunate. I get to do something that I love. I have really wonderful relationships with my friends and family. I like myself most of the time, and you know, that’s really awesome. All of those things.

Candice Wu 26:40

That is really awesome.

Monique Wheeler 26:41

Yeah.

Candice Wu 26:42

I’m so happy for you. And you’ve worked to get here. So that’s, it pays.

Monique Wheeler 26:47

Well, it does. But I will tell you, I’m very intolerant of discomfort and pain. So, emotional or physical. So I’m always looking, I am a seeker. I’m like, Oh, this might help me. I’m gonna try that. Well, you know, like, I’ve done.

Candice Wu 27:03

Yeah.

Monique Wheeler 27:04

Kinds of stuff, you know, because somebody says, this could help you. And the thing with the Family Constellation that I did that one time I was given more information. I have this kind of mystery side of my family that I don’t know a ton about. I was given more information and it was pretty dark. And also, then when I did another Family Constellation, trying to get more information, it was sort of like, No, they’re not really going to tell you anything else. And so, you know —

Candice Wu 27:32

Interesting.

Monique Wheeler 27:32

Yeah, so sometimes, like, Okay, stop worrying about the past. Just look at what you’re doing here. You’ve got enough information. I

Candice Wu 27:39

I had that experience in a Constellation for myself, where I kept wanting to turn around and look at certain people, and what was happening back there. And the facilitator, notice that pattern in me and she was like, face the future, just don’t turn around. And I was like, but my dad is, you know, and she’s like, no.

Monique Wheeler 27:59

Wow.

Candice Wu 28:00

It’s none of your business.

Monique Wheeler 28:02

That’s crazy.

Candice Wu 28:03

It’s none of your business. And yeah, and that was kind of upsetting but powerful.

Monique Wheeler 28:08

Yeah, but that’s a cool message, right? Face the future, because I think people do get stuck in the past. It’s easy.

Candice Wu 28:17

It is. We want something to happen or we’re just used to, we’re just used to looking that way. Because there’s a part of our unconscious world that’s working something out there.

Monique Wheeler 28:28

Yeah.

Candice Wu 28:29

And then we miss out on what’s in front of us, or what’s here now?

Monique Wheeler 28:34

Yeah, for sure.

Candice Wu 28:35

Well, I remember I saw you for the first time just years ago. And I think that that’s why I’ve wanted to stay in touch with you. I just appreciated you and your authenticity. Yes, you’re welcome. Especially your authenticity. And I know that you’re very professional, with your patients, and, you don’t share your world because this is a space for them. But here in this conversation, I’m just wondering how you’re experiencing yourself now? What challenges are you experiencing, if you want to talk about anything?

Monique Wheeler 29:13

Sure. Well, and I mentioned this on the last podcast that I did, and it’s something that I do feel pretty passionately about, but I do have chronic Lyme disease right now. I’m not suffering a lot because of it. But it’s always going to be with me, yay. And I feel like that is something that a lot of people have and don’t know they have. So that’s kind of awful. But I’ve gotten such great care. And I’ve learned a ton about what that condition is like. And it’s a very complicated situation. So everybody is different. But I’ve learned a lot.

Monique Wheeler 29:51

And then a couple of years ago, I was in an office that had a major water leak and it did not get addressed rapidly enough and they didn’t actually remedy correctly. So I got sick again, with, it’s kind of like a chronic inflammatory condition or mold toxicity, people will call this building: sick buildings or sick building syndrome.

Monique Wheeler 30:17

And so lately, what I’ve been working on is detoxing from being exposed to that mold. The strange thing is that people who have Lyme disease, when they are exposed to mold, they have very similar symptoms as to having like active Lyme disease, it is the best way for me to say it.

Monique Wheeler 30:37

Mostly, you know, I’m not an expert so I don’t want to purport myself to be one but mostly what it looks like is just a ton of rampant inflammation in your body and it’s awful. It’s not very fun. And part of it I’ve learned is because my genetics, my makeup doesn’t detoxify well, and so when I was going to my acupuncturist, they would be like, wow, you’re so stagnant, that’s the term like, if you have a lot of pain, a lot of gunk, like things aren’t moving, but I was underneath that stagnation. I was deficient, they would say like, wow, you’re stagnant, but you’re so deficient. And that’s what a person who has chronic Lyme disease looks like. That’s what a person who has mold toxicity looks like. I’m sure there are other conditions that look like that because the body can’t identify the toxins correctly to be able to get rid of them, and they’re called mycotoxins with Lyme disease. They’re called, Oh, my gosh, what they call mycotoxins? No, because mycotoxins are from mold, but they’re like all of these inflammatory chemicals that are made by the bacteria, or by the mold toxins, my body can’t recognize those things and get rid of them properly. So it’s just trying to do what it can to get rid of it. But it really doesn’t know what’s going on.

Monique Wheeler 31:59

And when I started seeing the doctor who helped me the most to identify the Lyme disease in me, I was having markers for autoimmune diseases — were starting to come up for me, because my body did not know how to get rid of and identify correctly, the problem, essentially. And so it’s really fascinating. And I will tell you part of the process, my doctor said to me, oh, have you experienced trauma? You have to deal with, you got to do some trauma therapy to heal.

Monique Wheeler 32:30

A lot of people have to do trauma therapy to heal from Lyme disease. I’m like, Okay, tell me what to do. I’ll go to — you know, that wasn’t my whole motivation. I was really grateful. I’m grateful she told me that. And I also knew I had stuff that a lot of the work I had already been doing had not taken care of this really old childhood trauma stuff. That’s what I’ve been thinking about and working on myself for the past four or five years. It’s been a long kind of road.

Monique Wheeler 33:01

So I do attract people who have Lyme disease, and don’t know it a lot of times, I think, but you know, and it’s unfortunate, because what happens and what happened for me as I was just going to like my general doctor, and she was like, well, you’re fine. Your blood sugar’s a little high, but you’re fine. I’m like, I know, I’m not fine. I don’t feel right. But nobody could figure it out or they didn’t know how to look. That’s the thing. So that’s a big thing. And the mold thing is just really no party at all, either. But I have gotten better with that and I’ve learned a lot about like, how to help detoxify, what you do, what supplements and all of that stuff. So Chinese medicine is really powerful. Acupuncture herbs are so helpful with those things, too.

Candice Wu 33:45

Is there an herb that just counteracts the mold inflammation? You know, the magic answer?

Monique Wheeler 33:51

Oh, my gosh, wouldn’t that be —

Candice Wu 33:53

Please?

Monique Wheeler 33:53

No. But the magic antidote, probably from old is activated charcoal. So, or there are drugs that do this. But what you have to do is you have to bind it up. You have to bind up the toxins and get them out of your system. And so there are drugs that do it. There’s a cholesterol drug that I took last year to do it, there anyway, there’s a variety. But you can use chlorella, you can use activated charcoal, there’s Bentonite Clay, they all have their specifics because different types of mold cause different types of toxins too. It is a complicated party. If there was one thing that would be so great. I would love that.

Candice Wu 34:32

Oh, well, I hope it continues to clear up.

Monique Wheeler 34:36

Yeah.

Candice Wu 34:38

Yeah. That’s a lot to work with.

Monique Wheeler 34:41

It is, but I do, you know, for the most part, lately, I’ve been feeling really good and I’m so grateful for that. I do have a team of professionals that helped me. Yeah, so, you know, there’s definitely hope for people in that situation too. It’s just a long process and it takes a lot of different appointments and research and being tenacious.

Candice Wu 35:06

And being so much attention to self, returning the attention sounds like — yeah.

Candice Wu 35:12

So, Monique, I want to switch gears and go to what I shared with you earlier, the lightning round. So I’ll just ask a few questions and just say whatever comes to you, and there’ll be just short and brief.

Monique Wheeler 35:26

Okay

Candice Wu 35:26

This is one I’m just so excited to ask you. If you were an Oregon channel, which one would you be?

Monique Wheeler 35:33

Oh, I think I would be the gallbladder.

Candice Wu 35:37

And why?

Monique Wheeler 35:38

Well, it goes all over the body. I mean, it just gets to be on both sides. So it’s not yin. It’s not yang. I mean, it is technically yang channel, but I don’t know it just zigzags. And I think it’s got a really interesting pathway.

Candice Wu 35:54

That’s so fascinating. Cool. Okay, if you didn’t have to sleep, what would you do with your extra time?

Monique Wheeler 36:00

Oh, my god so much. Definitely. I like to read. But I do also love to watch TV. I had been playing a lot of games on my phone. That sounds so unprofessional. I like to play the design game where you designed these different rooms. It’s really interesting.

Candice Wu 36:18

Oh, fun.

Monique Wheeler 36:19

Yeah, it is fun.

Candice Wu 36:20

Like an interior design?

Monique Wheeler 36:22

Yes, it is an interior design game. So smart. That thought this up, Design Homes, is what’s called. If I didn’t have to sleep, I would go on little trips during the night. If I go to, like, I would love to time — not time travel but space travel, like to the mountains and back or to the ocean and back. But, you know, another fun thing to do would be to go sailing. So —

Candice Wu 36:44

All of those sound great.

Monique Wheeler 36:46

Yes. That’s so awesome.

Candice Wu 36:47

What has required the most courage of you in your life so far?

Monique Wheeler 36:53

Probably being openly gay. So it wasn’t something I thought about talking on the podcasts about, but I’m happy to, you know, being open with my family. I have a very big family and my mom was one of 13 children and I’m the only openly gay person so that was pretty intense.

Candice Wu 37:14

Wow. Yeah, that sounds intense. Thanks for sharing.

Candice Wu 37:18

Okay, what was your first job ever?

Monique Wheeler 37:22

I’m not sure if it was working at this chicken restaurant in Baton Rouge called Mrs. Winners. It was like a fried chicken place. The chicken was delicious. Or, I also, in high school, worked in the lingerie department at a department store. I think I didn’t do much babysitting. So I don’t want to count that I can maybe set maybe once a year or so yeah.

Candice Wu 37:45

We always get some interesting responses to what’s your first job. Yeah, I mean, my first job was at, I guess it was babysitting, and I didn’t do it very much early on. But then my first more official job was at a driving school.

Monique Wheeler 37:59

Oh.

Candice Wu 38:00

And my best friend and I decided to try to get a job together so we could work the same hours and hang out and we managed to do it.

Monique Wheeler 38:09

That sounds so fun!

Candice Wu 38:10

It was very, it was so fun. It was a really disorganized driving school and he just — the owners had like a stack of permits that he never got to his students and we just created a job for ourselves. And it worked out.

Monique Wheeler 38:23

Wow. So you weren’t teaching driving? You were filling out the form. Okay.

Candice Wu 38:28

We were just like, typing up permits and returning phone calls that were never returned.

Monique Wheeler 38:32

Wow.

Candice Wu 38:33

If we weren’t. Yeah.

Monique Wheeler 38:36

That’s amazing.

Candice Wu 38:37

Yes. The last question is, what is the strangest dream you’ve ever had?

Monique Wheeler 38:43

The one dream that I’m thinking of, which is not really that strange. But I did dream once that my brother was shot. It was such a horrible dream. So I’m going to call that the strangest and indefinitely probably worst dream because I think I had it in my 20s and that was 20 years ago, and it still stays with me.

Candice Wu 39:02

That sounds painful. Like, I can’t even — I just feel something when you say that.

Monique Wheeler 39:06

Oh, it was very painful. And in the morning I woke up, I was very shocked. But my brother is alive and well. So I don’t think that it actually is relevant to anything except my brain doing weird stuff when I lived in New Orleans, and it was there that the dream was set to. Yeah.

Candice Wu 39:23

Oh, fascinating.

Monique Wheeler 39:24

What about you? I want to know your strangest dream.

Candice Wu 39:26

Strangest dream? Well, what just came to my mind at this moment that I laughed out loud was, this was maybe three years ago and I don’t know the context of it. But all I remember when I woke up was, there was a lady cake.

Monique Wheeler 39:42

Wow.

Candice Wu 39:43

Lady cake. And it was literally a giant, like life-sized cake in the form of a woman.

Monique Wheeler 39:52

Wow.

Candice Wu 39:53

And it was like the coolest thing. I didn’t eat it. It was just —

Monique Wheeler 39:56

Wow.

Candice Wu 39:57

Fascinated by the fact that there was a Lady Cake, and I shared it with my friend, and she was like, that is the coolest thing. I’m going to start calling you Lady Cake. Like, isn’t that a cool name? Lady Cake?

Monique Wheeler 40:08

That is a cool name.

Candice Wu 40:09

Yeah, so that’s stuck with me. I don’t know if it’s the strangest one because I have really strange dreams. And I also have very mundane ones. But I just love my dream world. So that’s just one piece.

Monique Wheeler 40:24

It’s been recommended to me more than once to keep a dream journal. And so I do dream a lot. I think it wouldn’t be a bad idea. But I have yet to do it. Maybe I’ll start now.

Candice Wu 40:34

Oh, yeah, keep me posted. It’s, I find that I am often on with my dream journal and I just do it on my phone. Because I can’t write in the dark and I don’t want to turn the lights on. And usually, if I don’t write it right when I wake up, and I usually wake up at some point in the night, then I forget. And so I’m just like, in the middle of the night, texting myself on this. Like one note, you know, note —

Monique Wheeler 41:00

That’s awesome, though. That’s a good plan.

Candice Wu 41:03

Well, fun. Thank you so much for being on the show. Is there anything else that you want to share today?

Monique Wheeler 41:09

I don’t think so. I think that was a great talk. It is so nice to talk to you. And it’s so fun to watch you travel the world and have all your adventures. I admire what you’re doing. And I’m glad, I am going to say regardless of the ups and downs, it looks like it’s going amazingly well. So —

Candice Wu 41:27

Thank you. It is and part of it was to give myself that space to have the ups and downs in our like natural and slower pace and Chicago is just so fast-paced, and so I just couldn’t stay there too much longer.

Monique Wheeler 41:42

No kidding. It’s fast. It’s true.

Candice Wu 41:44

Yeah.

Candice Wu 41:45

Yes. Thank you. It was so much fun to talk with you and I learned so much Monique. Thanks so much.

Monique Wheeler 41:51

Well thank you, Candice, for asking me, it’s been a joy.

Candice Wu 41:57

Thank you so much, Monique, for joining us on the show. I loved how you shared your personal stories, as well as all of the fascination that you have with the human body and essential oils and applied kinesiology. It’s just wonderful to have Monique today. She’s just so respectful, thorough and down to earth.

Candice Wu 42:18

If you ever go to her practice, she just does the works with the assessment which is really fun, tongue diagnosis, pulse diagnosis and just getting to know you. You can find her practice at www.meridian87.com and that’s linked in the show notes with this episode at CandiceWu.com/podcast.

Candice Wu 42:39

And if you liked this episode, if it speaks to you, or you like what I do here and would like to support my work, please go to CandiceWu.com/patreon to make a donation of any amount which will just support me and making more episodes, interviewing more people and bringing wholehearted meditations and practices to you continually on the Embody Podcast.

Candice Wu 43:01

Also, I invite you to subscribe to my weekly newsletter and become a member of the Embodied Community at CandiceWu.com/embody where you can get lots of free resources, healing meditations and information about future retreats, workshops, private sessions and other offerings that I have. Thank you so much for listening. See you next time on the Embody Podcast.

Candice Wu 0:00

Hello and welcome to the Embody Podcast. This is Candice Wu. And today I have the fabulous honor of interviewing a friend and colleague of mine, Brent Garcia.

Candice Wu 0:12

Brent is an elite body mechanic and he came to the traditional East Asian medicine and Bodywork tradition because he needed relief from an old Achilles tendon injury. And after receiving Acupuncture and massage treatments, he was able to function at a much higher level than he had for the previous 10 years. And that motivated him to study East traditional healing arts including Acupuncture, herbal medicine, Asian Bodywork, and Tai Chi, as well as Reiki.

Candice Wu 0:42

In this conversation, Brent and I talked about reintroducing presence into daily life, the dance of the healer and the inner healer, in a client or patient, Western medicine and traditional Eastern medicine working in tandem, as well as the experience of being a man admitting pain and asking for help, the courage to see your own shame and name it and how he has changed his entire life and transformed in his 40s.

Candice Wu 1:08

When I have gone to see Brent for treatments, as the Licensed Acupuncturist and Reiki practitioner, I’ve left feeling completely renewed and restored. Even just being in his energy is healing because he has such a firm yet gentle approach that just makes me feel like I’m completely supported with non-judgment, and I’m held in a healing space.

Candice Wu 1:32

Brent in 2015, graduated from the Pacific College of Oriental Medicine in Chicago, with a Masters of Science in Traditional Oriental Medicine. And he received his massage training from Pacific College as well.

Candice Wu 1:46

So now, as a licensed practitioner, he continues to study anything that will help him be better and more effective as a healer for his clients. And I witnessed that firsthand.

Candice Wu 1:55

So I’m thrilled to have Brent on the show today, we have such a lovely dynamic, when we talk, we motivate each other. We support each other in our practices and keep each other in check as far as supporting ourselves.

Candice Wu 2:08

You can find out more information about Brent at the end of this episode, as well as on the show notes at CandiceWu.com/podcast.

Candice Wu 2:16

And before we jump into the conversation with Brent, I want to mention today that this episode is brought to you by donations from my listeners. Thank you so much!

Candice Wu 2:27

I recently started a Patreon page as I’ve received many offerings of support so that people can continue to be part of this community, to give me feedback, and to receive some lovely gifts from me through the Patreon page.

Candice Wu 2:41

I’ve designed some personalized healing meditations for those who want to donate monthly. And even a one-time donation or as little as $1 a month would continue to nourish the Embody Podcast to continue to have a life and cover the costs of the production.

Candice Wu 2:59

If the Embody Podcast inspired you, helped or spoken to you in some way, it would mean the world to me if you would show your support through just a small donation. And you can find that on my page at CandiceWu.com/patreon. Thank you so much from the bottom of my heart!

Candice Wu 3:16

And without further ado, let’s jump into our conversation with Brent.

Candice Wu 3:21

I am really happy to be here with my friend and Acupuncturist, Brent Garcia. He also is a Traditional Asian medicine practitioner and Massage Therapist. And, the thing I love about him the most is that he can hold lightness and darkness, he can hold the hard stuff, the challenging stuff, the gritty, the nitty-gritty, and also play and be light, and have fun and connect the two. And he has often helped me do that in myself.

Candice Wu 3:56

This beautiful balance of masculine and feminine in his personality and in his practice. I am thrilled to have you here today, Brent.

Brent Garcia 4:05

I am thrilled to be here. Thanks so much, Candice.

Candice Wu 4:10

So, because I keep messing up exactly what you do. Would you share with everyone, from your perspective what you do?

Brent Garcia 4:19

That’s a great question. I practice Acupuncture. And I’m also a Myofascial Trigger Point Therapist, and I’m also a Licensed Massage Therapist. And I also integrate Thai Bodywork on the table into my work. And on occasion, I’m a Reiki Master practitioner. So, I’ll include that if a client wants that. So basically, what I do is help people without putting them in a box. In other words, like I’m a mechanic, they come to me and say, “Hey, Brent, here’s what I’m dealing with.” And I pull out the appropriate tool to help them.

Brent Garcia 5:06

So some of my treatments, have both Acupuncture and Bodywork. Some are just Bodywork, and some are only Acupuncture. So, I really try my best to help meet the person, wherever they are, with whatever modality is going to fit them best.

Candice Wu 5:26

You have such a beautiful concoction of modalities. And I love the way you put it that you’re a mechanic. It’s so accessible.

Brent Garcia 5:34

Yeah. Which, to be honest, is what I try to do. I try to not make what I do in the medicine that I practice, I try to not make it some crazy big idea. I try to make it accessible and real so that when people come to receive a treatment, they are met right where they are. And I get to be with them and help them without trying to talk down to them or be over them in any way. I really focus on that in myself and in my practice. So yeah, that’s a great choice of words there.

Candice Wu 6:11

Yeah. And earlier, you and I were just talking and chatting. And you mentioned that you were starting to reintroduce presence. And that feels like what you’re talking about here what you do with your clients.

Brent Garcia 6:22

Yeah, in a very real way. Sometimes, just being focused on someone, purely, solely focused on someone, and blocking out any other distractions, can be healing in and of itself. So from the moment I’m meeting a client, whether it’s a new client or a returning one, I try my best. I’m not perfect, but I try my best, when I meet them to be 100% focused on them. Because I believe that starts the process.

Candice Wu 6:22

I am so with you on that. For me, it’s a process of feeling that my presence is completely there. And it’s enough, at least for me, it may not be enough for them. But that I know, I’m enough in myself, that seems to work wonder, it’s like simple.

Brent Garcia 6:43

It’s simple. And in my opinion, that’s all we can do as practitioners and healers.

Candice Wu 6:50

It’s so humble too, what you’re saying.

Brent Garcia 6:55

Exactly. This entire medicine and my entire practice is an experience in humbling myself, you know, in a very real but and very authentic and powerful way. It’s humbling in a powerful way not like degrading, it’s, yeah, this is a humbling, very humbling line of work I chose.

Candice Wu 7:02

Yes, it is. And speaking of your choice, how did you get here as an Acupuncturist plus all the other modalities that you use? And also just how did you get here as you, as who you are today?

Brent Garcia 7:10

Okay great. Yeah, I’ll answer like how I got turned on to Acupuncture, was it’s how I quit smoking. I was a packet A cigarette smoker for a while. I can’t remember now exact years, but, I smoked a pack a day. And, I was at the point where it was starting to get annoying. I was starting to notice my clothing was smelling to where I noticed it. And if I notice it on myself then other people absolutely notice it.

Brent Garcia 7:23

The seeds were starting to be planted for me to be done with being a smoker. And I used to be a real estate broker. And in the middle of February, when there is about half a foot of snow on the ground, and I was in the teens, I was waiting for a showing. And it was so cold and windy outside that I had to keep switching the gloved hand and smoking with the non-gloved hand. So, I keep switching and I literally said out loud, “This is stupid!” Literally. I was on the corner of Lincoln and Kenmore in Lincoln Park in Chicago, and I threw the cigarette down and on the ground — which, yeah, I know it’s littering but whatever — and I looked across the street and there was a sign in the office that said, “Acupuncture for Smoking Cessation.”

Candice Wu 7:50

You’re kidding!

Brent Garcia 7:50

I can’t make this up. I really can’t. And so, I walked across the street and I walked in and said, “I want that.”

Brent Garcia 7:56

And I got set up. It took me seven treatments. And that was over 10 years ago.

Candice Wu 8:00

Wow!

Brent Garcia 8:00

So that’s what put Acupuncture on my radar. How did I actually decide to study the medicine was, I was in a course. And I’ve heard this before. You know, I’m 46 years old. So like, over, maybe over 20 years ago, I think I first heard this concept from Tony Robbins. But I don’t even know if he made this up. But it’s the old rocking chair test, right?

Brent Garcia 8:13

You’re eighty years old, you’re on your porch, you’re in your rocking chair, you’re enjoying the evening, and you’re looking back on your life.

Brent Garcia 8:18

Are you doing what you would be proud of when you’re eight years old? And in September of 2009 that I heard that, and the clear as a bell answer was, “No”. And I needed something else.

Brent Garcia 8:26

So I went to an open house at the Pacific College of Oriental Medicine here in Chicago. I went to an open house for a massage. I was like, “Oh, I’ll just become a Massage Therapist.

Candice Wu 8:31

Ah, yeah.

Brent Garcia 8:31

I can sell real estate and I can be a Massage Therapist and kind of integrate that. That would be a way to slowly transition out of being a real estate broker. And it was a two-hour open house. We showed up. Sar O’Bannon ran it. She is a phenomenal Shiatsu practitioner here in Chicago-Land, we practiced, we talked about the massage school. And then, one of the admissions fellows came in and said, “You know, I know you’re here for a massage, but this is also an Acupuncture school. So I’m going to give you five minutes of the Acupuncture part. And in that five minutes, I was like, ”That is what I want to do.”

Brent Garcia 8:49

And so I enrolled in January of 2010 and started studying.

Candice Wu 8:53

And you’ve practiced and studied the Japanese version. Is that right?

Brent Garcia 8:55

Yes, I started to integrate Japanese Acupuncture after graduation. I really like it.

Candice Wu 8:57

What makes it so interesting for you? Or what do you like about it?

Brent Garcia 8:59

For me, it’s a dance. It’s traditional TCM, Traditional Chinese Medicine as packaged. And as taught in many of the schools, is kind of a prescriptive thing, you come in with a headache, I try to figure out the pattern that caused you to have a headache. And then with that pattern, there’s a prescription that you do. Just insert the needles in those points, and go about your business.

Brent Garcia 9:12

Japanese Acupuncture does a lot more in my view with palpation and with a kind of real-time response from the patient. So, I will do some very, by the way, Japanese Acupuncture tends to be thinner needles and shallower insertion, I’m really generalizing here, but you get the idea.

Brent Garcia 9:22

And so I will try to, I will take the pulses on the forearms by the wrist, and decide which organ system needs to be boosted up or tonified. Do a couple of points while holding the needle and then recheck the pulses, and see if a change was made.

Brent Garcia 9:33

Also, I use a little bit of abdominal palpation with it. And oftentimes, on the table, I can get a change in the abdomen, just with one or two needles.

Brent Garcia 9:37

So, I get instant feedback on how the treatments going. And patients get instant feedback for themselves like, “Oh, wow, I do feel different. When you press that point in my abdomen, it was really painful, like an eight out of 10. Now it’s like a 4 out of 10.”

Candice Wu 9:53

Yeah.

Brent Garcia 9:53

So, I like that it’s a dance. It’s constantly re-checking in with the patient, and not using a prescription per se. It’s really just, “Where do I need to go now? What do I need to balance now?”

Candice Wu 9:57

I love that. And I find that your work is so gentle but powerful in that way that you’re describing. Because you’re doing that dance and because you’re listening and seeing and feeling with your patient.

Brent Garcia 10:01

That’s what I try to do.

Candice Wu 10:01

Yeah, where do you see the limits of your work in terms of — I don’t know if this is specifically for you or maybe for Acupuncture, in general. But I think that’s a question that people often ask is, “Where’s the threshold? What can Acupuncture support? And where is it that I go to my MD?”

Brent Garcia 14:33

Those are the many-layered answers like you’d mentioned, I try to hold the space for both the light and the dark, your words. And we could kind of change the words a little bit and say: I like to hold the space between a western and an eastern mind. I try to hold the space to see what can be done with Acupuncture.

Brent Garcia 14:50

And also, by the way, how’s your vitamin D intake or how is your magnesium intake or supplementing that way.

Brent Garcia 14:58

I’m all for imaging, like X-Rays, CAT scans, MRIs, because I think that the patients that I treat, need that. And I feel better about what I do when they have that.

Brent Garcia 15:11

So, I have told people point-blank, you need to go see your MD. If there’s something that’s not being affected or not being changed by the treatment, or if there’s a certain sign that or symptom that that comes into the office, and it’s like, we need you to go, see somebody about that.

Brent Garcia 15:30

Let me give you an example.

Brent Garcia 15:32

A woman that came in with kind of a blister on her middle finger knuckle on the back of her hand. And she was coming in for treatment to get, to be honest, I can’t remember what she came in. But it wasn’t for that. And she’s like, “You know, since I’m here, let me show you this.” And she showed it to me and a medical doctor who also practices Acupuncture. And both of us kind of were concerned. By the look of it, it didn’t look like it was just something that you would get. It almost looked like a spider bite.

Brent Garcia 16:08

And so both of us were like, “You don’t need treatment right now. You need to go to the emergency room and get that checked out.”

Candice Wu 16:13

Yeah.

Brent Garcia 16:13

She did. It was not anything particularly serious. But it could have been. And based on the conversation I had with the doctor after she had gone to the ER after the patient had gone to the emergency room. I was like, you know, that could have been, you know, a Fascial Necrosis, or some sort of literally, some sort of spider bite where venom continues to travel up the arm over a period of minutes. And it’s serious. So, did I answer your question?

Candice Wu 16:37

Yeah, I think so. I think you’re saying, which makes sense. It’s case by case.

Brent Garcia 16:42

Yes.

Candice Wu 16:42

And you have no problem about just saying, “Go to your MD” and also that it’s complimentary, and that maybe the best. Well, it’s quite nice when people are going to both. In that way, there’s this dance of everyone and what a person might need.

Brent Garcia 16:59

Absolutely. There, there are times when you need Western medicine, and there, in my opinion, are times when you need, for lack of a better term, Eastern medicine. And if you have a serious medical emergency, you need to see a Western doc. And if you aren’t sleeping well, you probably need to come to see a practitioner like myself, because we have better methods for sleep that are more gentle and more lasting, in my opinion, than just prescribing a drug for it. So it’s really finding what each modality does well. And then —

Candice Wu 17:35

Yeah.

Brent Garcia 17:35

Using that for the best safety of the patient.

Candice Wu 17:39

And that makes complete sense. I want to switch gears a little and you haven’t mentioned working with men, yet. And I know that that’s a big part of your soul. Can you talk more about that?

Brent Garcia 17:50

I think in general, our society is set up to not allow men to be vulnerable in pain, and not at their best. And it’s looked upon in our society as a weakness to admit that. You know, I’m speaking — by the way, Candice, I’m speaking 100% in general, but I think it lays the foundation for what I’m about, and what my beliefs are, and what my standard is. But our society isn’t set up to allow men to admit weakness. And I have suffered from that, personally. I think that’s why this touches my heart so much. I think this is why this goes so deep is because I have suffered from that myself.

Brent Garcia 18:29

I’ve tried to squash feelings and squash pain with drugs and alcohol. I’ve tried to isolate myself. I’ve, you know, I used to be, I used to eat a pint of ice cream a night for years. And the last thing I ever wanted to do was to ask for help and to admit to other people that I needed help, and that I wasn’t feeling good. And then I didn’t know how to get out of the rut I was in.

Brent Garcia 19:00

And where that really started to strike me was that I wouldn’t — So, when I finally got a little bit of willingness to ask for help, it would be from women. And there’s nothing wrong with that. But I want to be a resource for men to come to, to have safety, to have openness, to be able to be vulnerable in their whatever they’re dealing with. Because I think it’s a needed thing in our society. And I think that not only do men benefit that from that, but women benefit from having men be that way.

Candice Wu 19:34

Absolutely. Because of the balance of what men feel. They’re allowed to say, do, and experience. That doesn’t really benefit women at all, and, or other genders that I’m not naming but it’s for the benefit of everybody that, that openness and permission is there because it’s human.

Brent Garcia 19:52

Yes.

Candice Wu 19:53

So have you found a man to ask help from? If I’m getting you right? Okay. Yes.

Brent Garcia 19:58

Yeah.

Candice Wu 19:58

Who has been your mentor or someone that you’ve been able to receive that sort of support from?

Brent Garcia 20:06

Yeah, it’s a great question. And based on agreement, I have to keep their anonymity but I can tell you that I have a really good friend in New Mexico, a really good friend in Colorado, actually two, really good friends in Colorado. And also I am part of a men’s mastery call which we get on — there are six men across the nation that are — we get on a call twice a month, and share, hold each other accountable, keep the hold of the space for other people, for other men to share the yuck of what the yuckiness of what’s going on in their lives. So, I have been blessed in finding that, and it’s made an enormous difference in my life.

Candice Wu 20:54

And that’s huge.

Brent Garcia 20:56

Yeah.

Candice Wu 20:57

What do you feel is, or has been the challenge in being vulnerable or opening up or sharing what you’re feeling?

Brent Garcia 21:04

For me, it’s, I think it’s because of what I said in that, it is not socially accepted. And I have, like, I mentioned sometime earlier on this call, I am certainly not perfect, and nor do I claim to be. And so I still struggle with that unwillingness to show who I really am. Because I don’t want to be ridiculed. And I don’t want to be put down. And I don’t want to be shown as weak. So, it’s a very real struggle that’s there. The good news is I’m conscious of it. And I’m aware of it, and I am in conversations with other men about that. But yeah, it still is there for me.

Brent Garcia 21:45

The other thing I would add to this is on the flip side, the alternative is puffery or machismo, or, you know, striding, like physically, when physically walking is actually striding. And I don’t find that to be authentic either. So the unwillingness to be vulnerable, in my opinion, is inauthentic, as is the puffery. So like, all things, the middle way, the middle ground is where the action is, the middle ground is where the juices, and I do my best to get that message to men.

Candice Wu 22:17

And it sounds like part of the message is the middle ground of being in your emotions, being in your experience openly, and feeling strong because of it within it. Even if you’re in tears, even if you’re breaking down. I’m just getting that from you, from who you are. But it sounds like that’s also what you’re saying.

Brent Garcia 22:37

Yeah, in a very real way.

Candice Wu 22:39

So I’m curious with all the work that you do for the community and for your patience. I know that you do your own work, as you’ve said already, but I’m curious what really makes you feel alive for yourself. What restores you?

Brent Garcia 22:56

Two things come to mind as far as restoring me, which I guess in effect makes me feel alive.

Brent Garcia 23:01

I have really taken on being a good sleeper. It’s really, but it’s very profound. I’ve taken on being a good sleeper for the longest time I would, I was a night owl, you know, I drank a lot of alcohol, I did a lot of drugs, you know, it’s going back years now, like over 10 years now. But, I used to stay up till three, stay up till four, and then go to work night after night after night. And there was, of course, the effects of drugs and alcohol that made me less than optimal. But, my sleep quality was just in the toilet.

Brent Garcia 23:38

So ever since I started focusing more on my sleep, which is really as simple as getting into bed, trying it now again, there’s no, I’m not perfect, but like trying to get to bed by 11 o’clock at the latest and at least lying down and reading and then waking up in a natural hour to the best of my ability, that has helped restore me so that when I’m walking through life, when I’m at my practice, when I’m at the gym, when I’m talking with people, when I’m being part of the community, I’m alive.

Brent Garcia 24:13

The other thing has happened relatively recently is, I kind of really jumped into strength training about four years ago. And, you know, I was a soccer player in college. And, you know, as I said, I’m 46. So when I played soccer in college, it was the early to mid–90s. And back then, we were actually actively told not to strength train, because you would “become unflexible”, which, now, if you look at any professional soccer player, they absolutely strength train, every single one of them.

Brent Garcia 24:45

But, I looked down upon strength train, I just thought they’re a bunch of meatheads. And then, I started working in a gym. Treating people, you know, I would do massage at first and then when I became Acupuncturist, I would also treat them with Acupuncture. But I also started doing a little bit of personal training and started to teach some classes, some strength training classes, and I started training myself and I’m talking like, you know, barbell dumbbell training. And that is, I didn’t realize how many benefits I would get from strength training. Just physically, mentally, emotionally, spiritually, it was just amazing.

Brent Garcia 25:23

Let me tell you a quick story.

Candice Wu 25:24

Please.

Brent Garcia 25:25

This was going when I first started training, I was probably about four years ago. I was in a strength training class, and I was really, really, really angry and hurt before the class. To be honest, I can’t remember why. But I was just out of sorts. And I had the thought, I’ll just go to the gym and just be in my own little world in this class of like 10 other guys. I’ll just, you know, focus, this will be perfect, I’ll just stay in my anger. And I’ll just ignore everyone else.

Brent Garcia 25:56

And when I did that, I almost got run over by a Prowler and I almost dropped the weight on my head, because someone was walking by and I wasn’t paying attention.

Candice Wu 26:05

Oh, my goodness!

Brent Garcia 26:07

And I got really clear that: “Hey, Brent, when you strength train, you have to be present. You can’t be thinking about patients, you can’t be thinking about your dog or your cat or the crappy thing that happened on the way to the gym, or the thing you have to do when you leave the gym, you have to be present at the gym with every single rep. Otherwise, you could get really hurt.”

Brent Garcia 26:36

And it’s awesome. That’s awesome. That was something I didn’t expect strength training was going to provide. It’s amazing.

Candice Wu 26:43

That’s a really powerful story.

Brent Garcia 26:45

My Achilles tendon was very happy. At the last second, jumped out of the way because there was a little sled foot that was going right at my Achilles tendon.

Candice Wu 26:51

Oh, my goodness.

Brent Garcia 26:52

Yeah.

Candice Wu 26:54

The literally hard lessons.

Brent Garcia 26:58

So strength training restores me.

Candice Wu 27:00

So I’m curious, what has been most on your mind or your heart lately?

Brent Garcia 27:06

I am at the age where, when I double my age, that doubles to 92.

Brent Garcia 27:11

So lately, I’ve become very aware of the fact that at least according to our current actuarial tables, right? At least according to statistics, I am well over, not well over, but I am over halfway in my life, provided nothing happens, right?

Brent Garcia 27:30

If I die a natural, actuarial table life, I’m over halfway. And what I’ve been aware of is, I haven’t been really producing what I know I’m capable of, as far as material things, I guess you’d say.

Brent Garcia 27:45

You know, I had mentioned earlier that, you know, I still struggle with a friend and a mentor who called it toxic comparison. You know, not just comparing myself to someone, but every time I compare myself to someone I come up short, and it’s like a toxic ooze that just kind of takes over my thinking.

Candice Wu 28:02

Yeah, I know that one.

Brent Garcia 28:02

So I have become aware that as much as I’ve try to be present, as much as I try to be the best version of myself, as much as I try to exude everything that I am to the best of my ability, it oftentimes, in my brain, I still come up short, and have been for a long period of time. Especially when I get into that toxic comparison with my peers.

Candice Wu 28:28

Yeah, that can be the hardest, at times like to see who’s around you. And to make that comparison, when our journeys are completely different.

Brent Garcia 28:37

Completely. And I, you know, when I’m aware of that fact, I realized that I had free will. And I had a choice, but like, this is my path. I’m walking my path, and it looks this way because it’s mine. And your path looks your way because it’s yours. And, everyone else’s path looks their ways, because it’s theirs, you know?

Candice Wu 29:00

Absolutely. I mean, I get the same way. It’s like looking at what people have done, and what maybe they receive. I can start to feel like I should be doing that. Or, why aren’t I? And then, if I actually go back into myself, there’s a way that I tell myself, keep your head down in a good way, for me. Don’t do that looking out. Because it’s always taking me the wrong direction. And when I go back inward —

Brent Garcia 29:24

Yeah. So when you say: “Keep your head down”, you mean go back inward?

Candice Wu 29:28

I do. I mean, take my eyes off of what’s out there, around me and turn it inward, into my heart, into my soul and work with the feeling that comes up. It usually for me, it’s like, “I’m not enough, I don’t have enough or I am not enough,” then just checking in with what I need to do with that. What do I need for that? And then what do I need to do for me and in my soul? Like, what is my soul telling me? The next step is in my life or what to do? Because it’s probably not, “Go make that program just like that person did and go for it!” Because it’s just never that.

Brent Garcia 30:01

It’s not. I totally identify with everything you said, and I’ve experienced that. You know, just to kind of extend with that. For me, what helps is, sometimes, if, like, I have to use your words, like put my head down, I have to go inward, and I have to check out with what’s really going on. But what’s been so valuable in having that be the seed of something greater, in something authentic for me and most importantly, like growth, is I have to bring it to other people and check in with them and like, “Yo, this is what’s going on. This is where I’m at.”

Brent Garcia 30:39

And that is, going back to what I said earlier that, that is what I never did. When I was younger all the way to maybe even like my late 20s, early 30s is, I thought I had to do it all myself. I thought I had to do it all alone. I had to figure it out. And if I didn’t figure it out, that meant I wasn’t enough. So when I get caught in that, it’s so valuable to go in. And I think it’s a vital step to go inward and to feel that and to check that out and to get it. And, I then have to bring it to other people. Bring it to people who have the capacity and the willingness, most importantly, to listen and provide feedback and provide response and guide and whatever.

Brent Garcia 31:23

Have you found that?

Candice Wu 31:24

Absolutely. I think that I’ve been in my life, somebody that has had strong friendship connections. I’m so grateful for that across my life. And so I’m used to, you know, maybe it’s also a genderized thing, right? But, I am quite used to being able to reach out to my friends.

Candice Wu 31:44

What you’re speaking to, that was a challenge for me, was to reach out to my colleagues, is to be vulnerable enough to share with my colleagues that this is going on or that I’m insecure or anxious about whatever it is, versus my friends because it’s great. I know my friends are in my corner. And I can do that. And they were supportive, and we go deeper with each other. But to do it with my colleagues felt much scarier. It was like, I’m actually going to expose parts of me that I didn’t want to. I don’t want anyone to see. And yet I’m sure they can all see it. Especially because most of my colleagues are therapists. How was I going to hide that? Come on.

Brent Garcia 32:24

You’re the last to know. Everyone around is like, “Yeah.”

Candice Wu 32:28

Obviously.

Brent Garcia 32:30

I’m glad you finally admitted that to yourself. That’s really good for you.

Candice Wu 32:33

I know. So yeah, it’s so hard for us to be vulnerable. And I guess, I can’t speak for everybody, but it has been for me. And yeah, I completely resonate with that reaching out, being important, and being able to receive than what’s there and debunking the idea that something’s going to happen that’s scary. Because every time I did that, it was, I guess, it’s probably a 99% of the time, it was met up with compassion or support, and help. And I grew from it. So the bad and scary things didn’t happen.

Brent Garcia 33:13

Yes. And this is a perfect time to bring it up, in my opinion, because this goes back to an earlier question about like, how did I get here? Like, how did I become an Acupuncturist? Yes, but how did I also get here?

Brent Garcia 33:25

For seven years, I was part of a process group. We met weekly for two and a half hours, and there were anywhere, you know, there was some fluctuation. So there was it was anywhere from like, three other people to maybe four or five or six other people. And it was moderated by a really awesome mentor of mine in a very real way. And we got an opportunity to check-in, which is, you know, where it kind of equals group therapy, except all the other participants when we were done checking in, all the other participants got an opportunity to respond.

Brent Garcia 34:04

And I remember when I went to a therapist, this therapist and I went to her for like, three sessions. And each time, she had said, “I really think that you should join the group.”

Brent Garcia 34:13

And, when she first described the group I was terrified of they get to respond to the filth that I’m thinking about myself or the bad things that I’m thinking about, they get to respond.

Brent Garcia 34:28

And, I have to tell you, seven, you know, it was 10 years ago, 7 years in that group and then I’ve seen the therapist off and on for the last three year. That work has been so powerful, because from the moment you walk in for the very first time, you are being vulnerable, just by being there, and then to have others respond, and to have that space for me to bring whatever is going on in the moment. You know, that was the beauty of, is that, in the moment, there were things that would come up, anger or shame or fear, or well, it’s always shame, but like anger, fear, or joy, or whatever. And there was an opportunity to share that and to have a response from the other participants, and from the facilitator made a huge difference in my life.

Brent Garcia 35:20

I am unrecognizable from 10 years ago, because of many things. And that’s one big thing.

Candice Wu 35:26

That’s incredible. What kind of feedback did you get or response did you get that has stuck with you?

Brent Garcia 35:33

I’ll answer that. Before I answer that in that group. And that process work, there is a distinction between response and feedback and advice, feedback and advice are like, this is what you know, I heard what you’re saying you should do this, the response was often what I was experiencing.

Brent Garcia 35:47

So, if we were in the group together, you would check in about whatever you want to check in about. And then my response would be what my process was what’s going on for me, of course, it’s going to have some overlap, and it’s going to touch on what you said. But the value was the response of what I’m feeling in the moment. And what I’m experiencing at the moment.

Candice Wu 36:14

It’s such a shift of gears, right? To be able to say, I feel this when you say, when you’re talking about this, I’m feeling -. And, we’re so used to doing something different.

Brent Garcia 36:25

Yep.

Candice Wu 36:26

Skipping ahead or not talking about our own reaction.

Brent Garcia 36:29

Yup, exactly. Talking about the other person not talking about what’s going on with me, we’re not set up to do that.

Candice Wu 36:36

And that’s like the primary thing of relating.

Brent Garcia 36:39

I need to pause for a second to just really get the impact of what you just said, Yes. That is foundational to relating to people.

Candice Wu 36:47

And I’m saying that precisely, even for myself, because I always have to remind myself to go back to how am I feeling, when someone’s saying that and not focusing it completely on them, in a way that’s almost icky, I guess. I don’t have the words to describe it. But even with my clients, to know what I’m feeling, whether or not to express it but to stay with that and relate to what they’re saying instead of something else.

Brent Garcia 40:16

Exactly. And to wrap into the other question, like what kind of response stuck with me? I mean, you know, as you can imagine, weekly for seven years, I got a lot of response. And I had a lot of response. But I think one of the main things was the concept and the disease pattern around shame and how pervasive that is. And how untalked about it is in general society, although it is being talked about more, I would say in the last five or six years.

Brent Garcia 40:53

I’ve heard a lot of TED Talks and etc, of dealing with and addressing shame as one of the foundational, maybe even the foundational piece that we deal with as human beings, and the hiding of that shame.

Candice Wu 41:10

Shame over shame.

Brent Garcia 41:11

That’s another common thread, is I would so often say, you know, “I’m experiencing a massive shame hit right now. And, I’m feeling a lot of shame that I feel ashamed. The only phrase that comes to mind is double whammy, like a double whammy. Did you get hit twice? It’s like a one-two punch.

Candice Wu 41:33

Well, and to be able to break through that, to speak to it, sounds like it took a lot of courage. And at least I know, for me, it can take a lot.

Brent Garcia 41:43

It does. And my willingness to be courageous in that arena and others is my capacity to do that is way higher now. Because of this work, and you know, tons of other things that I’ve done, my searching path has led me down many different roads, it’s been really awesome.

Candice Wu 42:03

I’m so glad.

Candice Wu 42:04

I feel this whole world just opened up in me when you were talking about shame as a disease pattern. And I started thinking about in Somatic Experiencing how the physiology of shame is spoken about. And it’s the same physiology like the way the body is experienced what’s happening in the body as defeat, head down. I didn’t, I couldn’t do it.

Candice Wu 42:30

And most of the time, instinctually, the “I couldn’t do it” is about something, a time when they may have needed to protect themselves, or speak to something. And we may not know when that time was at this point, because it lives in us and accumulates.

Candice Wu 42:51

And in my work, it accumulates over the ancestry as well. So it can just be like, maybe quadruple whammy times 10. I don’t know. But what I got excited about Brent was the disease pattern of shame and in your specific modalities, how you see that in the body. And what you notice happens or what meridians are shutting down? That’s my words. I don’t know if you would use that. But what do you see there?

Brent Garcia 43:26

I think it’s more of an intuitive process in that when it’s happening on the table, I think that’s one of my gifts.

Brent Garcia 43:34

My gift is the ability to be with someone else’s shame and to not judge it. And it doesn’t live like, “Oh, that’s the — you know that is showing up in the kidney meridian.”

Brent Garcia 43:48

For me, it’s the whole person at that moment, is experiencing it. And through the grace that I received from whatever path I walked down to get to this moment, and the work that I have done around shame and the mentors and guides that I’ve had around that sort of work, that separates me.

Brent Garcia 44:15

I think it’s my ability to be with their shame, that allows them to feel comfortable and safe, and to do whatever healing process they need to do. And it doesn’t, you know, in my experience that doesn’t live as, I don’t particularly look at it like as a meridian problem or something in the channels that need to be shunned or tonified or dredged or moved, or whatever. It’s really just holding the space for them to be exactly who they are to. For them to be the light and the dark. And for me to be able to continue to do the work that allows them to heal themselves.

Candice Wu 45:02

So you and I do the exact same thing, but you just have needles.

Brent Garcia 45:07

Yup.

Candice Wu 45:07

Because I almost felt like when you said, “I don’t look at it like the kidney meridian.” I almost felt like thank goodness, thank you. Because I feel that when I work with you, when I’m receiving Acupuncture from you, and working with that with you, wow.

Brent Garcia 45:25

Yeah.

Candice Wu 45:25

So I want to change, shift gears again.

Brent Garcia 45:29

Sure.

Candice Wu 45:29

And go for a little lightning round, a little fun here. I’m just going to ask a couple of questions. And whatever comes to mind or heart, feel free to share what’s right for you.

Brent Garcia 45:41

Will do. And I do need to say that this whole thing has been fun. So this is just fun. Fun, it’s, yeah, got it. Okay, I’m ready.

Candice Wu 45:53

I’ve had so much fun already. And I’ve also felt very humbled by everything you’ve shared about yourself and the work you do and how you see life. So thank you.

Brent Garcia 46:05

You’re welcome. Thanks for creating the space. You’re welcome.

Candice Wu 46:10

Okay, here we go. What is the strangest dream you’ve ever had?

Brent Garcia 46:15

I was crawling out of a cave that had that moss all over. It was sunlight. So it was like, it wasn’t a pure cave. And there were spiders, these white spiders everywhere. And I had absolutely no fear. It was more just like a kind of spirit.

Candice Wu 46:38

Oh, wow. And just as an extension, if you could ask your dream or if you were to ask your dream, a question. What would you ask your dream now?

Brent Garcia 46:49

What am I missing that would allow me to accept who and where and what I am right now?

Candice Wu 46:57

That’s deep. Yeah.

Brent Garcia 47:00

I don’t know. I don’t know how to go any.

Candice Wu 47:05

You know, I love that stuff. That’s like where my whole body is like excited right now.

Brent Garcia 47:13

I just, for some reason, like Bill Murray just came to mind. I don’t even know like why that’s there, but that’s a little insight into my brain is Bill Murray.

Brent Garcia 47:24

Yeah.

Candice Wu 47:24

Yeah.

Candice Wu 47:27

Well, and I am curious what your dream would say?

Brent Garcia 47:29

Yeah. Me too.

Candice Wu 47:30

Maybe that’s not the question for now. But for you. Yeah.

Brent Garcia 47:33

Yeah. I’ll have to get back to that, I to know.

Candice Wu 47:35

Yeah, please.

Candice Wu 47:37

What do you bring with you everywhere you go.

Brent Garcia 47:40

My guide tube. It’s the silver guide tube that I use sometimes with, for my needles. It’s, you know, oftentimes there are plastic guide tubes that come with a pack of needles in Japanese. You use a kind of like a, either silver or some other non-reactive metal as your guide tube. And I tend to carry that with me everywhere.

Candice Wu 48:05

Yes, I’ve seen that. It’s really nice.

Candice Wu 48:08

Okay, so you’re a good sleeper now. Most days it sounds, but if you didn’t have to sleep, what would you do with the extra time?

Brent Garcia 48:16

I’d read.

Candice Wu 48:18

What would you read?

Brent Garcia 48:19

I’d read two things. Well, it’s really two sets of things, which is really just an extension of what I read now. Three things.

Brent Garcia 48:27

The first thing is any sort of my East Asian medicine books and any new books that I have on order. I love reading books, and the ones that are at mind right now are the War of Art and Turning Pro by Steven Pressfield.

Candice Wu 48:47

Oh, yes.

Brent Garcia 48:48

Yeah. And books like that. You know, I love picking up Eckhart Tolle. In fact, I picked up New Earth the last couple of days, including this morning and just the wisdom.

Candice Wu 49:02

There’s so much —

Brent Garcia 49:03

How to live. Yeah, it’s —

Candice Wu 49:04

Yeah.

Brent Garcia 49:06

Every time I pick it up, it’s — I cannot believe. Like, I have the passage underlined. And I still have no recollection of ever reading it because it’s so present and so, what’s the word where it’s helpful right now? It’s so timely to wherever I’m at.

Candice Wu 49:29

It’s like it speaks over and over again.

Brent Garcia 49:33

Correct, right.

Candice Wu 49:34

You know, that’s a really great description of that, I have that exact experience. I think with that book, but also with other books that where you read it, and it’s like, “Oh, that’s fresh and exactly relevant now. Did I read that before? I thought I did.”

Brent Garcia 49:50

I must have because that’s my handwriting. But, I don’t remember.

Candice Wu 49:56

Right.

Brent Garcia 49:57

And then the third type of books I love, like R.A Salvatore fantasy novels and my wife just bought for my birthday, bought me three Ed McBain, like pulp fiction novels. They’re like 87th precinct and hard-boiled detectives, like I love that stuff, too. So like, Pulp Fiction.

Candice Wu 50:21

Oh, yeah. That’s great. Okay, here’s possibly the last question. What is a controversial opinion you have?

Brent Garcia 50:32

That there actually are stupid questions. Like, I personally do not believe there are no stupid questions. I do believe there are stupid questions.

Candice Wu 50:46

Tell me more. Because I feel that actually now that you’re saying.

Brent Garcia 50:51

It stems from a couple of things. One, it stems from, for a brief period of time I taught High School Chemistry. And my wife, who used to teach High School English for 10 years, and I have had this conversation where there will, you know, once you’re getting to High School, these kids are savvy, and they asked questions, just to mess with the class. And they ask questions just to waste time, sometimes not all the time. But like, there will be that, you know, the stereotypical class clown who will ask questions, and like, that’s a stupid question.

Candice Wu 51:28

Oh, I know that very well. I know that so well. Yes.

Brent Garcia 51:33

You’re not actually forwarding or actually authentically, inquiring into something. You’re just trying to mess with me. Which is cool. I respect that. But it’s a stupid question.

Candice Wu 51:45

When a question is actually a manipulation, or when it’s meant to do something else?

Brent Garcia 51:50

Yes. And you know, every class I’ve ever been in, every seminar I’ve ever taken, it’s all in on any sort of CEU credits. Okay. There are no stupid questions. You know, and they always throw in if you have this question. Someone else probably does, too. So, ask your dumb question.

Candice Wu 52:09

Great. If you want to manipulate the class, and they kind of wreck it, somebody else wants to too.

Brent Garcia 52:17

Join in!

Candice Wu 52:18

Which is probably true, you know, the energy in the room?

Brent Garcia 52:22

Yeah. I don’t know if that’s like, really, like, controversial or anything but opinion, but like, yeah, it’s a standout. I don’t know.

Candice Wu 52:31

I think it — Yeah. Controversial or not, it’s something people say, and I actually agree with you. I don’t believe that that’s true. That there are no stupid questions.

Brent Garcia 52:43

Yeah. You know, and in the words of Bill Hicks, I’ll say, you know, I don’t always choose wisely, but I’m committed.

Candice Wu 52:52

Thank you.

Candice Wu 52:53

Well, Brent, this is really fun. The whole thing as we talked about, is there anything else that is coming to you now, any last thoughts? Anything you’d like to share with everyone listening?

Brent Garcia 53:04

You, the listener are perfect, just the way you are. And there are people like Candice and myself, that do our best to create spaces that allow you to be that way?

Candice Wu 53:24

Yes, thank you.

Brent Garcia 53:26

You’re welcome. Thank you,

Candice Wu 53:30

Brent, where can everyone find you? And by the way, your Healing Crisis video is really fun to watch on your website.

Brent Garcia 53:37

You know, my website is the best way I try to keep that as like the portal, you know, the hub. So it’s BrentGarcia.com. And I say, because, you know, that’s my name, Brent Garcia. So, therefore, that’s my website, BrentGarcia.com. So there it is. That’s the easiest way. You can email me at Brent@BrentGarcia.com.

Brent Garcia 54:06

There you go.

Candice Wu 54:06

So easy.

Brent Garcia 54:08

I try to keep it simple.

Candice Wu 54:09

It is what it is here. Oh, well, thank you so much. I learned so much. I felt so much. I’ve had a lot of fun with you, as always. And I would love to have you on the show again. I just have 50 million questions. And we’ve already got about an hour or over. So thank you, Brent.

Brent Garcia 54:29

You’re welcome, Candice, thank you for your space and thank you for your creation. This is amazing stuff and your work is amazing. See you down the road.

Candice Wu 54:43

I want to thank Brent so much for joining me on the show. I learned so much from him and continue to as we are both on our journeys.

Candice Wu 54:51

Brent combines traditional and modern systems of East Asian medicine with bodywork and Trigger Point therapy, providing custom treatments to eliminate pain and cultivate well being in his patients. His private practices in Chicago at two locations. And you can find all that information as well as book a treatment on his website at www.BrentGarcia.com.

Candice Wu 55:13

Before you leave, I’d like to invite you to listen to more interviews, meditations, and explorations on CandiceWu.com/podcast. And you can also subscribe to my weekly newsletter and become a member of the Embodied Community at CandiceWu.com/embody where you can get lots of free resources on Embodiment, self-love, healing, meditations as well as information about my retreats, workshops, private sessions, and other offerings. Thank you so much for listening and see you next time on the Embody Podcast.