Candice Wu 0:00

This episode is an inspiring conversation with Tammy Letherer. A writing coach, blogger, and author who has such a healing presence in the world. She shares her messages that you deserve to tell your own story, to not dismiss or diminish your experience and about her path of peace in her new book, The Buddha At My Table.

Candice Wu 0:22

Hello and welcome. You’re listening to the Embody Podcast, a show about remembering and embodying your true nature, inner wisdom, Embodied Healing, and self-love.

Candice Wu 0:35

My name is Candice Wu, and I’m a holistic healing facilitator, intuitive coach, and artist sharing my personal journey of vulnerability, offering meditations, and guided healing support and having co-creative conversations with healers and wellness practitioners from all over the world.

Candice Wu 0:56

This episode is sponsored by the Soul Body Women’s Retreat, which is a spiritual and healing journey for women who deeply desire to sink soul and body, to live effortlessly and at home in themselves, from the heart and in their creative brilliance, and to transform, reclaim, and call up all of who they truly are to live in their lives.

Candice Wu 1:15

It’s a sacred week of nourishing and healing through sisterhood, nature, Embodied Healing practices, Family and Spiritual Constellations, Yoga, and meditation. All while immersing in the depths and reaches of the earth and sky in Zion National Park, Utah. The retreat is held from October 10th through the 15th 2018, and all the information and early bird registration can be found at my website at CandiceWu.com/retreats. And if you’re listening to this podcast in the future and are interested in other retreats, feel free to go to that same site, CandiceWu.com/retreats.

Candice Wu 1:54

I’m really happy to have a friend and colleague on the show today, Tammy Letherer, she is an inspiration. She’s a writing coach, blogger, and author and she has such a healing presence in the world.

Candice Wu 2:06

Tammy lives in Chicago with her three children and enjoys Yoga, swing dancing, reading a good novel Earl Grey tea and spending time outdoors. I love reading her newsletters about creativity, spirituality, as well as writing tips and excited to have her on the show today.

Candice Wu 2:22

Here are a few sneak peeks of our episode today.

Candice Wu 2:24

Tammy talks about sharing your message that you deserve to tell and experience your own story, to not diminish or dismiss your own experience. How there’s a beauty and tragedy because it stops time and how we practically trip over inspiration. She explores how we can retell and rework painful experiences through writing and return to our childlike urges to let go of some of the rules. I love in this episode, where she talks about finding the Thai Buddhist monk sitting at her table unexpected and uninvited, and how that inspired her path to peace through her divorce and betrayal experience in her life. I hope you enjoy this episode. And let’s jump in.

Candice Wu 3:07

Hello, Tammy. I’m so glad you’re on the show with me today. How are you doing?

Tammy Letherer 3:11

I’m great. Thank you, Candice, great to talk to you.

Candice Wu 3:14

It’s really lovely to talk to you from across the world. I just want to share with all of our listeners that I’ve appreciated you in my life, you are a writing coach and a writer and so much more. And, I think it was two years ago, I took your writing like a five or six-week writing course, perhaps, or maybe four weeks. And it just drastically changed my confidence and my ability to just tune into the lessons or the ideas that were already in me, coming through me, and to put them on paper in some way, to have a little more support for myself. And I just appreciated that so much and would love for you to share with everyone listening from your perspective what it is you do and how you approach it.

Tammy Letherer 4:06

Yeah, well, I love that you just said the perfect sentence. Boy, you’re a good student!

Tammy Letherer 4:13

Yes. I like to really stress when it comes to writing, to use the gift of being present and like you just summarize so well, you know, tapping into what’s already wanting to come through you. I think that takes so much of the heavy lifting out of writing. And I think that’s where the joy of writing is. Because it’s you know, literally, you know, being inspired, being in spirit. I like to approach it that way. And just think of what is it in this moment that has already energy. It may be something that I’m already talking to a friend about. Or it’s something that I, you know, if a friend called, what would I be excited about. And to me when you look at it that way, even if it seems to not have anything to do with what you thought you wanted to write if you can tap into that, there will be so much energy there. And I find personally it always leads me someplace really cool. So that’s what I like to give as my little secret tip for writing, for making it fun and making it easier.

Candice Wu 5:21

I was soaking that up like a sponge, I really needed that at that time. And still do, almost, you know, every day I use that tip with me like in all the podcasts as well. Just thinking about tuning in to what’s already alive in me and what’s I’ve been saying or talking about. And, I was thinking about why I wanted to invite you today. And, usually, I invite people that are wellness practitioners is what I’d say right? And most of the people so far I’ve had on the show have been someone like an Acupuncturist or therapist or another kind of healer and you don’t necessarily call yourself that. But I absolutely feel and have experienced that the work you do with people is completely healing and everything you put out there is so healing. Do you consider yourself in that world? Or how do you see yourself with that?

Tammy Letherer 6:22

I do, and that’s part of what makes it so satisfying for me, because I’m such a lover of stories. I mean, I think that is just the human bond right, between all of us. That’s what connects everybody. We all have our own stories to tell. We all deserve to share our stories. And I get so much pleasure from connecting with other people on their stories.

Tammy Letherer 6:50

And one thing I noticed that has surprised me again and again, is when I start to talk to people, especially, of course, people who want to write or have a book in them, there’s always a sense of dismissing our own experience. And that happens so often and, I find it fascinating. And I’m not immune to that myself. I mean, I’ve certainly done that, where I might tell a story that I think is, you know, everybody’s heard it before, well, you know, why would anyone care about this happening to me?

Tammy Letherer 7:22

And then I’m shocked to see how it affects people. Or, maybe, I just sort of blow by something. And someone says, “Hey, wait a minute. Backup. Did that really happen to you?” You know, and so I find that’s true with so many people that we have these amazing experiences and they are really worthy and they’re full of messages. And yet, when we sit down to, you know, whether it’s to talk about it, to tell our stories or to write about it, which can feel sometimes harder, we tend to just diminish or dismiss or belittle our own experiences.

Tammy Letherer 7:59

So to me, that’s a really wonderful part of writing and storytelling in general, is just to honor everything that’s happening and know that there’s a reason for it and that it has value and to tap into again that sense of, “What is my story?” And really own it and feel proud of it. No matter what it is, even if it’s a difficult story.

Candice Wu 8:23

I love how you described all that because I know I did that to myself, is dismiss the things that are coming through me or the thoughts that I have or the story that I have to tell as if it’s like not such a big deal or not that important or not that worthy. And it feels almost like because I live in it. I can barely see outside of it. That it could mean something to someone and that it actually means a lot to me. And that’s something I’ve had to unlearn and it sounds like with your coaching and with yourself, you really embody your practice. And, in a way, it sounds like I don’t know if you’ve had to unlearn things. But it seems like you’re teaching others to unlearn some of the messages we’ve taken in about ourselves or about our story. Do you resonate with that?

Tammy Letherer 9:16

Well, I think that’s a great way to think about it on learning. Because that’s — what’s so powerful about the writing process is that you have the power to retail or reshift your experience. And to me, it’s very therapeutic to take a situation that might have been painful and to rework it in a way that makes sense, you know, to me or, you know, to a writer. It’s just — It’s very healing to be able to reframe, you know, and you got that power as a writer. You’re doing it in a creative way. You’re doing it, I think, as sort of a channel, you know, letting another experience come through, some other dimension perhaps. I mean, how do we know that another reality is not happening at the same time?

Tammy Letherer 10:03

I just think it’s fun to think about all of those different aspects of imagination and play with it a bit. And I think relearning is a great way to put it. You sort of recasting your story and why not? You know, why not have that fun playfulness around it? And why not be expansive and just reimagine however you want to be.

Candice Wu 10:24

That sounds so fun. And I think I have a feeling of what you mean, like even channeling other realms or dimensions, or other just — imagination coming through you. And that’s just not the way I learned writing when I grew up. How much of that comes into the story in clients you work with? Or in your work?

Tammy Letherer 10:49

Are you asking how much of this idea of other realms or channeling do I bring? Is that what your question was?

Candice Wu 10:55

Well, that’s a great question. I have that same question too, that question. I also have this question of it just seems like what you’re teaching is this creative way of writing. And I’ve never learned that in my life. In going into school and learning writing, this was sort of the opposite. Do you experience that when your clients come to you about that, this opposition to what we were taught before?

Tammy Letherer 11:20

Yeah, it would seem very different from what we have been taught, because I think we’ve been taught to be very left brain and you know, very logical, which has its place. And that makes sense. But I think the people that I work with, do tend to have this pole already, it’s naturally there, they’ve tapped into the inspiration. And so it’s not a huge leap. And not as much as you might think.

Tammy Letherer 11:49

I actually have talked to several people lately where the theme has been, they feel like they have too many ideas, they feel like they’re channeling five books at once.

Tammy Letherer 12:01

For example, I talked to a woman yesterday who was working on a fantasy book, and she feels like she sees the whole series, you know, and it’s making it difficult for her to start because she does have such a big vision. And that’s been a bit of a theme lately, where I’m talking to people who have wonderful vision, and they do feel like it is the amazing imaginative process. But you know, that’s not a balance too, because we need both sides of our brain, you know, we need to have the inspiration, the right brain thinking and open ourselves up to what’s coming through. But then there is a point where, you know, we go back and rewrite, and you need to sort of turn on the left brain and be the editor and have a little bit of discipline and think about things like structure and answer some questions, and maybe make some tough choices. So I think that’s more what we’ve learned.

Tammy Letherer 12:56

And yeah, I think probably, that can get, I don’t want to say necessarily beaten out of us, but you know what I mean, it can be discouraged as a kid, I think, as we’re growing up, especially when, you know, for those of us who are of older generations. I think we were not encouraged to be very imaginative. And I do see that a bit as well with my kids who are in, you know, middle school, high school, they learn a much more structured form of essay writing than I ever did. And, you know, they have to hit certain points that I honestly can’t follow most of it, it does feel like it’s much more academic, and I don’t see as much creative writing.

Tammy Letherer 13:41

So, you know, maybe we start out as when we’re very young, we’ve got this wonderful impulse to be so creative, and then you know, certainly, yeah, we learn different things in school. And I’d like to think, at least based on some of the adults that I’ve worked with, that we do return eventually, back to this urge, you know, this really childlike urge to let go of some of the rules and just find our own voices. Because that’s where the satisfaction is.

Candice Wu 14:12

I love that. I see you do that when you write like, I receive your weekly or I can’t, I don’t know how often you write and send out newsletters, but I read them. And I’m always just touched by how real and genuine you’re speaking about your personal life, about the detail to which you feel something, and it just brings this energy of acceptance to me in reading your story. So thank you for that.

Candice Wu 14:43

There’s this piece that I read about your new book coming up, The Buddha At My Table. The sentence that I read, says, “Ultimately, it’s when she realizes which she is you. Ultimately, it’s when she realizes that she is participating in her life, not at its mercy, that she discovers the path to freedom.”

Candice Wu 15:05

And that made me think of what you were saying about, perhaps, reworking something in your life, or finding a way through writing to see something or feel something different. Those are my words. But I would love for you to tell us a little more about The Buddha At My Table. And what you mean by this.

Tammy Letherer 15:26

Well, I’d love to! Thanks for asking.

Tammy Letherer 15:29

You know, it’s interesting, because The Buddha At My Table was not the original title. And we’re talking about this experience of channeling and when I first got the idea for this book, many years ago, as I was living this experience, I had a title what I believed was sort of handed to me, it was a title that just popped into my head one day, and I thought it was a little odd, but I thought, “Well, okay, I guess that’s the title of it.”

Tammy Letherer 15:58

And I had that attached to the project for many years, I sent out, you know, many queries to agents and to publishers using this old title. And then it was just sort of, at the 11th hour when I was talking to a friend about one of the chapters in the book and I could tell that she was a little underwhelmed with the current title, the, you know, the original title, and as I was talking about the chapter, I said, “You know, I do have a chapter that’s called The Buddha At My Table, and her face just lit up. And she said, ”That’s your title.”

Tammy Letherer 16:31

And the minute she said it was as if I had already known it. Yeah, that is a much better title.

Tammy Letherer 16:37

The title comes from a scene where it was an evening, a fair, you know, kind of in the beginning, sort of, toward the beginning of the book, but there was a scene where my husband and I were scheduled to go see a therapist. Now, this is, shortly after I get this news delivered, that there had been a lot of infidelity and had gone back many, many years, and I had no idea, it was very devastating. And so we were scheduled to go see a therapist, and the babysitter was coming, and I was in my bedroom, getting ready to go, and my son ran into the bedroom and said, “Mom, mom, there’s a man in an orange cake sitting at the table.” And at first, I thought he was joking, but I could quickly see that he wasn’t. And so I went out into the dining room, and there was a Buddhist monk in full robes, orange robes, sitting at my dining room table, and I was very confused if it’s real.

Tammy Letherer 17:38

And it turned out that it was a friend of my babysitter, she was from Thailand. And he was also from Thailand. He was visiting. So he came along with her, and he didn’t speak any English. He just sat at the table, he wanted a cup of tea, and he just nodded and smiled. He just was this, you know, wonderful presence, just so surreal.

Tammy Letherer 18:02

And I went from that scene to the therapy session where I sat through listening to some really shocking, hurtful things. And I felt this rage that I had never felt in my life. I just felt so consumed. I just, I didn’t know what to do with it. It was so frightening to me. And I left there, and I, you know, my hands were shaking so violently, I could not get my keys into my car. And I kept dropping them. And I just thought, I don’t know what to do with this anger. I’ve never felt something like this.

Tammy Letherer 18:39

And all I could think about was this Buddhist monk sitting at my table literally had come into my house, into my space, where I lived, uninvited, and just this beautiful presence. And it really became a metaphor for me, you know, throughout the whole process and in writing the book, and just sort of a touchstone to come back and keep asking myself, ’Why did that visitation appear to me? What was the meaning of that?”

Tammy Letherer 19:08

And it was a personification of peace, in my opinion. And so I just kept asking myself, how can I invite that in? How can I keep living this experience with this presence of peace, that was really a gift. I think, to me, it was a strong message. So, it becomes a theme throughout the book and really becomes my guiding principle. And, you know, the subtitle of the book is how I found peace and betrayal in divorce. And that’s the journey that I hope to show.

Candice Wu 19:40

Wow, I love that. I just feel the peace right now, even with you talking about it. I actually had no idea what that was about, The Buddha At My Table. And I just thought in my mind is, is she talking about her ex? Or, you know, this man that’s betrayed you? Is that what you’re talking about? And now, it’s just becoming clear here. What — I don’t know. It just feels like such a magical moment that gave you so much for this book and gave you so much for your life that seems to just keep inspiring.

Tammy Letherer 20:17

Yeah, I think, you know, for me, I just felt this astonishment because really, how many people walk out of their bedroom to find a monk sitting at their table, you know, I just don’t think probably happens very often.

Tammy Letherer 20:33

And so, you know, that sort of goes back to what we were talking about earlier about the process of writing is, thinking about what is right in front of me, because in my opinion, life is giving these gifts all the time, whether it’s something that you want to write about, or be inspired by, or it’s a reason to be creative, or whatever it is you’re seeking, or whatever answers you need. I think that they’re given to us.

Tammy Letherer 21:00

They are literally at our feet, and we trip over them, we don’t see them because we don’t always have our eyes ahead on the horizon. And so to me, that was a very, just, kind of an enlightening moment to think that this does not happen. This is very surreal. You know, there’s a reason for this, and how is this some — in service to the book? How is this in service to my healing process, to the anger that I’m feeling?

Tammy Letherer 21:31

You know, I felt at that moment that there was no way I would ever achieve the peace that man had and that I felt in his presence. I thought there’s just, there is absolutely no way. And so, I had to struggle with the idea that this was just kind of mocking me, this is something I will never achieve. And it was sort of a low point. You know, at that particular time, it was my low point, because what I was experiencing and the anger that I was having, but it was also just this really unusual, strong message that became so important.

Tammy Letherer 22:08

So yeah, I think it’s really cool to think about that, how we do get what we need when we need it. And if we just pay attention, if we just stay really present, and I talked about that in little places throughout the book, how, when I was so devastated at the beginning, and really in shock, could only think about how to get up in the morning, how to get my kids to school, and how to eat something. And that was about it.

Tammy Letherer 22:35

There were little things that felt like touchstones. You know, and I remember them so clearly. I remember going to a friend’s house in the first few days and she offered me a piece of toast and I had not eaten, she made me a cup of tea and a piece of toast.

Tammy Letherer 22:52

And it was such a life, I mean, I just remember the taste of it. I remember the feel of the cup and the warmth of the tea. And I laid down on her couch. And it was a bit of an odd situation because she actually had a realtor there, was looking at the house to give her an estimate. And I made a joke about “Don’t worry, the crazy lady on the couch does not come with the house.”

Tammy Letherer 23:20

They just went about their business and I dozed on the couch. And I just felt cozy and taken care of. And it was so profound to me. And there were different moments like that.

Tammy Letherer 23:31

There was another friend who gave me a bag of Honeycrisp apples, and I put them in my car, and I forgot about them. And I was, you know, waiting for my kids one day, and it was freezing cold out, and I hadn’t eaten and I turned, and I found those, and the taste, you know, that little sort of tangible things like that, that I think that when we’re in our ordinary lives, and things are going okay. And, you know, we’re just sort of distracted by the business of living, we don’t always get to have those moments.

Tammy Letherer 23:56

And not that I wish tragedy at anybody. But there is something, there’s a gift or there’s a beauty some, you know, somewhere in tragedy, because it really stops time. And when you’re reduced to just the basics, well, you can’t think on the next 10 minutes, you know, you do have an awareness that comes to you that, you know, you may not experience at other times.

Candice Wu 24:33

Right now, it just feels so palpable to me, like I’m almost in tears, feeling this message you’re sharing right now, like, what I’m receiving is that, when tragic things happen, or when times are really hard, really challenging, that there are just treasures there, you know, that’s not something new to me, in my mind, right. But the feeling that I’m getting from you just feels so, like you believe that, you experienced that, and you see that. And what you said about just, we trip over these things, trip over them, that’s just so lovely to remind me, to remind ourselves, that when things are really hard, there’s just something that can shine through it.

Candice Wu 25:25

It reminds me of what you said, I think, maybe in a recent blog posts that you can’t plan an inspired life and that the certainty that you crave when you want things to be just certain and study that could be actually shackling your soul, just holding that next to what you said about challenging things, stopping time, and bringing us right to this moment where we are completely present. And it seems to be one of your biggest messages in life, for everything, like, be here, be right here. And what’s here.

Tammy Letherer 26:05

For me, it was one of the biggest lessons. And strangely enough, I was aware of it right from the beginning. I mean, there was a moment of a shock, and I begin the book with the story, you know, with the, being called to the table by my former husband.

Tammy Letherer 26:22

And, you know, he delivered three pieces of information, he had a list in front of him, and he had 1–2–3 things to tell me. And, you know, he wanted to share that he had an affair many years earlier that we, before we had children, and that he had been using escorts in the last several years on his business trip. And then also that he had met someone for 12 hours in Las Vegas and wanted to sort of run away with her.

Tammy Letherer 26:51

And so at that point, when I heard these three things, there was a point that I sort of blanked out, and I fell to the floor. And just remember thinking, “This is it, my life is over.”

Tammy Letherer 27:05

And I couldn’t really compute what he was saying. And he ended up getting up and leaving. And I stayed on the floor for a while. But there was a point, I mean, and this is just I think, so true of any situation, there’s a point, you know, you have to get up, you have to get up and move on. And I think there was something in me even then, as I started to think about, you know, I have to get off the floor, I have to stand up, that’s the first thing I have to do is stand up.

Tammy Letherer 27:37

There’s just a part that sort of knows, that pulls you forward. And that knows that this is, I don’t know, I almost can’t describe it. It’s almost, I had a sense that there was an observer that began paying attention. And that part never stopped paying attention. It was like a new awareness just grew from me and thought this is happening, this cannot happen. So, because it is, there’s a reason, so pay attention.

Tammy Letherer 28:09

And I just, you know, I always had a bit of that awareness from that moment. And of course, as a writer, you know, I kept journals, and I journaled everything. I do think that if there’s anything that you can hold on to going through a difficult time, I hope, and this is my lesson and what I would love for people to take from the book, is that you can always interpret events in your favor. And I do really believe that. I think that even when it feels tough, and it feels like everything’s, you know, against you, it’s never the case. And we just don’t know, we don’t know what’s on the other side of it. But if you can hold that belief, that events, you know, the universe, God, spirit, whatever you want to call it, is always conspiring in your favor, is always saying, “Yes, yes, my beloved. I thought you’d never ask, you know, I’m here for you, I’m doing this for you.”

Tammy Letherer 29:03

Like, I just find such comfort in that belief. And I would not have thought that I could feel it that quickly after having a devastating event. But there’s just something, there’s a bigger part that steps in and just, you know, I don’t know, I have a hard time articulating it, but it’s just, I feel so passionate about it because it’s there. It really is, it’s just, it was something in me. I think it’s in everyone that just says, “No, be patient, this will work out in your favor, you’ll see. Eventually, you’ll see.”

Candice Wu 29:41

I think, for me, that’s a beautiful message. For me, personally, I think early on, I never had that voice. It was pretty much like pushing, like white-knuckling through life. And at some point, I started to realize that voice was there. So, maybe it is in all of us, and it’s about realizing, but it can be covered up by so much. Thank you for that.

Candice Wu 30:06

I want to shift gears a bit unless there’s anything else you want to share about your book. Want to shift gears to a couple of quick questions in our lightning round.

Tammy Letherer 30:15

Okay.

Candice Wu 30:17

So we’ll just go a little quicker and just whatever comes to the top of your mind about this. Here’s the first question. What do you wish you knew more about?

Tammy Letherer 30:27

Oh, cooking. I wish I could cook better. I wish I knew more of, this is gonna sound weird, but I’m a grammar geek. I wish I knew more of the rules of grammar and punctuation. I’m always afraid there’s one that I don’t know if that gives my geekiness away, right.

Candice Wu 30:48

Yeah, you do enjoy that. Oh, that’s great.

Tammy Letherer 30:50

Maybe that’s because my grammar is not that great too or that they’re just so many things I don’t know about grammar, but it feels like there’s always something for everyone like that. Nobody’s perfect about that.

Candice Wu 31:03

Yeah, in my experience, feeling into the depths of pain or tragedy of what’s really happening has been a way that I’ve built my capacity to feel joy. So where do you feel joy and what feeds you?

Tammy Letherer 31:22

Oh, that’s easy. And I know you’ll relate to this one, Candice. Dancing.

Candice Wu 31:27

Oh, yes. Yes, love it, love it, love it.

Tammy Letherer 31:32

Dancing has brought me more joy and reconnected me just to a sense of playfulness and getting out of my head. And oh my gosh, I could talk for another 45 minutes about dancing, partner dancing. You know, social dancing is what I’m talking about. And there is just something about learning to follow. It’s such a wonderful metaphor, letting yourself be led surrendering to the music, to the moment, to whatever energy your partner has. Oh, my gosh love it.

Candice Wu 32:03

Oh, I totally relate to that. I am just flashing back to a time we went dancing together. Oh, that was so fun!

Tammy Letherer 32:14

Yeah, and it’s so true. With partner dancing, I remember, and it still happens sometimes. But there are moments where I just project, like someone else asks me to dance and some fear flashes in me where I project what they’re thinking of me, or what they want from me, or that they want something from me other than just sharing the moment. And then I get on the dance floor and I think, and we’re dancing and it’s fun. Well, it’s not always fun. But, you know, whatever it is, it’s like, “Oh, this is what it is. It’s just this. That’s it.”

Tammy Letherer 32:52

I don’t think that that’s always the case but more times than not. That’s why I like to go to dance studios vs. clubs. But yeah, just brings you right to the moment and surrendering to what’s there. And what a great lesson to meeting someone where they are, right. You have to meet someone where they are. You basically just have to go with the flow. So I think that’s wonderful.

Candice Wu 33:16

Yeah, exactly. Okay. What is a controversial opinion that you have?

Tammy Letherer 33:22

Oh, gosh, well, I guess what would be topical, just without thinking too much about it. What would be topical at the moment is, I, personally right now, I’m feeling like, I wish there were no country borders. I wish there were no, them and us. And walls or rules about traveling where you want to travel and living where you want to live. That’s something that’s heavy on my heart right now. And I understand that I probably wouldn’t bring that position up to my family members in particular, or some of my friends who feel differently. But that, so I guess, in my world, that would be controversial. But that’s something that I’ve been thinking about recently.

Candice Wu 34:09

Yeah, that’s such an interesting idea. I can feel my desire in that too. And yet, it’s so complicated. It’s become so complicated, but a lovely idea. And, see, maybe two more questions here. What is the most heartwarming thing that you’ve ever seen or experienced?

Tammy Letherer 34:28

My daughter singing. My daughter has an amazing voice. She’s 13. And she started singing when she was very young. I remember she was probably three or four. And she was in the car seat in the back. And she would just sing at the top of her lungs. And at the time, she was singing the Carrie Underwood song, Jesus Take The Wheel, but she’s saying it, “Jesus take the Wii.”

Tammy Letherer 34:54

This was back when we played Wii, you know, they didn’t have their game boys. They played Wii. And so she’s saying it, “Jesus take the Wii” and it just cracked me up. And you know, we would listen to her sing that. And after a bit, I thought, you know, she has perfect pitch. Like, listen to this. And it just went from there. And, it just makes my heart explode with joy. I asked her to sing for me all the time. And she’s just a natural performer with a voice just beyond her years. So that definitely is near and dear to my heart.

Candice Wu 35:33

That sounds so special. Okay. My last question is about dreams. Night dreams. What’s the strangest dream you’ve ever had?

Tammy Letherer 35:43

Wow. Okay, without thinking or editing this. It goes way, way back when I was a kid, I would have a recurring dream that scared me terribly. And I don’t know what it meant. But I was sitting in a car. My mom got out of the car and walked around the front of it. And someone came by and scratched a match on the grill of the car and touched it to her hair and her hair turn purple. And I have no idea what that means.

Tammy Letherer 36:14

But I would have that dream very often. And she did have a photo in a photo album of her, at a senior dance in high school. This, of course, was in the 60s or probably late 50s. And she had her hair dyed pink. So that’s the only connection I can think. But the dream would always give me a real sense of uneasiness. And I was always afraid. And so I don’t, I don’t know anything. I can’t figure it out any more than that. I haven’t had it in years, but I used to have it quite often.

Candice Wu 36:51

Was that more in childhood that you had it or what period of time?

Tammy Letherer 36:56

Yeah, more probably, like six, seven years old.

Candice Wu 37:00

Oh, my goodness. Yeah. Because when you started telling the story, and you got to the part where she struck the match and put it to her hair. I thought, oh, her hair is gonna just go in flames. But it turned purple.

Tammy Letherer 37:14

Right. Yeah. It was very weird.

Candice Wu 37:17

It just feels like for me, my reaction is, what’s scary, actually, turns very unique and different, and purple to me.

Tammy Letherer 37:28

Yes and colorful.

Candice Wu 37:30

Yeah, colorful. And it goes just that off the top of my head like purple, I associate with the Chakras. I’m just blinking for a moment. I’m associating with a third eye and our ability to see beyond a concrete world and have spiritual insight. So yeah.

Tammy Letherer 37:50

I love that interpretation. That’s really cool. I’ll take it.

Candice Wu 37:54

It was just the thoughts that are coming. But thanks for sharing that, Tammy. We’re coming to the end. You have a really lovely audience gift for someone who’s interested today, would you share that?

Tammy Letherer 38:09

Yes, I would love to share one of my advanced reader copies of my book, the book is not going to be released until October 16th. So, it’s a couple of months away, but I do have, fresh off the press in my hand. I have a few copies that are being used by the publicist to be sent out for reviews and interviews and things like that.

Tammy Letherer 38:33

And so, I would love to be able to share that with a reader as a sort of a sneak peek, if anyone is interested in being an advanced reader, sort of a beta reader and maybe even giving feedback or, if so, maybe doing a review on Goodreads or Amazon. That will be wonderful as well. So, if someone would like to contact me via my website, through my newsletter signup form, I would be thrilled to send that copy.

Candice Wu 39:01

That’s so exciting. And where can people find you on your website? And —

Tammy Letherer 39:06

Yes, they can visit my website, which is my full name, tammyletherer.com and there is a contact tab on there that you can fill out your info and just say that you listen to the podcast and would love to have an advanced reader copy of the book. And I would love to hear from you.

Candice Wu 39:27

Perfect. And how can people get a copy of your book? Do they have to wait until it comes out? Or is there pre-order?

Tammy Letherer 39:33

It is available for pre-order on Amazon. So, even though it won’t be released until October, you can certainly pre-order and I actually would be so appreciative.

Tammy Letherer 39:44

I’ve been learning a lot about the publishing process. And one of the things I’ve recently learned is that pre-orders are very important for the Amazon algorithm and there’s all kinds of things involved that feel a bit overwhelming. But the bottom line is that, yes, pre-orders are important.

Tammy Letherer 40:03

And so, if you feel like you would enjoy reading it, I would love to, you know, just have you jump on Amazon and go ahead and order your copy.

Candice Wu 40:11

Perfect, that’s great. I’m going to do that. I can’t wait. Yeah. Is there anything else you want to share today Tammy with our audience?

Tammy Letherer 40:19

I just really am grateful Candice that we get a chance to talk I have missed you since you’ve been gone from Chicago. And this is just so much fun to think that you’re so far away. And yet we can connect like this. And, I really enjoy your sensibility, and just your spirit, your energy. So thank you so much for you know, for reaching out and connecting with me on this. I really appreciate it.

Candice Wu 40:43

Thank you so much. I learned so much and felt so much. And I appreciate you and also miss you. So thank you for joining me.

Candice Wu 40:55

I want to thank Tammy for being on the show today. I learned so much and I’m truly touched by her stories and what she finds from her own life experience. It’s always been an inspiration to me, the feeling of a sense of wholeness and grace that she has in being human and sharing her own experience.

Candice Wu 41:13

I encourage you to pre-order her book on Amazon if it inspires you and that one special person will receive her advanced copy if you reach out to her. Her website again is tammyletherer.com.

Candice Wu 41:22

And you can find all the information and links in the show notes at CandiceWu.com/podcast and I want to also mention that Tammy has free office hours once a week. I believe it’s Tuesdays at 10 am, Central time and you can check her website for the phone number to tune in.

Candice Wu 41:39

Before you go, I’d love to invite you to listen to more interviews, meditations, and explorations on CandiceWu.com/podcast and you can subscribe to my weekly newsletter and become a member of the Embody Community at CandiceWu.com/embody where you’ll get lots of free resources on healing, embodiment, and information about retreats, workshops, and other offerings.

Candice Wu 42:01

If you liked this episode, if anything spoke to you or you like to support what I do, please go to CandiceWu.com/patreon to make a donation of any amount. Everything I create is made wholeheartedly and with love and I so appreciate all those who feel inspired to be part of it. Thank you so much for listening and see you next time on The Embody Podcast.