Candice Wu 0:00
This episode is with special guest Aleta Cai who is a New York City based healer and dominatrix combining her experiences in a unique form of somatic and energetic healing. In this episode, we talked about permission for pleasure and sensuality, shifting the beliefs around sexuality, how she uses BDSM techniques to awaken the energy of the sacral area, self-love, Kundalini awakenings, showing up in the world versus hiding and shifting the belief sets of lineage and culture around sexuality. This episode may not be for all audiences, please use your own discretion. If you're uncertain whether these topics will trigger you, you can check in with the show notes which will give you a heads up about certain sensitive topics. You can find these show notes at CandiceWu.com/Aleta.

Candice Wu 0:52
Hello and welcome. You're listening to the Embody Podcast, a show about remembering and embodying your true nature, inner wisdom embodied healing and self-love.

Candice Wu 1:06
My name is Candice Wu and I'm a holistic healing facilitator, intuitive coach, and artist sharing my personal journey of vulnerability, offering meditations and guided healing support, and having co-Creative Conversations with healers and wellness practitioners from all over the world.

Candice Wu 1:27
Before we jump into the episode, today, I want to share with you a recent passion project of mine, which is sharing about Dream Work. I love Dream Work. It has given me so much connection with myself, my wisdom and all these energies that may be hidden and discarded or unrevealed to me. And when I tap into my dreams, even when they seem weird, mundane or even terrifying, sometimes, I glean an entire world of wisdom and my own power that I can bring into my life. And so this passion project is a series of dream classes on Skillshare. So, these are dream classes that are in video form and the first one's already out there. It's about how to remember and awaken your dream life. The basics about recording your dreams and how to best remember that when you wake up.

Candice Wu 2:29
And a second one is out there about creating the blueprint of the physiology that will allow your dream life to flourish. These include specific breathing techniques, yogic and body center practices, as well as meditations that you can use to ground yourself and develop the safety and playfulness for your dream life to thrive. So, all of these will help your nervous system feel supported in deep rest and relaxation and giving the capacity for you to remember your dreams better than before.

Candice Wu 3:03
You can find those classes as well as a Skillshare offer that can give you either a couple of free months or a couple of months for 99 cents at CandiceWu.com/dreamphysiology. Any money that I make from Skillshare from these classes will go straight towards the podcast and in creating more classes that you and others can enjoy and also learn from. I hope you enjoy the class and the classes that are coming up around Dream Work and please share if you feel inspired to with anyone that loves Dream Work or wants to get involved in their own dream life.

Candice Wu 3:44
I loved this conversation with Aleta. It was so much fun and we talked about so many different topics related, all related to each other, all related to loving ourselves, all related to the human condition and all the parts of ourselves that might show up and that we can utilize to know ourselves more deeply. Eleta Cai is a New York-based healer and dominatrix who combines her experiences in a very unique form of somatic and energetic healing. And she focuses on embodiment, empowerment and processing trauma. And through her methodology of integrating submission, her clients are able to surrender into their own vulnerabilities in a transformative way.

Candice Wu 4:28
Aleta holds a BA in Psychology as well as an MA in Film Studies both from NYU. And after a few years of working in fashion, she followed her curiosity and fear into a BDSM dungeon. And this ignited a path of healing and integration she never foresaw. And she not only learned the ropes there but learn the ropes for a new way of understanding the human condition. She had a Kundalini awakening that further catapulted her towards a colleague of healing and she began her pursuit of the healing arts first through Reiki, hypnosis, clairvoyance, and integrative life coaching. So, I hope you enjoyed this episode as much as I did, or even more. I love the way Aleta talks about the integration, the crossover of sexuality and power, as well as healing and how all of that can come together. So, let's jump in.

Candice Wu 5:26
Okay, it's fantastic to have you here, Aleta. I'm thrilled that you're on the show. Welcome.

Aleta Cai 5:32
Thank you, I'm really excited to be here.

Candice Wu 5:34
So, I've been following you on Instagram and a friend referred me to you. I just appreciate how vulnerable you share about your personal life, your insights, and the way that you bring together topics that make me think and inspire me, as well as bring together topics around spirituality, sensuality, sexuality, power, loving yourself, all mixed with biology, the unconscious energy in the body. So, you are a New York-based healer and dominatrix and you combine your experiences in a very unique form of somatic and energetic healing. Tell me about that. What brought you here now in your life?

Aleta Cai 6:22
It was just a series of, I suppose the universe, shutting doors and opening windows and kind of following that. And I've initially thought that I wanted to be a professor. Actually, before that I was in fashion, I thought this was it. And then that didn't work out because I really just didn't like the way that women's bodies were being objectified and treated and handled and what the overall message was after that, after the images are created, and then they proliferate in the collective unconscious and body shame women. So, I just said I can't do this anymore and decided, maybe, academia is the right path. And upon following that track, it just was like a giant door shoved in my face basically, like slammed in my face. And I knew that this was not the right track for me.

Aleta Cai 7:12
During this time, I was experimenting a little bit I was freelancing and fashion and in digital. And I just kind of always felt like I wanted to hide a part of myself like to be very secretive about certain things that I did in my life. And one of them was my exploration in a BDSM and dungeon. So, I was a professional dominatrix when I was 24, that's when I started. And I didn't take it very seriously at the beginning. And that was very classic domination, it was just not what I do now, which is a totally different approach. But that's where I really learned the ins and outs of what bondage was, how to flog someone, just a very basic skill sets.

Aleta Cai 7:53
And from that point on, I decided that I would just go independent. So that means that I just would separate myself from the dungeon and become an individual entity, and basically have a private practice. And there is something about just that traditional style of domination that I just didn't resonate with, it was a dead end for me. And that was the point of my life where I had a Kundalini awakening. And suddenly, it was like, it was not only just a dark night of the soul, but it was an ego death. And I let go of so many of my attachments and my narratives. And I realized I'm a healer, I'd always been it just started clicking that I was very empathic, was very intuitive, I was very sensitive my whole life. And these in combination then made me realize, oh, wow, like I actually have energy healing abilities.

Aleta Cai 8:44
And after the Kundalini awakening, my first few sessions, they were like nothing else. It was like suddenly some conduit or some blocks just melted in my body and I was feeling so charged up with all this source energy, Chi or key or whatever it is that was running through me to my clients. And even though it was still very classic BDSM what I was doing, my clients were just like, Whoa, like, Where are you from? What's this energy? They were, they're not very, like, none of them were energetically sensitive people at all. I mean, they're very classic. Like, you remember how a lawyer who was like, What is going on here? He's like, I can feel electricity just shooting down my entire body.

Candice Wu 9:25
Oh, wow!

Aleta Cai 9:26
Yeah.

Candice Wu 9:27
So, you were having these experiences with clients?

Aleta Cai 9:30
Absolutely

Candice Wu 9:31
With your clients? Yeah, wow!

Aleta Cai 9:32
Yeah… It was, like, I was in shock, is like what's going on, I was looking at my hands, it was like jolts of electricity, just washing through me and the other person and seeing the result. I mean, they just look like they transformed. Like it was like, I don't know what happened, but they, just baggage was lifted off of their shoulders, supercharged energy, and I would feel really high afterward. So, I knew from that point on, there is something going on that really a typical but that just became the foundation of what I then developed as a methodology encompassing all the different practices like Reiki, hypnosis, clairvoyance, and then tying that all together with what I knew with my BDSM.

Candice Wu 10:15
Wow. That's incredible.

Aleta Cai 10:17
Thank you.

Candice Wu 10:18
So when, when you were saying you were had the dark night of the soul, and then all this energy was charging through you? What was that experience like for you and what? What broke down inside of you?

Aleta Cai 10:31
I believe now looking back, that awakening or dark night of the soul was a two-year process. And a lot of that was also like, it felt really, really horrible. My mother was really sick. And around the two-year point, she really was on her path towards death. I didn't know what I was going to do, I was clinging on to this, maybe it'd be a professor, but that didn't seem like it was going the right way. And so, it created a sense of struggle and turmoil within where I just felt so incredibly lost.

Aleta Cai 11:07
And I remember going to Japan at that point is not having no sense of what it is that I wanted to do or who I wanted to be. When I came back. I just, I can't even explain the turmoil that I felt it was just like, I can't keep living like this, it got really dark. And so that made me start looking for answers in places that I just didn't even conceive of before, like within the energy medicine field or within, you know, different, different, I guess, Eastern approaches towards healing that were outside of the traditional last year and approach.

Aleta Cai 11:44
And what I ended up finding was a Reiki healer, who kind of just kind of initiated me into this. She really was the first person who dissolved a lot of my blocks and helped me realize what it was that I was coming across. That night when I went home. And I'm remember feeling like my reality had collapsed. I really felt like, with no exaggeration, that I wanted to jump out a window, they had so incredibly bleak and

Candice Wu 12:10
Oh yeah.

Aleta Cai 12:11
Yeah. And the next morning, what was surprising was I woke up and I suddenly felt like it was a new lease on life. It was like something opened, I felt like I was connected to some spirituality that I had never had before I was raised without religion, without spirituality. And I was giggling and laughing and I felt so light, lighter than I'd ever felt in my life. And I just felt like my heart was open. And I was connecting, and just so grateful to be alive. And so, that's really what it felt like it was a profound shift from dark to light.

Candice Wu 12:49
I can really relate to that. I think I've had maybe two phases of that. And it is, you know that saying where, I don't know, it's like something like, when things feel like they're breaking, they're probably breaking open. It just makes me think of that, of how, when the things that we thought we were who we thought we were just breaks and dismantles. It can feel incredibly horrifying and terrifying and then when that clears away, the clutter, as you've said it before, and some of your posts on Instagram, we find ourselves and then we find that lightness and joy, and that laughter. So, I'm just relating to what you said about your story. And it sounds like you're in this path of who you truly, and who you truly are and who you truly want to be.

Aleta Cai 13:54
Absolutely. And it's really, I mean, I feel like the dark night of the soul itself maybe as a second step in the whole spectrum of the whole process of everything about of maybe if it's encapsulated as enlightenment, or just the journey itself. I do feel like what comes after that is just still a series of difficulties and integrations and different ways of understanding, different theories, and philosophies. And it's never-ending.

Candice Wu 14:24
Yeah, that evolution.

Aleta Cai 14:26
Exactly.

Candice Wu 14:28
And during the process of that kind of awakening that's so powerful. What did you do? And what do you to, to support yourself through it?

Aleta Cai 14:38
Initially, I didn't really have any resources whatsoever I, after it happened, I lost the majority of my friends because it was such a radical way of thinking, that they just weren't used to it. I also really needed to self-isolate. I'm not sure if you've had the experience to where it's like suddenly, when this happens, you just want to kind of be by yourself and learn everything that you can about your new cells and your new approach to life. Yeah, so,

Candice Wu 15:08
Very much so.

Aleta Cai 15:09
Right, it's, I think it's a necessary part of the process. And because of that, I didn't really have a lot of support. And I also at that stage, I was very ungrounded, it was like my crown chakra opened, and it opened so wide, that I was just out of my body. So, a lot of it was that and just finding, following my curiosity, again, which is what led me into BDSM. Following my curiosity into learning about Reiki or learning about these different modalities of healing that helped me surround myself with different people who share the same interests. And then from shared conversations, just picking up bits and pieces of what I resonated with, and what I would incorporate into my own practice. And also, I read so much it was like this thirst for new knowledge. So, anything I could get myself hands on, I read everything, I could Google, I googled, I probably Google dark night of the soul, maybe like 100 times.

Aleta Cai 16:06
Just define different ways that people have like lifted. You know, like all my YouTube channels have subscribed to so many of those channeling, channels and I think it's just like going through it. And then also, I feel like the universe supports you in that they, the universe presents you with a series of opportunities to learn. So, whatever it is that you're facing now, whether it be a challenge, or an opportunity, or maybe those are the same things, it's really looking at and distilling what it is that you're learning and picking out those specific pieces that resonate with all the shared experiences to understand what web of development that you're in. And then from that point on, if you can match the next phase of your life cycle, or if you can kind of develop a little bit further after you've, I guess, passed that lesson, then you go on to the next stage. So, I do feel like even if you have no resources, no support, no access to any sort of knowledge. The universe is going to give you that opportunity to have that knowledge just through living.

Candice Wu 17:13
Absolutely. I love that reminder, it feels like just easing in and letting that happen. And listening to those pieces, those signals that are trying to come to you already.

Aleta Cai 17:25
Exactly. That's a really beautiful way to put it. It's just awareness.

Candice Wu 17:29
Yeah, awareness. So, tell me about how you incorporate BDSM now, because it sounds like the way that felt deadening to you, that dead end past two before has really taken a different shape. And you've harnessed those skills and that power in a different way now with your healing work. So, what does that look like?

Aleta Cai 17:58
So the differences would be in the dungeon, it would be a people coming in for maybe like an hour, two hours, some people did longer sessions, but mostly the intention was just to honestly get off. And that was built into the scene. So, even though there weren't any illegal activities, it still felt like it was catering specifically towards and not only just eroticism or sexuality or anything, but just for the aim of an orgasm, which that just didn't sit well with me because I wanted something that was more open-ended and more transformative. And it also felt like a no judgment whatsoever to that type of practice because I, of course, began that way.

Aleta Cai 18:41
I just feel like that creates some sense of dead end or it's just not, it's not really something that can be cathartic. And that's really what I was aiming for in my work. I wanted something that was ongoing that would unfold much like the journey that we all are on. So, when I went into more of a healing route, what I did was isolated all the BDSM components that I had learned in the dungeon. For instance, flogging, whipping, caning, just deciphering what it is these activities were able to do to elicit catharsis. And I really studied a lot with — I met with certain people that I really respected and saw their techniques. So, not only was it looking at building my techniques, but looking at also what other people do to elicit certain reactions like pain reactions, or how do you pace caning so that you can create a body high and what's too much.

Aleta Cai 19:39
So, these were really expansive ways of relating to something which in the dungeon we weren't taught, it was just like, just take this cane and meet this person. And you learn a little basic how to like you basically new, don't beat him here, don't do this there. But that was it. And what I realized was, it is so expansive like you, you can work with the root chakra when it comes to hitting certain spots on a person's but, and it really does work that area where a lot of stress, we hold it, a lot of us hold it in our sacred. So these were just like fine tuning and pulling in and creating more of a larger way of approaching it. That's more therapeutic and origin as opposed to just orgasm base.

Candice Wu 20:20
That's beautiful. It sounds like you really took those skills and refined them and opened up the ways that that can be a channel to opening up who someone is or what's held in the body.

Aleta Cai 20:35
Absolutely.

Candice Wu 20:36
So with that, tell me more about how you use dominance and submission and incorporate that to help your clients surrender into their own vulnerabilities and learn more about themselves?

Aleta Cai 20:52
That's a really great question. So, what I think is that there's one big piece here, which is some of the people who see me, who explore their submission are truly exploring it from a part of their core identities. I do feel like there are some people who are hard-wired to feel more satisfied as a submissive and because of that, because they are given a safe space, they have an opportunity to explore that.

Aleta Cai 21:16
Secondly, I do find that sometimes there are ways that we, I think most people have a certain curated way of behaving in society because of certain rules and certain industries, or certain places and spaces that we all fit in. And unfortunately, a lot of times, these restrict us from exploring the whole spectrum of how we can be, and sometimes impedes, especially these pieces of core identity. So, if we have a context where it's basically decontextualized from the entirety of social expectations, and then we bring it into a really safe space where people can just be themselves and do whatever they want, and incorporate their core identity is, then I feel like that itself is therapeutic, not only for the sub, but for the dom, too.

Aleta Cai 22:06
And then I would also say, in submission, if we're just looking at submission, in this context, in BDSM, it's allowing them to also fall into their sexuality. So, even though this isn't sexual in nature, there is a core part about this being the submission, I do feel like in BDSM and kink are all really tied into sexuality. I do feel like most people have a very primal nature that's already tied into kinks and to non-vanilla types of interactions. Even if they're just tiny, like someone may be like, be choked, or have their hair pulled.

Candice Wu 22:45
It's in our nature to have kinks and to have those be part of what excites us.

Aleta Cai 22:52
Right, right. And given that this is a place where that out in the open, I do feel like people can surrender more to that aspect. And I really look at when I'm looking at power, I'm looking at the power, the life force that's sitting in this sacral chakra, which oftentimes is shut down, especially for women. And also for men, too, that I see, I noticed that there's this pattern of closing off to emotions, as not every man is like this, of course, I'm grossly generalizing. But I do feel like there's a social pressure for masculinity to be closed down, and no emotions are appropriate except for anger. So, when I see men in my practice, I do feel like their life force is also blocked in the sacral chakra, maybe for different reasons or similar reasons.

Aleta Cai 23:37
So, when we're looking at submission, they're sinking into not only their core identities, they're also thinking into the freedom of expression. And also, they're sinking into this layer of sexuality that's inherent in the human condition, in just living day to day and being a person. And when we have all those things address at the same time, that's when I feel like someone can be truly vulnerable. So, it's not just about sharing or being very open, it's truly a state of being where they're receptive, they understand that they're understood and that there's nothing they need to be held to in that moment. And that allows a really deep level of healing because they're very porous, in all ways. And I do find, I also have a vanilla healing practice. And although it's, I don't incorporate BDSM into this practice, what I do find is that people usually have a little more of a difficulty and talking about their relationship to their sexuality to their sexual self. And it's not really focused on that at all. So, that's why I make it kind of a core part of the BDSM experience because then that component, which is so strong, and all of us, it's our will to procreate, to create, to feel and if we can incorporate that then it's more of a holistic approach.

Candice Wu 25:01
I love that, I love how you're describing what's what can be locked into the sacred area, and it was just thinking about second chakra and how its power in relationship. And what you're saying is exactly that like power in relationship to your emotions and what you're you can and you cannot emote, or be or feel through given, you know the constraints of what we've put on ourselves in society

Aleta Cai 25:32
Exactly.

Candice Wu 25:33
But you're unleashing that, and creating that freedom, where that power isn't over you anymore, you harness all of it, you can be all of it.

Aleta Cai 25:45
Exactly. That's really nicely said.

Candice Wu 25:48
This sounds really fun.

Aleta Cai 25:52
It's really fun. It's um, I was thinking that yesterday not to toot my own horn, but I was just thinking like, well, like I'm pretty lucky, just being able to do kind of like, make it my own and make it a place where I can feel like I can express not only my core identity as being a healer, but my, well my core identity as a healer and as a dominatrix.

Aleta Cai 26:14
I do feel like a lot of times, in my practice, I'm also being healed through my relationship, as you say that the sacral chakra is about connection is about relationship. And a lot of this healing, I really feel like is always about the interrelationship of what it is that you're matching and what it is that you are working through in your life. And when you can see it mirrored, it also helps you to release a lot of your own blocks. And it's fun I can where I can dress up as a dominatrix. And I can feel great. And we're latex and where are these like super heels that are six inches tall! What I can't do that in normal-day-life, and I can strut around, and with canes and whips, and I mean, I think it's so, it's like theater in a way but a theater for one.

Aleta Cai 27:03
Meanwhile, I do feel like I'm adding something I'm helping my subs live a healthier life, or at least be more aware of a more comprehensive health and energetic parts of their lives that are so important to living a balanced life. So, I really feel like it's a win-win for everyone. Especially me.

Candice Wu 27:26
That's beautiful. That's beautiful. I think that that's where you know, you've, you're living the life you want because it is for you, and it is forever. Like it's, I guess I want to say it's just not separate, as you're speaking to it's so much your expression and something you love and want to express in you. And then it is mutually, in whatever way it is for the other person or other people. It's mutually as powerful. And healing. So, I think that's just beautiful.

Aleta Cai 28:02
Thank you, you're right about that. It's, um, I do feel like healing is a selfless service. At the same time, I think that there's duality. So all of this selflessness to selfishness to why it is that we are unique individuals wide as we're coming to this earth with certain gifts. And only we have them in combinations that we do. And a lot of that is like not making it about you but also knowing what it is that you have to offer being present, which really is about standing your ground is you. And so, then people can then play off that energy and be able to utilize your energy. In the beginning, I was always really invisible in my work. I didn't think that I needed to be really, like I didn't want it to be about me at all. I disappeared. And I think that was problematic, because then where are you? You're a ghost, you're not really just like adding anything you the actual conversation.

Candice Wu 29:01
Right.

Aleta Cai 29:02
It needs to be a conversation.

Candice Wu 29:04
Absolutely. I mean, I have a very obvious and clear example for that in my life when I first started this podcast, which was about a year ago, I was so afraid of it, I was, I knew I needed to do it. I knew I needed to put my voice out there. But when I was doing interviews, I would just ask one quick question and then disappear. And I would just hope the other person would talk for the rest of the time,

Aleta Cai 29:30
Right!

Candice Wu 29:33
If you're listening to this, you know, or you Aleta, you ever go back to like the early conversations, I love the guests that I had on there. And that's part of why I wanted to give them the space to talk. But a big part of that, too, was me just hiding. Hoping they would take up the space. so I didn't have to and that definitely didn't feel good. And I knew it. I knew it was happening. But it took some time to show up.

Aleta Cai 29:59
Yeah, I definitely feel you on that.

Candice Wu 30:02
Yeah. And how did it go for you to start showing up for yourself and in yourself? What initiated that? or How did you do that?

Aleta Cai 30:14
So, I believe at the very beginning, because I was still coming off as the whole expansive crown chakra opening and I wasn't exactly grounded and I didn't understand the spiritual tenants of being embodied and why that was important. I would say I then in my earlier days, matched clients who also wanted to basically bypass. I feel like that was just misinformation, everything that I was reading was basically about transcendental states about leaving the body to obtain spirituality. And that was the good way to be above it, to be so above the truth that you don't even see it as truth anymore.

Aleta Cai 30:53
So, in my evolution, what ended up happening was working through a series of big blocks as in blocks to addressing what it was I was really feeling. And these came in episodes in my life, for instance, grieving after my mom passed, that was really tapping into the core of my relationship with my family, and all these things that moved out in my lower chakras. Then, a lot of the other work I would attribute to acting. I was luckily had the opportunity to take these acting courses, which I'm still in now. And that was all about being in the body being present. And also just knowing how to move the energy of emotions in your body where you hold them. That was an education.

Aleta Cai 31:43
Just seeing how other people also even related to their emotions helped me realize what collectively we hold and how we hold it, and how to help other people move it out. So, I would say that establish some of the groundwork, and also my acting teacher, notice she during our talkback, she said to me, you're absolutely invisible in your work. She's like you make it so about the other person's experience that you're not even in it. She's like, you can't hide, you have to be there because if you're in it, then you're allowing, your you're basically achieving the aim of taking care of the other person, because you're giving them something to do, as opposed to just like being there holding the space for the other person.

Aleta Cai 32:25
So, when I heard that, I realized, okay, it really is important. I was always resistant to seeming like it was about me or like being coming across like narcissistic, or anything in the work because I had healers in the past who I found that with, who made it all about them. But I do feel like it's a fine balance, because people are being drawn to you for a certain reason, because you hold the knowledge that maybe they need you to share, they need your experiences. And so, being invisible just is not serving anyone and the more present you are but still allowing and still holding the space, the more you're giving to the other person.

Candice Wu 33:04
Absolutely. I love how you're sharing that now. And it's, just great to see you show up. And I think the people that make me feel the safest are people like you that are sharing vulnerably or honestly. And not just using that but just like having that be open for itself it, for its own sake, but then also being able to tie that into something that's insightful and helpful because you're experiencing it. Not because it's like for other people, but it's for you. And it's valuable,

Aleta Cai 33:45
Right, and it's universal in the end. I do feel like a lot of this is about learning that going into the self and unraveling that and being able to share those pieces not because it's just because I want to talk about myself, but because it's a shared experience. I can help other people realize what they're going through, too, like I had a client, who said she never realized the extent to which she was sexually assaulted in her life until she heard her friends share their stories. And she said that happened to me. My friend is not okay with it. I'm not okay with it, either. And that's what elicited all these repressed emotions around the incidents. So, that's what I hope to do is just by broadcasting a little bit about what I've been through, maybe it's something that all women have been through, I mean, there's some commonality and no matter gender, any types of separation or even like identification. And so, just I think it's just the overall human experience.

Candice Wu 34:43
Mm-hmm. Absolutely. And it just also releases more shame, and more hiding from, for everyone because when we are open like that we can identify in each other, and we can see ourselves in the other person and connect in a different way. So, I think that's very powerful.

Aleta Cai 35:04
Yeah, it's true. Connecting is so important.

Candice Wu 35:08
Yeah, I think it's so wonderful where you are in your life. And I wonder what kinds of struggles you're having now, what challenges are, what things are you tussling with?

Aleta Cai 35:20
Currently, I would say, I come up against confusion a lot. Because of the fact that I feel like I'm occupying such a space where I can be very many different things, and it's up to me, it's not a template that's been created before. So, it's really up to me to pull in the pieces and make decisions. And that feels a little bit overwhelming. I know that there are a lot of studies out there that say choice can be quite stressful. And yeah,

Candice Wu 35:53
Freedom can be really scary.

Aleta Cai 35:55
Yes. And yeah, constantly sorting through what your choices are, and weighing the options and trying to project into the future is just very draining and hard. But it's where our rational minds like to be. So, I come up against that a lot. I would say because I could build my healing practice, or practices in a different direction, move more towards that, or I could move more towards BDSM. And it's a constant kind of push-pull between where I want to go and where I want to invest my energy. And then on another level, I think that we all just come across life, I struggle with my family, I struggle with, you know, living in New York, it's not easy. And I struggle with knowing just in situations how to be sometimes or what it is that I want out of a relationship, or do I want a relationship at all in any sort of like, platonic romantic ways. I really just think that it's simple, uncomplicated, and I think I think we're all going to a struggle at all different times. But I guess it's what you make of it.

Candice Wu 37:06
Absolutely. I think so. And especially when we're at different parts of our lives, it's like things unlock at different points in our lives. And then different parts of us are revealed, and different struggles come with that, or different parts of us are trying to come to the surface to be known and that brings its whole, anything that's blocking it or anything that gets in the way. So, I can definitely relate to that.

Aleta Cai 37:33
Yeah.

Candice Wu 37:34
And the confusion. Yeah, I mean, when you come to, at least it sounds like from where, from what I'm hearing from you, it sounds like you've attained a level of freedom in yourself. And when you do that, all those choices can be opened up. And so, I can imagine it's not easy to know, where you want to go next, or what's exactly, right?

Aleta Cai 37:57
Yes, exactly. I'm constantly checking the motor underlying that decision making, if it's coming from fear, if it's coming from overthinking with the rational mind, or if it's a purely intuitive choice, which I feel like intuition, like these irrational choices sometimes can be disguised as just impulsive behaviors that may not serve you. So, it's just constantly going between all those like, is this the right choice is this because I think that you'd mentioned earlier the idea of the unlived life. And with that I really just felt like sometimes when I'm making choices for breaking out of resistance and living this undetermined, and also very freeing, beautiful life can sometimes be making an irresponsible decision, are you at least I think that sometimes when I'm making a decision, maybe it's coming from being irresponsible, or maybe it's escapism from my present reality. So, I think it's about being very, very clear about how you're making these choices. And using both the rational and the intuitive to make that decision.

Candice Wu 39:11
Hmm, absolutely. Especially that part about that some choices we think are intuitive, or maybe as you said, irrational can be disguised from the impulse that it actually is, that really touches me somewhere.

Candice Wu 39:29
So what delights you in your life right now Aleta?

Aleta Cai 39:34
What delights me, I would say most recently, I had a bit of a heartbreaking moment. And that just kind of opened me up. Like it just opened my heart to just connecting with people and in so many different situations. And this happened when I was in LA. I saw my father after a year and a half. And it was just not how I want it to be. I think that I romanticize change and other people because I change a lot. I'm constantly trying to grow. So, I think well, maybe other people in my life have changed, too. But sometimes that's not the case.

Aleta Cai 40:14
And when that happened, it was like every opportunity I had, I would talk to someone and engage and have a conversation, understand what their point of view is, what their background is. And it could be the most superficial conversation, you just talk about what food you ate that day. But yet, I feel like there's still, it's not even about what you're saying. It's that you're being present. And you are understanding from this person's point of view that you will never see again.

Aleta Cai 40:41
That's really what I've been finding really fulfilling, especially New York City, I feel like the city can impale you with the energy or at least like be so overwhelming that it closes you off to these insignificant or seemingly insignificant ways of connecting with other people. And I do feel like the more that we can just be in it and have these open conversations to the point where we're not being overwhelmed or drained by them. It can really bring a lot of spark into our lives. And the more I do that, the happier I am, because I'm truly embracing all these moments that I have

Candice Wu 41:17
I love that, like the little moments and bringing them more attention and love.

Aleta Cai 41:23
Yeah, I mean, I'm grateful to be able to have any of these conversations. I'm grateful to have a perspective or to have experiences or to even have a favorite food from today or you know, these like little thing.

Candice Wu 41:37
I know the little things just seem even to me more increasingly important.

Aleta Cai 41:42
Yes, definitely, I mean, the larger things are all just an accumulation of these smaller things anyway, right.

Candice Wu 41:49
Right. Well, I have two more topics that I'm interested in talking about. And I just want to know if fill in, if you in want to talk about these. One is about sensuality and pleasure and permission, and the other is about self-love, and self-hatred.

Aleta Cai 42:10
Definitely. I mean, these are themes that are very prominent right now and my exploration, I would say that was sensuality and sexuality, and how it relates to my personal evolution. When I started domming, I don't think I had a very healthy relationship with my sexuality at all because I feel like this culture and maybe even the age group that I'm in, promotes this almost like free, seeming way of relating to each other and hookup culture. But meanwhile, it's actually very vacuous at its core. And it's about not really connecting.

Aleta Cai 42:44
And I think I had to work through a lot of shame relating to my sexuality through domming because at first, I felt because it was so sexual, I felt really ashamed of what I was doing. Because in my family and in my culture, and my upbringing, that was not okay. So, that took a lot of like confronting what it was that I was holding on to unconsciously in relationship to my sexuality. And I did hold on to consciously binaries of what women could be and how they could relate to their sexuality and a very traditional Chinese culture, within the very oppressive and I didn't even come to realize how separated I was from my sexuality and how scared I was.

Aleta Cai 43:30
And after my spiritual awakening, what I also did find was in a lot of these, I guess, transcendental, be maybe it's not even under this umbrella, but a lot of the bypassing material or education, when it comes to spirituality is about bypassing out of sexuality. It's like sexuality is wrong, we're not going to talk about it in this circle. And how do we like eliminate that, we don't want to have these basic human needs. So, that, too, was very separating from my sensuality and my sexuality.

Aleta Cai 44:04
So, later, this happened within the last two years, I found Tantra. I found ways of connecting to my own sexuality in a different way, and releasing a lot of the stagnant energy in my sacral didn't realize how much pain and anger is held there. And that I think, was my first kind of sexual education in a very spiritual way, and all-encompassing way. From that point on, after releasing a lot of those blocks, I just felt much more sensual and I almost feel like I gave myself permission to be that. I used to think that if you gave yourself permission to be sexual, it just meant that you were having sex with everyone. It's not that at all, I feel like that was a misconception I have, and maybe I had, and maybe some people share that too.

Aleta Cai 44:54
It's about as I found, power over power that comes from your sexuality is being very contained and very grounded and very accepting of the fact that you are a sexual being as a human being, and that it's okay to have urges, and it's okay to have sex with the right partners. And to know what your boundaries are, what your limits are, and how much you need in terms of intimacy, or maybe not at all. And what's really transformed is that I feel much more secure and much more safe in my body, which I didn't, before, I used to feel like, the way maybe handled my sexual energy was very much displacing it, it was a sense of like, I'm not in control of my sexuality, and I'm repressing my urges. And that really attracted to men who elicited discomfort in me, because they were maybe seemed really creepy or lecherous, because they were sniffing out that energy unconsciously, and it came off for them, like, I'm going to control your sexual energy. That was the match that I was having. So, yeah, so now it's much more like.

Candice Wu 46:04
That makes a lot of sense.

Aleta Cai 46:05
Yeah. Now, it's much more just like people who are just grounded and connected to their sexuality. I'm matching with those people. So, it's just I think it changes everything. It makes you I think, more creative, too, if you're open to your sexual energy.

Candice Wu 46:21
Absolutely. I think it's one and the same and, and that permission to have pleasure seems equated to permission to have desire, and to, to have what you want in life. And if it's coming from that clear place, not of resistance, not of like fighting against part of yourself that is natural. It can be so powerful.

Aleta Cai 46:47
I agree. And what I learned, that was key in my own healing was that for a lot of women, and just generally, but especially women are body sometimes may not feel safe and pleasure, because we're taught, oh, this is wrong, or there's some sort of unconscious programming that says that. And so, as you orient your body to feeling safe with pleasure, and associating it with good pleasure and not just escapist pleasure. I do feel like this instinct gets displaced in unhealthy ways of self-medicating or getting that quick fix, which can actually be self-sabotaging. But by tapping in and connecting to a healthy version of pleasure, you're then creating it unconsciously and in your body, that it's okay to pursue that. So, then I do feel since I've been on that path, opportunities, opening up and work, in friendships that are just generally more pleasurable, because I feel okay with it. I'm allowing it, life is pleasurable, I feel if we allow it to be.

Candice Wu 47:51
Yeah, absolutely. I completely agree. And it's, it feels like an underlying thread of worthiness, too, that you're worthy of it, and you're worthy of the pleasurable experiences that are coming your way. And that life, I don't know if I'd say life is meant to be pleasurable, because I can't say that for everyone. But for me, it feels like coming to the place in my life where it's meant to be pleasurable.

Aleta Cai 48:15
Yeah, I agree. I feel like there's also this struggle with that, I think in the collective unconscious, it's like, not only like, how much do I deserve to have this pleasurable, but what is deemed, I guess, okay. Like, I feel like sometimes I came up with guilt when I was this pleasurable experience. Why do I get that? Why is it that other people don't? Or, you know, there's, I guess it is tied into self-worth. But at the same time, I do feel like most people can find some sense of joy or pleasure in their day to day, I mean, sometimes I'm so just happy that I have like a piece of chocolate. And that's pleasurable and itself, I think it's really about like, understanding that pleasure may not come with expectations, and that just something so small can be so pleasurable, and everyone has access to that innate state.

Candice Wu 49:07
Oh, absolutely. And you're bringing up this idea of why do I get this pleasure, and someone else might not in that guilt, or maybe even shame, and that's something I've worked through myself. And I wondered, for you, especially you brought up your ancestry and your family and your culture.

Candice Wu 49:27
This, this is something that's not sexual related, but it's definitely sensuality and pleasure. I was eating crab legs, with this partner, ex of mine, and I just started crying while eating it, because I was like, my grandparents would never buy these for themselves, they would never spend the money, they would never feel like they would be worthy of it. Why do I get to be enjoying this? When they can't, and I don't think it's that they can't, it's just that they make choices differently. But what that came from, for me was this feeling actually of love, love for my family, and loyalty. And the way that it showed up was, if I don't have pleasure, too, I'll be loyal to them. And I'll love them.

Aleta Cai 50:17
Wow.

Candice Wu 50:19
And so when that came through, it was like, Oh, that's just not the way to love, that's not loving. I mean, it is, you know, in a backward way, but there's a new way to love. And that was an old way. And I can love them and have pleasure. And they can have it, too, If they choose. They may be in a different situation but some people perhaps can't choose that. But at least my loving can be more pure and clean now.

Candice Wu 50:47
So, I wonder for you how your ancestry comes into sensuality and sex and pleasure. And you'd mentioned some of the belief sets that you'd have you had worked through? Yeah. Wow. I mean, I'm also Chinese. So, I, I don't doesn't mean we have had similar experiences. But I did wonder, you know, what, what the experience of your ancestry brings to this conversation?

Aleta Cai 51:17
Definitely. Well, I do feel like there's underlying cultural misogyny that I've come up against. And that comes into form with this basic underlying philosophy of Neo Confucianism, where the idea before, at least from my understanding in China was, women are not valuable or as not as valuable as men. And then women were then, you saw this happen in orphanages where there are just lots of little girls that were discarded because of the one-child law, because everyone wanted a boy, and how women kind of their only hope for a better life would just be to marry off into a family and she became their property.

Aleta Cai 51:59
And being, bringing Neo Confucianism, I believe that was this underlying feeling, or this like program, which made me feel like my body, my vessel was owed to men. So, I found this happened not only sexually where I was just so like, and this is I feel like collective too, because of porn and the way that it's distributed and, and shot where it's really about worshiping the phallus, like, male pleasure is predominant. So, I felt kind of without realizing that my, it wasn't about my needs, I was not in touch with myself. I think I completely dissociated in sex when I was younger, and I couldn't get past the shame, and I couldn't get passed, making it about the other person completely and making sure that they were feeling pleasured.

Aleta Cai 52:47
And I also saw this happen energetically to where I was running my partner's energy through my body. And that always felt weird because I didn't want to, I wanted to be in my own experience, I just didn't realize that it was this unconscious piece that may have been cultural, that I felt like my body was owed, that my body was like somebody else's property in a way.

Aleta Cai 53:11
And I came up against also like my mother, she brought me up in a very traditional Chinese home, where she and my father, they had only slept with each other. And they were married when they did that, and there was a lot of shaming about dating or exploring their sexuality was just like a, why would you ever do that kind of thing. We never talked about sex ever in the household. So, when I started to kind of assimilate a little more and start to become, you know, I started to be a little more open with the way that I relate it to men, I do feel like I experienced quite a lot of judgment from my mother. And that hurt. I think, just when you get disapproval from parents, it can be really, it can feel life threatening sometimes because you relied on getting their validation or being part of the in-group to be able to, as you said earlier, express your love to fit in, to be taken care of as a child. So, yeah, I think that it really broke me down. It disconnected me from my sexuality, from my needs, and it's an ever-growing process. But the more I'm in touch, the better my life is.

Candice Wu 54:19
Yeah. Wow. Thanks for sharing that. Socially and was self-love?

Aleta Cai 54:24
Sure!

Candice Wu 54:25
Any thoughts about that today?

Aleta Cai 54:26
Self-love? Yeah, I've actually was thinking quite a lot about this today. I would say. So, I recently had a client who we did a little practice where we worked on self-love, giving herself some assurance and connecting to her inner self. And she had a lot of resistance to it. I saw a clairvoyant image, it was almost like a little hole inside of a tree that was in her heart center. It was his idea where it was like this little hole that wouldn't receive, you know, it's like rooted and really strong and beautiful, but she had trouble receiving love from herself because she was taught to hate herself.

Candice Wu 55:07
Oh, yeah.

Aleta Cai 55:08
And what I told her, yeah, which I feel like is a common thing. I feel like, for anyone, we're always coming up against that harsh inner critic, and reasons why we're not good enough. That's just the way that our culture I feel our society is built on just like creating these voids and making people feel not good enough. So, that will buy things and self medicate. So.

Candice Wu 55:31
Yeah.

Aleta Cai 55:32
Yeah, yeah. And what I really found was that, sometimes even because I've worked so much on self-love, what happens is then, we can, if we're like very much in, I'm very much in my third, third eye, so, it's like a lot of mental activity, I will sometimes think that I love myself, when my still my programming, unconsciously, is just repressing that inner critic where I don't feel good about myself. So, I think that's really the conflict that some people can run into when it comes to developing a better protocol for self-love is that it's, maybe we're bypassing or suppressing that part. That's still just like the ego trying to monitor and trying to criticize and trying to judge ourselves.

Aleta Cai 56:19
So, what I found through this client was that no, actually, the pure self is the one that knows how to love, the pure self when we're born.

Candice Wu 56:26
Mmm, yeah.

Aleta Cai 56:27
Yeah, I feel like as a baby, you're hardwired to be such a loving creature, because how else are you going to receive care? If you're not bonding, because love is bonding. And so it's just a natural way of being. So, it's not about, for her, like, she felt like she had to force herself to love herself, or like bypasses part. No, it's really just clearing the clutter of what it is these programs are and realizing that these are just programs, they're not your real self. And as long as you start moving those pieces out, you're also moving out the resistance to the self-love, because that's at the very bottom of all of this.

Aleta Cai 57:03
So, I think that the solution, I used to think that self-love was weirdly outside of me that it was something that I had to grab and like pull into my body. But really, it's something that's already core, and it's just clearing, that needs to happen. And then being more accepting at the same time, I do feel like there's a balance, because I do feel like being hard on myself and not being self loving or accepting has driven me in many ways to achieve I do feel like when we're really hungry for achievements constantly, it's maybe still coming from a place of I'm not enough, or for some people, not for everyone, for me definitely.

Candice Wu 57:46
Right.

Aleta Cai 57:47
And by doing that, I just I started to realize that it's part of knowing what motivates you. And, and knowing and I don't want to care what the think. But I think, the bottom line is, if your achievement focus, you do care on some level what other people think. And that can be useful, too, you can decide not to take it in, but still, use that as a way to sell a way to like kind of monitor where you are in your life and how you're kind of positioning and achieving things. And that may be also motivating. So, I do find it kind of a balance, because I don't want to be the person who is just so accepting that I don't feel like I need to do anything at all. Okay, right?

Candice Wu 58:30
Right. Right. Right. That's beautifully said.

Aleta Cai 58:35
Yeah, thank you. Um, so I think it's always fine tuning, always going back and reevaluating where you are and how you want to feel, and giving yourself permission to feel good about yourself, and allowing that I just kind of jump over feeling good about myself. When I've achieved something, I just go to the next thing. But that's being very, very harsh on myself and I need to kind of move that a little bit further on the spectrum towards being a little softer and gentler, and kinder with myself.

Candice Wu 59:05
Yeah, and like letting ourselves enjoy the moment of celebration and pleasure and reward, and not skipping it.

Aleta Cai 59:14
Definitely!

Candice Wu 59:15
It's like sending a message to ourselves that we're allowed to feel that

Aleta Cai 59:18
Yeah.

Candice Wu 59:19
And then we're allowed to feel it in the real moment, real time.

Aleta Cai 59:21
Yes. And this also really ties back into BDSM. It just occurred to me that there's this, I feel the masochistic urge and many people, at least in my experiences in the dungeon, most people they may not have identified as a masochist, but I do feel like there is an undercurrent of masochism. I think it shows up in just the way that we live our lives. I mean, athletes, people say that athletes or masochist because you're pushing your body to the point of pain. I feel like anyone else.

Candice Wu 59:51
Yes.

Aleta Cai 59:51
Yeah, who trains for endurance in any different field or, or puts themselves through very rigorous programs, you must on some level identify with the pain or love it to be able to get through to the next side, because how else are you going to do it? So, I do think that's intrinsic to the human condition is that yes, there's bottom line, a little bit of masochism, maybe a little bit of like, flogging yourself constantly, and maybe a little bit of knowledge, right, or deprivation being like, I deserve that pleasure. And that's just I think it's just all core, it comes back into kinkiness into our primal nature, into our experience of life. I don't want to be the person who gives that up, and doesn't like, you know, hit myself when I'm wrong, right? I mean, I don't, but I punish myself for doing something wrong. But I know that maybe I am hardwired to be a little masochistic as maybe most people are.

Candice Wu 1:00:46
Yeah, I'm laughing because it took me years to realize how masochistic, I was…

Aleta Cai 1:00:52
Really?

Candice Wu 1:00:52
to myself. Yes. And, and, and, okay. Speaking of things being disguised, it was disguised in the form of growth And disguised in the form of like, I guess, quote and quote, more self-love. But it was driven by not enough, or can I prove that I am strong. And it's, what I did for so long, and there's still pieces working out and I can, I can catch myself doing it some times where I go towards a hard experience, something that's like, very intense, or in some in a lifetime, unnecessarily intense for me, because I don't, in a way, there are some experiences that I need to just walk away from, that I haven't learned the walking away from energy or action. And so, I'll just keep going into it and into it in into it, like, intense process groups that are discussing power and authority and leadership, with race, ethnicity, and difference.

Candice Wu 1:02:00
And these are just so such intense experiences, or my most recent experience of being in Ireland, where I did an exchange with this woman, and I didn't know a thing about her, really, and I stayed with her family and in her home. I knew I was walking in a bit blind. And when I got there, it was just an incredibly harsh environment all around, like inner personally, weather-wise, space-wise. The learning with the horses that I was meant to learn there, that was also challenging.

Candice Wu 1:02:39
And without going into all the details, it took me two and a half weeks to realize this was way too harsh of an environment for me to actually learn in a good way. And I think it was just my masochistic side coming out again, and thinking I need to endure something hard in order to learn, I need to endure something to show my grit. And I don't. So, I think what you're bringing up is so important, like there's this fine balance and almost like a deep awareness of what is it that is happening? And is it a pattern, and what all these ways of our being are important at different times. And when have we overused one versus the other. And we're self-love doesn't just mean acceptance all the time of, of not doing anything or acceptance of anything. But sometimes self-love means to say no or to move away from something you feel an impulse to do, or just to use every tool we've got. What do you think about that?

Aleta Cai 1:03:39
Absolutely. I'm thinking, I'm thinking, yes, it's a gradient. And I do find that is based on what you shared in your experience. That part of the masochism for because I also share that I've put myself through very enduring acts and experiences knowing that maybe I can take it, maybe I can take it, maybe there's something to be learned. And I often do find that even though I may be really burnt out or drained, there is something valuable in that because it helps you recalibrate where your boundaries are, as you're saying, what shade or which, which compartment or which, like what the balances and on the spectrum of your personality, what works for you.

Aleta Cai 1:04:22
I do feel like when we are looking for hardships, again, tying in masochism, or going for that I do feel like the struggle is needed to find resilience. I do find that many of the times when I have had pain in my life, I've learned so much more than if I were just having this really, really lovely experience that's no in no way painful or disappointing. And so a lot of times I, too, I'm drawn to situations that may be a little difficult or really difficult. And through that, I find that we can see the gifts a lot, a lot clearer. So, I think there's a reason why we are programmed the way we are when I do find that even with these things like if we are, if we do accept the premise that people are programmed to be masochistic by nature, and that's something that's driving us in certain situations, then there must also be a part of us that experiences pleasure through that, too, because that's ultimately what masochism is, you find pleasure and pain?

Candice Wu 1:05:24
Yes, yes. I think that makes a lot of sense and the desire underneath the masochism to grow or to learn something new, or reveal something, or recalibrate a new boundary, as you said, it's this constant push-pull between the balance of where you are, and then the pushing into something uncomfortable that gets us to a new place or a new expansion. So, I think that makes a lot of sense.

Aleta Cai 1:05:50
Yeah, I just recently came across this really beautiful story about a butterfly and how the butterfly needs that struggle of emergence to be able to become a butterfly. And if it's short-circuited, then the butterfly will die. And so, that really helps me see a lot of this in a new perspective that a lot of this transformational process is about the struggle of emergence. That's what allows us to be who we are.

Candice Wu 1:06:19
Wow! Beautiful. Thank you so much, Aleta, I really enjoyed this conversation. And I learned a lot and we dug into some really interesting topics. Is there anything else you want to share today?

Aleta Cai 1:06:34
Nothing that comes to mind. I really, really enjoyed this, too, thank you.

Candice Wu 1:06:39
Thank you. So, you have an audience gift for people listening. Is that right?

Aleta Cai 1:06:45
Hmm. I do. I decided to offer 10% off for any of my vanilla healing services. So, these are not my in-person BDSM sessions. But these are ones that are remote and you can book those online through my website at EletaCai.com/booking.

Candice Wu 1:07:03
Excellent. That sounds really exciting for anyone who's interested. Thank you so much.

Aleta Cai 1:07:10
Thank you. It was a pleasure to speak with you today.

Candice Wu 1:07:13
Same with you. Take care.

Aleta Cai 1:07:15
You, too. Bye, Candice.

Candice Wu 1:07:18
Thank you so much for joining us today. I had so much fun with this conversation. And I hope that this has also inspired you or you found parts of yourself within this conversation to identify with and that it inspires you on your continual journey of healing and loving yourself.

Candice Wu 1:07:37
You can find Aleta at her website AletaCai.com, as she had mentioned, it's also going to be linked in the show notes, as well as her Twitter, which is @AletaCai. Be sure to check out her remote healing work as well as mentioned this podcast for that 10% if you're interested, and tune in later this week for an experience that is led and guided by her that you can use to practice and deepen in your own understanding of yourself and transformation.

Candice Wu 1:08:09
I want to thank you all for listening and being with me on this journey of this podcast. It's been about a year since this began. And so this is the Embody Podcast's birthday, I can't remember which day started. I'm not that great with birthdays. But only just a couple of weeks ago, we had Chinese New Year and the seventh day of Chinese New Year is everybody's birthday, which I think is around the day of the podcast's birthday. So, thank you all for being here. Even if you weren't here from the beginning or if you've bounced in and out. It's been a really beautiful journey. And I've loved all the conversations that I've been able to have with different people on the show as well as all of you that are reached out to me, share your experiences. It's just so delightful when I opened my email and I get a note from either someone I know or a perfect stranger that's been listening in and these connections really make this journey a lot of fun and very rewarding. Thank you.

Candice Wu 1:09:20
Before you go, I'd love to invite you to sign up for my bi-monthly newsletter. This will inform you of upcoming retreats with me, workshops, other courses, and classes online, as well as self-love notes. These are tips every couple of weeks that I send out that offer you a way to heal, a tip or a technique that can support you along your journey. If you'd like to sign up you can find it at CandiceWu.com/embody. And with that, we will end this week's podcast. I look forward to seeing you next time on the Embody Podcast.

Candice Wu 0:00
This episode is with guest Harmony Niles, the founder of Kink from the Couch. We explore ritual in relationships, BDSM as a new romance. Her experience as a predominant, acceptance and releasing shame around what may feel unacceptable for oneself, touching into core erotic themes and embodying fantasies, as well as dominance and submission in life and fantasy. This episode contains explicit and sexual content and language and may not be suitable for all audiences or ages. Please use your own discretion.

Candice Wu 0:37
Hello and welcome. You're listening to the Embody Podcast, a show about remembering and embodying your true nature, inner wisdom embodied healing and self-love.

Candice Wu 0:51
My name is Candice Wu and I'm a holistic healing facilitator, intuitive coach, and artists sharing my personal journey of vulnerability, offering meditations and guided healing support and having co Creative Conversations with healers and wellness practitioners from all over the world.

Candice Wu 1:12
Do you wish for better sleep for the holidays? The sound sleep album is on sale through the new year for $11. And this episode is sponsored by that album. It's an album of 11 healing experientials and meditations plus yoga poses and marble points, and a spiritual guide that helps you feel more grounded, restful, easeful in your sleep and embodied throughout the day. It's a stepping stone towards healing trauma, feeling embodied, bringing your nervous system baseline to more relaxation and calm and looking at the deeper aspects of sleep issues. So, your support in ordering the album helps me make more healing albums more content and produce more podcast episodes. This album was a delight to make and I hope you enjoy it. I would be so grateful if you considered offering to a friend who would like better sleep, or someone who wants to feel more embodied in their lives. You can find that at CandiceWu.com/soundsleep.

Candice Wu 2:20
So we have Harmony Niles today on the podcast. I'm so excited to share this episode with you. It was incredibly fun to talk with her. And to talk about a topic that I haven't really talked much about on the podcast specifically is sex and sexuality fantasies, as well as BDSM. All of these are topics of interest to me, and it was great to share that with Harmony. Harmony is the founder of Kink from the Couch. It's a Somatica counseling practice based in San Francisco. And her energy about sexuality, fantasy and exploring erotic themes is incredibly inspiring, beautiful, full of grace, humanity, and compassion. The Somatica method is a really interesting one, it recognizes that we learned primarily through our bodies, which is very similar to somatic experiencing.

Candice Wu 3:29
When using a combination of talk therapy and experiential exercises. Harmony leads her clients to embrace their full sexual selves without shame. And under her guidance, you'll find your own erotic embodiment while developing and negotiating practical BSM skills and other vital practices that can bring healthy kink into your relationship. So, whether you're in San Francisco or far away, she is an excellent resource and counselor to connect with on this topic. And just to share a little bit more about harmonies path to being a sex counselor. It included learning about Tantra, orgasmic meditation, the human potential movement, and NLP. And she was an independent professional dominant for a decade. She developed her DS skills, her dominant-submissive skills at Cleo Duarte Academy of SM Arts and studied Bondage with Midori.

Candice Wu 3:49
So, a beautiful thing about this episode being published today, December 17, 2018, is that it is the international day to end violence against sex workers. So, the sex workers outreach project is an organization that joins sex workers, allies and advocates from around the world in recognizing December 17th, as the day for ending violence against sex workers. And it's a day to come together to remember those that were lost in the year and to renew commitment to the ongoing struggle for empowerment, visibility and the rights for all sex workers. The majority of violence against sex workers is not just violence against sex workers. It's also violence against trans women, against women of color, against drug users and immigrants. And so, their mission speaks to the fact that we cannot end the marginalization and victimization of all sex workers without also fighting transphobia, racism, stigma, and criminalization of drug use and xenophobia.

Candice Wu 4:07
So, during this week, the week of December 17, annually, sex worker communities and social justice organizations, well, stage actions and visuals, and work to raise awareness about violence that's commonly committed against sex workers. You can find more information about this at December17th.org. I'll also connect to that information in the show notes along with the National Sex Worker Hotline in case you are aware of any violence against any of the populations that we just spoke about here, or sex workers in general, that number for the National Sex Worker Hotline is 877776 2004.

Candice Wu 5:56
So, it's with great pleasure that I introduce Harmony to the show today, who has been a sex worker and can speak to her own experience of releasing shame, and supporting others and doing so in embodying their fantasies.

Candice Wu 6:17
I am honored today to have Harmony Niles on the show Harmony is the founder of Kink from the Couch, which is a Somatic counseling and coaching practice in San Francisco. And, I'm so thrilled today to hear how Harmony incorporates helping her clients embrace their full sexual selves and the BDSM and kink experience and knowledge she has in helping people feel into their fantasies in their desires. Hello, Harmony!

Harmony Niles 6:48
Hi Candice, thanks for having me.

Candice Wu 6:50
Oh, it's wonderful to have you. How are you doing?

Harmony Niles 6:54
Things are good. And thank you.

Harmony Niles 6:58
Yeah, I am excited about the work that I'm doing. I love the clients that I have. I'm feeling really blessed. Yeah, things are very good.

Candice Wu 7:08
That's fantastic. I'm really excited to hear about your journey in getting to where you are today and supporting people with their sexual being.

Harmony Niles 7:21
Um, it's been a long and winding road to get to the point that I'm at right now. And I really feel like I have completely embraced my calling, like, this is the work that I was put on this earth to do. So, I feel really lucky that I was able to find this fairy. Well, I'll call it like a clean and clear and inspired, the way of looking at BDSM and the kind of healing that it could offer people.

Candice Wu 7:58
That is so exciting. And how did you know it was? How did you know you found your calling? When you did, was there a moment or a feeling that you had?

Harmony Niles 8:07
Hmmm. Trying to think back when there was an actual moment. There was a moment years ago, over 10 years ago when I was in a like transformational workshop, and I had this feeling of like, I want to be a dominatrix. Like, and I felt so much fear around it, but also switches so much excitement and turn on. Could I do it? Is this possible? Like, could I handle it and then I really started pursuing that, again, with lots of fear and trepidation along every step of the way. As I moved more in that direction, feeling like I was bringing so much into my own personal life that was really good for me, ultimately. I really changed a lot as a person through that journey. And then after doing that for, like, a decade, I thought about how can I keep the things that I really love about this work? And maybe shed some of the things that I feel done with. And what I really loved was listening to my clients' fantasies.

Candice Wu 9:29
Oooh. Wow!

Harmony Niles 9:29
I would listen to their fantasies, and really like to pay attention to all those rich details, all the minutiae of it. And I would feel like I learned so much about them in hearing these stories. And as a dominatrix, then I would figure out the ways to deliver that feeling that they're really wanting that feeling they're looking for, and maybe giving it to them in a way that they weren't expecting, something that was a little surprising.

Candice Wu 10:02
That sounds so, so fun and incredible. I'm kind of in awe about it.

Harmony Niles 10:07
Well, in my current work, I am still listening to people's fantasies, as I mean, that's one of the main things that people come to me to explore. And I'm teaching them how to bring those things into their life, and a healthy and safe way, how to talk to their partners about it in a way that where the partner can really get it can really like get behind, wanting to give them the feeling that they want to have, you know, to talk about it in a way that that really enrolls your partner into saying, Yes, I do want to be part of that.

Candice Wu 10:41
Can you give us an example of what that language or energy sounds and feels like to bring that excitement to a partner or to a romantic interest?

Harmony Niles 10:55
Well, I think the first step is being able to talk about your desire, letting go of some of the shame, because when we have a lot of shame around it, it's like there's a way we get tight. And in that, not attractive, you know, your partner is going to be less likely to want to jump into that scenario. If you're feeling weird and incongruent about it, if you're holding it in a way, in a negative way. And so, yeah, like step one is just giving someone the space where they can talk about their fantasy, or whatever their desire is, even if it's not fully formed yet. Maybe it's not a full story, but just an image that they have or a feeling that they want to feel. And they can talk about that in a way that emphasizes what it gives to them, where someone can really feel like the power that it has done, like how much they want it and hold it in without shame, where they can talk about it without shame, so that everyone is enrolled and doing that.

Candice Wu 12:06
Beautiful. Yeah, it just feels so exciting to hear you talk about how you connect people with that core desire that's underneath it, the feeling that they really want to have. And I can just feel it in my bones and in my body. And in my own experiences where that just feels like so connecting with myself, the deeper aspects of myself and to have that in a sexual experience and to have what you desire. At least for me, I was just talking to another person about this just recently on a podcast is like having what you want is already a big step to even open up to what you desire. And how does that come up for you? And in your practice?

Harmony Niles 13:00
Let me just clarify the question. So, having what you want is a big step towards getting what you desire?

Candice Wu 13:06
Yeah, I think having even the question of what do you desire? What do you fantasize about? And perhaps, of course, it's related to that same piece like to even be allowed or feel the permission to want and to have something that is truly your desire and your creation. I think it's such an empowering and big step. And then you're taking it further to release the shame and then go for it.

Harmony Niles 13:42
Now I agree with you. It can be so empowering to just have someone listen to you in a way that loving and accepting that safe, where you can feel seen in that part of yourself, maybe one that you've always wanted to hide. Now, I think that when we go into relationships, we start off by giving our partner this very, carefully curated version of ourselves. And we put forward the sweet and nice parts. While we know that whole time that there are perhaps darker things underneath, that we're keeping hidden. And when you finally bring that out and like and let your partner love you there, too, you can really have that experience of a feeling seen as a whole person.

Candice Wu 14:34
Wow. Right. I'm just connecting to some of the fantasies that I've had. And when I've connected with them or experienced them, either by myself or with someone, it often brings me to that place of something hidden or a piece of myself that wants healing, even. And I'm curious, you said you have learned so much about yourself over the course of being a dominatrix and working with this with yourself and your clients. What are some of the things that you learned?

Harmony Niles 15:15
As you were talking, I was thinking back to an article I wrote a quite a while ago, but it was about BDSM as the new romance. Because I see romance as a way to especially like romantic gestures, like flowers and candy and a lot of this sweet kind of Valentine's Day things as a way to put a marker like an anchor point here on your feelings for someone to and then offer it up and show it to them. It's like they have something tangible. Now, and kink and BDSM has lots of rituals that do essentially the same thing. It's like putting a marker on your feelings for someone and showing it to them. And maybe, in this case, it's the color around my neck is symbolizing my service to you, or I put on a corset. And as I tighten it, I feel like I'm putting on strength. As I became more aware of this in my practice as a Pro-Dome and a lot of the little rituals I'd create, sometimes even a ritual for different and specific clients. I started to think about how can I have more of these rituals, in my own relationships, in my own private relationships? And I started to create little things for myself and my partners as well.

Harmony Niles 16:41
And then I would really feel, gratified and comforted and loved in those rituals. For example, me and an ex-boyfriend of mine, we had a ritual that how we always said goodbye to each other. Where he would take my hand in his and kiss my palm, you know, it's a very sweet, sweet gesture. It's not necessarily, you know, submissive, per se, it's just meant to show a moment of devotion. And it is hard to be mad at someone when they are doing this sweet gesture of kissing your palm, it was like a good way for us to always be close and in a loving space to reconnect to, you know, that connection between us.

Candice Wu 17:34
That's beautiful.

Harmony Niles 17:35
Yeah. And then I started getting crazy with it. And I created rituals for myself around like, keep my own self-discipline in the morning. Now I do little rituals with my daughter, like, I love the way that it brings us back to this kind of shared intention.

Candice Wu 17:55
I love that it's um, it's like the practice of minding yourself, the connection that you have with someone or with yourself, and what you want to be experiencing, and cultivating that. And I just imagine this picture of like dipping a cloth and to dye over and over. And it just becomes richer and richer.

Harmony Niles 18:17
That's a beautiful image.

Candice Wu 18:19
I'm curious about your experiences as a dominatrix. And did you? What did you find for yourself? Was this empowering for you? Was it healing? Did you find challenges with it? What was that like for you?

Harmony Niles 18:35
I'm going to say yes, yes and yes, it was definitely, it was definitely empowering, is definitely challenging. In fact, it's crazy to think that even after having years of experience, I would still feel so much fear and nervousness, like right before doing a scene, especially if it was something, you know, complicated or challenging. And it was a good practice for me to feel that fear and walk into it anyway. You know, step forward anyway. But one of the things that is challenging about this type of play, is that you really need to be present and paying attention in every moment so that you can really feel the connection between yourself and your partner. And know when the moment the energy starts to go away. You don't want it to, to know right away. If it's not, to not get stuck into any rut, but to always be paying attention, which is great practice for life.

Candice Wu 19:51
Right! I was just thinking that the amount of presence and attunement, and sensing in, that is called for in that interaction.

Harmony Niles 20:07
I wrote an article recently that I called what to do when you don't know what to do.

Harmony Niles 20:13
And I think what's inspired me to think about this topic is I realized, back when I was practicing dominance professionally, one of my greatest fears was what happens when I get to that moment where I don't know what to do. And now the like, one of the biggest questions I get from clients is, you know, what happens when I don't know what to do next? Or, you know, or are my skills are good enough to do this next, you know, it's like, everyone seems to be wanting to wait until they have all of the skills and all of the confidence. But if you wait for the day that comes, I mean, that's a mythical day, but that's never going to come up you like you're never gonna feel perfectly confident, and I'm like, you have all these skills from everything. Of course, it's great to, you know, invest in working on those things. And that's a lot of what I help clients do now is help them work on their confidence, teach them skills, but also I want to teach them and acceptance for the fact that there's going to be times when you don't know what to do yet next. And I've given a lot of like, practical tips around. Okay, that moment of what we'll call it, existential uncertainty has arisen. And so, what are some of the things that you can do next? What can you try? What kind of techniques can you pull out?

Candice Wu 21:39
So, the matter of exploring, exploring the different possibilities that can arise from that moment?

Harmony Niles 21:48
Yeah. In many of those moments, I think, like, I think those moments can be a real gift. So, the first thing is I tell people to do is, “Don't be afraid to go slow”. And take that moment, you know, to feel the sweetness, and the poignancy of that kind of low and the action, because energy can't just go up, up forever. There need to be periods of falling energy, or you're relaxing and savoring, you're getting ready for what the next peak would be.

Candice Wu 22:23
Those seem like really very sweet moments, if you can, tender moments if you can sink into them and surrender there.

Harmony Niles 22:30
Yeah, what I would usually do is I would stand close to my partner, maybe I put my hand on his chest, lock eyes with him, and just take a moment to breathe. And in those moments, I would start to feel more of what he's feeling. And then it's like magically inspiration with usually come, right? Right in those moments, inspiration would come about what to do next.

Candice Wu 22:58
It's like slowing down and just tuning in and letting something arrive, arrive there. That's it's a lovely reminder. And before our conversation right now, I was sharing with you how I've been horseback riding and playing with this dominance with a horse and how much is the right amount? And what is the collaboration here? And I think I could very well use this, these ideas here praying about what to do, and you don't know what to do, because there are so many times. I don't know what to do and I'm meant to be somewhat in charge in these moments. But you also work with people on how to step into their dominant self?

Harmony Niles 23:48
Yes.

Candice Wu 23:49
And what does that mean, for you or for your clients? And for people asking?

Harmony Niles 23:58
I'm glad that you asked that because people have a lot of different ideas about what it means to be dominant. So, I have a conversation with my clients about like, what is it going to mean for them? How will they know when they are? Look, like if they are being what they think of as dominant? What's that going to look like over here? Like, what am I going to feel in, in relation to that? So I try to give people the opportunity to talk about that and then to practice it, what is it going to be like for you to show up with your dominant self with me right now? You know, how would you talk? How would you move? If we do this exercise together, like, what are the things you're going to do with it, etc, etc. Like, give them the opportunity to practice those things, because it is actually really hard. Some clients have an idea that they want to talk in a certain way, but until you start literally practicing, and like getting the words out of your mouth, there's just a learning curve there. Right? I always had a lot of trouble talking dirty, I would feel silly, I would feel self-conscious. You know, I would be resistant and not wanting to do it because I just felt like I don't sound good. But you know what, now I can do it really well. It's because I've practiced.

Candice Wu 25:32
Yeah, there's such a difference between just talking about what you think you want to do, what you're going to do, and actually practicing it and using your voice and using your movement. That's really exciting.

Harmony Niles 25:47
I think the words dominant can also have certain like meanings and connotations for people. Generally, in my practice, I try to just talk about it from, are you going to take a position of control or you going to take a position of surrender. Just to give people more of a sense of like, the flexibility there, you might start off in a position and control and end in a position of surrender, you might be passing control back and forth, like within the context of a certain scene, a certain night, or your relationship in general. That dominant doesn't have to be like, some rigid category that you're either in or you're not, but something that you play with.

Candice Wu 26:34
Yeah, that sounds a lot more like daily life. And just how can you bring in those different parts of you to interact at different times? And what's needed and what's desired?

Harmony Niles 26:50
Yeah, and this goes back to you and your horse to it's like, what piece of bringing your dominant self or show of force and an interaction is the right thing for that moment? And what might be the right thing for that moment is actually more softness.

Candice Wu 27:13
Yeah, I think so. And what you were saying earlier about paying very close attention, it was in a moment that I wasn't paying close attention, that something kind of went haywire. And just bringing that amount of attention and attunement to the horse, I think it's going to do a great deal to note to figure out what to do or to receive some more information. So, I'm also curious, Harmony, about the shadow aspects of the work and the experiences that you have with yourself and with people. I guess I'm curious about what you find in terms of BDSM, or kink or different scenes and fantasies. What is the healing aspect? What are the shadow aspects that come up? You know, these are very broad questions, but what do you see as interesting about this right now.

Harmony Niles 28:15
Let's say, I think that to be able to bring out some part of yourself that you've really kept under wraps, all of our shadow stuff comes out eventually, at some point, right? It's going to come out and some like moment, when you're really triggered, or you're not feeling who control when you're not able to, like keep that under wraps. And then it might come out in some like, icky way that you're that you don't want. So, by creating a safe space, where you can bring that part of yourself out to play, in a way that feels good to you, in a way that's like healthy and safe for everyone involved. I think it's going to make that thing like less loud in the rest of your life. Do you get what I'm saying? Like maybe, if what you really are trying to keep down and stifle is, you know, this angry part of yourself or this cold part of yourself, or this really harsh or domineering or aggressive part of yourself. And you give that space to come out in a nice, like safe container, then it's going to be less loud in the rest of your life. So, maybe you'll find yourself, like better with your co-workers, more patient with your children nicer to your pets, because you've gotten to express these parts of yourself in other ways, and been able to feel like fulfilled and seeing their you know, that angry part of myself as okay, too.

Candice Wu 29:52
Yeah, absolutely. And I think as you're saying that, it's reminding me of the power of creating that safe container, within a relationship that allows that sort of play to come through and witnessing of, of these, either more painful parts of us or parts we do keep hidden. And within that container of the relationship, it feels like a play. It feels like we're gonna entertain and not entertain, but we're going to bear witness to all these different parts of ourselves. I guess the words that are coming to me are be okay with them, not just be okay, but honor them.

Harmony Niles 30:39
Yes, I think for me, one of the things that I really got from this type of work is that I was able to create a space where I had complete control. Where everything that's happening is because I'm choosing it, you know, I'm like completely calling the shots. And that's not something that I had experienced much have in my life.

Harmony Niles 31:04
And so, I found myself, like, trying to control things, but not really being able to and being frustrated about that and feeling powerless or so, when I went into this work and became a dominatrix. Just the idea that I can have it exactly as I want it was so comforting and just good for me. I felt less desiring to control everything else in my life because I had an area where I could be in control. And so it let me relax in some other areas. The irony, of course, was like when you're, when you are in a scene, it's like you might have this fantasy that you're in total control, but of course, you're not you're very much needing to, you need to surrender to the moment that's happening. And so it is helped get me beyond that need for control, in general, is like I started to see the falseness of it. The, yeah, just like the uselessness of it. You know, here I am in this, like in this scene where I've completely controlled everything. But you're still surrendered to the moment, you know, and all my trappings of control are just trapping.

Candice Wu 32:26
It feels like all an illusion.

Harmony Niles 32:28
Yeah. And you start to see the illusion of that. And then my desire to have everything perfect, you know, like my ducks always in a row. I started to relax around that.

Candice Wu 32:38
Uh huh. Yeah, I can imagine that.

Harmony Niles 32:41
I know, like, I realized, you know, it's not that meaningful, anyway.

Candice Wu 32:45
And it's fascinating, I'm often more in a submissive role. And I think that I desire that because of the amount of at least perceived control that I feel like I have in my life. And I think I take a lot of initiative, and I'm very proactive in a lot of ways, and letting things be letting myself surrender to the moment and not be in that control, letting things arrive and be experienced. It's such a nice balance, as you said, as well for you. So I can relate very much to that.

Harmony Niles 33:25
Mm-hmm.

Candice Wu 33:28
So, what feels alive to you lately? Any themes or personal or client themes?

Harmony Niles 33:37
Okay, like, problems that I've been working on.

Candice Wu 33:42
Sure? Yeah, love to hear about that.

Harmony Niles 33:45
Ah, well, in the current me to climb it, many of my clients are asking about consent. And I have also been thinking about consent, in my own life, my relationship with it, you know, from the time that I was young, until now, and how that's changed, you know, what advice to give to people who, you know, want to do the right thing, and also want to go for their desires as well.

Harmony Niles 34:18
It's been really interesting to be thinking about into exploring it. And I have come up with some good exercises around like exploring consent. And I'm, the exercises that I'm trying to do is around getting consent non verbally, and checking in through the course of an interaction to, to just be sure that your partner is still with you, you know, that they're still a yes, that they're still like, engaged in what's going on. And that's tough to do on both, for both sides of the equation, or for both partners, right? Because we always have moments of where we're maybe dropping out of being completely present. We've gone into our heads for a second and we start to fantasize about something else. So, a way to keep your, to draw yourself back, be present, reconnect to your partner, and ensure that you have consent going ahead, that they're still into it, that they're still with you. And I've been thinking of like how to do that in in a way that feels seamless? How to do it in a way that isn't, let's stop and talk about it. Can I touch you here now? You know, because that's not hot.

Harmony Niles 35:38
And as much as it can be, this is a climate where we need to ask for permission for what we want to do. I do know that often when, when players are asked, it's like, oh, well, I did want it until you asked me. That can throw you back into a more resistant place. So yes, I've been working on different exercises to teach people like how to pay attention to their partners' body so that they know when they're when they're reaching a boundary, when there may be crossing a boundary, or when like any kind of resistance in their partner is coming up. So, that can be addressed in a way that's, you're still sexy, subtle enough, but clear, also.

Candice Wu 36:29
Yeah, I'm thinking about this movie, I can't remember what it's called. But it was like a teenage couple and the guy kept saying, “Do I have your permission to, do I have your permission to kiss you to have your permission to X, Y, and Z?”. And he had to, he was asking me on every single thing. And I love this idea of nonverbal communication and being seamless about it being so in tune with each other. And I'm imagining that's having a lot to do with eye contact and breath and body tension versus openness, what are some of the things that you teach people to send into and look out for?

Harmony Niles 37:14
On this topic, I'm so happy that I can do really experiential work, you know, one on one with people because it does look different, for different players and for what you're doing. That's why I'm having trouble even like describing it right now. Because it's something that is hard to put into words. And this might be a situation where I would practice with a client, like, if I am having him touch me in a particular way, and then he starts to get to an area that where I feel nervous about, or that's a boundary, for now, you know, where he can feel how my body reacts. You know, how my breathing might change? How just how, like the energy changes to, and he can pick up on it right away. And then maybe in some cases, revisit that boundary, because that was my boundary, you know, 10 minutes ago, as the play goes on boundaries can shift. And I think that you, I do want it to teach people to go up against the boundary, to not push too hard. But don't be afraid to go there either.

Candice Wu 38:22
Sounds like a really juicy spot.

Harmony Niles 38:25
It is that kind of that point of resilience.

Candice Wu 38:31
There's something about going right to the edge of the experience and the boundary that feels exciting feels like yes, no. Yes. Something new to learn there, perhaps.

Harmony Niles 38:45
And I think that's what we all want. Like we want to go right up against our boundaries and ultimately work in a really respect the partner who can take us there. And it takes a little bit of bravery, but also a whole lot of pain, attention, and sensitivity. So that you're you're going to the edge and you're not going over it.

Candice Wu 39:10
Absolutely, yeah. And as you do this work, the Somatica work with your clients, what are some of the more practical coming questions you're getting? I know you mentioned that to me before some common questions that people are just wanting to know about.

Harmony Niles 39:28
I talk a lot about negotiation skills. And I often will get questions about that. And I've written a couple of articles about negotiation, too.

Candice Wu 39:40
We can link those in the show notes.

Harmony Niles 39:41
Oh, sure.

Candice Wu 39:42
Okay, great.

Harmony Niles 39:45
And some of the questions that I get might be like, very, very practical, like a woman who wants to give her partner the experience of being really manhandled and dominated, either, though, you know, she is a lot smaller than he is, and that she's very petite. So, what kind of techniques can be used to give her her sense that feeling of feeling big, you know, a feeling strong hair, and that can also give him the experience of feeling like helpless under her touch. And is there are like practical things that you can do with the setting with your costume with like, you know, putting some good rope handles on him that makes it easier for you to move them around. Now, so I will, when appropriate, like bust out the rope and teach someone, this harness could work really good in this situation. And this might help you feel the thing that you want to feel, or feel the thing that he wants to feel. So I can be very practical, like around those type of tips and advice.

Harmony Niles 40:58
And I like to talk about things on a higher level, too. Like, if you want to feel that strength and dominance, what can you do in preparation for a scene, to help give yourself that feeling. I like to do archetype work when appropriate. And I do you like to have a conversation with clients about play archetypes and what working with an archetype, identifying an archetype can help them with. And one of those things is knowing what to do when you don't know what to do, because you can ask yourself, well, what would my archetype do here? If there is a toy or an article clothing that really speaks to that archetype for you, you could pick up that toy and feel like how am I archetype use this now? How would my archetype talk? Or maybe how would my archetype tease and then can give you some ideas about like, about what you want to do next, or what direction to go in. And it can help you feel that dominant power, that feeling that you might be looking for.

Candice Wu 42:11
I love that. Tuning into that, to the energy of the archetype that can just open up all the ways of being that come with it.

Harmony Niles 42:21
One of the things that I've liked about using archetypes in my own scenes, is that I never think of it as acting, but it is allowing me to bring out this part of myself, you know, and when I asked myself, “What would this archetype do?”, and I start doing that thing, I can find myself really like falling into it really easily to becoming that image. And it feels very authentic, it feels true to me. And that's one of the things I love, you know, it does, it doesn't feel like I'm forcing it. It doesn't feel like it acting, so, it's like I'm just opening that door and letting that part come out.

Candice Wu 43:05
That's such an interesting line or edge that you're talking about this experience of being authentic, yet embodying archetypal energy or some part of yourself. And where the line between that authenticity is, and the acting, or the not feel, not feeling like it's you or forcing it. I'm not sure if what the words would be here.

Harmony Niles 43:33
I do know what you mean, now that because and that feeling of forcing it, that's not the feeling you want to have, I guess it's like, it's really hard for things to flow. When, when you feel like your efforting, you want to embrace it authentically so that feels effortless. We're just flowing out of you.

Candice Wu 43:54
Yeah, it feels almost like it's a flattening disconnecting experience to be in that acting place.

Harmony Niles 44:02
Yeah.

Candice Wu 44:03
Where can it come from within?

Harmony Niles 44:06
Yeah. And that being said, it's like I'm saying, I want it to be effortless. But you know what, you might have to practice a little bit and put a lot of effort and you put a little effort in, in practice time or in your own downtime, or in session with me. And then, in the moment, it can feel more effortless?

Candice Wu 44:25
Yeah, that's a great reminder of that practice, because at first, it might feel completely uncomfortable.

Harmony Niles 44:33
Yeah. And that's good. That means you're coming up to your own edges, and you're expanding yourself. That's what we all want.

Candice Wu 44:40
Yeah. So in the work of some Somatica, I think, I'm not sure how the people listening, how much familiarity they'll have. So, wondered if you could share a bit more about the way that touches incorporated.

Harmony Niles 44:57
I'd say in a typical session, well, maybe I shouldn't talk about a typical session, because they all can be very different. But we might start out with talking, checking in, feeling into the issues that are rising for someone on that particular day or that week. And as someone talks to me about like, what's going on for them, my mind will start to turn on, what's the experience that would help them here.

Harmony Niles 45:33
And then I'll start to think of an exercise or something experiential we can do, that will help illustrate where it's going to give them the experience that I think is what they need next. Well, some of these experiences might not include touch, because the experience of talking to someone of like sharing your desire, especially if it's something that you have shame around, and feeling that stuff you're being listened to, and supported and completely seen, that's an experience, too. But many of the exercises that I like to do, do involve touch, and maybe sometimes some, you know, rough touch, if that's the direction that the client needs to go in, and if that's what they need to feel, and I'm lucky that I've had, you know, as much experience in the BDSM and as I have, because I can say, what feels good to me, and give adjustments about like, what would make it feel better. You know, it like if someone is, for example, someone is grabbing my hair by the back of my neck, you know, there's a way that that can feel off and painful, there's a way where it can feel actually really kind of good, comforting, like you're being held. Now, like picking a kitten up by the scruff of their neck. And so if we practice that, I can give the adjustments of like, oh, now, you need to be a little lower, or you need to be a little stronger. And then feel what it feels like after he's made that adjustment. And can you tell the difference now, that my body is responding a little differently, and notice that?

Candice Wu 47:17
Hmm. How fun!

Harmony Niles 47:19
You know, it is really fun. I feel very lucky.

Candice Wu 47:23
So fun. It's like, making me interested in going into that realm of work. I mean, I do, I do work with clients, as far as their fantasies, and some BDSM and kink in stepping into what they would like for themselves or embodying the core feelings they want to have around their experiences. But I haven't delved into, I think what Somatic brings a lot, which is the interactive touch that you can do with a client. And that's not something I've delved into. But here you talk about it, it just sounds so exciting!

Harmony Niles 48:02
I feel like I've gotten a lot from it, too, like, I've gotten very clear on my own boundaries and, and being a yes when I'm a yes. And I no when I'm a no, in a way that's clear and clean and non-blaming, where I'm not like putting something on someone else. And that's just helped me in every area of my life, especially my dating life.

Candice Wu 48:32
Oh, wow. Yeah, a lot of congruence with your inner self and showing up outward and responsibility. It sounds like. So, you have an audience gift? To all the listeners, I'm understanding your core erotic themes? Would you tell us about that?

Harmony Niles 48:53
Yes, well, really, it's more of a gift for me, and a gift for her.

Harmony Niles 48:58
Because what I'm offering is to have a structured conversation around exploring your core erotic things. And in this, I would want to hear about my clients' fantasy, or maybe a few fantasies, preferably even something that they've held for a long time, something long cherished, maybe that they remember from when they were young, something that's kind of a reliable turn on for them. And once we talk about that, then I'd love to be able to give them some insight into how they might create this in their lives, how they might talk about it with a partner, and what are some of the things that maybe they haven't seen it yet, that's part of their turn on? Because often there are details that we don't notice right away. That we might need, like an outside person to point out to us. Where we, we see like, Oh, that's a piece of it that I didn't actually realize was there. But it showed up in a couple of these different scenarios.

Candice Wu 50:09
Oh, that's so fun. Right, I can see where I might not be aware of some piece that's actually the piece that's bringing the excitement or the feeling.

Harmony Niles 50:19
Yeah.

Candice Wu 50:20
That's very interesting, right?

Harmony Niles 50:22
Yes. Well, I would love to be a person.

Candice Wu 50:27
You know, what were you gonna say?

Harmony Niles 50:29
I was, I was going to give an example.

Candice Wu 50:32
Oh, say that!

Harmony Niles 50:33
It is a conversation I had with a friend not too long ago, but he was telling me about a fantasy and then about one of his, like, hottest sexual experiences. And I noticed that in each of these things, are these stories, these scenarios, there was a third party disapproving, like, outside of the room or outside of the relationship. And I just pointed that out to him. And he was like, had so much surprise. He's like, Oh, my God. Yes. I didn't ever thought of that before. You know, so, it gave him something to think about like, what this like, third party disapproval? How much that is tied into his feeling of like transgression and hotness. And this is like, so exciting. Partly because it's pissing off someone else. And that's okay. Right? You know, like things like, guilt or anger or going against the rules, like, these are aphrodisiacs for a lot of people and there are sometimes ones that we don't recognize.

Candice Wu 51:45
That's great. Yeah, it is just painting such a picture of how we can accept so many parts of ourselves that maybe in daily social life, society that we don't bring out or see as, um, I don't know, socially palatable or desirable. But in this context, to be able to bring them to life, and feel that permission, to experience them. That's so powerful. Oh, thank you so much Harmony, is there anything else you'd like to share today with, with who's listening?

Harmony Niles 52:30
Here's something I realized and exploring some of my own fantasies, now I did this in a workshop that I was in, like, super long time ago, 10 years ago. And the assignment was I needed to write out three fantasies, and then bring them to class the next week, and share them with a partner. And the teacher just wanted us to have the experience of being honest and vulnerable. So, I got super into it. I wrote out these three fantasies. I was really excited about how different they were, I thought that I'm showing so much range here. And, and I wrote them really, really well. So, I was excited about the fantasies that I brought in. And then it was like, right before I needed to read them to a partner, and I'm looking over them. And I realized, wait a second, all three of them are cocksucking fantasies. You know, I thought they were so different.

Harmony Niles 53:40
Actually, literally about the same activity. But it was a very different flavors of that, you know, like, and one of them I was very dominant and another submissive, the other one was just kind of funny and wacky.

Harmony Niles 53:56
And I was a little bit like, not happy at first about this realization, it didn't feel feminist enough of me to have, all my fantasies be about cocksucking, you know, where they mostly culminate in someone else's orgasm and not my own. That didn't jive well with my feeling of, my desire around, my own empowerment around my feelings as a feminist. And so, I was like, what the hell, what's going on with me? For a little while, and I did a lot of, questioning around that, too. So it was really useful work for me to do. And I started to relate some of the feelings that I get from that activity to some of my own childhood experiences.

Harmony Niles 54:50
You know, apparently, I just like it, I have a cock fetish. And there's, also a way in which, to be a little bit ignored, or to be the tool for someone else's pleasure is really hot for me. And that does very much connected to, my experiences in childhood and feeling, ignored as a child, or, I needed to fight for approval, that I constantly needed to prove myself. And so in fact, I was often trying to prove myself trying to, prove how strong I am or how much I can take, wanting approval, but not wanting that approval to be easy. Like, I need to struggle around it.

Candice Wu 55:37
Right? It's funny because I'm hearing you put words to your experience, and I can completely, it's almost like I'm saying those words ago. I think we're, I can really relate to you on that same those themes. And that experience. And the other thing I was thinking was you shared that you weren't quite happy with. Noticing this part of yourself that seemed to go against the grain of girl feminists self, is how much we can judge our fantasies or make meaning of them. And I think they're embedded with meaning, but the meaning of just having that fantasy, and how it can rub against another part of you.

Harmony Niles 56:26
Exactly. And one of the things I like to talk to clients about is that when I see that they have some kind of something like that some activity coded to mean a certain thing. It's just a question that reality, like, does that really mean that, you know, does it mean that in some circumstances, but not others, you know, it just trying to bring a little bit more flexibility there. And especially this idea around like to be submissive or of service is a weakness is totally false. If for me, I was actually looking for a feeling of strength, that I'm the one who's strong enough to do this, you know, to provide this, to take this, whatever it is to be taken. And I think that many players who like to play the submissive side of the equation are looking for similar feelings. It's more about proving that they're strong than feeling weak or just feeling the tension between those two things.

Candice Wu 57:31
And that makes a lot of sense and connects me back with some of my own desires. With that, I think, feeling my own strength, feeling that I can, I can take it and also, can't quite put words at the moment, but I hear myself just repeating the words you said. But um, there's something about reclaiming. Maybe not reclaiming. But being in the strength and resilience that was there in me, all those years growing up, that I got ignored, and perhaps was used in a lot of ways emotionally or interactively, and to really step into the other side of that of feeling the strength and feeling that I did it and I can do it is extremely empowering.

Harmony Niles 58:32
I agree. For me now, in my sex and dating now. So, I know that this is a feeling that I like, that feeling of having to struggle, that feeling of needing to, like, prove myself or fight for attention. And I can bring just more consciousness to having that in a way that works, rather than a way that's going to be bad for the relationship or destroy the relationship.

Candice Wu 59:05
Oh, and what is, what do you mean by that, like, what works and what doesn't?

Harmony Niles 59:10
It might be like, I had a date with someone recently, where I took the movie over to his place, this foot fetish film that I was in a long time ago. He projected onto the wall, and I sucked his cock while he was watching it. And I felt like that was really hot for me. But it's that feeling of being the star that's on the screen, but also performing this service where I'm kind of being ignored, because he's watching the screen, there was just something about like, the different threads, and that that was a real turn on for me at the time. And I could create something to have that experience with him, which means I'm not like, kind of getting him to ignore me in other ways, which I think I haven't done before with other partners, you know, like, I've been not very accepting of attention when I get it. And so, that, you know, teaches people not to give me much attention, which then is you know, pleasurable and painful at the same time.

Candice Wu 1:00:18
Right.

Harmony Niles 1:00:19
So, now I'm trying to create those experiences and just more purely pleasurable ways.

Candice Wu 1:00:24
I get what you mean, I think I'm getting what you mean. Where it kind of comes out sideways, in the dynamic of the relationship in an unpleasant way, or maybe destructive way. Whereas it could be extremely pleasurable and fun, is that what you mean, to create it more intentionally?

Harmony Niles 1:00:43
It is. It's about like if I know the experience that I want to have, like an even be more accepting of what I might judges the negative aspects of that experience, like a desire to be ignored? How can I make that in a way that's going to be more fun, and be more contained, you know, like, so that's the this is the moment to have that experience. And then I don't have to be feeling it the rest of the time. You know, if I, if I really like to feel used, you know, I don't really want to feel used all the time.

Candice Wu 1:01:22
Right.

Harmony Niles 1:01:24
But I do want to feel us, so I can set it up in a way that's going to feel good to me.

Candice Wu 1:01:29
And it feels like the difference between it being a state of being in the dynamic versus that more isolated, set experiences.

Harmony Niles 1:01:41
And it's been separated from like, my sense of identity. Like if I'm being used, it's not because that's all I am, or that's all I'm good for or these other things that I might have it mean, it's because it's an experience, I'm just choosing to have in this container.

Candice Wu 1:02:00
And what I'm getting as well, or just what I'm thinking about, as we're talking about this is the amount of ownership and responsibility that goes into even saying that I want to be ignored, I like to feel ignored. And it turns me on. And that transition of resisting some of the pain and experiences that live in us. And not like not owning them not wanting to feel them at all, which I think is also you know, part of having boundaries and part of what we might need to and want to experience but where it turns over into, well, what if I do want that?

Harmony Niles 1:02:44
Yeah.

Candice Wu 1:02:46
And what if it is pleasurable in some way.

Harmony Niles 1:02:49
Another thing I've been thinking about in this topic is how, how there's this pleasure in that the poignancy of that kind of pain, that for you to take on an experience, like feeling ignored, you know, it is a turn on, and there's a pleasure there. And there's a little bit of like a, you know, like, it's like, it hurts so good. Now, feeling and letting that be okay, you know, it does. I don't think life is about, you know, being happy, happy, joy, joy all the time. It's, it's more about feeling like how pleasure and pain can be deeply intertwined. And that there's a real like, poignancy to the human experience, no, and suffering as part of that.

Candice Wu 1:03:45
Absolutely feels like the fullness, and the dimension of the pleasure and pain being together.

Harmony Niles 1:03:52
Some of the moments I've felt the most alive have been in BDSM contacts where I'm going through extreme pain. And, like, the just the feeling of intensity, the feeling of aliveness. It's like a pleasure that's better than pleasure. You know, it's like an orgasm beyond bodies.

Candice Wu 1:04:16
I can feel that as you're saying, and I can relate to it. And the thing I'm thinking now is when was the last time I checked in with my fantasies? And it feels, it feels almost like, such a healthy thing to do, and a very connecting thing to do for me. Where right now I'm thinking, I feel quite disconnected at the moment from those parts of me. And yes, I've been tuning into more of like life fantasies, like what do I really want for my life? And what do I want to spend my time doing? And to connect back with. What are my sexual fantasies? It's like, it feels so essential at the moment, and yet, it's been some time to revisit them.

Harmony Niles 1:05:11
Yeah. You know, I honestly think it's one of those things that practice helps with too. Yeah.

Candice Wu 1:05:18
So, I think we do have a ritual.

Harmony Niles 1:05:23
I should. I'm going to go out and make one.

Candice Wu 1:05:27
Okay, great.

Harmony Niles 1:05:27
Yeah. A lot of people who say that they don't fantasize, do frequently, but it might be such a fleeting thoughts, you know, like the image that just kind of flips through your mind and is lost those, those dreams that we have in that space of being half awake, half asleep or over, you're not really paying attention. But your fantasies are there. So, the practice can just be like, bringing more attention, you know, when an image does arise, like, Oh, look at that! If I flushed that out more, what would that look like?

Candice Wu 1:06:05
That's great, that's really helpful.

Harmony Niles 1:06:06
Or you can even sit down daily and write something like, ooh, what would I want right now? If there was no shame, and nothing to hide? If I could have anything? Why would I want?

Candice Wu 1:06:21
Oh, that's great. I'm going to do that very soon.

Candice Wu 1:06:27
Well, thank you so much, Harmony! I've learned a lot about you and about what you're sharing. It's been really fun to dive into this with you and hear your stories as well. Where can people find you if they're interested in your work?

Harmony Niles 1:06:42
I would love for them to check out my website, kinkfromthecouch.com, and there's a contact form there. If they'd like to reach out to me, I'd be happy to have a 20-minute call, with anyone who's interested in exploring this type of work, maybe has more questions about it, or wants to know what I can be able to offer them. Then we can talk about that.

Candice Wu 1:07:07
Fabulous. Thank you. It's been such a pleasure.

Harmony Niles 1:07:11
Thanks for having me on.

Candice Wu 1:07:16
Thank you so much, Harmony, for being on the show with us today. And for all of you out there that are listening in getting curious with us and exploring your own sexual experience. I found it very exposing and vulnerable to share certain things on the show here today, even though I didn't share all that much. But to have Harmony on this show with her specific set of experiences and her comfort level was incredibly fun and offer the space of safety that I could even share some things here. It really speaks to the level of shame in our society that talking about our sexuality is such an important aspect of who we are, is so shameful sometimes or taboo or can bring shame. We're just having to release lots of layers of that shame in life now. It's like the most creative aspect of our lives. And here we are keeping that under wraps and feeling scared to share about them when we all have some aspect of our sexuality even if it's being a sexual to speak to about our experience. It's very normal.

Candice Wu 1:08:26
So, thanks for listening. I would love to hear your experiences, your thoughts, curiosities, and feel free to reach out to Harmony with exploring your core erotic themes. And you're more than welcome to reach out to me to share your experiences to gain further support or develop in your embodiment or to work with any trauma around sexuality, sexual experiences, your body. If this was fun for you, be sure to tune into the visualization experience that Harmony offers. It's about getting to the heart of your hottest sexual fantasy, where you'll dive into your hottest sexual fantasy, whether it's kinky or not. And Harmony will walk you through a Somatic a practice of embodying this fantasy that specific to you and zeroing in on the core erotic themes that really turned you on.

Candice Wu 1:09:18
Lookout for that later this week as it comes out on the podcast. And just to process this all, experiences like visualizing your hottest sexual fantasy don't always bring the inspiration or excitement and fun that we hope it to or that perhaps we'd like it to. I recognize it also can bring fear, anxiety, shame. It can trigger trauma or other experiences that have not been good around sexuality or the body. And that's why it's really important and helpful to have support. So, if that pertains to you, don't hesitate to reach out to Harmony or to me and we are connected with a whole network of health practitioners and embodiment coaches, therapists that can support with any of those experiences.

Candice Wu 1:10:10
So, as we close today, I wish you all have pleasure in your lives. If you'd like to stay connected to me, feel free to sign up for the bi-monthly newsletter that goes out with podcasts and self-love and healing tips as well as dream work courses and retreats, and other information of upcoming events. You can find that at CandiceWu.com/embody. And if you're on Facebook, you can join the Embody Community which is a place to have a community around healing and self-love. And I offer five to 10-minute videos from wherever I'm traveling or located at the moment to support embodiment. It was wonderful to be here with you today and to have Harmony on the show. Thanks so much and we'll see you next time on the Embody Podcast.

Candice Wu 0:00

Welcome to the Embody Podcast. Today, we have Harmony Niles on the show to share with you a visualization around the heart of your hottest sexual fantasy. This episode contains explicit and sexual language and may not be appropriate for all audiences or ages. So, please use your own discretion.

Hello, and welcome. You’re listening to the embody podcast, a show about remembering and embodying your true nature, inner wisdom, embodied healing and self-love.

My name is Candice Wu, and I’m a holistic healing facilitator, intuitive coach, and artist, sharing my personal journey of vulnerability, offering meditations and guided healing support, and having co-creative conversations with healers and wellness practitioners from all over the world.

Harmony and I had a fabulous conversation around dominance and submission, sexual fantasies, embodiment, the #MeToo movement, boundaries, and consent. You can find all of that on CandiceWu.com/harmony. So, find a place for yourself where you can tune in to this somatica practice of embodying your hottest sexual fantasy and connecting in on the core erotic feelings and experiences that truly turn you on. Here’s Harmony.

Harmony Niles 1:28

Hi, this is Harmony Niles with Kink from the Couch. I am a somatica practitioner in San Francisco. When you decide that you want to create your hottest possible sex life, your first step will be towards understanding what is truly hot for you, and you in particular. What is hot for you and all of the details? And underneath details, what is the emotional core there? What is the feeling that you truly want to feel? I’m going to walk you through a visualization exercise that will help you get down into the heart of your fantasies.

Now, I am taking this exercise straight from the somatica playbook. If you want to get live support in doing it, you could go to the Somatic Institute website and find a practitioner in your area. We all know this one, it is really core.

Put yourself into a comfortable position. Take a nice deep breath in, and as you let it out, just start to notice your body. How do you feel right now? Take another nice deep breath into your chest, and as you let it out, feel that going down into your stomach, down into your pelvis. One more breath in, and as you breathe out, feeling yourself getting heavier in your chair, sending your breath all the way down to your pussy or to your cock.

As you’re starting to really feel your body, I invite you to bring up a memory or a fantasy. Maybe it’s one of the hottest sexual experiences you’ve ever had, maybe it’s something you’ve always dreamed about having. Imagine something that you’ve had for a while maybe a memory that you cherish or a fantasy that’s always really worked for you, something that you find particularly arousing, reliably arousing. And as you’re starting to imagine this fantasy or remembering this experience, put your whole body and into it. Let it fill you up. Build the scene with as many details as possible. Where are you? Who is there with you? What does the environment look like? How does it smell? What are you wearing or not wearing? Who are the other players in this scene? What are they wearing? What do they look like? What is your relationship with those people? What are you all doing? Let yourself focus on this scene and zero into the thing that really turns you on about it, maybe you’re participating, maybe you’re just watching.

As you are seeing and experiencing the scene with as many details as possible, start to notice the feeling that you have. What really matters to you right now? Take a moment to notice that feeling that you’re feeling and give it a word, a name in your head. Make a little mental note. Now, it may be hard to pinpoint and that’s totally okay. I’m going to say some emotion words, and when you hear one that particularly resonates with you, just make a mental note of it, because maybe there are a few feelings going on, maybe those feelings are actually conflicting with each other in this moment, and that’s totally okay.

Maybe you feel loved, decorated, processed, beautiful, connected, cared for, alive, creative, pushed, received, dominant, collaborative, submissive, adored, worshiped, used, naughty, afraid, penetrated, adventuresome, ravished, seen, dissolved, impressive, united, spiritual, trusted, punished, capable, probed, exposed, out of control, open, accepted, powerful, free, not responsible, transcendent, appreciated, in control, generous, celebrated, violated.

Let yourself feel that feeling right now. Spread it through your body, even go back to the fantasy or the memory, and see what about it makes you feel that feeling, is it something in the actions, the environment, the relationship, as you build a good image and idea of what that feels like. Take another nice deep breath and come back to the room.

Congratulations on taking the first step towards understanding your core erotic themes. I hope you found it enlightening. The next step is to have a conversation about it. Go to my website at kinkfromthecouch.com and fill out the contact form. I will schedule a free call with you where I can help you learn to talk about your desires without shame. I can help you celebrate what you want in your sex life and move towards getting that.

Hope to hear from you soon.