Candice Wu 0:00

Where can we soften? And how do we invite our bones to change? In this episode, Lauren Maxwell and I explore finding pleasure, how to change the shape of your spine, where we can soften to support and know ourselves and the human task of learning to feel safe in your own truth.

Candice Wu 0:18

Lauren teaches people how to uncover the south and chaotic times and to heal their spine.

Candice Wu 0:27

Hello, and welcome. You’re listening to the Embody Podcast. A show about remembering and embodying your true nature, inner wisdom, embodied healing, and self-love.

Candice Wu 0:40

My name is Candice Wu, and I’m a holistic healing facilitator, intuitive coach, and artist sharing my personal journey of vulnerability, offering meditations, and guided healing support, and having co-creative conversations with healers and wellness practitioners from all over the world.

Candice Wu 1:01

Some of you have already heard about the dream class that I have on Skillshare. It’s a class on how to unfold and awaken your dream life so that you can harness the power of your dreams, take the wisdom of your dreams, and bring that into your life. And so this class is about how to record your dreams, harvest your dreams, or remember them and create intentions for your dreams that you can begin to collaborate with your dream world.

Candice Wu 1:45

It’s a class that is free until the end of January. So that means you can view the class for free right now. I would love to invite you to see that class and to take that into your life. And to also take a look at the future classes that I will have, that will invite you to explore your dreams through embodied and natural ways, and to feel into the meaning of your dreams. And bring that energy into the wholeness of your being and your daily life.

Candice Wu 1:59

So look out for those classes. And you can find this class at CandiceWu.com/dreamclass1. And if you do decide to sign up for a premium Skillshare membership, you can do so at the link as well and get two free months for free or some other special offer from this link that I’m offering at CandiceWu.com/dreamclass1. And that premium membership will allow you to access the future classes that are within the premium membership. That also includes other teachers and other skills that are being taught. All sorts of things like yoga, photography, arts, really interesting things. So feel free to check that out. And I would appreciate your support and checking out the class and giving me your feedback and joining in. So again, it’s CandiceWu.com/dreamclass1.

Candice Wu 2:55

Welcome back, everyone. It’s wonderful to have you here today. I’m thrilled to have Lauren as a guest here. I want to just give you a quick update by now. I’ve been in Ireland a couple of weeks, and I am getting adjusted quite well to the cold, to the mud, to working with horses. Last week I shared an alive now episode where I talked very candidly about what are the challenges that I’m experiencing and what I’m learning, what I’m going through, as far as living on a farm, being with four horses and learning natural horsemanship. All the things that I’ve never done ever in my life, and it has not been easy. So you can check that episode out at CandiceWu.com/horselifeireland.

Candice Wu 3:46

But for today let’s jump into talking with Lauren here on this subject of where can we soften on all of the wonderful topics that she brings. She has a zine called How to Uncover Self in Chaotic times, and very simple and basic practices that everyone can get on board with. I love how she talks with such a gentleness around herself and reminds herself where she can soften and be compassionate to herself.

Candice Wu 4:18

She is a creative human being who specializes in writing, storytelling, and her daily practice, and also is a Yoga for alignment back care and scoliosis teacher who believes in the transformational power of healing work. In her personal yoga practice, she was able to eliminate her back pain and change the shape of her spine. And what she found was she was laughing and creating more. And so now she’s honored to help others do the same thing.

Candice Wu 4:46

That’s really lovely to see how Lauren creates a soft open space for others to gently and lovingly come back to self. So she offers yoga ritual and intuitive coaching that is meant to empower others to navigate their life challenges in a way that honors their truth. And she loves helping others choose a softer paradigm for success to claim their creative channel in the world and step into a more loving relationship with themselves. So without further ado, here is Lauren.

Candice Wu 5:21

Today is a lovely day to have learned Maxwell on the show. Lauren is a creative human. She’s a storyteller. She’s a yoga teacher, she does yoga for alignment, back care and scoliosis. And she has this wonderful zine on How to Uncover Self in Chaotic times. And today over here, in Germany, where I am, it’s kind of gray, it’s very slow, it’s after the holidays. And Lauren, as I understand it, it’s raining over there. It’s the perfect weather to tune into the feeling of softening, which is one of the energies that you bring to the world. Welcome, Lauren.

Candice Wu 6:05

Thank you so much, Candace is such a pleasure to be here. Thank you for having me, it’s an absolute pleasure to have you. And I would love for you to just share a little bit about yourself, what you offer to the world, what interests you and who you are.

Lauren Maxwell 6:19

Thank you, I really appreciate your intro. And you know, the ability that we all have to step into these multifaceted identities because so often, you know, we end up kind of sticking with one label or another. But I’ve been exploring, you know how I am, a writer and a creative, and a student, and a teacher, and an intuitive coach. And I focus on back here I specialized in scoliosis, herniation, spondylitis, general back pain, and other things. And all my work centers on the idea of uncovering self and learning to nurture the truths that are there, whether that’s in a physical practice, or a spiritual or a creative practice. So the idea is to find and create together soft open space to really feel comfortable and doing that.

Candice Wu 7:14

That’s beautiful. I love the feeling of tuning into softness. And I’m so curious, when you first learned about that, or brought that into your life? What was that like for you?

Lauren Maxwell 7:29

Yeah, you know, it’s been a really interesting journey, and something that I think everyone might be able to relate to, in some way. Because the idea of softening can have to do with the physical body, or the emotional and energetic body. And often, in my experience, those things are very intertwined.

Lauren Maxwell 7:46

So for example, when I began my own path, in the back care world. I was living with a lot of back pain and had sort of a hardened, almost protective shell that I had developed with my own back and my own tissues. And as I began to work on that, I thought I was working on other things in a different plane, you know, inner work, work with personal development, and struggle and healing. And then eventually, it became clear that those are all related, and you know, everything is actually connected. And so the ability to soften energetically, physically, really had to do with thinking a lot about boundaries and protection, which enabled me to learn how to step into my truth with confidence and express that and be that in the world, without this sort of fear element and this need to self protect and hold. And so I think that the idea of softening can be really powerful, especially, you know, in a society that doesn’t necessarily encourage that.

Candice Wu 8:55

Absolutely. And when I think about what you’re doing with working with the back and the spine, and alignment, it makes complete sense, that kind of softening, that centering and healing also connects right up with the alignment of self, alignment of who you are, and truth. Is that how are you seeing that work for yourself and for your students?

Lauren Maxwell 9:22

Yeah, absolutely. You know, I think in terms of the back, we can literally carry a lot there. And so for example, with me, I was also working at the same time with the chakra system. And over time, with the guidance of one of my teachers who was doing a really beautiful series on the chakra system, her name is Caitlin Heppell, she’s in New York City, I discovered that, you know, some issues I thought had to do with the heart chakra, were actually maybe money for a chakra, the solar plexus, and that is the center of self-protection.

Lauren Maxwell 9:58

And you know, we often find that we’re gripping there and I was finding at times that sometimes I couldn’t catch my breath, you know, the diaphragm was literally a bit tense and tightened up. And as I learned to soften into that, and release, because you know, it’s maybe working with healthier boundaries, or thinking about that in a different way, I was able to soften the breath, soften the solar plexus, learn to be in my body, and therefore in the world, in a different way. And that really did support my emotional work and healing as well.

Candice Wu 10:33

Beautiful. For a person who is learning to soften in that way. How do you describe that? How do you do it?

Lauren Maxwell 10:42

Yeah. Wow, this is such an intriguing question to me, you know, because I’ve thought a lot about pleasure. And the idea of allowing ourselves to live with the themes of pleasure rather than guilt and shame, for example. And I think that pleasure offers so many keys to our own healing, you know, if we stop and are willing to listen, there can often be signals or allies waiting for us there within a pleasurable experience.

Lauren Maxwell 11:17

And, you know, in the book, Emergent Strategy, which I’m reading right now, Adrienne Maree Brown. And I recommend this book to everyone it’s so great, calls herself a pleasure activist, and she talks about and this really resonated with me and the thinking and work that I’ve done around pleasure in my own life.

Lauren Maxwell 11:35

She talks about how pleasure encourages stepping into evolution and expansiveness and growth and confidence, you know, in its own way, whereas we’re living through a lens of shame and guilt, we’re probably acting from a place of constriction and limiting ourselves, and that same lens of fear that I mentioned earlier.

Lauren Maxwell 12:00

So, you know, I’ve really thought a lot about, when you find something pleasurable, you know, how can we listen to what it’s telling us, and also, I think, corresponds with what we mentioned earlier about how our society doesn’t necessarily encourage softening or pleasure, instead, we’re taught, that, you know, success corresponds with blood, sweat, and tears, and we have to, you know, grab the bootstraps and pull ourselves up. And there’s certainly something to be said, for you know, working through difficult times, and finding achievement anyway. But there’s also another approach that is within us and available to us, and is stereotypically, often thought of as more feminine in nature, and it’s more collaborative and more community based and more cyclical. And, to me, that does correspond with the ideas both of softening and of pressure.

Candice Wu 12:55

There’s so much in that with what you just said. I’m just taking it all in.

Lauren Maxwell 13:02

Yeah.

Candice Wu 13:03

Let the stuff get into me. I think, pleasure, it’s in my early years of healing work, I and yoga, and being in my body, I just had no idea how to feel pleasure, really. And I think that I had just conditioned myself to harden and to protect, and to survive. And I did that very well with all this tension in my body, and by the time I got to my healing work, it was like, okay, let’s feel through all this stuff. And I kind of like plowed through it. So it wasn’t in such a soft way. And then when pleasure came into the mix, it was like, oh, there’s a different way to do this all.

Lauren Maxwell 13:56

Oh, I love that. Yeah, wow, it’s so interesting, the way that we will approach our healing and unfolding work with that same, you know, achievement mindset, success mindset, milestone mindset, that we’ve been so programmed to buy into. And the writer and tarot reader, Sarah Gottesdiener, who did the many moons workbook has also influenced my thinking on this by talking about how, you know, healing is not linear, and progress was not linear. And that also ties back into these spiraling and cyclical patterns that we were talking about earlier, that are everywhere in the natural world, and that I think we have the ability to allow ourselves if we, you know, stop and listen and consider different patterns that we might start to adopt.

Candice Wu 14:45

Yeah, and to think of cyclical and moving in and out, and just how things can weave in and come loop back in sometimes or jump back to a different place to try to control all of that, is a complete hardening and, like, so much tension.

Lauren Maxwell 15:09

Yeah.

Candice Wu 15:10

So you have, one of the things you share in your biography is that you change the shape of your spine and you had back pain. Can you tell us about that?

Lauren Maxwell 15:21

Sure. So I thought that my spine was just built a certain way, and that I needed, the one that I was going to have to live with pain, and just kind of accept that. And it was really an illuminating and beautiful experience to meet a teacher at yoga union in New York City, who took one look at me and said, hey, we need to fix that shoulder. That’s probably why you’re having hand pain. Listen, do this practice and then you’ll probably start to feel better.

Lauren Maxwell 16:08

So I was sort of tied to my old thinking around yoga and the practice I’ve been doing for years. And I thought, oh, well, if I slow down and approach this differently, I might lose strength, I might lose flexibility. And she said, Lauren, but what if you can do something better for yourself on a deeper level. And I thought, okay, that’s interesting. So I tried it. And sure enough, my hand pain and back pain disappeared within about two weeks. And you know, I had tried physical therapy, chiropractic. And it’s not to say that those things aren’t valid, because they are, but it’s to say that looking at my spine in a very personalized and therapeutic way was transformative. And my mind was blown.

Lauren Maxwell 16:30

And I had been sort of drawn to studying yoga for a little while, but I thought, no program felt quite right to me. I felt like I was searching for something that offered a different kind of depth, and I wasn’t sure what that might be, or specialty. And then all of a sudden, it was like, oh, this is it. So I had some asymmetries in my spine, a bit of curvature and then most importantly, I had my upper spine, there’s a natural rounding in the upper spine that everyone should have. But mine was accelerating into hyperkyphosis, which is a bit more rounding than should be there.

Lauren Maxwell 17:07

And this, you would know, what I was talking about with a visual, the shoulders begin to round, the chest begins to collapse, the head begins to come forward off the spine. And this is really can be a form of heart protection, this can be just a simple issue with posture, for example, I’m very tall and also very relational and you know, my moon is in Cancer, I love connecting with other people. So I find myself often getting down on their level trying to get my eyes in the same position as theirs. And then, of course, all of our technology and devices makes it really hard to stand up.

Lauren Maxwell 17:45

And sometimes you have, for example, my joints there but hypermobile so that makes it easy to be slouchy. So anyway, I ended up doing this practice and what we do in the back care style of yoga, is take a lot of time to linked in and traction the spine. And then we also strengthen the postural muscles, so that the body can support the structure of the spine and learn how to sometimes stand in a different way.

Lauren Maxwell 18:19

So sure enough, after about nine months, I was seeing a chiropractor who takes X-rays regularly and we took my X-rays, and you know, my spine had changed. And it was just amazing that the hyperkyphosis was totally gone. And you know, I did grow. So I was getting a bit taller. So I knew that that had happened. And I also knew in my yoga practice, that things had shifted.

Lauren Maxwell 18:42

And so it was, you know, again, a reminder to myself, to try not to be results-oriented with this amazing X-ray. But also it is a wonderful validation to see, you know, the time that you’ve put in has been meaningful and has counted for something really important. And so it’s like, always that reminder and this is something I often share with my students, when they say like, talking about scoliosis, for example, well have the curves reduced, how many degrees, what are the numbers.

Lauren Maxwell 19:16

And I totally understand that because that’s where I started, because you want to live without pain, and you want to know that change is possible. And then the thing is, okay, the X-rays are great, but the true gift is living without pain is being comfortable in your own body, which when you’re at ease with your own back, your own shoulders, your own spine, then I think you can be more at ease and the world around you. And that also corresponds with living your truth and accepting it and presenting it as it is.

Candice Wu 19:48

What I’m also hearing from what you’re saying is that sometimes when we want something, it can lead us in the right place. Sometimes it doesn’t, but it can sometimes lead us, you know, to the right path. But then if we stay in that sort of militant path of getting to what we want, like the degrees of the back changing, or whatever, it can at some point limit us from what deeper healing there is, what deeper ease there is, and there is some letting go of, of that whole way of being.

Lauren Maxwell 20:27

Hmm. Yeah, I think that is a beautiful point. And it reminds me of what we were talking about in terms of like, the healing work being cyclical, and cyclical versus militant, if we were to call it that, you know, it’s like, sometimes you address something, and you really feel significant progress. And this could be in your back, or this could be in your emotional life, for your family life, for your own development. And you think, oh, wow, I’m just so proud of myself, I made some progress there. And then, you know, four months later, it might kind of reappear, and you’re like, but wait a second, I thought I dealt with this. And it’s a beautiful practice to learn to say, well, I’m just spiraling through the same thing again.

Lauren Maxwell 21:17

And it might not be as powerful or as controlling as it was the first time around, because I have worked with it. And I have grown, but recognizing again that it’s not a linear path that we’re on, but we will touch these things again and again.

Lauren Maxwell 21:31

And I’ve thought about this in terms of like, the sort of, like, deep, you know, painful struggles that we might go through, but also simply in terms of like, our relationship with our cell phone, for example, you know, like, this is something that we’re all very involved with. And it’s still like, I’ve had times where I felt like, oh, you know, I’m doing great. I’ve put some boundaries in place about what I want the dynamic to be between myself and my devices, you know, and this feels wonderful. I’ve felt like, my brain feels free and expansive, and then all of a sudden, a few months later, it’s like, oh, I think I’m spending too much time on my phone again. And it’s, you’re like, I thought I dealt with this. But yeah, no, it’s the cycle. And you know, we have an opportunity to revisit and reframe and it never has to be the same.

Candice Wu 22:19

Yes, I hear you. I definitely have that experience. You know, just yesterday, I was like, wow, this feeling of grief and fear is coming up and it’s so familiar, but actually, when I went and revisited it and took it to adapt, and a seriousness, like stayed with myself, it actually was a different kind of grief, like just another facet to the diamond.

Candice Wu 22:48

It wasn’t the same exact feeling. And it was coming from a different angle, it was touching in on some parts of my family system that probably experienced this kind of grief. Or actually probably didn’t experience it, but it was left behind for someone else to. But yeah, that cyclical nature, I find that even though it’s such a familiar feeling, if you go a little deeper, if I go a little deeper, I find that it’s something slightly different or a new part of it.

Candice Wu 23:21

So I’m so curious, what is the practice that you did for two weeks that helps everything shift?

Lauren Maxwell 23:31

Yes. So this was, you know, yoga for back care. And it is a very intentional way of looking at the spine and how to address it with yoga postures and breath work. And there are a few principles that I like to think about when working with people that worked in my own body. And you know, first, it’s important to decompress existing muscle patterns that might be pain-inducing.

Lauren Maxwell 24:06

And then it is also important to lengthen the spine like we were talking about, create space for new patterns to be formed. And then yes, form those healthier patterns, strengthen the postural muscles, or teach under working areas of the back, that need to work more or, but you know, all of these things.

Lauren Maxwell 24:27

And then also, there’s an integration component. And these are things that I’m so grateful to my teacher, Allison West in New York City. And also the kind of matriarch of Yoga for Scoliosis, out of the Ayengar System by Elise Browning Miller. They each have themes and principles that they work with. And then it’s interesting, because I think the different teachers in this system, all experience it in their body in different ways, and then you know, unique things to offer students.

Candice Wu 24:55

Beautiful. Sounds amazing. And it’s like this shaping and molding of the back and body.

Lauren Maxwell 25:02

Right, right. It is. And that has been fascinating for me to think about over the past couple of years, because I have a beloved, you know, body worker who, yes, supports the physical structure, but also works with energetic and emotional release, because like we were saying that those things are tied together. And I had a sort of some issues with a shoulder and she’s working on my right collarbone. And I said to her, are you moving my bone right now? And she said, Yeah, why not? You know, bones are alive and well. And they can be, we can work with them, we can negotiate with them. So that’s something you know, I talked about a lot with my own students.

Lauren Maxwell 25:42

And the bones are always regenerating new cells, so in that simple way of thinking about it, like, yes, why can’t you invite the bone into a new position?

Candice Wu 25:57

Yeah, I love it. Yeah, yeah. Well, it’s like talking to your body. It’s communicating and having this relationship and inviting it to step into something different.

Candice Wu 26:11

Yes.

Candice Wu 26:11

I love it. It’s true. And I love the listening component to because I think it goes back to the personal work, the work of uncovering self and the softening. There’s a lot of listening involved, you know, and on a healing journey, in general, it’s like, okay, am I listening to what my back is trying to tell me? Or am I listening to what that tight? solar plexus, the tight money for a chakra is telling me? You know, what’s, what’s there? What can I offer to that situation? What is that situation telling me and just with pain in general, you know, kind of like stopping to listen and say, well, what is the message here? And can I take some steps to offer compassion to that scenario, offer healing to that scenario?

Lauren Maxwell 26:58

Yeah, it gets such adept to how we can relate to ourselves and heal and feel more at ease in our bodies, like a whole slew of steps before we might need to take medicine, when we might do that in combination, or in compliment to but there’s just so much more. And I think we can often just like feel a pain and release a very past way of being for me, I’d feel pain and be like, oh, gosh, what’s wrong with me? Maybe I need to go the doctor, or what do I need to take to make this better, but there’s, it’s about that listening, as one line of, you know, connection with the pain or with the experience?

Candice Wu 27:50

Absolutely. And I think when you are willing to listen and offer that kind of combination of dedication and compassion, to your own body, your own spirit, really miraculous things can happen. And I do think that there’s absolutely a time and a place for Western medicine. And at the same time, it is very healthy and wise to say, what else can I be doing?

Candice Wu 28:19

For example, with back care issues? Often in the Western medical world, the thought is, well wait and see what happens and or do we need pills and surgery? And so in my mind, if there’s something that can be done in terms of simple decompression for pain relief, or breath work, then why not explore it?

Lauren Maxwell 28:40

Yeah, especially when we can tune in and support ourselves with it. Just right then and there.

Candice Wu 28:48

Right. It’s always available.

Lauren Maxwell 28:51

Absolutely.

Candice Wu 28:52

So what kinds of miraculous or maybe even surprising things have you uncovered? For yourself, like about self? About yourself?

Lauren Maxwell 29:05

That’s a good question. You know, one interesting piece has been opening the creative channel more freely. And I do think that creative channel and spiritual channel are very closely intertwined. And this is something that I had sort of experienced over the past year, and then recently picked up the book, The Artist’s Way by Julia Cameron. And you know, it turns out, she’s been writing this exact same thing for 25 years, or something like that, maybe even longer. And so that’s so beautiful too, because it brings to mind that, you know, this is a universal truth and how cool that I kind of stumbled into it. But other people are experiencing it too.

Lauren Maxwell 29:49

And so the creative channel, a spiritual channel idea has been just like, yeah, there are so many ways to tap into the truth that is there within all of us. And sometimes it’s creative, you know, I like to do free writing in the morning, which in the artist’s way is referred to as morning pages. And it’s just kind of like, at least maybe three pages or so of unstructured, free-flowing writing. And I find that that’s where my ideas really shine through. Whereas, if I were to try to do this later in the day, after I’ve been tied into technology, and devices, and work, and expectations, and meetings, it’s a different experience. Writing is a very different feeling. So I love to be very intentional about that, not looking at a screen for a while until I’ve had that chance to touch in, do some writing. And then I find that that sets up my day differently.

Candice Wu 30:50

Yeah, just having that time to go inward and express freely before everything else happens in your day. Sounds really precious.

Lauren Maxwell 31:01

Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, there are some days where the right thing might be to take a walk in the morning or to have a yoga practice in the morning. I tend to be a little bit quieter and more reserved in the morning and save physical things through later in the day. You know.

Candice Wu 31:21

Yeah, I’m not a stereotypically morning person. So the writing works well.

Lauren Maxwell 31:25

That’s good.

Lauren Maxwell 31:26

But I think that taking time for in whatever way works for you to connect with self in the morning, before you engage with the rest of the world is a powerful tool. And finding your right balance with things, what really works for you if you’re a morning or not person.

Candice Wu 31:46

Right, right. And, you know, I think tapping into your own truth in that way, often can help you present the best of yourself to the world, when it’s time to do that. So, you know, whether it’s in partnership, or in a job, or whatever it might be.

Lauren Maxwell 32:04

Yeah.

Candice Wu 32:05

So I’m curious, where are you on your journey and what challenges or struggles do you face nowadays?

Lauren Maxwell 32:16

Yeah, well, you know, one thing that has been a theme in my life for the past few years, is the idea of place, and this has become a challenge, because I’ve been moving around a lot, and kind of working between three different cities. And also, without knowing exactly what city I might end up in next.

Lauren Maxwell 32:39

So dealing with some unknowns, dealing with some moving and so, you know, the practice through me there is how can I look at this as an opportunity and a gift, rather than just focusing on the challenges and the struggles. Because the challenge side of it is kind of felt like, while my foundations are kind of like experiencing some upheaval, it can be harder to feel grounded, and really tap into the work that I want to be doing, the writing I want to be doing and that kind of thing.

Lauren Maxwell 33:09

But you know, the gift of it is place can teach us so much. It was a trip to Utah in 2016, that astounding, you know, National Parks there, that really kind of started shifting my brain and ended up you know, changing my career changing my lifestyle. Because in Utah, I saw amazing colors and just expansive sky and clear night skies, incredible views of the moon and stars. And I came back from that trip feeling kind of depressed, like, well, I’m going back to working on a computer every day feels a little bit limiting.

Lauren Maxwell 33:49

And I then thought.

Candice Wu 33:51

Yeah.

Lauren Maxwell 33:53

Yeah. You know, and everyone talks about, you know, post-vacation blues. So that’s nothing you need to me, but I started thinking, well, how can I experience that sort of mental freedom? Almost creative freedom, spiritual freedom, just like my brain feels expansive? How can I feel that in my every day, why do I need to save that for vacation, you know? And baby steps there lead from one thing to another. So yeah, that theme of places just still coming back.

Lauren Maxwell 34:23

For example, right now I’m working with one city where I live for a few years. I feel very comfortable, very known, have very dear friends, a very kind of safe haven home that I’ve created. And then a newer city where I don’t know anyone, but it’s a creative and exciting place and the new city is Nashville.

Lauren Maxwell 34:44

And you know, it’s like, the gift of that is kind of being able to express the latest evolutions of yourself to people and being seen in that way without being seen for like, who you’ve been for the past seven years or whatever, you know, and both are beautiful, right? It’s like there’s the gift of being known and appreciated and having your evolution witnessed by others. Sometimes they don’t understand and sometimes they do, and that’s fine. But there’s also a gift and just being able to present yourself as who you’ve become.

Candice Wu 35:19

Yeah, it’s so present in the moment, who you are right now.

Lauren Maxwell 35:25

Right.

Candice Wu 35:25

And no one questions it or is puzzled by it. You know, they just accept what it is.

Lauren Maxwell 35:31

There’s nothing to compare it to pass you wise.

Candice Wu 35:32

Right.

Lauren Maxwell 35:39

Yeah.

Candice Wu 35:40

Oh, interesting. Yeah, I think I didn’t know that about you that you were moving around so much. I think we actually have a lot in common with that, as you said to me before we started recording here.

Lauren Maxwell 35:54

Yeah, it’s really interesting to go from place to place. And I think the interesting thing for me is feeling at home in myself, regardless of what’s around me. And moving around has been able to give me that opportunity to practice that, like that my home is my body.

Candice Wu 36:16

I love that. Yeah. And I love what you’re saying about the evolution. The evolution of you being presented in this one moment or what’s evolved in you. And I think traveling, moving around from place to place really can bring that forward, for me as well.

Lauren Maxwell 36:39

Absolutely. And you know, there’s a lot of inspiration and changing place, and our observation of our surroundings, you know. Again, if we’re willing to listen. And so, about being at home in your body, I’ve really felt that too and had to ask myself, yeah, what makes me feel grounded no matter which space I’m in? And how can I, you know, I deal with in my, like, astrological makeup and my dosha, a lot of fire and air in a little water. So it’s like, Earth is the piece that I need to always be remembering to include, you know what I mean, so that.

Candice Wu 37:18

Yeah.

Lauren Maxwell 37:19

Grounding practices, whether it’s breath work, or opening the pelvic floor, or even just working with, you know, I love things like black obsidian and hematite. These kinds of things that can help center us back into ourselves and draw energy back in and make us feel protected and centered.

Candice Wu 37:39

Hmm, beautiful. Yeah, I think that’s such an important question. Like, what can make you feel grounded? And what really makes you feel like you? And getting in touch with the truth of you is a lot of your practice is in mind, too.

Lauren Maxwell 37:54

Yeah.

Candice Wu 37:55

Definitely.

Lauren Maxwell 37:56

Absolutely.

Candice Wu 37:56

So you have this beautiful zine: “How to Uncover Self in Chaotic times”. Am I saying the title correctly?

Lauren Maxwell 37:57

Absolutely. Yes.

Candice Wu 38:06

Yeah. Yes. And I love to the part about, I’m just going to quote you here, in you’re talking about shifting from “We have to suffer to succeed to well-being and pleasure, reframing and rejecting the patriarchal capitalist society. So when we choose to operate from this different paradigm, we issue a way of life that was formed on the backs of slaves, and the incarceration and abuse and marginalization of entire groups of people.” I was just astounded by reading that because it just completely resonated. It’s like we’re completely shifting to that softness, to that connection, and listening, collaboration and respect. That shifts what I guess can bring something different. And well, let me just ask you, what does that mean for you? I’m curious, how you feel into that.

Lauren Maxwell 39:12

Yeah, I think there’s so much there and really appreciate you, you know, taking the time to read and share that. And for me, as a white cisgender woman, it’s been, you know, really important to think about my own participation, you know, in racist society, in patriarchal society.

Lauren Maxwell 39:37

And there are some thinkers who have influenced me in this regard. Layla Saad online is one of them. Rachel Cargo, and they talk, they’ve talked a lot about dismantling our participation in racism in, you know, the white patriarchy. And a lot of times, you know, I feel like, it’s not my place to speak on these things, but rather to listen and to really consider how I’m benefiting from the systems. And then, given my intrinsic privilege, what opportunities do I have to, if any, to shine a light on marginalized voices, to use my privilege in a way that can help to tear down systems that I don’t necessarily agree with.

Lauren Maxwell 40:26

And that has really led to a lot of thinking about how, you know, our actions, really, when we can tie our actions to our belief system and to our values. So in behaviors, start to meet our values, that’s when you know, we can begin to change our own life, our own way of being in the world, and that can start to have a ripple effect on those closest to us and our communities. And that just starts to go outward and expand. And, you know, we’re responsible, first and foremost, for our own actions.

Lauren Maxwell 41:02

And so that’s why it’s really important to think about, okay, are these systems benefiting me? And what can I do about it? And I think that place where actions meet values is where meaningful change starts to happen.

Candice Wu 41:14

Hmm, that’s beautiful. I really like the feel of that going inward. That taking care of self and revealing self, feeling into wholeness and well-being for oneself to create the backbone of that shift versus there’s absolute beauty and all sorts of social justice and activism that’s out there, and people supporting one another. There’s just so much there that’s really helping change things. And I think that having this as the primary backbone to each individual, and then stepping into the world with whatever else can be offered is just so essential.

Lauren Maxwell 42:04

Absolutely. And I think it also relates to, you know, each of us being called to do the work within ourselves. And this applies to activism and to healing work, like, it’s so easy to talk about, you know, the issues that we see in the world. But until we really pause and look at our own lives and our own, the way that we’re acting and behaving. Is it relating to our deepest values? Or is it relating to what we think society has, expects of us or requires for success, so-called success? Or is it just kind of been programmed into us? And we haven’t stopped to think about it. So how can we stop to think about those things, take personal responsibility for our actions, and then seek collaboration and community in that?

Lauren Maxwell 42:53

And that’s another thing that I’ve really been working on is, how can I, you know, feel that sense of community around these beliefs and this work?

Candice Wu 43:02

Yeah, it’s one thing to do to it on the inside, which I’m very good at, like, I can work with my own inner world and heal so much. And I think that has a very collective unconscious connection. But then it’s also very supportive to find that community that you’re speaking of.

Lauren Maxwell 43:27

Yeah, I think so too. And that’s part of the process of learning to feel safe with your own truth. And those things are, you know, first, you learn, okay, maybe how do I work with energetic boundaries? How do I work with boundaries in the day-to-day? Then you might make a little progress and you might begin to say, you know, am I surrounding myself with the people who support me in this truth and who support the things and feelings that I want to be experiencing each day and those values that I want to live by.

Candice Wu 44:06

I’m just thinking back to when we began this conversation, and you talked about your back holding, and protecting, and being a bit of armor around the heart, and holding so much. And it’s interesting to bring that back to this part of the conversation about protection and boundaries. Because it’s like, creating new kinds of boundaries and protection that are on the outside, but also support this ease and well-being in your body. Because it’s like a replacement for the armor, the tension of armor that constricts the body, but rather, opens now.

Lauren Maxwell 44:58

Absolutely, I love that. And it reminds me of another point that I recently saw in Emergent Strategy by Adrienne Maree Brown, and she talks a lot about how these collaborative behaviors are mirrored in nature and how powerful that is. And so it’s like the oak tree, you know, can withstand crazy flooding, when the house is next to it are being ripped off their foundations, because the oak tree has not driven down into this singular, individualistic root system. But instead, it’s reached out to all the oak trees around it and has sort of intertwined its roots. And they have found so much strength together in that community. And I think that’s true.

Lauren Maxwell 45:42

But again, it always begins with self. And all right, how can I give myself permission to be true, be soft, be who I am, you know, if there’s pain blocking it, how can I listen to the pain and move through it? And then maybe once you get comfortable with that truth, you can start to sense who, around you, fosters and cultivates that? You know what I mean?

Candice Wu 46:11

Absolutely. It can be so powerful to do that. I remember one of the times where I was just really feeling alone, in my own healing work and discovery of self and where I was growing into. And I realized I had this belief that I had to do it all by myself, and to open that up and realize that there are other people out there that would want to talk about this stuff, too. It was an incredible feeling. And then I started creating a women’s circle. We met every couple of weeks, and it was just so beautiful. So I can completely connect with what you’re saying.

Lauren Maxwell 46:52

That sounds wonderful. And my next question was going to be how did you find that feeling? And I love the idea of a women’s circle. And I think that, yeah, these people are out there, you know?

Candice Wu 47:04

Yeah, I think many people are craving that kind of connection, where it is a safe place and has some kind of boundary around it that supports that free connection and authenticity.

Lauren Maxwell 47:19

Absolutely. Yeah. And it’s almost like, liberating in a way to know that you’re stepping into a circle or class or something like that, where depth of thought, depth of conversation is encouraged. Whereas in your everyday exchange, sometimes it can feel like, okay, not quite sure who’s into that. I mean, sometimes, you know, automatically, but I can be nice to just step into a space and know, this is encouraged here, just sharing, evolving together, supporting one another.

Candice Wu 47:52

And being able to be vulnerable in that way. It’s so precious as well.

Lauren Maxwell 47:58

Absolutely. Yeah.

Candice Wu 48:00

So let’s switch gears, Lauren. Would you like to play little lightning round?

Lauren Maxwell 48:04

I would love to.

Candice Wu 48:06

Okay, I have some fun questions for you. Let’s see. Let’s start with this one. What curious dream have you had lately?

Lauren Maxwell 48:14

Oh, my goodness. I’ve had so many because I’ve been kind of trying to learn to work with dreams, you know. But let’s see this is perhaps, oh my gosh, yes. Okay, I just remembered too, so now I know which one I’m going to go with.

Lauren Maxwell 48:30

I dreamed that I was in space. And I was on a mission to go save someone, like, on another planet. And I was with two friends. And this was the incredible part, the door opened and I could see the moon, and another planet, and earth. It was so close to me. It was like, I could reach out and touch it. You know, there were none of the normal space issues were there. I had no trouble breathing and I didn’t float away. So we were just able to open the door, experience space, and it was incredibly like, mystical and alluring.

Candice Wu 49:06

Wow, I can hear the amount of excitement, inspiration, and its empowerment in your voice.

Lauren Maxwell 49:14

Yeah.

Candice Wu 49:14

Thinking about this dream.

Lauren Maxwell 49:16

Absolutely.

Candice Wu 49:16

Oh, that one sounds really fun to dive into and embody.

Lauren Maxwell 49:23

Yeah.

Candice Wu 49:25

Cool.

Lauren Maxwell 49:26

I don’t know if the second one is interesting to you or not. But you know.

Candice Wu 49:29

Do you want to share it?

Lauren Maxwell 49:30

Why not? I had a funny dream that Connie Britton was, I ran into her and she just like, automatically became this, I don’t know, sort of maternal figure. She was hugging me. She was putting these beautiful clothes on me, beautiful hat. And I’ve always appreciated Connie Britton. So I thought that was amusing.

Candice Wu 49:54

Sounds fun. It sounds really fun.

Lauren Maxwell 49:56

Right.

Candice Wu 49:56

Right.

Lauren Maxwell 49:57

It’s like maternal energy, like, okay, how are we working with that? You know, these kinds of things?

Candice Wu 50:03

Oh, wow, that sounds really fun. Oh, okay.

Candice Wu 50:08

What is one daily ritual that you have?

Lauren Maxwell 50:14

Well, I have a few and I don’t necessarily get to them every single day. And I think, you know, we’ve made it clear that my yoga practice is very important to me. And I mentioned walking in nature. That’s really important to me when the weather allows, moving my body, getting the brain and blood flowing. But another thing I’ve really been finding value in this year is tarot cards. And I’ve been studying on my own and often pull cards to explore questions that I have, or upcoming events or transitions. And I find a lot of value in the archetypes and the symbols. And see it, kind of, as a mirror into my own wisdom.

Candice Wu 50:55

Awesome. Okay, um, what do you have doubts about?

Lauren Maxwell 51:02

Doubts that pop up from time to time about my own, you know, worthiness, enoughness? So being accepted by certain groups just how I see myself, you know. If I see myself as a creative or an artist, or writer. Do other people see me that way? And then I always have to kind of circle back and remind myself, well, it doesn’t matter. And you know, part of this whole process, for many of us, is releasing the need for external validation and external indicators of success. That’s one of those things that cycles back for me and I have to continually remind myself of my own sovereignty, my own, again, sense of truth. And that is what it is, regardless of who recognizes it.

Candice Wu 51:49

I love that. Absolutely. Yeah, I resonate with that, too. And it’s an interesting thing to want to fit into a group, like that you identify with in some way. And if we’re truly ourselves, we wouldn’t exactly fit into the way that the group is.

Lauren Maxwell 52:07

Absolutely. In the way that it is, because we’re adding something uniquely ours.

Candice Wu 52:14

Yeah, yes, it’s so true. And oftentimes, I think that ties back into the idea of a label, and we don’t fit cleanly within these categories and these labels. And sometimes, rather than trying to kind of smush these various facets of ourselves into one, why not just let it be what it is, and it might not feel totally comfortable in terms of what that label has made you think, should feel comfortable, you know?

Lauren Maxwell 52:43

Absolutely.

Candice Wu 52:44

Okay. The last question is, what job would you be horrible at?

Lauren Maxwell 52:49

Oh, that’s a good question. I think I would be horrible as a flight attendant, because takeoff and landing, especially if there’s turbulence can be a time when I have to deal with my own anxiety. I don’t need to be dealing with, you know, hundred other people’s anxiety as well.

Candice Wu 53:12

You might scare a few people.

Lauren Maxwell 53:14

Yeah, exactly. I mean, you know, I love teaching breath work, but I’m not sure that’s the place.

Lauren Maxwell 53:24

Like it’s being in a plane, it brings so much air, right, as you said, you’re already like…

Candice Wu 53:31

So true.

Lauren Maxwell 53:31

…air quality Vata, right?

Candice Wu 53:33

Yes.

Lauren Maxwell 53:33

Adding so much more air quality, the quality and sense of air to the body. So you don’t need more than that, more than what’s on the ground sounds like.

Candice Wu 53:45

Yes, that is so true. I’ve never thought of it that way. But makes sense.

Lauren Maxwell 53:50

Of course, it does.

Candice Wu 53:52

Well, thank you so much, Lauren. I’ve learned so much about you and about the type of yoga that you do, as well as I just feel inspired by this conversation of pleasure and softness, and community.

Lauren Maxwell 54:09

Thank you so much.

Candice Wu 54:09

Is there anything else? Oh, you’re welcome. Is there anything else you want to share today?

Lauren Maxwell 54:15

I don’t think so. I just really appreciate being here with you and the space that you hold for these conversations. And so thank you for that. And thank you to all of your listeners.

Candice Wu 54:25

And I want to give you just a little space to invite you to share your offer for our audience for all the listeners today.

Lauren Maxwell 54:34

Yes, I am so excited about that. And would love to offer a handful of free half-hour consultations for anyone who might want to explore themes of uncovering self. For anyone who might be living and dealing with back pain. And then also a discount on the first private session booked. So if you reach out to me via my website, email me and mentioned the Embody Podcast. We can schedule that together.

Candice Wu 55:05

That sounds like a wonderful opportunity. And do you work? It sounds like you work online as well. In different places?

Lauren Maxwell 55:13

I do. Yeah. With back care, we can talk about practical things like sitting and sleeping and how you might be able to support your own spine. And I can also share yoga practice of course without the hands-on component through online meetings.

Candice Wu 55:32

Great. So where can people find you as well as your zine?

Lauren Maxwell 55:38

Thank you. Yeah, so find me at softopen.space online and then over on Instagram at Lauren_only and Lauren.yoga. I would love to chat with you there, feel free to send a message and email. Whatever feels right.

Candice Wu 55:57

Thank you so much, Lauren, you are a beautiful gift to the world. And I can just tell that whoever comes in contact with you through this work or just in life is going to be touched by the softness that you do bring and the compassion that you’re bringing. Thank you.

Lauren Maxwell 56:17

Thank you so much, Candice. That means a lot to me. And I appreciate the chance to be here with you and the way you make us all feel seen and valued.

Candice Wu 56:30

Thank you. Okay, until next time.

Lauren Maxwell 56:33

Okay, take care.

Candice Wu 56:36

So great to have Lauren on the show today, I already feel that soft open space and that softness infusing into my being. It’s something that I come to from time to time, that gentleness, put that word soft, is so just right for me right now, to see myself with softness, to soften into what I’m feeling right now to just let the guard down a little bit and let things be easy, even through the hardship, even through stuff that doesn’t feel so easy.

Candice Wu 57:12

I hope you enjoyed this episode. And if you resonated with Lauren, check out her website at softopen.space and maybe take advantage of that 30-minute consultation for free and the offering of a first full session with a discount after that.

Candice Wu 57:32

You can also check out her taster, which is going to be a Pranayama. A breathwork practice from yoga that can support you in feeling into your alignment and what’s here now for you.

Candice Wu 57:47

Thank you so much for joining us today. And I invite you to check out that dream class that I spoke about earlier at CandiceWu.com/dreamclass1. And if you want to continue to be notified of other classes or received the self-love notes that I have for you every other week as well as the podcasts that go out, you can join the Embody Community at CandiceWu.com/embody.

Candice Wu 58:13

Also, if you’re interested you can join the Facebook Embody community where there are 5 to 10-minute videos from wherever I am in the world, just offering some self love tip or a healing meditation or experience from family constellations, somatic experiencing, or another bodywork practice that can support you and feeling like yourself, and moving through the daily stuff, as well as the trauma or whatever else is cluttering up your feeling of being yourself. And that’s the Embody community on Facebook.

Candice Wu 58:46

Well, I want to leave you with one more thing today. And as many of you know that Mary Oliver died just a couple of weeks ago. And I’ve been sitting with this poem that she wrote for quite a bit of time now since she passed away. And it’s called I Did Think, let’s go about this slowly. It’s from her elegy to her partner. And here it is.

Candice Wu 59:05

“I did think. Let’s go about this slowly. This is important. This should take some really deep thought. We should take small, thoughtful steps. But bless us, we didn’t.”

Candice Wu 59:34

So hope you take that with you as you go today. And give yourself that sort of forgiveness and compassion when you don’t do things the way you intend or the way that you feel you want to. Thanks again for joining me and Lauren today, and I look forward to seeing you next week on the Embody Podcast.

Introduction

Hello, welcome back. This episode is with my special guest, Lauren Maxwell, who is a back pain for yoga specialist and a coach. Lauren has a full podcast conversation with me at CandiceWu.com/laurenmaxwell.

So, check that out to find more about Lauren, and this practice here is a guided practice that includes mudra, which is gestures with the hands, as well as a few poses and movement to guide to into a breathwork practice, which is Viloma I, the pranayama that is from the tradition of yoga.

I love how Lauren talks about feeling safe and centered here, and knowing that you’re breathing, being conscious of your breath, as well as the mudra that she’s using that as the gesture of inner secret, protection from limiting beliefs and releasing beliefs, as well as how she explores with you how to expand the inner landscape of the mind.

Expand the Inner Landscape of the Mind

So, grab a yoga mat or find a space where you can do a little bit of movement with your body, grab a blanket, because you’ll need that for the practice, and enjoy.

Begin with Lauren Maxwell

Hello, and welcome. My name is Lauren and I’m so glad to be here with you today and honored to share a breathwork practice for centering and protection.

In the classical yoga text, the yoga sutras from Sri Patanjali, we learned that the point of all yoga, all its many components, is simply to still the fluctuations of the mind. We all know that the world today, especially does not lend itself to quieting the mind, there’s a lot of noise and a lot of chaos, and pranayama or breathwork is a beautiful way to find tranquility.

Working with the breath is a subtle and powerful approach to soothing the nervous system and shifting reality of the body, whether it’s the physical body, the subtle organic body or the emotions because we breathe all day, every day.

It’s easy to forget what a magical way this can be, to explore a sense of feeling safe and protected, and centered and grounded. So, that’s what I hope you experience after breathing today.

In Yoga: A Gem for Women by Geeta Iyengar, she talks about this beautifully. She says, “Just as the moon is not reflected clearly in the turbid waters of a river, so, also the soul is not properly reflected in an oscillating mind. A clear mind alone reflects the soul. For self-realization, the fluctuations of the mind have to be removed.”

Breathwork is one way to work with mind and body to help find that quiet calmness. The breath is known to clear toxins released move stored emotion, balance the subtle body or the energetic body, even help change the body structure and to shift consciousness.

I’ve experienced all of these things to be really true and powerful in my own life, so, I’m super happy to be able to share them here today.

Also, in Yoga: A Gem for Women, Geeta Iyengar says that pranayama studies the pulse, makes the body supple and the complexion radiant. The sutras also say simply that pranayama brings up your mind. So, pranayama, I think, has a bit of a mystery and confusion surrounding it sometimes. So, I just wanted to give you a very clear introduction to what pranayama is.

“Prana” means air or breath or vital life force, which is a really nice and simple way to summarize that, and “Ayama” means expansion of length, breadth or volume. When we join those two words together, we understand that pranayama means directing or controlling the breath or put another way, directing life energy through conscious breathing. So, it’s kind of gathering the magical life force of the universe and then using it intentionally within the body to produce the desired result.

There are many different forms and styles of pranayama, the one that we’re going to be exploring today is called Viloma I. Some of the breathing practices within pranayama are quite advanced and really should be explored with the help of an experienced teacher, but the Viloma I is one that is quite accessible and powerful that we can explore here together, today.

Viloma means against the grain and Viloma I is interrupted inhalation. So, we’ll be working with interrupting the inhalation very intentionally, and I’m going to talk you through everything. Ideally, in pranayama practice, we would prepare the body and mind, and nervous system together to really optimize the experience.

So, we’re harnessing vital life force and we want to make the most of it, right? Well, hopefully someday we can explore that in person together and for today, we’re going to be doing a few things to lightly open the ribcage and activate the energetic channels of the body so that the prana can flow more freely.

I have provided some images over on my Instagram, which is lauren.yoga to support your practice today, you’re welcome to reference that or simply to move through it as it feels best to you. There’s a blanket setup that I do recommend using, if at all possible, you can use any blankets or towels that you have at home, as long as they’re folded as firmly and neatly as possible.

Folding the blankets carefully is important because it enables the body to release fully into the support without any distractions. The point of this blanket setup is to open the ribcage and open the chest and support the entirety of the torso and the spine so that you can access the breadth and the depth of the lungs without any strain.

This careful preparation allows the pranayama to bring its fullest benefits to the body, the mind, and the nervous system. When working with the breath, it’s important to avoid any signs of stress or strain. The work is very delicate and uplifting, and not meant to be anxiety-provoking. So, if at any point, you find yourself experiencing stress, simply return to normal breathing.

That might be exactly what your body is asking for, today. We work with breath retention for many reasons, and it’s nice to think of it almost as a percolator. So, when we retain the breath, we hold this beautiful life force energy of the universe inside of us for a moment to let it work its magic and percolate and then we release.

If you experience any anxiety when you try it, just take a nice exhalation instead and try retention another day. This practice is completely yours, so, please feel empowered to ease into it and care for your own needs in a way that invites tranquility and peace for the nervous system rather than excitement.

Now, I want to invite you to pause the recording and prepare your blanket setup if you haven’t done so yet.

Now that the blankets are ready, sit down on the blankets and cross the shins in the middle of each shin. The feet will rest underneath the knees and you’ll find yourself in sukhasana or easy pose. The hands can rest on the thighs and take a look and see if the knees are up above the hip socket. You want the knees to be in line with the hip socket or below. If they’re above the hip sockets, no worries, simply take the head blanket off of your setup or find another tower blanket nearby. Fold it and place it underneath your hips. You want to add enough height so that the knees are in line with the hip socket or below.

The point of this is so that we can work with a long neutral spine. If the knees are above the hip socket, the lower spine is rounding. We already round our spine a lot in everyday life with technology or slouching while using our devices or sitting at a desk or in the car. So, we are choosing to work with along the spine here partly because it does open the energetic channels so that prana will flow more freely in our breathwork practice.

Now, that you found your seat, close the eyes, soften the skin of the eyes and soften the skin of the face. Begin to watch the breath. Be a witness to your own inhalation and exhalation. You may find that it begins to soften or deepen or expand. We’re going to work with a mudra today. A mudra is a gesture or a seal. Mudra translates to bringing forth enchantment or pleasure, which is a beautiful thing to work with.

The hands and fingers contained so much energetic content, that measure can be a powerful way to call forth certain things into our life or into our body or into our mind. Today, we’re going to work with Gupta Mudra, the gesture of the inner secret. Gupta Mudra provides protection from our limiting beliefs. It’s helpful for exploring and releasing limiting beliefs that keep us from experiencing the safety of our true inner being. It reduces stress and supports the function of the immune system. It helps to relax the shoulders, neck, face, and head, which can be helpful for neck pain and TMJ. Most of all, Gupta Mudra enhances a sense of centering and safety which is what I hope that might offer you today.

To begin, interlace the fingers loosely with the fingers pointing towards the chest. Interlace them so that the right thumb is on top. I recommend doing the interlacing towards the middle knuckle or slightly above depending on the size and shape of your hands and fingers. Now, bring the base of the hands gently together and if the hands or fingers feel too restricted or tight here, simply take the base of the hands apart and bring the interfacing of the fingers closer to the fingertips. Then bring the base of the hands together. Cross the right thumb over the left thumb, and bring the hands gently down in front of the abdomen.

Close the eyes now. Return to watching the breath. Now, soften the shoulders. Soften the neck. Soften the elbows away from the sides of the torso so that you find some buoyancy in the side chest and in the armpits. Allow the mudra, the gesture to be wide and soft. Sense the earth underneath both sit bones. From the support of the earth, reach up through the crown of the head lengthening the spine. Soften the shoulder blades back and down onto the back, nestling them towards the back of the ribcage. Keep the buoyancy in the sides of the chest as you widen the very edges of the shoulders. Now, maintain that width as you soften the neck, soften the eyes and soften the skin of the face.

Gupta Mudra, as limiting beliefs are released, I rest in the sanctuary of my true inner being. Breathing in, I know that I am breathing in. Breathing out. I know that I am breathing out. Breathing in, I know that I am breathing in. Breathing out. I know that I am breathing out

If you’d like, repeat these phrases with me internally as you continue to breathe softly and expansively.

Breathing in: I know that I am centered. Breathing out: I know that I am safe. Breathing in: I know that I am centered. Breathing out: I know that I am safe. Release the measure and open the eyes. Now we’re going to do a bit of movement to open the channels of the body and prepare for an optimized breathing practice. Stand and take tadasana, mountain pose. To tadasana, parallel the feet and stand with the feet at hips with the parts so that the outer ankles are underneath the outer hips.

Stand tall reach through the crown of the head. Widen the collarbones, widen the sternum. Soften the grip on the diaphragm. Soften the corners of the eyes and the corners of the mouth, and continue to breathe. Now, take both arms and reach overhead, Urdhva Hastasana with the reach of the arms we lengthen the spine and open the side of the body. We lift the sides of the chest which helps prepare us to access the lungs and pranayama. If you notice that as you’re lifting the arms, your ribcage is kind of shutting out in the front or popping out so that you can put the biceps next to your ears. Simply move the arms a little bit wider and forward in front of the ears. If the ribcage is popping forward, don’t grip it back into place. Simply soften it towards neutral so the spine can be in a soft, neutral position.

Working with a neutral spine, again is meant to prepare through pranayama, allow the nervous system to be quiet. If the rib cage is popping forward, then the kidney band is being pressed inward and that’s right where the adrenals are and can be very exciting for the nervous system. So, return to the reach of the hands even if they’re slightly in front of the body, and use that reach as you inhale to lengthen the spine upwards.

Sense the earth underneath the soles of the feet, and from there, lengthen up through the crown of the head and then through the fingertips. Take your left wrist in your right hand and pull the left wrist over towards the right and a side bent. Keep the feet sensing the earth underneath them, and open the left side of the rib cage, in a side bent. Continue to breathe. Breathe into the left side body and as you inhale, find spaciousness, as you exhale, side bend a little further.

Now, return to reaching the arms up, lengthen the spine and then take the right wrist in the left hand and pull the right wrist over towards the left, opening the right side of the body. From the planted feet, inhale spaciousness into the right side of the ribcage.

Exhale, side bend more towards the left. Inhale, find spaciousness and expand. Exhale, side bend more towards the left. Bind expansiveness and side bend towards the left. Now reach the hands up towards the sky once more, keeping the spine neutral and the ribcage and the kidney band quiet.

Now, if you’re in a place that allows it I would love for you to take an Adho Mukha Shvanasana downward facing dog. This pose is invigorating and is a great way to prepare the body for the rest of pranayama.

As you take downward-facing dog, focus on keeping a neutral spine as much as possible. This might mean bending the knees to take the hamstrings out of the equation. So, while you’re on the floor, use the strength of the arms and the shoulders to press the hips away from the hands. Press press press, bending the knees if you need to, and the focus is pressing the hips up and away rather than pressing the heels towards the floor. So, focus on the lift and pushing the hips as far away from the hands as possible. Soften the base of the skull here, soften and lengthen the diaphragm and push the hips away. If you’re ready to try straightening the legs here, lift the skin of the size up and back as you press the hips away from the hands. Continue to breathe. Smooth out the breath as much as possible, especially as the work becomes sensational.

After you’ve taken 10 breaths and Adho Mukha Shvanasana, place the knees on the floor and come up. Next, you’ll take a seat on the blankets and move into baddha konasana or cobblers pose. Bring the soles of the feet together and let the knees go wide. Place the hands on the lower shin directly above the ankles and use the grip of the hands to pull the chest through the upper arms. Lengthen through the crown of the head and keep the spine long and neutral even here. Soften the breath, soften the diaphragm and as the needs move away from one another, you may find that the torso can go forward.

For our purposes, we’re going to keep the spine long. So, if the spine begins to round and flex forward so that you can reach the floor, simply lengthen it again even if it means not going down as far as you’re used to. Lengthen through the crown of the head and then turn at the pelvis over the thighs and the spine simply moves along with the pelvis. Take 10 breaths here. Breathing in: I know that I am centered. Breathing out: I know that I am safe. Breathing in: I know that I am breathing in. Breathing out: I know that I am breathing out.

Next, you’re going to take a spinal twist and then move into our breathing practice. Sit on the narrow edge of the blankets and place both feet towards the left side of the body and place only the right sit bone on the corner of the blanket, both knees are facing forward and with both feet to the left side, cross the left foot over the arch of the right foot and sit tall. This is Bharadvaja’s, a seated twist, and all you’ll do is lengthen up through the crown of the head finding a neutral spine again, and then turn towards the right. The left hand will rest palm facing outwards with the back of the hand against the right thigh. From there, you’ll inhale, lengthen up and exhale, twist towards the right.

Place the right hand behind you as you twist with the elbow out and the armpit again buoyant, the fingertips can be delicately cut on the floor. Inhale, lengthen. Exhale, twist.

Now, come out of the twist and prepare to go to the other side. To twist towards the left, you will put the feet on the right side of the blanket. Put the left sit bone on the edge corner of the blanket, and with both knees facing forward, the right foot can rest gently on top of the left arch. Inhale, lengthen through the crown of the head. Exhale, twist towards the left. Place the outside of the right hand on the left thigh and widen the chest, soften the diaphragm. Inhale, lengthen, and exhale, twist. The left hand is cupped delicately behind you on the blanket if possible, or wherever feels most comfortable and you’ll use the buoyancy of your elbow and the side of your left chest to invite the spine to turn further and continue to breathe.

Now, we’re going to move into our pranayama practice for Viloma I. So, to begin, you will recline on the blankets with the pelvis on the floor. Go ahead and position yourself so that you’re sitting in front of the narrow edge of the blankets. Once you’re there, you will lie back. This is called Shavasana, and once you lie back on the blankets, place the leg straight out in front of you with the feet together and the feet lightly flexed. Now, pick up the head in your hands and glance down to put yourself in an aligned position. So, look at your feet and make sure that the heels, the pubic bone, the sternum, and the chin are all in one straight line.

Lift the pelvis very slightly and lengthen the tailbone away from the lower back. Adjust yourself if you need to, and once you found that line, gently place the head back on the blanket. As you do so, delicately stretched the back of the neck so the base of the skull moves is away from the top of the shoulders. This lengthens the vagus nerve, which is associated with the parasympathetic nervous system and enables the body to rest and restore.

Before you release the feet, place the arms beside you on the floor with the palms facing up. Gently press the forearms down into the floor to nestle the shoulder blades back onto the back. So, as you press, you lift the chest ever so slightly and invite the shoulder blades to go back where they belong, and then release the arms into the floor, soften the chest, and allow the feet to fall outwards from the midline into a soft and open position.

If for any reason you feel uncomfortable here, adjust your setup find comfort, add length, add height. If your chin feels like it’s up above your forehead and you can actually touch both to check, add another blanket or towel underneath your head so that the forehead is slightly above the chin. Once you found a comfortable reclined position, close the eyes and rest, we’re going to move into a breathing practice. So, here just begin to watch the breath, allow it to soften again.

You’ve prepared the body, you’ve invited the nervous system to consider a different way of being. You’ve let the body know we’re going do something here today. We’re going to explore safety, protection, and release.

To prepare, take a full and soft inhalation, and exhale completely. Inhale fully and pause. Exhale completely, pause. Inhale delicately, pause. Exhale fully, pause.

Now, return to unconditioned breathing. Hear the breath is soft. The breath is breathing you. As a reminder, if at any point during this breathwork you feel anxiety or stress, simply return to this place of soft normal breathing.

To prepare, take a full and soft inhalation and exhale delicately. Inhale completely. Pause. Exhale fully and softly. Pause. Inhale softly. Pause. Exhale completely.

And now, returned to unconditioned breathing. Soften the skin of the eyelids from the center of each eye to the corner. As you breathe, keep the eyes soft, the forehead soft and the jaw soft.

I’m going to talk you through a few rounds of Viloma I interrupted inhalation. To prepare, take a full and soft inhalation, pause at the top.

Exhale delicately and fully. Into the back bottom ribs, inhale one third. Pause. Into the sides of the chest, Inhale one third. Pause. Into the top chest, inhale one third. Pause. Take a tiny sip of air in, and exhale completely and gently.

Take a few rounds of unconditioned breathing, as limiting beliefs I released, I rest in the sanctuary of my true inner being.

For another round, take a full and soft inhalation and pause. Exhale gently into the back bottom ribs. Inhale one third. Pause. Sides of the chest, one third. Into the top chest, one third. Pause. Take a tiny sip of air in, and exhale fully and delicately.

Take a few rounds of I’m conditioned breathing. Breathing in: I know that I am breathing in. Breathing out: I know that I am breathing out. Breathing in: I know that I am breathing in. Breathing out: I know that I am breathing out.

Now, take a full and soft inhalation for Viloma I. Pause. Exhale completely. Into the back bottom ribs, Inhale one third. Pause. The size of the chest, one third. Pause. Into the upper top chest. Inhale one third. Pause. Take a little sip of air in, and exhale delicately.

Now, return to unconditioned breathing.

Breathing in: I know that I am centered. Breathing out: I know that I am safe. Breathing in: I know that I am centered. Breathing out: I know that I am safe.

For another round, inhale completely and gently. Pause. Exhale delicately. Into the back bottom ribs. Inhale one third. Pause. Into the sides of the chest one third. Pause. Into the top chest one third. Pause. Take a tiny sip of air in, and exhale softly.

Return to unconditioned breathing. With each breath, expand the inner landscape of the mind.

I’m going to leave you here and invite you to accept the support of the earth beneath you. Relish the feeling of centering and protection and enter softly back into your day whenever you’re ready.

Thank you so much for being here today. Before I leave, I want to take a moment to thank my teachers, Allison West and Caitlin Hippo, who have both influenced my approach to breathwork and also to Geeta S. Iyengar for her book Yoga: A Gym for Women, Anodea Judith four Wheels of Life, and Thich Nhat Hanh for his meditations. All of those people influenced this practice and I’m grateful for their work.

Thanks so much and have a beautiful day.

Candice Wu 0:00

In this episode, I have a special guest, Andrew Shykofsky, and we talk about his experience and teachings as a Christian mystic, his path towards spirituality which included an initial negative impression of Christianity, the grand spiritual buffet that he has tried in his life, the desire for love and truth, the challenges with being human and a priest, how to manifest and create your reality with respect towards the global reality, and what is God, Christ consciousness, and consciousness itself.

Candice Wu 0:17

Hello, and welcome. You’re listening to the Embody Podcast, a show about remembering and embodying your true nature, inner wisdom, Embodied Healing, and self-love.

Candice Wu 0:24

My name is Candice Wu, and I’m a holistic healing facilitator, intuitive coach, and artist sharing my personal journey of vulnerability, offering meditations and guided healing support, and having co-creative conversations with healers and wellness practitioners from all over the world.

Candice Wu 0:36

A quick shout out to any of my clients listening and all of my clients out there. I love working with all of you. I facilitate holistic healing spirituality and a deeper knowing of the self. I offer experiential tools that support body wisdom for completing trauma and negative beliefs, spiritual crisis, self-love, and understanding the self while feeling deeply at ease and at home in the simplicity of being human, being yourself.

Candice Wu 0:52

It’s a little bit different than having a talk therapy session, because it engages the whole body, the energy, past life, also ancestry if those are interesting for you. So for people that want to feel more, not less, and experienced the depths and truth of themselves or if you want to shift beliefs, and what’s held in your body, anything that keeps you stuck or feeling negatively about yourself, shifting that towards joy and aliveness and greater freedom.

Candice Wu 1:08

Sometimes the journey of healing and wholeness can start with attention or disease or illness in the body, a pain, or it can start with a feeling that there’s something deeper that you desire in your life, something that you want for yourself, or that you truly want to love yourself and trust your intuition and body.

Candice Wu 1:21

My work is one on one, as well as with couples, and with those in relationships that are polyamorous or open. I also hold retreats that are on location as well as a monthly group healing call that is all embodied work as well. If you’re interested, intrigued or you have questions or somewhere you feel called to it, feel free to reach out to me to set up a 20-minute free consultation. There’s absolutely no pressure to continue on. It’s a time for us to explore what you desire, what your next steps are and I love supporting people in getting clear with that, seeing if it’s a right fit to work together or passing along any referrals that will really support them in the next step of their journey. You can find out more about me and set up a consultation at Candicewu.com.

Candice Wu 3:11

Hello, and welcome back, everyone. It’s great to have you here. Right now, I am in Ireland and I’ve been working with horses here. I’ll talk more about that next week in the podcast.

Candice Wu 3:23

And today I want to just jump right into connecting with Andrew.

Candice Wu 3:27

Andrew Shykofsky is a friend and a colleague. He had a center in Chicago called Meditate Yoga and Meditation Center. And they taught Yoga there for a couple of years and since then, we’ve been friends. Like me, Andrew has traveled a bit since he released his ties with the studio and branched out and now he’s in Charleston.

Candice Wu 3:58

Andrew is a priest and teacher of Christian Mysticism and he began his mystical path in 2004 while living in San Francisco. One thing I’ve really appreciated about Andrew is his ability to connect with people in such a genuine, grounded, real, and authentic way that really has opened up so much connection and ability to talk about real things in life that are going on without sugarcoating them or pretending things are just fine. So I’m excited to bring you this conversation today, and without further ado, here is Andrew.

Candice Wu 4:37

I’m quite curious about how our conversation is going to go today Andrew. I’m just delighted to welcome you.

Candice Wu 4:46

Yeah, you are a priest, a teacher and I’ve really enjoyed some of what you offer to the community. I met you in Chicago and you had Meditate Yoga and Meditation Center. And when I came to your visualization class, I felt like yeah, this is powerful and I remember you saying: “You know, when you do this, it’s quite powerful and all the resistance comes up and you get to work through that.”

Candice Wu 5:24

So I think from the very beginning, I enjoyed what you brought. I would love for you to share with all the people listening today who you are and your journey in getting to where you are today.

Andrew Shykofsky 5:37

Okay, yeah, sounds great. Of course, you know, thanks for thinking of me and inviting me for today’s chat.

Andrew Shykofsky 5:44

I have been really driven towards knowing true spiritual truth. Later on, it became a quest for love. Initially, I would say I was interested in spiritual experiences, that were, you know, really about the truth, because I had a feeling even when I was back in high school, like, I don’t think this is how the world supposed to be. I don’t feel like we’re being true. And in some cases, I didn’t feel like we’re being honest, you know, it’s like, is that people seem to have other agendas here that they’re not owning.

Andrew Shykofsky 6:14

And yeah, way back, even in high school that was really angering to me and so I think that has fueled a lot of my quest. It’s like, I want to know what’s actually going on. And through that journey, in my, probably 20s, mostly, you know, I was distracted because I wanted to be a musician, or I was a musician, and playing in bands and I was never a huge partier. But you know, I was a typical 20-year-old guy.

Andrew Shykofsky 6:38

And, but as I started to get older, this quest for truth, and eventually for like, some true love connection really became very prominent, my consciousness. And in 2004, the leading up to all that I did all sorts of unspiritual things, I mean, practice out of body experiences and lucid dreaming, and I would, I was meditating throughout all that. I would do long term fasts, trying to induce other states of consciousness so I could penetrate into the spiritual world. And I would, you know, pursue the I Ching for a while so we throw the coins and get all the wisdom.

Andrew Shykofsky 7:18

And, you know, there are so many different kinds of spiritual, I used to call this the grand spiritual buffet. Well, let me try this and let me try that, let me get crystals and work with crystals. Let me try, you know, I don’t know, I can’t remember all this stuff now. But the good thing was that meditation was always central, because pretty much all the spiritual teachers would say, meditation is the foundation for having these deeper experiences.

Andrew Shykofsky 7:44

And then in 2004, I had made a strong intent, I wouldn’t quite call it a prayer. Now, as you said, I’m a priest so my language has changed differently. My language has changed such that now I would have to say, I made a strong prayer. Because I was almost 40 years old, and I had wandered around the planet to a certain degree, and I hadn’t found people who had the same drive that I did. And so I was kind of lonely, in my quest for truth, and I thought, well, maybe I need to find a wife and just kind of live a more traditional life. And I think that the prayer that God end up hearing was you want love, you’ve always wanted love.

Andrew Shykofsky 8:21

So, I found myself in this Christian mystical school, or what they call a mystery school was operating in Oakland, California, and very Christian, but what they were teaching was stuff I had read about, I’d never met people who were not only teaching it but living it. So I became very enamored with that. I was very resistant to the Christian part, I’d never really wanted to be Christian. I had negative impressions of Christianity. But I couldn’t deny that the teachings and the energy of the place and the people were like, I just felt like, these are my peeps, I just feel good with them. We’re not weird. They were not proselytizing, they were not, you know, the language they use was kind of like when you and I talked. And so it was very kind of troubling in a way because part of me, you know, want it to be that, what I’d always been was this distant observe, I go to the spiritual things, I take it in. I wouldn’t really interact a lot that I go home and try to apply it. I lived in a very isolated way. This group really kind of broke through that.

Andrew Shykofsky 9:26

And so I decided to after a few months of going several times a week to classes and services, I decided to go, okay, well, what’s next. And I kind of never stopped saying that, what’s next?

Andrew Shykofsky 9:38

So here we are, we’re 14 and a half years later, in 2006, I was ordained a deacon, which was the first level of a minister, the second ordination was, let’s see, it was in May in 2013. So nine years after I had first met them, I was ordained a priest. And then, subsequently, five years later, which is this June, I was ordained a master teacher.

Andrew Shykofsky 10:03

I mean, we could spend a lot of time talking about what those ordinations are, but from my perspective, you know, an ordination into priesthood is a life-altering experience. It’s not about theology, and, you know, passing the academia of all those schools where you go, with other seminaries, it’s not really like that. Yeah, it’s a whole shift in consciousness. It’s, I mean, in the lineage of the mystic, you’re only ordained a priest after you’ve been tested in your true desire to love humans, love God, love yourself, and be consistent in that. And that was probably the hardest, “project” that I ever took on.

Candice Wu 10:44

Wow, this is incredibly fascinating to hear Andrew, I had no idea you’d move through the grand spiritual buffet as you said, like, to hear you talk about crystals, and out of body experiences and the I Ching, lucid dreaming. I just had no clue. It gives a lot of dimensionality to what I already know about you and it’s so interesting that you also felt from the beginning, some sort of resistance about Christianity, and I’m curious about that. What was it about? What was your impression of Christianity and what did you find here at this mystic school?

Andrew Shykofsky 11:26

Yeah. Well, I think like most, you know, I don’t know if I would call myself intellectual, I tended to do well in school and I was, you know, probably I’m more on the bookend of things. Christianity just seems, or at least the Christians that I met, there was a weird thing about them, you know, like, they would say things like, well, have you taken Jesus as your Lord and Savior? And I’m like, I don’t really know what that means. Well, you have to take Him as your Lord and Savior to be saved. Like, say, from what? Well, saved from your sins.

Candice Wu 11:54

Right.

Andrew Shykofsky 11:54

I mean, if you’re not saved from your sins, and you die in your sins, you’re going to burn in hell forever. I’m like, I’m going to need more than that.

Candice Wu 12:00

Right. That doesn’t quite register.

Andrew Shykofsky 12:03

Well, it was just, it felt fearful. It felt kind of panicky and also, the worst thing was, I didn’t feel people listen to me, you know, they were just a lot of these folks were so consumed with their message, that they didn’t stop and go, who are you? And where are you at? And what have you done in your journey? You know, when I found the mystical Christian school, they were more focused on, okay, so you know, what’s up with you? Where have you been? What have you done? What do you think? And that, to me, was the essence of the love that I was missing, you know, somebody actually caring enough about me to go, what’s your journey been like? And then just listened to it and not go, Okay, well, that’s all wrong here’s what you got to do, take Jesus as your Lord and Savior. Like, it was nothing like that.

Andrew Shykofsky 12:49

So finally, I was able to go, well, these people actually care and the other Christian folks, and not that they didn’t care but I mean, you, I’m sure, well, I want to ask you, if you experience this, I mean, a high degree of conversations that I have, involve me listening to people, and they’re very caught up in, you know, I’m not saying that in a negative way, though, it might sound that way. But people are, I find people very consumed with that, you know, the rhetoric in their minds about themselves and about their lives and about their situations. And so, I’m kind of, you know, for a long time, I was like, angry about that, it’s like, I’ll sit there and listen to somebody for 30 minutes, almost without saying anything. And there was part of me was like, okay, I think it would make sense, if you now would, you know, ask me maybe one thing, to sort of, you know, flip it around a little, even if it said, the last three minutes before we hang up. And I was really angry about that, you know, it’s like, what’s with people? Why don’t they care? Why don’t they listen?

Andrew Shykofsky 13:50

Can you relate to what I’m saying with that Candice? Because you’re a very good listener, and I have always felt that about you. But I wonder if you’ve had that same thing.

Candice Wu 13:58

You know, actually, I have. I’ve been trained, as you know, in clinical psychology, but way before that, I was quite a good listener. And I think a lot of that listening skill came from my desire to please people and to accommodate others, and growing up sort of as this wounded healer, in myself.

Candice Wu 14:23

And so, coming to the point of practicing in a more professional way, as a therapist, and also before that, as a teacher, I did find that quite a bit that it would drain me to just hear people being absorbed in their lives. And I am that way, sometimes. But the thing that I found for myself is that, and this is why I practice the way I do now, is that the experiencing through what’s going on, and what they’re talking about, and having a process around what they’re going through, like having a process through the emotions of what they’re experiencing, and the belief sets that actually transform something.

Candice Wu 15:09

And so if someone wants me to sit for 30 minutes, and only listen, it is challenging for me, because I’m interested in supporting them in transforming something internally and externally. So I do relate to that a lot, where it can be challenging to sit and listen, even though I do want to hear from someone and where they’re at in their journey. But there has to be, at least the best fit for me is that there’s a desire from that person to have a deeper awareness or create something else with that conversation.

Andrew Shykofsky 15:48

Yeah, I mean, I totally get it. And I mean, things have changed for me, because I, you know, I’m sort of midway through the point, which was, that used to really irritate me and anger me. And you know, it’s interesting what you refer to yourself, I don’t, I think you were referring to yourself as a wounded healer, who wanted to please people. And, I mean, I had my own version of that. I actually didn’t really have, I don’t think I am that much of a people pleaser. I mean, I do want to be useful and being a priest, it’s a commitment to be in service to humanity, to God. But I’ve worked with many people who have what I would call that more that people pleaser kind of thing so I think I understand it a little bit better, not quite as good as if I had it myself.

Andrew Shykofsky 16:31

You know, the thing that kind of motivated me as I do find it incredibly interesting hearing people’s stories just like, I sit there with my mouth sort of half-open going like, wow, that’s stuff that other people go like, it’s not that interesting. I’m like, no, that’s super fascinating and I long for somebody to be that fascinated with my life, too. I thought that’s what people were. Aren’t you, like, dying to know about me?

Candice Wu 16:53

Yeah.

Andrew Shykofsky 16:55

But no, it turns out that most people aren’t and I’m a little exaggerating with that, you know, the great joke is well, enough about me, what do you think about me?

Candice Wu 17:06

Right.

Andrew Shykofsky 17:10

Since I’ve become a priest, and I don’t know, you know, it’s a difficult thing to talk about some of these shifts, because the last thing any of us, when I say us, like people who are on this journey of consciousness ever want to do is to promote ourselves, as you know, further ahead than other people. I mean, that’s an uncomfortable place for me. But I have to sort of also be true to myself and as a result of the 14 years, 14 and a half years that I’ve been on this Christian mystical path, my awareness, and consciousness of love, life, God, people, it has changed dramatically and some of the beautiful aspects of that is, I’m no longer angry the way I was, you know, about the fact that I can sit in conversations and people have very little interest in, you know, what I’m doing and stuff. I wouldn’t say that it doesn’t create some kind of response. I mean, it can be sad to me to sit and talk and be really interested in somebody and then, you know, recognize that they’re on to the next thing, and it never even crossed their mind to go, Oh, well, I’ve been talking for 20 minutes, 30 minutes, what’s going on with you?

Andrew Shykofsky 18:14

I mean, I think that has something to do with the state of consciousness on the planet and so my task has been to reach a place of acceptance with that and not, you know, seek to alter it through him because, as an Aries, I can be a little blunt, and sometimes a little direct in ways that, you know, jar people and I’ve had to learn at a temper that form of communication.

Candice Wu 18:37

I can relate to that, too.

Andrew Shykofsky 18:39

Yeah, I mean, that’s probably why you and I chat so easily. Because I don’t feel like I have to be that conscious because you’re an Aries, too, right?

Candice Wu 18:45

Yeah, exactly.

Candice Wu 18:47

I remember right in the beginning meeting you, you just right away, ask about where I’m at in my journey. And that just felt so real and comfortable, and uncomfortable in some ways, you know, I’m getting vulnerable in sharing and at that time, I barely knew you. But the way that you asked so directly was helpful.

Andrew Shykofsky 19:10

Well, I appreciate that feedback. I don’t, I can’t say I remember the exact conversation, maybe what you know, I remember meeting you and just having this sense of a kind of ease about it. You know, just remember you sitting in the class that you came to, and just sort of energy and enthusiasm and like you were present and you were into it, which when I sit at the front of the class, and I teach it’s very evident people that are not into it. And it’s, I mean, I definitely have feelings about that. I try to, I’m sure you can relate when you’re teaching people and some are totally into and others are, like, have fallen asleep, or they look like they’re just distracted. It’s kind of you know, I have an emotional response to it.

Andrew Shykofsky 19:46

I remember that. But you know, the thing is, this is probably a filter that I don’t necessarily have all that developed, which is I think we want that vulnerable connection as quickly as possible. So I’m just like, assuming, Hey, what’s going on with you? Like, tell me everything. I’m happy to share what’s going on with me also. But that’s not, I don’t think that’s realistic. I’ve sort of had to adjust to the fact that might be a little disconcerting for people.

Candice Wu 20:13

Yeah. And I think that relates to, as you referenced earlier, the consciousness of the world right now. And when you speak about consciousness, what do you mean?

Andrew Shykofsky 20:26

Well, I think it’s, I mean, for myself, I’m interested in knowing truth at the highest level that I’m capable. And so on one level, probably the easiest way that people probably can relate to is the energy of one’s intent. You know, I think that in, I mean, I live in the south now, right? I live in Charleston, South Carolina. So there’s an element the way that people relate in the south and you’ll often hear about this reference to the hospitality of the south or the politeness or something. And there’s an element to it, which I think there’s a nice element to it, because there is an element about it that’s about caring. But there’s another element to it that’s not authentic, it’s not actually how the person is. It’s a kind of a veneer of how we’re supposed to be, that is a little too much for me. And it’s uncomfortable, because I feel it is inauthentic. Because I feel like the way that somebody is acting, the level of politeness or the level of I don’t know, the way that people are phrasing things. It’s because it feels inauthentic. It makes me uncomfortable.

Andrew Shykofsky 21:33

I’m conscious of that, whereas certain people just oh, you know, that’s just how we are or people have kind of, I don’t know, like part of their identity is wrapped up in being away that’s not authentic to themselves and there’s no real reason to question it.

Andrew Shykofsky 21:48

I find people so fascinating when they’re their most authentic. Now, okay, we all have some rough edges, right. So, in this understanding of consciousness, to experience a person with their, you know, they’re beautiful, their virtues of love, their divine soul self, that’s freakin’ cool. That’s where I have my mouth hangs open, like, Wow, that’s so cool you think that way. Like, you see things that way, like, I had never thought to see it that way or perceive it that way. Okay, that part is like, super cool.

Andrew Shykofsky 22:19

And then there’s the other side, which is the parts of us that are wounded or angry, or we have bad habits, or we’ve developed a connection to trues that are not actually true. And I think as your consciousness opens, or, let’s see, approaches this, what they call Christ consciousness, Christ consciousness meaning the direct perception of reality as it is, you know, without any embellishments of my own emotional interpretation, and I do believe that exists, a lot of people will say, well, no reality is always going to be relative. But I find comfort in knowing that there is God’s truth, there is an absolute truth, and it’s love and understanding what that is, you know, it takes a lot of meditation and a lot of trial and error and a lot of teaching. But I’m interested in living in that bubble all the time.

Andrew Shykofsky 23:11

And so when I sense that people are living in ways that are protective, because they’re nervous, so that’s outside of that bubble of love, you know, it’s driven by fear, also, when people are truly in the love vibe, you know, we’re going to speak truth, and learning how to speak truth in a way that’s not, you know, upsetting to people, that’s a whole skill as well. I mean, you can’t, somebody says something, you can’t just go like, well, that’s not true, what you just said is a fabrication, that’s very jarring to people and you wouldn’t want to approach it that way.

Andrew Shykofsky 23:44

This has been a huge challenge for me, as we talked about, like Aries and having the desire to connect or communicate directly, is that there’s a certain tactfulness that I’ve had to learn from people who are better at it. I don’t know, the risk of going on and on. I mean, let me ask you this. So you must experience, what you experience consciousness as well, let’s see, how I want to phrase it, do you recognize, you know, the discrepancy between the intent of people and what they’re actually saying and doing?

Candice Wu 24:17

I do. This is one of the biggest things that I’m learning to sharpen in myself right now, is to feel into what the sense of something is behind the actions or words that someone’s saying, or how they’re being on the surface level, but to feel into the intent behind it, to help me make my own decisions in life or just a sense where someone’s at. And I’ve often found myself confused by the literal things that are happening on the surface level, on the physical level and that led me to feeling that interest in what’s going on behind it.

Candice Wu 25:05

And it is that one of the main parts of my work with people is, who are you behind this, and where are you coming from? And what state of being are you coming from, and where do you want to?

Candice Wu 25:19

So everything you’re saying feels so resonant to me. And you described Christ consciousness as a direct perception of reality as it is and I’ve never heard it described that way. Can you elaborate on the Christ consciousness in general? I’ll just start off with my first feeling of it.

Candice Wu 25:42

The first time I heard that there was a feeling of expansion and openness behind the energy of it, because I didn’t know what it meant and I also did have a bunch of perceptions of Christianity from my experiences growing up all the way to adulthood. But I was able to somehow let go of the words and feel into the energy of it and that energy has helped me in a lot of healing situations or times where I’ve heard someone say it, it just has given me something. So I’m curious to hear more about it.

Andrew Shykofsky 26:21

Yeah, okay.

Andrew Shykofsky 26:22

Well, so the word Christ can be interchange with God and can be interchange with love and what I really, probably one of the biggest messages I want to put out there to people is that, because somebody is Christian, does not necessarily mean they represent Christ.

Andrew Shykofsky 26:40

I think one of the hardest things somebody can do is strive to reach this consciousness, this potential consciousness of the Christ consciousness. And I think we can touch into it for an hour, a minute, a day, a week, and then we can slip back out, it’s not, you’re not guaranteed to be once you reach it’s permanent. The idea is that, somewhere within every soul, human soul, there exists a place of perfection, a spark or cell of God that everyone must have been given.

Andrew Shykofsky 27:12

In the Christian tradition and the Christian mystical tradition, we call that the Christ, so that within myself exist, the Christ. It’s different than my soul. My soul is the unique expression of who I am based on lifetimes of different experiences and every one of us has had different experiences so our souls are different. But the Christ in all of us is the same, it is the pure cell of God. And one of the cool teachings is that, you know, the Christ is the masculine and the soul is the feminine. And this has nothing to do with whether you’re a man or a woman, whether you’re a man or a woman, your soul is the feminine component to the masculine Christ, or the masculine itself.

Andrew Shykofsky 27:49

And so we’re striving to have this marriage of the two, and then to express ourselves as this unique soul who I am connected, guided in love with the Christ within and there’s a great passage in when mother Mary is pregnant with the Messiah, and she says, “My soul magnifies the Lord.”

Andrew Shykofsky 28:12

And every time I hear it, it just makes me want to weep. It’s so beautiful, it’s that the Christ in me is this place of light and it’s being broadcast through my soul. So people experience me, hopefully, as somebody who’s broadcasting the presence of truth and love through the unique ways that I see things, the way I say things, the way I perceive, the way that I interact with people. And that’s my goal is to be as transparent on that particular relationship, Christ in me, married to the soul in me and me, living from that.

Andrew Shykofsky 28:46

The Christ Consciousness is the awareness of that, the awareness of the presence of the Christ as an experiential thing. I mean, many people will talk about Christ consciousness, but we don’t know if they have touched into it. That may sound arrogant, I don’t know, it’s just that, to me, if I’m in the presence of somebody who knows it, because I’ve been engaged in it for the last, I mean, I was brought into this initiation of it, 2008. So over those 10 years, my awareness of it has matured at least whatever 10 years gets you I mean, it’s not that long. But when you’re in the presence of somebody who is in that vicinity, it’s very evident, it’s evident in their energy. Now somebody could have a bad day, and they’re feeling depressed or feeling angry, and they kind of slipped a little bit.

Andrew Shykofsky 29:39

But to me, like when you’re in the presence of somebody who has done that work, who strives to know that truth and love, and there are some people who do it, they don’t call it Christ consciousness, it doesn’t really have to be called that. That’s a term that, I like the sound of it. I like the alliteration of it. I like the powerful sound of it. But I’ve been in the presence of Buddhist people who have that love, and you just, you’re with them and there’s not a lot to say, it’s just like, Hey, man, we’re there and it’s just, you know, you’re my brother, and you look a little different, but have a hug. And I mean, I have felt that and it’s very touching to me, and it’s like, those are the people I want to hang out with, because it’s easy, you know that the agenda is clean for the most part. Enough about Christ, what do you think about Christ?

Candice Wu 30:24

I’m marveling at how similar our ideas are about spirituality, truth, and the energy of love and truth. I usually don’t use the words God or Christ consciousness. I think, from what you’re saying, it sounds like the word I use is spirit or energy, like the source energy. I don’t mind the word God, or Christ Consciousness when it comes from that place and I think it’s been confused for me, you know, I just didn’t, I didn’t exactly know where you were coming from and so it’s marvelous to hear this now because I feel that we’re coming from a very similar place with it all. And the soul, being the part, the unique, individualized, presence of us that love or God or spirit comes through. But that spirit is the same in everyone or in Yoga and Ayurveda, its self, or Amman, which is God, which is Self with a big S, not a small S is how they differentiated and that self is the same self of everything that exists in the creative energy of the source. So everything you’re saying is just like, Oh, yeah, right, that’s yeah, another language set. But it gets us to the same, feels like the same experience, maybe there are differences, that’s why I’m landing at the moment.

Andrew Shykofsky 32:22

Yeah, well, the self capitalists, we use that term also, in the Christian mystical teachings. We talk about self-realization, to realize, to make real the self, you know, it’s one thing to talk about it, to read about it, to have heard about it, it’s a whole other realm when you actually do the work to come into the experience of it, and then have that experience validated by somebody who you know, has it. And that’s something that can tweak some people, because, I mean, people have been very wounded by the authority of their parents or their teachers and so to give somebody authority to say, Yes, your spiritual experience is valid and real, that’s hugely scary for a lot of people and I understand that, because I had, you know, my dad was quite authoritative, in not a good way.

Andrew Shykofsky 33:09

But a teacher, a real teacher, who has the intent to bring a soul through the journey into self-realization, that is an individual that begins and puts a lot of energy into developing trust, spends a lot of time with the awareness that, you know, a lot of these really wounded souls are the ones who want God more than anything, because we’re looking for some hope that life is, you know, better than it had been. And so we really want to get there. But, I mean, if I could tell you how many people are sort of drawn to classes I’ve given and then, you know, you can feel and that energy when they’re there, that they’re just really nervous, and they’re protective, there’s a level of anger in there. There’s a level of heart brokenness in terms of how many times they felt misled, how many times they, some people have, you know, said I’m here to help you, but really, it’s about the money or it’s about sexual prowess. I mean, it’s really tragic, actually.

Andrew Shykofsky 34:07

And, I mean, that’s something that, for me, I’m really, really adamant about offering as clean of a presence as I can. And so that puts a tremendous amount of scrutiny back on myself to make sure every nuance of mine that is still, you know, potentially not transformed has to be examined pretty much on a daily basis, not all day, I look at myself and try to fix myself. But when I have emotions, and when my motivation you know, gets tempted to go in the wrong direction, I have to catch it immediately and I like that. I like that kind of level of accountability because I don’t know, I have this sense that this is what God wants me to do and I want to get to the end of my life and just feel like or turn to God or Jesus or whoever greets me on the other side and go, did I do okay? And they’re like, Yeah, you did okay. You know, I mean, I would be happy with that, enough to be balloons and confetti but just you know, you did a nice job. We saw you’re trying to do the right thing and yeah he slipped here and there, but we were watching you. We love you, you know. So —

Candice Wu 35:18

Yeah, well, what is your idea of the other side?

Andrew Shykofsky 35:22

Well, I always preface it by going, I’m, you know, I have certain kind of ideas based on past lives. But I don’t have direct experience to say, I know for sure this or that happens. But the things that I’ve heard, and the things that I’ve intuited through my own meditation makes sense to me.

Andrew Shykofsky 35:40

First is, it’s not necessary to think a lot about it. Because, you know, it’s more important to learn how to integrate soul and self and be on the earth and be a positive, you know, contributor. So, when I was younger, and these out of body experiences and all this stuff that I was pursuing, I was really enamored with trying to experience the spiritual world. Then at some point, I went like, well, actually, I probably should just learn how to live on the material plane, because that’s where I am basic. So my focus is much more about that.

Andrew Shykofsky 36:10

Now, I think that at the time of death, the soul and the self travel or enter into a different realm of the non-material realm. I think initially, we look like we do on Earth, because there’s a sense that it’s less jarring. And so like, you probably go like, well, where am I? And you look around, go, okay, well, I got a body so probably, you know, I think it’s a way that the whole system allows us to transition over there without it being too dramatic. I believe that we will be welcomed by loving beings to kind of explain to us, you know, what’s happened, fact that we no longer, you know, our life on the earth is not happening, we died, we were killed, whatever, something is ended and we’re now on the other side.

Andrew Shykofsky 37:01

And I think in time, and I don’t know how long this takes, I think when people adjust to where they’re at, there would be some kind of a loving review process by which we examine, okay, how do you feel your life went, you know, where are the areas that you felt you grew? What did you do? How did you help out? Where were you selfish? Where were you angry? And the idea is that in that spiritual realm, it’s sort of a period to get ready for the next incarnation.

Andrew Shykofsky 37:31

Unless, and this is, I think, a huge debating point. I mean, how many people I’ve met, spiritual people go like, yeah, this is my last life. I’m not coming back.

Candice Wu 37:39

Yeah.

Andrew Shykofsky 37:40

Well, why do you say that?

Candice Wu 37:43

Because I have some friends that say that. And I’m like, Well, how do you know that? And you don’t want to come back? Like, it’s just an interesting thing to hear from someone and I always get curious about what their idea of that is. So — yeah.

Andrew Shykofsky 38:00

Yeah.

Andrew Shykofsky 38:00

Well, I mean, to me, it makes sense. I mean, the more that you develop spiritually, I mean, I think the earth becomes a harder place to live in a lot of ways. Because, I mean, I don’t want to be a downer. But it’s like, there’s it’s just, I find it difficult because of the discrepancies between the true intent and the, you know, sort of the way that people relate, and also just the degree to which people are interested in this stuff. So it makes sense to me when a really sensitive person who loves God and loves people and loves the earth, goes, yeah, I’m not coming back because I think they’re looking for some sense of security that I don’t have to, please don’t make me go back to that place.

Candice Wu 38:37

Yeah. Right.

Andrew Shykofsky 38:40

No, I get that.

Candice Wu 38:41

Yeah, it is a hard place to be.

Andrew Shykofsky 38:43

But at the same time, I agree. Let’s lay it out there. I mean, you know, just watching what we do to the planet, if you love the planet. I mean, it’s just, you know, it’s just sad and then you have a presence is coming in and sort of almost reversing all these, all the progress that the groups have worked for decades to try to protect the environment is now going like, well, doesn’t matter. We want oil and we want coal. I mean, it’s just heartbreaking.

Candice Wu 39:09

It’s excruciating.

Andrew Shykofsky 39:11

Okay, so I think that, like you, I don’t know, if I mean, what I was taught was that, as a priest, I have taken a vow to come back into physical incarnations for as long as is needed, that souls, there are souls on earth who are striving for, you know, the kind of path that I was given, that it is my duty, and in my responsibility to incarnate, go through the process, and once again of self-realization in the next body, and then the abuse as a priest.

Andrew Shykofsky 39:43

I mean, I remember I had a psychic reading when I was in my 20s and a woman said, Oh, you’ve been a priest in another life. Now back then my idea of a priest was different than it is now but something in me went, Oh, that’s kind of cool. I felt good about it, you know, it wasn’t until almost 30 years later that I became a priest, or 25 years later didn’t actually go, Oh, yeah, I mean, I would say with quite a bit of certainty, that this vow of service has been on my soul for a while.

Andrew Shykofsky 40:09

And so, with having taken the vow in this life, I’m accepting like, well, I’ll come back as long as I must. And then even if I don’t have to, and they say, Well, do you want to come back? I may come back, just because, you know, if I’m, if I’ve developed enough to go like, yeah, it’s a bit irritating. But if I can help a few people, I mean, that really does the most joy for me, is being able to do things that are meaningful to other people. I wouldn’t, I was not like that when I was younger. In my 20s I did not have that mentality. So that transformation has been as a result of coming into the presence of Christ and going, life is about being of service to others and in so doing, your life will be blessed. And people will go like, well, people are just going to take all your energy and all your money and all your, you know, like, how can that be joyful? Well, you got to experience it. I mean, they don’t take all your money, they take a little bit, not all of it.

Andrew Shykofsky 41:07

I mean, actually, that’s not even true, because I have more money now than I’ve ever had, you know, and I don’t even have a job.

Andrew Shykofsky 41:13

I mean, my point is, by being flippant about it is like, yeah, God has really rewarded me, I think, or graced me, whatever language because I’m all in. And I’m trying, I’m sort of like trying to be you know, there’s a passage in the Bible that talks about John the Baptist as the voice in the wilderness crying out, make straight the ways of the Lord. In other words, go, like straighten up, like, let’s rain in those places where we fade away, because we’re depressed, or we’re disappointed, we’re angry, and, you know, rain in those tendencies to be selfish and kind of lustful and so: Well, everybody else is doing so I’m going to get my chunk. Like, let’s make it a straight, nice, clean connection between me and God. And, you know, let’s see how that looks.

Candice Wu 41:58

Yeah.

Andrew Shykofsky 41:58

And sometimes I feel like that I’m, I’m kind of at these courses, or what I teach or classes going, like, oh, man, this is so cool if you do this, you know, it might take a few years, I wish I could say it’s 30 days, but it’s not. And, but you’re going to — this is going to happen, and then you’re going to have this change. And then you know, if you stay with it, you’ll be brought through this initiation and that’s a whole shift in consciousness. And, you know, initially, that brings up some darkness, because you take on more light, you’re going to see more darkness, but that’ll fade away if you, you know, it’s like, knowing the process and then conveying it as articulate as I can. And then, you know, feeling a lot of people going like, hey, sounds great. Sounds like it worked out for you and, you know, maybe we’ll see you next week. But, you know, I probably have to clean my yard or so.

Candice Wu 42:43

Oh, right. Are you saying like, it can be a lot for people? Or —

Andrew Shykofsky 42:48

Well, I think it can be a lot for people. And also, I think that for some people, it’s like, yeah, I mean, it doesn’t, I don’t think this is it. Now, like what you’re saying sounds like it works for you. But — and I’m used to that, you know, I don’t feel it’s my obligation to force people into a super-spiritual path. But you know, it can be painful and frustrating to be sitting with somebody who’s got a particular challenge, and you’re going like inside of myself I’m like: oh, man, this could be alleviated through this process.

Andrew Shykofsky 43:24

But, you know, we can only sort of be, I don’t know, we can help out as we can. And that’s part of this journey is letting people as souls have the free will to do whatever path they want.

Candice Wu 43:37

Yeah, I can relate to that, too. And I think it’s a really powerful place to be to have gone through your own journey and to have come to a place of love where it’s got enough clarity, that it’s not about your own agenda to support someone, but about what you can offer and that’s wonderful that you’re doing that. So where are you on your journey?

Andrew Shykofsky 44:03

I’m in a kind of a difficult spot, I’ll be honest with you. I mean, as a result of being ordained this summer into, you know, this level known as master teacher, I mean, my sensitivity right now is higher than it’s ever been to, you know, the realities of what’s going on, my, you know, in social situations on the planet, I mean, I can’t even, I really can’t even listen to even NPR, any news, I can’t listen to it. It’s just it has such a negative effect on me and I think that there’s an integration period, you know, once when on this path, when you’re ordained, it’s a dramatic shift in consciousness that reveals itself, sometimes over weeks or over months.

Andrew Shykofsky 44:45

And, you know, some people have a more refined skill when it comes to inner personal relationships, that has not been my specialty. In other words, when there’s a discrepancy between somebody’s intent, I mean, like, for example, I’m sure you’re familiar as a psychologist or somebody in that realm with passive-aggressive expressions of anger and that is something that I deal with daily, in a way that’s very difficult for me, because it’s not kind to bring it up, if somebody is doing that, if somebody may not have the spiritual sight to see it and yet to be the recipient of it, is really difficult. It really has a bad effect on me. And I mean, with the shift in my sensitivity, as a result of this ordination, it’s like magnified.

Andrew Shykofsky 45:35

So I am learning how to, I mean, and then my challenge, because I’ve signed on to be a priest and a teacher is to love people, regardless of what kind of energy they throw my way, that doesn’t necessarily mean I got to hang out with them and be a punching bag. But it does mean that I am not allowed. It’s not — I don’t allow myself the choice to write somebody off because of the, you know, I mean, yeah, they may not be in my life day to day, but if I’m aware that there’s something in me that’s closed my heart to them, that’s not acceptable. I’m really not allowed to, I put that standard on myself, because that’s how I was taught. And that is, I mean, for lack of a better word is brutal. It’s brutal to face that kind of challenge when, you know, there’s no apology forthcoming. There’s no awareness of it. And also, it’s lonely in that sense. I mean, I don’t want to come on your show and make a you know, soapbox plea for but it’s like, I’m just being straight up with you as far as, I love the fact that I was, that somebody saw the receptivity to the teachings and work with me and prepared me for ordination and had the faith that I would be true to the ordination that I’m totally grateful for.

Candice Wu 46:44

Thank you for sharing that. It sounds really hard when you said, you’ve made that choice and commitment to keep your heart open, not close your heart off to someone even if you’re experiencing that passive-aggressiveness coming towards you. How does that work out? What does it look like to stay in that engaged connection?

Andrew Shykofsky 46:44

And if, you know, we had more time, I’ll tell you how difficult that journey was working with teachers coming upon teachers that were a little bit off and being misled and stuff, I had that all as part of this journey. And yet, I had no other choice in terms of, well, this is what I got to do. I just know what’s right for me. But I’m in a period now, it’s like six months since my ordination that, not quite six months, I would say it’s very difficult and I accepted. I see it changing over time as I soften, relax, learn a higher level of compassion and acceptance. But yeah, this is a challenging phase for me.

Andrew Shykofsky 47:53

Well, it’s real simple. I mean, I appreciate the question. Because I mean, this is the kind of stuff that I’d love to talk about, you know, that somebody would actually be curious. It’s a very, you know, one level, it’s a very subtle experience, because when I’m sitting and counseling people, and I can sense that the energy, you know, they’re going like, Well, you know, they really badly hurt me, or they wounded me, but it’s fine. You know, I have forgiven them, I moved on. But the energy is not yet really forgiveness, you know, there’s a sense that, as long as I don’t see them, as long as I don’t hear their name, as long as I don’t hear about what they’re doing, it’s fine. But bring that person into the room and all of a sudden, you know, it’s like the dander is going to go up, because there’s still a sense of unresolved angst or anguish, or there’s a tightness about what happened in the past.

Andrew Shykofsky 48:36

If I sense that there’s something about that in me towards another person, because of, you know, some element about the relationship, I have to resolve it. I have to sit in meditation and I have to feel myself tempted to want to, you know, say to myself, well I want this person out of my life, it’s fine, it’s done with, I won’t have to think about it. And I go, Okay, that’s not an acceptable solution, I have to sit here in meditation and I have to reach a place where internally, I do not go down that path. I go, I have to get to a place where there is no guile in me towards this person, there’s no desire to get away from them. It doesn’t mean I have to hang out with them or have a relationship. But the connection if I was to see them, I would be able to hug them and it would be — and here’s a place where I actually was able to accomplish this.

Andrew Shykofsky 49:24

And it was a monumental feat that my dad who, you know, was responsible for sexually molesting me, and I did confront him within a number of years ago, and he never admitted anything. And I went on a long journey with the teachers that I had to reach a place of understanding, acceptance, and forgiveness of all what I went through, so that I was able to have a relationship with my dad in the present that had no spite on my end, no need for me to get him to validate anything. No hidden desire to watch him suffer for anything.

Andrew Shykofsky 49:58

It took months, actually, it took months of sitting in meditation, reaching that place, and then just becoming furious, pounding the pillows on the couch going, that’s all I can do today. Because you know, it’s maddening. Maddening when you think about another adult human being taking advantage of their child. I mean, it’s sick, right? Obviously, we know that element of society as sick, to be the recipient of it and realize over your adult life as I have been. How difficult it is to recover from that, like when your sexuality gets all you know rewired because of somebody else’s selfishness and lost at an early age.

Andrew Shykofsky 50:32

It’s really hard to get back to neutral. I mean, we sort of get back to a place where we function, but we don’t have the same clean parts that you get out of the factory, right? What I mean is your internal neurology is not the same. So somebody could be angry about that for their whole life. And just go, yeah, my whole life was ruined, because of what you know, if you counsel people. So how do you get to a place where you accept that, like, somebody walks in and, you know, cuts off your leg and you’re supposed to go, Okay, well, I got to get to a place where I have no guile towards that person that’s permanently crippled me.

Andrew Shykofsky 51:05

It is possible, it’s possible to get there. But I don’t think it’s possible without a connection to Christ, to God to love, that has to open my sight to be able to stay in that vibration, that energy, that attitude and be truthful about it and I’ve done that work. And I know how hard it is and some days, I just have to go, I’ll pick it up tomorrow. I can’t finish it right now. Because, you know, like I was telling you in the beginning, when the first thing that I became aware of was like, I cannot stand hypocrisy. I’m way more easy-going when somebody says, Yeah, I did that and this was my intent, and I’m not even sorry about it. Okay, well, hey, at least you’re being honest. I like the honesty.

Candice Wu 51:44

Right.

Andrew Shykofsky 51:45

When somebody is not being honest, oh, my God, it’s like, maddening to me. And when I was younger, all I wanted to do was expose those lies and go, I’m going to show you what a liar you are. Okay, well, that’s not helpful. But internally, how do you get to a place where even if they’re being hypocritical, and they know that they’re lying, and they know that they’re doing all these things, and then they deny them, how do you reach a place where there’s no guile, there’s no anger, there’s no sense of justice not being, you know, brought about. All I can tell you is that consciousness exists to get there. And it’s just to what degree you’re guided, and you’re driven to get there, but oh, my God, how liberating.

Andrew Shykofsky 52:24

You know, there’s a great passage in the Gospel where Jesus talks about, you know, if you’re angry at somebody, basically go and resolve it with them and if you can resolve it one on one, bring somebody else with you, and see if that person can mediate, and if they still can’t resolve it, then bring the whole congregation.

Candice Wu 52:38

Wow.

Andrew Shykofsky 52:38

And if you still can resolve it, at least, you know, forgive them before God. Because if you don’t, he says, you know, you will be taken, you know, to the trial, and the judge will, you know, condemn you and you will be in prison, and the guard will take you to prison, and you will remain in there until every penny has been paid. But people go, Well, that sounds pretty harsh.

Andrew Shykofsky 52:56

What it means on the mystical is if you don’t deal with your anger, you are going to be imprisoned by it. When you’re angry at somebody, I mean, I’m sure you can relate to this. If you’re in a relationship, and you’re angry at your partner, it’s like, it’s hell, because you can’t just be yourself with them. There’s an energy of having to maintain that tension until they see it or they apologize or whatever. It’s terrible.

Candice Wu 53:16

Absolutely.

Andrew Shykofsky 53:17

Getting to a place where you forgive — so I was saying a lot of stuff, let me finish this last point.

Candice Wu 53:21

Yeah.

Andrew Shykofsky 53:22

When you get to a point where you forgive somebody who brutalized you, and you truly reach that place of neutrality, that is a monstrous liberation of energy. And, you know, that’s the thing that you can’t explain to people or really communicate unless they go through it. And because I’ve been through it, and I can explain that, people — they give me a little more credibility. They’re like, wow, you know, that’s amazing. I don’t think I could ever do that. I’m like, you could do it. But yeah, you got to have to want to do it.

Candice Wu 53:50

Yeah, right. And it takes a lot of commitment to that and moving through the tough stuff to do it.

Andrew Shykofsky 53:59

Yeah. Because it was wrong, what was done. And you know, the person did lie, or they didn’t know what I mean, there are all sorts of reasons to go, no, why should I? Like, because you will be liberated if you do. And maybe like, well, maybe, maybe not but I can’t get involved in this. That’s how some people think and I get that too. I’m not down on people for that. It’s just like, again, if you feel like you’re the person screaming, hey, the solution is this road less traveled, you’ll really work if you stay in there.

Candice Wu 54:28

Yeah, I think what you’re saying is that we are the ones enslaved by that anger, or that situation, or that tension between us and whoever it is that we’ve had a situation with, and it’s incredibly liberating to find the place where either you’re able to be in connection with them with love, or that you’re walking away with respect, not with anger. It’s such a difference, like to be able, as you said, you don’t have to hang out with them. But when you walk away from them, what kind of feeling is behind that, has been one of my gauges as well for what’s going on underneath things. And I think I’m very much like you. I don’t think I would have said it in the same words as you have a commitment to keeping your heart open to other people. But that’s exactly what I do as well, whenever I experience some situation that brings another part out in me, even if I don’t want to deal with it, it’s like there’s no ignoring it.

Candice Wu 55:42

And, you know, there’s a deeper part of me that actually really does want to look at it and to know more about myself and to reach that freedom. And if I don’t, I also know, I’m just going to repeat it somewhere else until I do so. Sometimes I just let myself you know, do it again, but right, might as well do it now.

Candice Wu 56:07

Yeah, thanks for sharing that. That’s very real and tangible, what you’re saying.

Andrew Shykofsky 56:15

Good. Well, I think when you have that conscience, like what you’re describing, if the conscience won’t let you, you know, put it to rest, it’s just like, it’s a developmental stage where we go like, by ignoring this, I know I’m ignoring it and I can’t live with myself, because I’m ignoring something that I know, I should not be ignoring. And that’s a pressure, that a lot of people want to get away from that. But I think if everybody responded to it, we all just kind of we’re a little bit more responsible for the pressure of our conscience. You know, the world wouldn’t take that long for things to transform.

Candice Wu 56:48

I think that goes back to truth. Like how, what’s our relationship to truth?

Andrew Shykofsky 56:54

Yeah, how much you value it? How much do you want it?

Candice Wu 56:57

Or, how much are we afraid of it or —

Andrew Shykofsky 56:59

Right. Well, that’s true. I think that the reason that people are afraid of it because it’s going to create pressure for things to change.

Candice Wu 57:06

Yeah.

Andrew Shykofsky 57:06

You know, and I love that, actually. I mean, I don’t always love it. There are days where I, you know, I wish it could be a little lower. But ultimately, you know, it’s like, in the beginning of the path, that pressure, well, first of all, it’s liberating because like, Oh my god, there’s a way. There’s a way to be liberated. So there’s this great joy in the beginning of finding a path and then there’s the sort of the harder phase and like, Oh, my God, I have to stop doing this and I got to start doing this. And oh, my God, I’m exhausted.

Candice Wu 57:33

Right.

Andrew Shykofsky 57:33

Because I thought it was okay or I hope that was okay. It’s like, not that I’m not okay. It’s just that, yeah, you know, I mean, if you go to the bin of dirty water and drink it, you’re going to get sick. And I go, like, why don’t you walk the extra mile and get it directly out of the rivers and I kind of got to walk a mile?

Candice Wu 57:49

Yeah.

Andrew Shykofsky 57:50

I’m just going to drink the sewer water. It’s like, it’s making you sick. I know. But whatever. I can deal with it.

Andrew Shykofsky 57:57

No, I mean, in a way, it’s like it’s just a mile. I know. But that’s like 20 minutes if I walk and it’s cold outside, and then by the time I get home, the waters too cold. Just —

Candice Wu 58:06

That’s an interesting trade-off, right?

Candice Wu 58:10

The things that we don’t want to do, but the things that we’re willing to pay the price for?

Andrew Shykofsky 58:16

I know.

Candice Wu 58:16

Yeah.

Andrew Shykofsky 58:18

It’s kind of disheartening sometimes, you know, when you’re, I mean, I don’t know. Let’s stay on topic here.

Candice Wu 58:25

Well, speaking of the topic, what —

Andrew Shykofsky 58:29

We are at the end here?

Candice Wu 58:29

Well, I think so. I have one more question for you and feel free to ask anything of me.

Candice Wu 58:36

This question is, what really brings you alive at the moment? What’s inspiring to you or life-giving?

Andrew Shykofsky 58:46

Oh, man, after my diatribe about the most of the hardest phase in my life, what brings me alive.

Andrew Shykofsky 58:52

You know, I am lucky that at least probably three or four times each week, I mean, I’m teaching a Monday morning class at this place, it’s a spiritual coop in Mount Pleasant, which is about a 25-minute drive from where I live, and it seems it’s considered part of Charleston. This place has been running for a while the woman who runs it, she’s basically a Christian mystic. She’s love — she’s really encouraging me to do these classes.

Andrew Shykofsky 59:18

So when I sit in the class and I get to speak of this stuff, I absolutely come alive. I’m so hopeful. I’m so full of spirit, I’m so engaged. When I do my Sunday services here, in my home, I have a relatively large room as a chapel so we have people come, we meditate, we sing, I do a sermon, I teach a Bible contemplation class from the mystical perspective on Wednesday nights.

Andrew Shykofsky 59:44

And finally, I mean, I’ve been in Chicago, Charleston, about 10 months and we’re getting consistent attendance at these things. I mean, in the beginning, when you start a mystical community, it takes a while before even one person will come and then when you get one person coming, it’s a little awkward, they’re like, Am I the only one here? It’s like, yeah, but if you just stuck around, you help us get the second person.

Andrew Shykofsky 1:00:04

And so now, these things, I mean, we had five people at the Bible contemplation last Wednesday. We had three people at Sunday service yesterday at Bliss, we had, I think, seven, these are good numbers, and to be able to sit in the room with people who are engaged in this stuff and be able to speak the truth that I know, at whatever level I’m at, and interact. It’s just so comforting to sit with people who resonate with this stuff. And what a privilege to be the teacher, you know, to sit there and be able to express what I have experienced and hopefully create some hope for others who may want that. That’s what really brings life to me.

Candice Wu 1:00:41

Yeah, there’s really nothing like being able to be fully expressed in yourself and to be received and gotten by those around you. And —

Andrew Shykofsky 1:00:51

Yeah.

Candice Wu 1:00:53

Like swimming in the same pool.

Andrew Shykofsky 1:00:55

That’s so true.

Andrew Shykofsky 1:00:56

I mean, I do love teaching, and I do love, I love the gospel story. I don’t teach all the Bible, I teach the Gospels primarily because I believe that Jesus lived a life that demonstrates how do we get into the full realization of Christ consciousness. I believe that that’s what his gospel is truly about. This is how he says, I am the truth, the life, and the way. So he might as well said, I will help you and show you how to come into the full realization of your potential as a Christ as being. It just, you know, you need some help, most people need some help and being able to interpret the teachings of Scripture. So that’s one of my roles is to be a facilitator to help people get to unlock the mysteries that are in there.

Candice Wu 1:01:39

I like how that sounds, the mystery within us. And —

Andrew Shykofsky 1:01:43

Yeah, that sounds cool, right?

Candice Wu 1:01:45

Sounds great.

Andrew Shykofsky 1:01:47

Yeah, I mean, I, I’ve been doing the Bible contemplation, I was a student in there, you know, for seven years, and teaching the class for another eight years, and it’s always freaking fascinating, you know. I have some of these passes I’ve done a dozen times, I’m like, Oh, my God, that’s a different angle. I never thought of it. Because, you know, they call the Gospels, the living word, the teaching comes alive, based on who’s in the room or where people are at, the time of the year, etc. There’s no other book that I have found that has that kind of mystical quality.

Candice Wu 1:02:18

Yeah, I’ve heard the living word. But what you’re saying gives so much meaning to it. It’s very alive. It’s very evolving. Sounds like —

Andrew Shykofsky 1:02:29

Yeah, exactly. I mean, it’s so cool. Because I’ll sit there and meditate. I’ll pick a passage beforehand, I’ll go into meditation. I feel the Christ and saying, well, let’s do this passage tonight. So okay, let me read it. Let me just get a custom to where it’s at and part of me be like, there’s always something going okay, what does that mean today? And then when we get into the class, it’s like, someone will say something like, Oh, that’s cool. Well, can I just say more about that and it starts to take the conversation because the Spirit of God is present, trying to bring forth the teachings that each one of us needs that night and so stuff comes up. That’s just, like, so freaking cool. You just go like, man, I love this.

Candice Wu 1:03:08

I love that. I’ve often started like, women circles, doing that same sort of thing, not reading from the Bible, or the Gospels, but with pieces of our own lives or other things that inspire us, or some idea and concept. and I think it’s so cool that you’re doing that. And I almost feel like, how come I didn’t know this sooner? Like, all this time I was teaching right next to you while you were doing this and this sounds pretty growth-full and magical and real. Powerful.

Andrew Shykofsky 1:03:51

Yeah, I think I’ve become very discreet about talking about Christian things. Because, you know, I’ll probably, I’m sure with yourself, I may have, like, put out a question at some point about what’s your sense of, you know, Christ or Christianity. And if it was, like, if you had said something like, well, it’s not really my path, but I respected which is probably something that I would have might have heard from you. I probably just decided that it wasn’t something I wanted to, these people can become sensitive it’s like, are you trying to convert me? I really don’t want that right now. So, you know, this is a better form for me to become enthusiastic because I don’t, there’s no part of me that wonders if you think I’m trying to get you engaged, and you know, something that’s not really right for you.

Candice Wu 1:04:34

Right, cleaner.

Andrew Shykofsky 1:04:37

So that’s probably my reasoning behind that. But it’s yeah, it’s just nice that you can hear and receive it, even if it’s not necessarily the thing that you exactly want to do. I think you and I relate to the excitement and enthusiasm of truth. And just, I mean, when I hear the truth, like in these Bible classes, I just like, it’s like a direct injection of pure love energy into my bloodstream. You can’t help but get high off that.

Candice Wu 1:05:01

Well, I think it’s a, I can feel and with the words you’re saying as well, were you are really interested in the work that you’re doing, in the teaching that you’re doing, and your own growth. And maybe some of the verses in gospel or Bible don’t really resonate with me. But as I’m hearing you speak to them, and then go to the aspect of what’s underneath it, or the mystery in it, or something that feels very spiritual around it, not as literal or concrete, that really resonates with me.

Candice Wu 1:05:43

So thank you for sharing all this today and sharing this with all of our listeners in such a candid way. I’ve really learned a lot and enjoyed hearing your story.

Andrew Shykofsky 1:05:56

Oh, cool. Well, you’re welcome, Candice, it’s has been nice to be able to keep in touch with you over the years, even if we’re in different parts of the world. And you know, it seems instantaneous, that we can just pick things up from where we left them off, because there’s no imposition of agenda between you and I. And so that’s, you know, a beautiful thing to know souls on the planet where if you don’t see him for two years, and then you know, you see them, you sit down, you have a coffee, or you know, whatever beverage you just can get right into it, and just get to pick it up again, and then walk away and go like, well, I’ll see you when I see you and I know you’ll be out there. And hopefully, you’re doing the good works. But —

Candice Wu 1:06:34

Yeah.

Andrew Shykofsky 1:06:34

If you slip and you want to reach out, call me or if you have a triumphant moment and you want to send me a text, I’d love to hear about it.

Candice Wu 1:06:40

Yeah. Well, it helps from one Aries to another. It helps that we’re both Aries for that kind of connection.

Andrew Shykofsky 1:06:47

I know.

Candice Wu 1:06:48

Yeah.

Andrew Shykofsky 1:06:49

Probably right. That’s a good point.

Candice Wu 1:06:51

Well, you have a video online, Do We Create Reality, and just wanted to mention that to anyone listening who’s interested in learning more. And would you like to share your audience gift?

Andrew Shykofsky 1:07:09

I would, I mean, it was two things: The first thing, when we introduced me, you talked about coming to one of my visualization classes and you know, I spent about 25 years working on these techniques, just because I don’t think you can ever quite have it locked down. So I made a video, that’s like, do we create reality? Because some of these visualization teachers will go like you create your own reality and there’s a discrepancy is like, well, I create my own reality, or do I create the reality? You know, like, well, I think that the video explains how you create the reality that you live, but you have to be respectful of the, you know, the global reality, you can’t go in there, and like, one of the examples I use was, just because you want it to be 85 degrees and warm, and you’re living in a place where currently it’s 32 degrees, you’re not going to be able to visualize that. Now, I also say, you can try, because maybe I’m wrong.

Andrew Shykofsky 1:07:59

But I think, you know, let’s not be ridiculous, let’s try to use visualization to augment the reality that we live in so that it really works for us. And so that’s what that video is teaching.

Andrew Shykofsky 1:08:14

As far as the gift, I run a meditation center here in Charleston and I believe meditation is central to any kind of spiritual growth, to be able to, you know, sort of, dislodge momentarily from the physical, material reality and go into the internal. And so I’m offering if anybody’s in the area, Charleston, you know, which people know that where that area extends to, and they want to take my course, I’m offering a couple of new level one courses in January, always good to learn something at the beginning of the year. And if they want to write to me, my email, I’ll give them half off the course, the course is $239 for eight sessions, and so whatever half of that is, we do the math, but 120 minus 50 cents. I guess I just did the math.

Candice Wu 1:09:03

It’s all ready for you.

Andrew Shykofsky 1:09:05

It’s all right there.

Candice Wu 1:09:06

Yeah, then we’ll put your information, your email in the show notes. So if anyone’s listening and wants to get hold of you, just connect in there. And where can people find you, other than your email?

Andrew Shykofsky 1:09:23

Well, I have two websites. I’m anticipating you know, most people who may listen to this or probably not living in the immediate Charleston area. So if you’re interested in the things I spoke about, as a priest, I have the www.mysticalchurchofchrist.org. And if you’re interested in meditation and some of the wisdom teachings that have resulted from meditation, I have my www.meditatecenter.com.

Candice Wu 1:09:55

And you still have your meditation course online. Is that right?

Andrew Shykofsky 1:09:58

I do have a meditation course online. So if you go to the meditate center website, you’ll see there’s, you know, if you’ve fish around, surf around on that site, you’ll be able to find it. And if people want to write to me, they can write to me, it’s revandrew@mysticalchurchofchrist.org.

Candice Wu 1:10:17

Yeah, all of that will be available on the website, so don’t have to memorize it all.

Candice Wu 1:10:23

Well, thanks, Andrew. Are there any last words? Any last living words for the moment?

Andrew Shykofsky 1:10:30

Yeah, my last living words is don’t give up hope. I mean, the truth is there, the love is there, it’s probably just not the way we think or wished it would look. So that part I get, but, you know, there’s that old adage, that old adage that like, when you’re ready, the teacher will appear.

Candice Wu 1:10:46

Yeah.

Andrew Shykofsky 1:10:46

I think if you’re ready in your searching, you know, you’ll find someone who will help you. And I am, I get weird emails from, I say weird emails, I’m going to get random emails from people in Africa and India, they found my website, they’re like, how can you help me get to Christ?

Candice Wu 1:10:59

Oh, wow.

Andrew Shykofsky 1:11:00

You know, it’s I’m always willing to — Yeah, I know, and some of these people like, —

Candice Wu 1:11:05

That’s amazing.

Andrew Shykofsky 1:11:07

People in Africa are so kind and gentle and simple, in a way. I mean, not all of them. I don’t know all of them. But you know, just like, my heart goes out to that kind of, just that raw tenderness of people just like, I need help. Can you help me? I like that.

Candice Wu 1:11:20

Yeah.

Andrew Shykofsky 1:11:20

So just don’t give up. You know, it’s sad to live in a life where there’s no hope. I think hope, you know, is the bringer of life. So that’s my final last word. And just thank you so much. I mean, just being, having yourself to ask these incredible questions and to listen, to let me speak about things that matter so much to me. I mean, it’s very moving and I’m deeply grateful. You know, hope we get to do this again sometime.

Candice Wu 1:11:46

Thank you. I deeply enjoyed it and I’m very touched by the work you’re doing, and who you are and it’s an honor to have you here today. Thank you.

Andrew Shykofsky 1:11:57

Okay. Well, thank you. That’s very kind.

Candice Wu 1:11:59

It was so great to have Andrew, I learned a lot about him a lot of what we talked about today, as you can hear, from my surprise, at different times, and my own discovery, all of that was new to me. And as I said, we talk in a very real level where we just converse about how we’re doing on our journey and where we are in life and some of the history of who he is and where he came from, and what he’s done has always been in our conversation. So I hope you enjoyed that. And I hope also that brings some level of unity to the conversation because a lot of what he’s talking about, perhaps it has shifted some of your ideas about where the crossovers are of spirituality, God, consciousness, love, where we can really come together on those same ideas in a different language from a different angle, and landing in the same place.

Candice Wu 1:13:04

If you found any of this conversation interesting, check out his sample video of Do We Create Reality? where he talks a little bit more about how do you create your reality, how do we respect the global reality and what’s actually happening around us that is not in our control, and what do we do within that space where we do have control. So check that video out. It’s linked in the show notes at CandiceWu.com/andrew, and also his audience gift, if you’re in the Charleston area, or if you’re passing through, anyone hearing the podcast can email Andrew and receive 50% off the level one meditation course. And all that information can also be found at the show notes as well.

Candice Wu 1:13:51

Well, we’re coming down to the end. I am so glad that you joined us today. Thank you very much for listening. I appreciate all of you out there and I am just wishing you well on your seeking of love and truth as well as self. I hope this was insightful for you and I look forward to seeing you next week on the Embody Podcast.

Soul Body Retreat Guest — Sam 0:00

We’ve all cried and laughed, and I think that you can only do that when your spinning safe in the group that you’re showing that space with.

Soul Body Retreat Guest — Jana 0:05

I should remember — that on the plane ride home, I was just journaling, like as much as possible and trying to capture as much of the feeling and the emotions and the insights and all the stuff because I knew that once I got back to regular life, I could remember it, and I would be able to hold it even though regular life was going to happen.

Candice Wu 0:16

This episode gives you an inside look at the Soul Body Women’s Retreat of October 2018 with special guests straight from the retreat itself and gives you a little taste of what a 5-night immersion retreat can do for you.

Candice Wu 0:30

Hello, and welcome. You’re listening to the Embody Podcast, a show about remembering and embodying your true nature, inner wisdom, Embodied Healing and self-love.

Candice Wu 0:39

My name is Candice Wu, and I’m a holistic healing facilitator, intuitive coach, and artist sharing my personal journey of vulnerability, offering meditations and guided healing support and having co-creative conversations with healers and wellness practitioners from all over the world.

Candice Wu 1:18

Hey, everyone. Welcome back to the body podcast. It’s really great to have you here. I wanted to give you just a quick update about where I am right now. I am sitting watching the sunset on the coast of Costa del Sol, which is on the southern coast of Spain. I’m a bit outside of Marbella, between Malaga and Marbella in this little village called, Benalmádena. I have been in Spain for a few weeks, it has been a really interesting experience.

Candice Wu 1:26

I love Spain because of the character, little villages and just a small-town feel set right in the mountains and the water here. I love the food, the Tapas, and also the language which I’m still learning, Spanish. It’s tricky to communicate sometimes because they don’t know that much. I can say more than I can hear. Because people often speak really quickly for me, but I’m enjoying that learning process.

Candice Wu 2:09

It has been a bit tricky to go from place to place in search of a more long term stay. And for me, the long term is like over a month. I’d like to stay with my partner here for about six weeks, at this point, it’s coming down to five now. But finding a place here is not as easy as it was in Chiang Mai, Thailand when I was there. Here, most people want long term stays, or it’s looking at Airbnb. But I think that in some other places that more nomadic people are like, Tarifa, there will be something for us.

Candice Wu 2:57

I’ve been able to do a little bit of riding, horseback riding and that’s been wonderful. But what happened during my second ride was I wasn’t used to this very large horse and also not used to cantering. So the combination of the two, I went a little too quickly for my lesson and I ended up falling off twice, which is really interesting to fall and to know the mechanics in a sense of the nervous system, and how the nervous system might be taking it or what I might need in that experience, to help my nervous system not hold this in as traumatic and to let that whatever fear response in my body to complete so that I don’t take that with me, and until the next experience.

Candice Wu 3:48

So I spent some time working with the falls and they weren’t too bad, which is good. But at some point, I would like to work with another practitioner, a fellow practitioner or colleague or someone I can find out here to just do a little extra work with it, to make sure that that’s resolved. Because I did feel a lot of fear come up.

Candice Wu 4:11

I did work with my own healing coach, and, in not specifically somatic ways, but what came up afterward was a lot of past life trauma, actually. And some people have asked me, how do I know it’s a past life trauma? I don’t really know until I know and I had this sort of sense of why am I so terrified? Why is this bringing up so much fear? It’s like, seemed like more fear than what was warranted.

Candice Wu 4:42

But when I was working with my healer, it came up and she had asked me, do you feel like this is from a past life? And as soon as I said, Yes, like all of this emotion, just like flooded my body and move through true, which was very validating to the fact that it did seem like a past life.

Candice Wu 5:05

I’d love to talk about this experience a little more in a future podcast and working that up right now. But I just wanted to give you a little sense of what I’ve been doing here, beyond horseback riding and adjusting and trying to find a place. I’ve been still podcasting and working with my clients, one on one online, as well as just taking in the scenery here and enjoying, actually all the unexpected things that are happening, including, just this big dog walking up to me at the moment as we speak. He’s one of the dogs that live on this property. So all sorts of spontaneous and unpredictable things here do trigger me a lot and it’s just quite an adjustment. Every time I go to a new place to work with whatever comes up and to release even more attachment to the things that I am attached to.

Candice Wu 6:08

I had said it in my newsletter, I will not sacrifice the timing of working with my clients and the internet quality as I’m working with them online. And so a lot of these unexpected things seem to rub up against that and I even had a flight cancellation recently, which threw off my entire schedule by three days. And I worked around my clients to figure out the next flight. So it’s quite an adventure and ongoing learning.

Candice Wu 6:41

So aside from my adventures here and my travels, I want to share about the Soul Body Women’s Retreat, which happened a couple of weeks ago. I am just so happy to be able to share this with you. And that some of the retreat members are going to be a guest on this podcast. They have given me their feedback and it’s lovely to hear, especially given what I intended for this retreat, and what we all wanted coming into the retreat.

Candice Wu 7:10

So let’s talk about the retreat.

Candice Wu 7:14

The retreat was six days and five nights right inside Zion National Park. It was literally inside the park, set in the mountains, on private property, with a villa owned by a couple named Hank and Angie, and it was called True North villa. I love the name of the villa because the theme about it was that everyone finds their own true north and that every North that you find is true to you, which was exactly what this whole retreat was about. It was about finding yourself, being in alignment with you, and living from the space of your own mystery and magic, your own light and brilliance.

Candice Wu 7:56

So, already from the beginning, it was synchronous and just touching. And as we stepped into the villa, there were tons of drums of all kinds, crystals everywhere, like, I can’t even believe how many crystals were there, every corner of the space was touched with beauty.

Candice Wu 8:20

I chose this space very intuitively and something in me just knew when I saw the pictures of the place that this would be just right. Something about the bridging of Hopi tribe, as well as Mormons in that area in the history of Zion National Park, the bridging of consciousness and religion, the diversity of those two cultures together, brought a very special meaning to the place and it felt like an incredibly rich land. It was very red. So it brought us right to the root of our bodies where that depth and richness of land and earth in connection with the sky, in connection with our spirituality, our body, and spirit.

Candice Wu 9:10

So Soul Body was the name of the retreat and part of this theme was that we work with all the aspects of the soul, all of soul karma, or the tendencies of who we are over history, past life, as well as ancestry to complete what’s there, only what’s necessary in order for us to be truly in touch and aligned with our spirit which is clear of any soul history and desire that’s based in past experience, and is very present and creative in this moment. So this earth and sky magical place, these mountains and open-air just lent itself to the magic of the healing and transformation that each of the women wanted on this retreat.

Candice Wu 10:13

I set up this retreat in a really special way. I wanted each woman to bring their specific intentions. And I had a consultation with each one of them prior to the retreat so that they could share with me where they were in their life and what they wanted, what they struggled with, and who they wanted to be. What they desired out of the retreat. And I think that was incredibly fruitful because, by the time everyone arrived, it was as if I already had a pulse on who they were, and what they wanted. And in that way, each woman cocreated this retreat and we developed the collaboration synchronously over the time we spent together.

Soul Body Retreat Guest — Jana 10:55

You know, obviously, the fact that you had kind of a pre-session with everybody, was really awesome because it allowed everybody to, hey, I mean, for the people I don’t know you, it allows them to get comfortable with you, and allows them to ask whatever questions they might have. And I think it allows you to figure out, you know, where they’re at, and what they need.

Candice Wu 11:14

So over the course of the six days, we had time for Yoga, to support our bodies and movement. We talked about spirituality and the universe and how we manifest, how our bodies give expression to the intentions that are underneath both conscious and unconscious. We had meditation experiences right inside of the mountains and in caves. We took adventures in the leisure time where we got to go hiking or climb Angel’s landing, which is this steeper mountain that you can go up to where they say that angels land.

Soul Body Retreat Guest — Sam 11:57

I don’t know how I even came across Angel’s Landing as a hike, I was probably googling things to do in Utah. But I just had this overwhelming sense that I needed to be there. And so as you know, became slightly obsessed with, getting everyone on board, on the Angel’s Landing bus to go there. So yeah, I mean, it’s just such, for me, I think being there yesterday was confirmation that I was meant to be there. It was a spiritual experience for me, just being there in the energy of the place, just the magnificence, the beauty of the place is just breathtaking. A mind-blowing moment of camaraderie and bonding, which is a shared experience, which I think we’ll all remember for different reasons, maybe.

Soul Body Retreat Guest — Sam 12:46

But yeah, it’s amazing. And just being there was just confirmation that I knew I was meant to be there. I think some things in life, the people that you meet, or if you are called to go somewhere or, you know, experienced something, and you can’t quite put your finger on there. I think that’s just for me, it was just another evidence or another sign that sometimes you just need to trust in your, you know, your inner notches.

Candice Wu 13:14

Yeah.

Soul Body Retreat Guest — Sam 13:14

To follow that.

Candice Wu 13:15

Right.

Soul Body Retreat Guest — Sam 13:16

To follow your inner GPS, because you never know where it’s going to lead you to. And I think that I followed my inner delight, my body just fill up with joy and excitement and that was really, you know, being there at the top of Angel’s Landing, and I knew why.

Candice Wu 13:36

Some people took their leisure time to walk around the area of the villa, which had a medicine wheel, it had a labyrinth and could go to very private hikes and caves right in that area. And the deepest part of our work was spent doing Family Constellations, healing work, as well as Constellations with parts of ourselves, and dialoguing with different parts, as well as working with the body in more straightforward somatic ways to develop resilience and capacity, to feel more, to feel both joy and the challenges, the challenging emotions that are inside.

Candice Wu 14:22

And each person got a chance to have a specific time within the group and with the group interaction in a Constellation or in a certain experience that highlighted their personal healing and their desires, which gave way to some very powerful transformation for each of them in their own way. Some people came in with desires to feel more at ease in themselves and trust themselves. Some people came in wanting to work with a feeling of loneliness that they have and some deaths that had been in their lives, but the trajectory of their lives moving more towards health and what they desire and what they want.

Candice Wu 15:11

And others worked with money issues and releasing and sorting some past experiences that interfered with their daily life and stepped more into the independent power, the empowered self that they are that they know they are and which they wanted to cultivate more of.

Candice Wu 15:34

A lot of the work was deep and meaningful, but we also kept it light and played and had spontaneous times of drumming and dancing or just laughing together. And a huge part was the food that was inspired by Ayurvedic cooking by Robin Fisher. She is a massage therapist and Ayurvedic practitioner. Robin came on the trip to cook for us and to bring nourishment on many different levels, not just food levels, but supporting us in all ways and also being a part of the retreat, part of the healing and healing sessions, Yoga and meditation.

Candice Wu 16:22

She incorporated our different doshas and the needs of each of our bodies, plus the climate, the surroundings, and what we were doing in order to bring delicious meals for us, which, were just so special to eat together and eat mindfully and taste, such wonderful tastes in the midst of nourishing ourselves spiritually and physically.

Candice Wu 16:51

So some of the themes that I’m reflecting on that came up during the retreat were birthing and loving yourself, mother energy and healing, some pain and aloneness of men that came up in the healing process or shadow sides, connection and loneliness, experiences, completion, going beyond the soul karma and into spirit, into freedom and truth, money and the love that we want, the abundance that we want, releasing, sorting and selecting what we want to take with us forward, letting the fire within and outside of us transform, lightness and play.

Candice Wu 17:36

We also talked about the doshas, the different levels of our physiology, and how our beliefs take form and give expression to our energetic and physical bodies, and how we can tap into the most powerful healing inside of ourselves, to transform the outer world around us, for our lives and for the world.

Candice Wu 17:58

The whole experience to me was like creating this beautiful, magical sacred space, almost like a womb that held us in loving compassion, and in witness so that whatever needed healing could come through, and whatever transformation each person wanted, could shine into the light.

Candice Wu 18:21

Speaking of whom, we even had a chance, some of us to go to the Yoni cave, which was right around the corner from the villa. And this cave, I think, is just nicknamed, “The Yoni Cave”, is because it looks like a vagina, and even offshoots into two little side, like crevices, and those seemed like fallopian tubes. So we did a little bit of meditation inside of the Yoni cave, you can actually check out that meditation on Feminine Power and Creativity posted in the Embody Community on Facebook. It’s just a little taste of leisure time that we spent on the retreat and that’s with permission by the retreat members. So you can check that out at the Embody Community.

Candice Wu 19:11

And we looked at all of the different belief sets of who we are, that seem to be coming up for us, to reveal and to move and transcend. So after the retreat, I felt so embodied and more in myself, more like myself. And in talking with each of the retreat members, I got a variety of feedback from. I felt my acid reflux go away after two days too, I’m feeling so confident that I’m moving forward. I am so inspired to take the next step in my business. I’m revitalized and rejuvenated to take the steps I want to in my life, to other experiences, where people felt like they broke into some very deep parts of themselves that they may want some more healing with. And I think that’s all part of the process to hold space for all of those different parts of us, the inspired as well as the grieving and I’m just so glad that each of these women was able to bring themselves vulnerably and expose their hearts so that they could reach for what they wanted.

Candice Wu 20:31

So I want to give you a chance to hear their feedback, this is some of their feedback from the retreat at the end of it, as well as in the days after. So without further ado, let’s talk to some other retreat members.

Candice Wu 20:50

What have you found for yourself here, in terms of growth, what have you uncovered, and what makes it different for you?

Soul Body Retreat Guest — Sam 20:59

It’s hard to explain, articulate, but I think that just your unique blend of energy work, and just how you, just your, the true essence of the work that you do is very unique. You blend in a lot of different modalities, which for me, certainly been a learning experience as well, and a bit of an eye-opener. Saw a lot of your modalities I wasn’t even aware of, like Family Constellations. I just knew that even intuitively, that the, you know, the ancestral healing was something that perhaps, was something that I need to look at. Because, as you said, that I have done so much work on myself in terms of what I can control, you know, positive affirmations, I’m going to self-development programs, meditation, Yoga, and I just knew on a soul level that was probably something deeper, that was perhaps showing up in my life that I wasn’t even conscious of. And so, therefore, being on this retreat has really helped to really dive deeper beyond those layers in a way that’s very unique and that I can’t even describe. I’ll probably leave everyone else to go to the retreat, to experience it for themselves. And in fact, Diana, who’s on the retreat as well, you know, we were road trip buddies on the way down. And she said, I asked her, tell me a bit more about the retreat and she just said to me, You have to experience it for yourself. And so that was good for me, just to go in, move, an open mind, an open heart and experience it for yourself, because I’m sure everyone has their own experiments because everyone comes in with their own stories and their own needs for what they are looking to come out of the retreat with. And so I didn’t really want to compare, you know, just experience it, and go from there.

Candice Wu 22:28

So how have you found the Family Constellations work?

Soul Body Retreat Guest — Elena 23:02

Family Constellations is powerful. It’s amazing to know and experience that healing can happen, regardless of what is happening in the “real world” with the other players that might be involved in a family situation that my own exploration of those topics and experience of them is enough to heal. I think that’s really powerful. And again, it’s great to have such a safe space that allows me to feel vulnerable enough to really tap into a lot of those scenes, that on, maybe a more day to day basis can be really tough to look at, and tough to uncover in on earth, you know, particularly alone, and particularly without those sorts of tools and skills.

Soul Body Retreat Guest — Elena 23:57

So it’s been really powerful and quite unlike anything that I’ve experienced in, and, you know, traditional talk therapy, you said something earlier this morning about how that sort of work might be retraumatizing because you just use very verbal processes, and you kind of circled around the same stories, and nothing really changes, nothing’s transformed, and Constellation work feels transformative.

Candice Wu 24:27

And as I mentioned before, different women had different ideas and intentions, different desires coming into this retreat, here are some of those desires.

Soul Body Retreat Guest — Jana 24:37

I felt different, you know, before I came on the scene, that’s why I wanted to go. I had made some, like, really good changes. But now I feel like they’re much more clear. And I have a better kind of sense of who I am and what I want, and what’s important. And, you know, I just feel more empowered to, like, manifest the things that are important to me, you know, I’m on the verge of a new relationship. And I really wanted to deal with approaching that mindfully and in a way that I will lose myself and I feel, you know, that’s all kind of just happening very naturally, at the same time, like this kind of this new sort of philosophy on in, this new kind of desire of how to be and how to show up as my own individual self and maintain that. It’s very easy, it’s not like, I have to put forth the effort to be constantly like thinking about it. I think the work I did in the retreat has really helped me sort of solidify, that’s kind of my new way of being, without having to be super cognizant of that all the time, or feel like I’m trying to change myself. I feel like I’m just changed.

Candice Wu 25:07

And so what did you come in wanting?

Soul Body Retreat Guest — Sam 25:52

Yeah.

Candice Wu 25:53

And I have an idea, and I want to hear from you now.

Soul Body Retreat Guest — Sam 25:56

So I’m kind of on the cusp of, you know, a point in terms of my life, both professionally and personally. And, you know, I guess I’m looking for some extra clarity around how I navigate through that, and some blocks in the personal front. So that’s what I was looking to come into the retreat to, you know, learn some extra tools, do a lot more self-inquiry beyond what I already am aware of, you know, how to learn different methods,

Candice Wu 26:25

Yeah.

Soul Body Retreat Guest — Sam 26:27

Take things deeper as I said, be open to new techniques, and really just, you know, continue to evolve and expand myself, that’s really why I’m here. Always, one of the reasons why I go in these retreats is obviously to do Yoga because I need it right now. Work is very stressful. So there’s that piece where selfish now, you know, I want to relax, you know, come to a beautiful place like where we are now is just amazing, and enjoy that space and environment around us. But, you know, you have to engage with some like-minded souls also to expand.

Candice Wu 27:02

Absolutely. And have you, what do you feel will change for you as you move forward? And what will you take from the experience?

Soul Body Retreat Guest — Sam 27:11

Yeah, just, I guess, a new and different way of thinking. Just to add to my existing Sam toolkit

Candice Wu 27:20

Your existing what?

Soul Body Retreat Guest — Sam 27:21

Sam toolkit.

Candice Wu 27:25

I know that you’re in some transitions in your life, or possible ones are that they’re emerging with your purpose, with career, with who you are, how do you feel, or imagine that your life’s going to shift from what we’ve transformed here or on earth or tuned into?

Soul Body Retreat Guest — Elena 27:51

Yeah. I think the biggest thing for me is that regardless of the material outcomes of where I end up in my, in the next few years in my life, I’m considering a big career change and I think regardless of whether I, you know, quit the day job tomorrow and throw myself right into entrepreneur, into entrepreneurial practices, or, you know, kind of take a little bit of time to feel it out and dip my toes into it a little bit more slowly. I think that regardless of whatever I end up choosing, I know that I’ll be making that decision from a place of again, really self-love and self-respect. In the past, whenever I’ve thought about these, you know, big life decisions, there’s a lot of self-judgment that comes with that and a lot of fear and anxiety around not making the right decision and not feeling like I have enough to be successful in whatever I’m choosing. And it’s become really real for me over the last few days that I can choose and I can make anything I want to work and I really believe that for the first time, that really feels feasible and real and not just you know some mantra that I’m saying to myself over and over with empty meaning, so that’s huge for me. Yeah.

Candice Wu 29:20

That huge for anyone.

Soul Body Retreat Guest — Elena 29:21

Totally. So, I guess you could boil it down to a greater sense of competence and more energy and invigoration. I’ve also had the pleasure of, you know, meeting all sorts of really great, knowledgeable people on the retreat who have given me all sorts of really great practical advice.

Soul Body Retreat Guest — Elena 29:41

I am transitioning into practicing astrology full time, and of course, I do a lot of birth chart readings for individuals and, you know, starting to market myself for those skills. But I’ve had all sorts of people in the retreat suggests that I do things like YouTube videos and community workshops and free live readings on social media, and all sorts of cool strategies that I hadn’t considered. But now, I’m excited about and it doesn’t seem scary. It seems fun and exciting and full of possibilities.

Candice Wu 30:17

For some, the food was a very important aspect, especially Robin, who cooked for us. So let’s hear a little bit from Robin.

Candice Wu 30:28

So, I’d love to hear from you. How was it for you? And what did you, what was your intention coming in the retreat?

Robin Fisher 30:35

Yeah, thank you.

Robin Fisher 30:37

It was very interesting because I looked at it as you know, one of my first big adventures professionally. I’ve done cooking Ayurvedically the last three or four years but not at this scale. So it was definitely a challenge that I was excited to confront. But yeah, my intention was made clear when you asked what our intentions were on the first night, so that was very helpful for me to just kind of sit with, you know, yeah, why am I here just for a moment to slow down and think about it.

Robin Fisher 31:19

But yeah, in this time and place in our existence, I was, I really feel that I am drawn to nourish women and in all, that can mean mentally and physically and having the chance to kind of slowly help the women of the retreat kind of learn what it looks like, what it tastes like to eat seasonally, and holistically, was really special because once I’ve gained the, you know, the base skills of cooking, Ayurvedically, it really opened me up to, to work with my intuition and not necessarily be really strict with recipes, which I think most cooks understand that they have hit a new level when it’s not like, okay, it has to be perfect and it has to be this specific amount. And it’s more about being a part of the food and tasting, continuously tasting, feels like my essence was becoming more about food than I ever have experienced before. So that was really fun.

Candice Wu 32:42

Yeah, that’s really cool. I heard a lot of comments from the members of the retreat saying, Wow, I just loved how Robin was stirring that stew.

Candice Wu 32:55

She was like, doing it so deliciously and relaxed and it seemed like it really left an imprint on people.

Robin Fisher 33:04

Yeah, which is hilarious. Because, you know, I was just taking all of my energy to really stay focused on the task at hand. And that kind of freak out about what I had to do next for the next meal, like, you know, because I’m having a whole week of a meal. So think about it like, and just kind of play around with this fun to a certain degree. But there’s so much mental space for it. And so I really was able to sit back with my own breath work, which I also learned while I was learning Ayurvedic cooking.

Robin Fisher 33:49

Because I didn’t really do a lot of supportive breathing for most of my life. And so, knowing that breathing and body mechanics and all of the things that I learned that helps support me in massage therapy are, like, completely transferable to cooking. What energy do you bring to the room, it can be like, Oh, I have to cook for seven people all week. And it’s just like, so much work, or like, oh, what can I create here today, you know, and like, realizing that I had a certain amount of control over how I was going to experience the retreat. And it didn’t have to be something that happened to me, having body mechanics, it’s just, like, so supportive.

Robin Fisher 34:38

Just like, if you’re cutting up like a pile of vegetables, you know, multiple times a day, you know, and if you’re, like, all, like, super inward and not fully breathing, and just clenching. Like, all of that energy is going into the food as well. And I really didn’t want the anxiety that I can feel, in an unfamiliar situation to be ingested, took more focus, than I’ve ever really used to make sure that was, the nourishment and love was going into the food rather than fear and anxiety.

Candice Wu 35:21

Yeah, and it was cool what you did too was each meal, you made suggestions, or offerings that did go with each person’s dosha, or a suggestion that, if they’re feeling a little more heat, or if they’re this specific dosha, they might add in more cilantro to cool or, this, add in more of this to feel more warmed inside. So that was neat to have those choices, that information for everyone.

Robin Fisher 35:54

Yeah, I think that’s been the most helpful thing is understanding that you can make a base that’s good for everyone. And then having the sides that cool or heat or make it more oily or dry. And you can really adjust a dish for each person. And once they can understand what they need, they can do it themselves.

Candice Wu 36:23

And to give you a taste of what people tasted from the delicious meals, here are just some thoughts about how the food was incorporated into this retreat.

Soul Body Retreat Guest — Jana 36:37

Wonderful, because A, I mean, the person who created was with us, so it just kind of made it all the more sort of inclusive and knowing that we were eating and sort of this holistic, you know, based food that was coming from this place of love, it was just so good. And, you know, it was kind of, in this cold place and a lot of the food was very warm and filling and it just felt nourishing. I know that kind of was her goal was to create, like, this nourishing environment. And it really did, and it really made it because, you know, it’s also it’s a mind-body connection, right? So, imagine that you’re, you know, doing, being, you know, physically active, eating, filling your body with good, wholesome food, you know, that’s important too.

Soul Body Retreat Guest — Sam 37:26

It’s nice to have healthy, flavorful food that’s nourishing you. It’s like, now, she knew from a physical perspective but also, for me, like food is, I love food, so it’s always nourishing your soul as well. So you do a lot of deep inner work. And, you got Yoga, it’s almost like that food helps nourish that, you know, that fuel, that spiritual fuel. And I just think that, being Ayurvedic, food is very congruent with just the retreat.

Candice Wu 37:59

There are things about the retreat that just cannot be described and some of those things include the conversations and experiences that happened during the off times of the workshops, during leisure times or during dinner, and in-between spaces, the ones that were deeply profound, and integrating, and sometimes incredibly connecting. So here are some other thoughts from people about what they received on the retreat.

Candice Wu 38:30

What do you feel like you got out of it this year, you know, especially since you had all that experience last time, and you’ve grown so much from that?

Soul Body Retreat Guest — Jana 38:41

Yeah, well, the reason I wanted to go, and what I really do feel that I got out of it is that I feel like recently, I’ve made a couple of changes in my life. And sort of the way I’ve been looking at things and dealing with some kinds of stuff and specifically for me, I was kind of trying to close the doors and things of the past. And I really feel like, I got to do that in a very mindful and productive and supportive way, in a way that I could kind of come home, fresh and felt like I was ready to start kind of almost like a new chapter.

Candice Wu 39:12

Can you say more about, you know, what you were not so sure about and how it ended up being? Because I think it was a very unique experience.

Soul Body Retreat Guest — Jana 39:21

It definitely was. I mean, I think in general, a lot of Family Constellation works deals a lot with families and, you know, resolving, you know, maybe some unconscious issues you might have with your family systems. And I, that doesn’t happen to be an area of contention for me. I have, like, an amazing support system with my family and I didn’t feel like there were any specific areas I needed to address in that. And so, but you were able to really adjust it. So it was my internal family system that we focused on, which was really cool to sort of watch the different parts of myself come alive, which was really a unique spin on it that I’ve never seen, I’ve never experienced something like that, you know, either as a participant or as a center focus. And that it worked. It totally worked.

Candice Wu 40:11

Yeah, it was really cool to work on the different inner parts of you in that. And I think what also I got from what you wanted was, you wanted an empowering experience, you wanted something transformational that brought to forward and not looking backward and something to support you in feeling into this great pass that you were already launching yourself into.

Soul Body Retreat Guest — Jana 40:38

Yeah, totally. And I was a little nervous that, like, I’d have to go back and deal with the past. And I didn’t feel like that was really necessary. So I was like, how are we going to do this, but, you know, that’s what I think is so special about you, as a, you know, retreat leader, you’re so good at adjusting to the needs of each individual person on the trip and in honoring their experience and honoring their specific needs. Because obviously, I mean, we’re all different individual people going through a different individual thing, and it’s not a one size fits all model. And that, I think, is a very challenging thing to do. And you do it with so much ease and grace and respect. And it was really awesome.

Candice Wu 41:18

Okay, there’s just a little bit more. Elena, you said this, that speaking on this podcast was part of your process, or part of your growth step as well and this opportunity, and I heard you on Angel’s Landing the other day, “I have something to prove to myself.”

Soul Body Retreat Guest — Elena 41:33

Yeah.

Candice Wu 41:34

What is this about for you?

Soul Body Retreat Guest — Elena 41:36

I think a couple of things. So, I realized yesterday on this long, intense, strenuous hike that we were doing that I was very nervous about doing beforehand, how much of my life I live. I have lived dictated by fear and that experience of climbing up this steep mountain with nothing but chain supporting us at several points, was really an exercise in coming from a place beyond fear and being able to feel it and perhaps transcend it in a way and work through it and see it as constructive and a tool for growth.

Soul Body Retreat Guest — Elena 42:14

And one thing that has always been very scary for me is speaking publicly, communicating openly and vulnerably with others and so I really wanted to challenge myself to speak on this podcast segments and really wanted to challenge myself also to speak openly and vulnerably without any sort of notes or, you know, talking points or a script. And so that’s exciting for me. And I was just saying to Candice, as we pause the audio, that wasn’t so bad. It’s nice to be able to share like this.

Candice Wu 42:48

Yeah.

Soul Body Retreat Guest — Elena 42:49

It’s fun and I feel — it’s good to be able to express and be open about that and not scared.

Candice Wu 42:57

Wow, you really overcame. I don’t know if I like the word overcome and overcame?

Soul Body Retreat Guest — Elena 43:04

Sure.

Candice Wu 43:04

Maybe that’s it for you. I don’t know. But you moved through that fear.

Soul Body Retreat Guest — Elena 43:10

Right. I’m not scared of being scared any longer. I can work with fear. It can be — perhaps I’m not in a place yet where I am able to see it as a constructive tool. But it’s not obstructive any longer.

Candice Wu 43:25

It’s not a roadblock.

Soul Body Retreat Guest — Elena 43:26

Yes. Definitely.

Candice Wu 43:28

Something different, yet to be determined.

Soul Body Retreat Guest — Elena 43:30

Something to work with.

Candice Wu 43:31

Yeah.

Soul Body Retreat Guest — Elena 43:32

Yeah, in some way.

Candice Wu 43:33

Yeah. Thank you.

Candice Wu 43:36

Oh, my gosh, yeah. How have you felt here and what has been good for you here?

Soul Body Retreat Guest — Sam 43:40

Yeah, so obviously Candice as I was telling you that I just feel that, it’s almost like this whole retreat has synchronicity written all over it. And to be honest, I was just blown away by just the space that you were drawn to, the North Star Villa?

Candice Wu 43:59

True North.

Soul Body Retreat Guest — Sam 44:00

Oh, True North. Thank you.

Soul Body Retreat Guest — Sam 44:03

You know, in Zion National park. First of all, the surrounding is just stunning, you’re surrounded by the mountains. You know, the view you wake up to every morning. And the fact that it’s surrounded by crystals, there’s just this beautiful energy about this place. So much love has gone into this environment by the owners. And that kind of warms my heart, it’s got a lot of character, a lot of love. And I think that, the love of the owners that they’ve brought into this place kind of exudes that energy, right. And so, therefore, it’s a really perfect environment for you to hold your retreat. It had everything, all the props you could have imagined, you know, drums, crystals, wind chimes, you know, a labyrinth, the, you know, a medicine wheel, it’s just, it’s almost like you had visualized your perfect retreat location and the universe delivered it to you in the middle of a national state park. It was just, pretty mind-blowing.

Candice Wu 45:09

What I found is that the space for deeper transformation can feel safe, given the right circumstances, when you feel that you’re held in a safe space, that all emotions are held in this space, and also supported, and when we acknowledge and respect everything that comes through no matter how “weird” people find it to be, which to me, nothing’s really that weird. But I really appreciated what people said about the safety of the retreat and what they felt in relation to me and others on the retreat. Here are some of those thoughts.

Candice Wu 45:47

What have you been doing on this retreat that’s been meaningful for you?

Soul Body Retreat Guest — Elena 45:51

The retreat has been a really good opportunity for me to rest, connect, and reprioritize. I’ve had a really great time meeting everyone else that’s here, really great time exploring nature and exploring the connection to nature, reintegrating with myself, and learning about all different sorts of healing modalities and energy work, and picked up a lot of really practical skills that I can bring back for my own personal use when I go back home. I really appreciate that there’s been a space that’s cultivated here, that’s really special and that’s really unique and that really can’t be replicated elsewhere, that’s really magical. But we’ve also been learning, yeah, all sorts of different skills and practices that can be used in everyday life. So a really great mix of both.

Candice Wu 46:46

But what have you found as a tool or thing that you felt like, yeah, I can really take that home with me to use in my daily life?

Soul Body Retreat Guest — Elena 46:56

Yeah, I think the biggest, single most practical skill is probably the resourcing technique that you went over with us this morning, actually.

Soul Body Retreat Guest — Elena 47:06

So I’m someone that tends to get very, you know, overwhelmed and activated in stressful situations. And I tend to go to a place of just getting stuck in negative emotions, and feeling really down on myself because of that. And I think the resourcing technique that we talked about is really cool because it’s something that you can use, regardless of where you are, regardless of what’s going on around you. And it’s something that you can really do for yourself. And I think that’s been a big theme throughout the retreats.

Soul Body Retreat Guest — Elena 47:42

It’s bigger than, than self-love, I think, which is something that gets thrown around a lot in all different sorts of practices. I would say that, really, what I’ve honed in on the past few days, has been self-respect and trust in oneself, knowing that with something like, resourcing, I don’t need to go elsewhere. I don’t need to turn to anything else or another practitioner, but that I have all the tools I need within myself, and whatever environment I’m in to nourish myself and bring myself to a better place when I’m feeling activated. So I’m really optimistic about the way that I’m going to be able to use that going forward.

Soul Body Retreat Guest — Elena 48:23

Another really big and related theme that has become really real for me over the past few days, is coming from a place of self-love and nourishment in resourcing, and taking myself to the next level at any healing, I again, would tend to use a very sort of a brace of approach and almost tried to, you know, beat a lot of different messages into myself, which, you know, is counterintuitive or counterproductive, I should say. And I think that for the first time in my life, I’m really feeling the impacts of coming from a place of nourishment and love for oneself.

Candice Wu 49:02

Oh wow.

Soul Body Retreat Guest — Elena 49:04

You know, I’ve heard those words in a lot of different situations, and in a lot of different contexts. But it’s never really resonated within me. But a lot of the very body-centered exercises that we’ve done, and just, again, creating the space for reflection, and I think safe boundary-pushing has been really helpful in getting me there.

Candice Wu 49:27

Is there anything else you want to share?

Soul Body Retreat Guest — Jana 49:30

I just feel so happy and lucky and honored to get to do these types of things with you, especially because, like, you know, we do have this unique relationship. And that we have done a lot of work together in the past, and we saw each other, like, weekly, we have this sort of very traditional kind of working relationship. And then, you know, you left to go travel the world and pursue your dreams, and do all these amazing things that I didn’t know that I would get the opportunity to continue doing some of the amazing stuff that I do. And this way of doing it together and get to, you know, take a couple of days every year and get to spend time with you. And, working on some of the most meaningful pieces of the work that we’ve done together is just such a cool way to kind of honor it, and maintain the best parts of getting to work with you. So I’m just so happy that you do it. And I hope you keep doing them.

Candice Wu 50:19

Thank you. I’m so grateful that we get to do that too. It’s really cool to have that kind of, that different kind of relationship at this point. And we’ve gone through so much together, and I’ve seen you through so much of your growth. And it’s so exciting to see where you are now.

Candice Wu 50:41

What makes a retreat like this, a meaningful experience, or what makes this different for you?

Soul Body Retreat Guest — Jana 50:46

Well, it is totally, it was like, five days of intense focus on it. And I just remember that on the plane ride home, I was just journaling, like, as much as possible, and trying to capture as much of like, the feeling, and the emotions and the insights and all the stuff because I knew that once I got back to regular life, like, I’d remember it, and I would hold it, but regular life what’s going to happen and I was going to get busy with work and I was going to get distracted and stresses we’re going to happen. And, you know, it was really a way to, you know, because even doing, you know, therapy or, you know, this type of work, you know, mix into your everyday life is obviously very helpful. But to kind of take this time out to specifically focus on it makes it so much more powerful. And especially again, being in this place that we were, we had, we were just in this like magical place in the desert with the mountains and crystals and drums and like it just turned into this beautiful spiritual experience that — many people don’t, I think, have an opportunity to really immerse themselves in like that. And that’s, I think the difference is very immersive, but not in an overwhelming way. And not in, you know, we have downtime, we have time to go hike, gave me a time to hang out, we have time to read. It wasn’t like, it was like, all like deep work all the time, you know, it was a nice balance and really good.

Candice Wu 52:08

Is there anything else you want to share about what has been meaningful for you, or what nuggets you’ve received or what pieces of your unearthing came up?

Soul Body Retreat Guest — Sam 52:22

Just very humbling, that everyone is just so willing to be their authentic selves. And just to open up to the experience. I think you can only really benefit fully from the retreat if you have the courage and the willingness to open your heart and share yourself with others. Right? And so learn from each other. And I think that’s what’s, had a deeper meaning to the exercise that we’ve been doing is the fact that you have created that self-space and that safe space that everyone has felt so comfortable and invested to get in the best they can from it, you know, emotionally as well, you know, we’ve all cried and laughed. And I think that you can only do that when you’re spinning safe in the group that you’re showing that space with. And often you have a retreat leader that’s leading the retreat in a way that encourages them. So thank you.

Candice Wu 53:19

You’re welcome. And thank you so much.

Soul Body Retreat Guest — Sam 53:21

Yeah.

Candice Wu 53:23

I appreciate so much all the women who came on this retreat. I’m just so touched by the experiences that we had and the gratitude that I have for how magical the experience was, how beautiful and how healing and how open we all were with each other is just something that I will never forget.

Candice Wu 53:45

And I want to send a special thanks to Robin as well, as part of that. Her intention was to nourish women and she absolutely did that. She was wonderful and I look forward to working with her again.

Candice Wu 53:58

And I also want to give a shout out to Chris Spiegl, who is my partner, he was on the retreat as well. And in between the boundaries of our work, he was running errands or building an upside-down fire, which is a really cool thing. It’s a fire upside down. Also, he was taking the official photos for the retreats and supporting the tech behind the scenes, as well as creating the website design for the retreat all together and all of the production beforehand.

Candice Wu 54:38

I also want to thank the Earth, mother nature, and sky for holding the space, the physical space for healing, the villa itself, and the owners of the villa, Hank and Angie, all the angels, spirits and guides, as well as ancestors of each of the people that were involved in the retreats and came on the retreat for all of that was part of our work. And it gave away to the messages that each person received for themselves, and the healing that happened inside of their beings and in their bodies.

Candice Wu 55:16

I also want to give a shout out to all the people that supported in some way, whether that was sharing the retreat with a friend, a sister, a loved one, or a client or colleague, thank you so much. I appreciate all of the thoughts that you’ve sent my way about the retreat, the good energy, and the referrals. All of that made this possible, and I could not have asked for more.

Candice Wu 55:41

So as we close the podcast today, I want to offer just one more thought about retreats.

Candice Wu 55:47

A retreat is so nourishing because you can immerse yourself over time, take time for yourself — if the schedule allows for that which this retreat was specifically designed that way to integrate your experiences — to have movement and leisure time, to have deep meaningful connection and the space to go very deeply with exactly what’s happening in your life, and to be supported in embodied transformation around that and loving yourself. This retreat reminds me that immersion experiences like this have just an incredible capacity to bring so much life and enjoyment and healing.

Candice Wu 56:36

I encourage you whether it’s my retreat in the future or another retreat that catches your eye to try something like that. Because if it’s the right fit, it can be incredibly powerful.

Candice Wu 56:49

If you’d like to stay tuned to future retreats from me, whether that’s a couple’s or individual or women’s retreat, you can stay posted on my website Candicewu.com or sign up for my newsletter at CandiceWu.com/embody.

Candice Wu 57:05

Wishing you well and just sending all of this peaceful, mostly peaceful, energy from Spain. Just looking out at the cityscape now, it’s dark, you’ve heard the dogs around me. I hope that wasn’t too bothersome. But this is just part of the noise set that’s here where I am. Thanks so much for joining me and I’ll see you next time on the Embody Podcast.