Candice Wu 0:00

In this podcast, we have Nick Werber back on the show, yay! In this episode, we talk all about intention setting and the process that brings in our lives, what it means and how to move through, as well as where our family systems intentions, our ancestries’ intentions come in, and how to respect those.

Candice Wu 0:22

Find out if Nick and I are the black sheep of our families and whether there’s a black sheep in you.

Candice Wu 0:30

Hello and welcome. You’re listening to the Embody Podcast, a show about remembering and embodying your true nature, inner wisdom, Embodied Healing, and self-love. My name is Candice Wu, and I’m a holistic healing facilitator, intuitive coach, and artist sharing my personal journey of vulnerability, offering meditations and guided healing support and having co-creative conversations with healers and wellness practitioners from all over the world.

Candice Wu 1:06

The podcast is supported by so many of you out there listening and people who either quietly donate some money or give their feedback and their encouragement. Thank you all so much. And if you’d like to support the podcast in a more specific way, there are two options right now that are very interesting. You can sign up for a periodic personal meditation that I record personally for you based on your intentions and based on my intuition of what you’re sharing and what might be needed. And that can be a one time experience, an mp3 that I send to you, or a gift to somebody, or by subscription where you get that periodically.

Candice Wu 1:53

Or, if you’re interested in something that has more connection and contact with me, you can join my Embodied Group healing call. These very small groups offer a compassionate and embodied soul support space for anything you’re going through in life. So if you’d like to learn more about that, feel free to go to my website at CandiceWu.com/support.

Candice Wu 2:19

Following this episode will be a special recording by Michael Picucci of an adaptation of Bert Hellinger’s writing. So Michael Picucci is Nick Werber’s mentor and friend and fellow healer. And he speaks about him in the first episode that we have together that we recorded together last year and in this episode, so you can hear a little bit more about Michael Picucci and Bert Hellinger is the founder of Family Constellations.

Candice Wu 2:52

Both of these beautiful people and healers passed away last year and so what a lovely experience to have this on the podcast for all of you to experience. And, Nick was such a close person to Michael, that he’s offered to share this on the podcast and knows that Michael would really love for others to experience it. The offering in this meditation is called consenting and it’s lovely to inspire, bringing consent to people around you, situations, agreeing to what’s happening, and what your human experience is, such that it brings new possibilities or allows ease and brings the next unfolding. So be sure to tune into that later this week or following this episode, depending on when you tune in. And without further ado, here is Nick.

Candice Wu 3:58

Not really sure how to jump in Nick, this is your second time on the podcast. It’s so cool to have you here.

Nick Werber 4:04

Yeah, I’m really excited to be back again. I know, you know, since last week did that first podcast I’ve gotten, it’s surprising. It’s people, you know, every so often. It’s like, “Oh, I found you through, you know, Candice Wu and I love Candice.” So, I’m really excited to be back because, yeah, a lot of people love that first one, at least they tell me, so.

Candice Wu 4:27

Yeah, I get a lot of great feedback from it, too. And people really have enjoyed what you have to say, and enjoyed our conversation, and some people could just feel like that we were friends. And that’s so true. I just so appreciate you, Nick.

Candice Wu 4:43

And the first podcast we did was maybe about a year and a half ago. And for those of you who haven’t listened to it, or maybe want to review, it’s at Candicewu/nick and it’s also on your website. Right, Nick?

Nick Werber 5:02

True. I think it is. Yeah.

Candice Wu 5:04

At nwerber.com. And, Nick, can you just tell the listeners out there a little bit about who you are and what you do, just as a refresher?

Nick Werber 5:17

Sure.

Nick Werber 5:19

So, I call myself, you know, the label that I use as an integrative coach and a healer. And really, what that means to me is that I just, I pull in many different modalities into my work. And some of the big ones are Family Constellations work, which is all about, you know, this work of how so much of what we’re facing and experiencing didn’t start with us. You know that the context that we live in, has a huge effect on who we are so that can apply to family. It can also apply to our nation and our culture as well as our, actually our ancestral history of these things that long tail of history actually has a real effect on who we are.

Nick Werber 6:08

And then for me, all my work is really on this, founded on this bedrock of somatic trauma work, specifically a modality called focalizing. Which is, you know, really just the best practices I think of any time you’re working with trauma, that overwhelm is the enemy and you might hear this just in the way that I speak and the way I approach things is that just I think the best healing is done in this very stable, gentle space where people can feel safe and, you know, in addition to that, I also have a bunch of training and hypnosis.

Nick Werber 6:49

Sometimes the way I say it is that you know, the work is, all of it is focused on, you know, we have these very deep, unconscious parts of ourselves, as far as we know, we might only use somewhere between 1 to 3% of our brain and consciously, I’m sorry, only 1 –3 percent of our mind is conscious. And so all the work I do is really about working with the unconscious and how God affects so much of what we’re experiencing.

Candice Wu 7:22

Beautiful.

Candice Wu 7:24

And, Nick, I think I told you this before, but someone recently told me that you and I could have been brother and sister in a past life or siblings. And that just makes so much sense to me on many levels, which I’m not going to get into now, totally, but that just feels true in some ways, we’re like siblings in this healing, embodied work, and that’s part of what I so value about your work, how much of the experience in the process that you bring forward, that I love as well, and do my own versions of. But I also deeply value the way that you use your language and words to key into very important and relevant topics that we’re all dealing with in some fashion that get people, it like creeps in sideways in new ways, fresh, very refreshing way of speaking and writing that leave an echo in me. So thank you.

Nick Werber 8:49

Yeah, it’s an addition to the practice. I’m absolutely a writer at heart and love writing about the subject and I love that we were brother and sister in a past life. I believe it. I’m sorry, I interrupted you maybe in that past life I, you know, as an older brother, maybe I spoke over you I don’t know.

Candice Wu 9:12

Well, what I was told specifically was that in the past life, I always lived in your shadow. And I felt like, I could never like, come out of the shadow next to you. And so I was struggling with the feelings of like not being good enough in relation to you and always trying to win at that game but never winning.

Nick Werber 9:39

Oh God, it is sad.

Candice Wu 9:41

It is sad.

Nick Werber 9:45

I’m sorry.

Candice Wu 9:46

No. Yeah, you better be.

Nick Werber 9:49

Yeah.

Candice Wu 9:52

And just for all of you listening out there, the reason this came up was that, I, and I think I told you, Nick, I would read your posts and then I would just get, I would feel so, like, jealous to the point of feeling bad about myself, not the kind of jealousy that says, “ooh, this is exciting, this challenges me to grow,” which is probably more where I am at this point. But when I was getting triggered by your wonderful post, I was like, I’m not enough and like, now I need to be doing what Nick’s doing and I need to write like that and I could hear myself and I was like, “Why? Why am I? Why?”

Candice Wu 10:41

So it really helps to bring that into the light and for the emotions to move around it. But yeah, stop speaking over me, Nick. You hardly do that. No. You were just saying before we started recording that this is a totally different experience already and I’d love for you to share why with everyone.

Nick Werber 11:11

Well, last time, basically, I think we spent the first half an hour after we connected just working on why the microphone was so loud. And I, you know, I live in New York City and so there’s always some kind of construction or weirdness. Like, even this call I, you know, this podcast, I purposely asked you to do earlier in the afternoon, because when it gets close to two or three, there’s going to be school buses outside my window, you know, backing up and beeping and all that.

Candice Wu 11:39

The beeping yup. And you’ve got your mic from back in the day when you used to record music.

Nick Werber 11:46

That’s true. Yes. Yeah. I have the microphone that NPR uses and it’s really beautiful, and I pulled it out of the closet and it was dusty and there was something sitting on it so the phone is all deformed, but it sounds good.

Nick Werber 12:05

Yeah.

Candice Wu 12:08

Well, I made a big mistake, Nick, when you emailed me last night about some of the topics you wanted to talk about today on the show, I read it at 10 pm, your email and I, and then I couldn’t sleep for like four hours. So it’s really all your fault. I mean, that I read the email. Yeah, it was like 10 pm and I’m reading your email, and you’re bringing up the topics that you’re interested in, so I’ll just say some of them because I think they’re fabulous and that is what kept me up until like, two in the morning because I was just like thinking about these topics and your thoughts about them and so excited to hear from you about intention and the intersection of family and family history in regards to our intention, or how they weave in, what we reject and what we resist and how that impacts us and stays with us. You wanted to talk about the beautiful mystery and meaning behind who were born to in this life and what that we’re alive perspective can look like versus a dead perspective. And, then a little bit about narcissists versus empath relationships and black sheep, and also this misnomer of letting go of something or letting, letting things go. So, yes, obviously.

Nick Werber 13:42

When you put it like that, now it’s like, “Whoa, that’s a lot!”

Candice Wu 13:45

Right? I was like, boom, my head was like, Okay, yeah, I get it. Also, it was like getting back in the game of life after the holidays and I kind of just went into a cave.

Candice Wu 14:00

So before we jump in, you know, I was wondering, some of the words I wrote down for myself yesterday when I was just gathering myself trying to come back into my regular sort of schedule, as regular as that can be. But some of the words I wrote down were cave, because that was emerging cave and emerging out of the cave, surrender, the need for trust, clarity, but also not knowing at the same time, and then beauty and quiet. And I wonder, Nick, what words are popping up for you in your experience of life at the moment?

Nick Werber 14:41

I think flow is one, shame is another, connection, and I think the word, it’s almost like, expanse comes up because I feel, you know, I, as you know, Candice, I got married in September this past year and there’s, you know, so much an event like that kind of focuses you in such a powerful way. And, you know, right afterward it’s kind of holiday season comes through and now I feel like there’s this sort of expanse so now what do I do with the rest of my life?

Candice Wu 15:24

With the rest of your life? Yeah.

Candice Wu 15:26

It’s like, that’s a huge expanse. Yeah, I can imagine, right? Like having a wedding, you said focuses you so much. It’s like all your energies seem to culminate to that moment and all the people in your life at least from what I, you know what I saw of your wedding, and then coming into this I don’t know, quiet space or open space.

Nick Werber 15:26

Exactly.

Nick Werber 16:01

It’s open, and it’s playful. It’s like, I choose my adventure now. And I mean, I chose my adventure before too, but you choose it and then everything becomes very singularly focused. I feel now there’s a little bit more playfulness with each day, I can choose my adventure. And it doesn’t always have to relate to a particular goal either.

Candice Wu 16:25

Sounds really nice. I like that.

Nick Werber 16:28

Yeah, it is nice.

Candice Wu 16:29

Yeah. And then you said shame, connection. And there’s one other word I just forgot the first word.

Nick Werber 16:39

I think flow.

Candice Wu 16:40

Flow. That’s right. Yeah, do you want to say any more about this before we tune into the topics we have for today?

Nick Werber 16:48

You know, I feel like they’re going to come through in whatever we talk about. Because you know, I think speaking like this is a co-creative process. and whatever is living within us in this moment comes through. I’m borrowing a little bit from writers that I like and I recently a little bit of a tangent but I’ve been watching a little bit of Mad Men again and then interested in Matthew Weiner and you know, he basically said it’s every episode is what he was experiencing, you know when he wrote it. I think that’s true for most creation.

Candice Wu 17:31

Yeah, that makes sense. Where the energy comes through somewhere. So yeah, speaking of, oh, what were you going to say?

Nick Werber 17:41

I was going to say, I think I feel a sense that I’d like to talk about intention a little bit because it is, you know, new year’s time and it’s just so, I think it’s top of mind for so many people right now.

Candice Wu 17:54

Yeah, I was feeling that too. Yeah, did you create an intention for the year or for this time frame?

Nick Werber 18:01

I created several intentions and, you know, I found it actually reminded me how much I love intention that for me when I’m just working, kind of getting through my day doing tasks on a, you know, an hourly or a weekly basis, you know, whatever that kind of goal-line is, I start to lose track of meaning. You know, I feel like I’m kind of floating and I’m not sure where I’m going or, you know, maybe people relate to this where you just kind of realized, like, why am I doing this actually. And intention, I think, sitting down and actually writing down you know, here’s what I think is a life well spent, my time well spent and it’s not that I didn’t create a bucket list it was, you know, my intentions are a little bit more short term than that, but there’s just something very powerful to collecting yourself and in writing down, you know, here’s what I think is a good use of my time, here’s what I want to give to other people, here’s what I want to receive, and I couldn’t believe how much better I felt when I just did that simple process.

Candice Wu 19:27

Yeah, it’s, to me that’s actually such a playful process too, it’s like, I get this chance to gather myself and see what does feel meaningful and to clarify it. And I have felt that power of not just the writing down, but for me, I can use visioning like, seeing it in my mind and kind of carving out that vision in my mind that it’s not always so cut and dry like, I’m going to look at a vision of what I desire, what I’m looking forward into. But it’s this feeling sense that comes with seeing bits and pieces of where things are going for me and, or where I’d like them to go and it’s really fun. It’s like playing with consciousness, playing with myself.

Nick Werber 20:22

And I think when I hear you say that, you’re getting at something that I think is very important about intention, which is that intention is really supported when we find ways of moving beyond our just goal setting, kind of thinking mind. And so visioning is one way, when I do it, intention setting, I really tap into my body awareness quite a bit. And so it’s, you know, I think we have so much intelligence that is beyond our task-oriented mind and that intelligence is so important when it comes to, I think finding intentions that are valuable to us and valuable to the world and, you know, knowing, like you said, seeing what’s emerging ahead of you.

Candice Wu 21:14

I love that and when you say you use your body awareness and your body intelligence, what exactly do you do?

Nick Werber 21:24

So I actually have been playing with and this is what I used and this most recent intention setting process, a very specific way of working with body awareness, which is that I sit and I write the intentions, one intention per piece of paper. And then I actually put them out on the floor, and then stand on each one and embody the intention. And I’m sure this will sound very familiar to Candice in terms of Family Constellation process. You just step into the intention. Just close your eyes, tune in, and I do this with my clients as well. And it’s amazing how quickly just you get that little sense of Ooh, that’s, you know, it’s not the next five years, it’s actually in the next ten years I’d like to receive this or, maybe, you know, you start to suddenly get really strong senses of the wording of what you wrote. And, if you just connect with your body a little bit, you can feel, am I feeling contracted here? Am I feeling expanded here? Does it feel like a yes, does it feel like a no. And so that’s, I like things that get you up off the couch and connecting with things. Not only, you know, in your mind’s eye, but also in a physical way.

Candice Wu 22:45

Yeah, it brings more of us into the picture, alive into the experience. I love that.

Nick Werber 22:56

You know, this is, I have to give a little bit of a nod to one of my teachers, a person named Dr. Michael Pecucci, but he would say at this time, in a conversation like this, that we should set an intention for this conversation.

Candice Wu 23:14

Okay. We are.

Nick Werber 23:17

And I just thought that came to me it’s maybe a good idea.

Candice Wu 23:22

Okay. Yeah, why don’t we take a moment and feel that? Yeah.

Nick Werber 23:41

That’s funny that you said feeling because it definitely feels like a feeling to me actually.

Candice Wu 23:47

What are you getting?

Nick Werber 23:51

So, to me, the intention, and just for kind of our listeners, so there’s the intention that we might think we want to have at the end. But there’s a level of intention that’s kind of, it’s like, what already is there, asking to be connected to.

Nick Werber 24:08

And so that’s what the second part is what I’m speaking to when I say this, that for me, when I just think about the intention for this conversation, there is a fullness in my body. It feels like this feeling that I get when I’m like, wow, I listened to something that I’m going to be thinking about for a couple days and processing and referencing and it’s kind of that feeling of, I’m glad I spent time doing that.

Candice Wu 24:36

I love what you said, like what is already there and asking to be connected to and I find that when I tune in that way and listen, it’s a more aligned intention, like it emerges, it reveals itself. It’s already living. And yeah, I love the feeling that you’re bringing up the fullness, the feeling of the listening to something here.

Candice Wu 25:15

I got the words, being extremely honest with myself and outward, outwardly. And then also playing with the ideas that the concepts that we have put on the table like playing with you, Nick. And I think in your email to me about these topics you said, feel free to disagree or feel free to, you know, argue with this or something. And I was like, Yeah, I’m going to, let’s see what happens. And I could you know, we, just the idea of play and curiosity and what emerges out of that sort of challenge to on both sides, I think, but as more of a collaborative play.

Nick Werber 26:12

It’s, you know, it’s serendipitous almost that you know, honest and being outward, it’s funny, I, my partner Jen was sitting in our kitchen and I was talking about this podcast a little bit. I said to her that I think I’m going to be a little edgier this time. And I’m just going to say what I feel and, you know, maybe it might turn some people off. I don’t know.

Candice Wu 26:37

Bring it on.

Nick Werber 26:41

Yeah exactly.

Candice Wu 26:42

Yeah, I want to play with that, the edginess? Cool. So do we have our intention? Or was that just more, was it? I didn’t know if I heard a specific intention from you or just a feeling you’d like to experience. Is that? Am I getting it right?

Nick Werber 27:02

It was a little bit nebulous. I think the intention is to share something, both between you and I, that provides a sense of fullness provides a sense of, you know, a gift that you can sit with and play with, even, you know, for a time after this conversation and then I’m including the third player in the room, you know, the audience that maybe they can experience something that they can play with and sit with them, digest for a few days that gives them a sense of fullness as well.

Candice Wu 27:43

Yes, thank you for clarifying that. That’s great.

Candice Wu 27:48

And just inviting people to play with, play with these topics and disagree with us, or find where there’s a new opening and you know, I’m just saying that out loud because that also helps me do that. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you, Michael Picucci as well.

Nick Werber 28:11

Yeah.

Candice Wu 28:14

And just honoring him.

Nick Werber 28:19

He’s a major inspiration for everything I do. Funny, you know, on his website, when he was alive, it would, you know, you’d see Ph.D. psychologist but if you met him, he was very just quick to laugh with a very raspy voice, flamboyant gay man, who was a shaman and an energy worker, and you know, I think of him almost as the archetype of the Joker. You know, the one that kind of laughs and tells jokes but if you really think about what he’s saying deeply it’s, maybe the most honest, most real person in the room and a lot of ways. So there’s my little nod to Michael. Thank you, Michael.

Candice Wu 29:12

I wish I had the opportunity to meet him in person.

Candice Wu 29:18

So, intention, what comes up as you play with the concept or the idea of intention?

Nick Werber 29:34

What’s sitting with me about intention? You know, I have this community of healers and intuitive people that I love that are around me and both connected to them online and through some of the workshop spaces and communities here in Brooklyn that I’m in and everyone’s talking about intention. And I think the thing that for me, you know, I don’t think it’s touched on enough that I’d love. I think it’s helpful to acknowledge that, you know, intention is a process.

Nick Werber 30:11

When we set intentions, It’s not just that we write something down, and then we put it away in a shelf. And, you know, we hope sometime a year from now it’s going to end up on our doorstep.

Nick Werber 30:26

For me, and in my experience, and from my clients experience, it’s an active process. And one of the clearest ways that it’s very, really active is that I believe the moment you set an intention, what you’re really doing is saying, I’m ready to see what’s been standing in the way all along.

Nick Werber 30:48

You know, when you say, I want to find a relationship or I want to be making more money, it’s incredible how you know in the next few weeks or months people suddenly are playing in that shadow we stuff, those barriers that have been around for a really long time, that are directly related to these topics and, and I see that actually as a positive, it’s kind of, you know, whatever you want to call it. And, you know, universal intelligence or just the way the universe works is that it puts, it brings a barrier too and then it’s like, okay, now here’s your work. Now bring in your resources, you know who’s maybe, it’s a therapist or healer that you work with or just being a part of your community. You know, you have to resource yourself and actually go through it.

Nick Werber 31:44

For Christmas, I just got to my partner purchase me a sweater that says, “the only way around is through”

Candice Wu 31:54

Nice reminder…

Nick Werber 31:56

Yes, and that’s what this is. He set the intention to see the barrier and I think people don’t realize that happens. And so when they find the barriers, you know, when they come up against suddenly like, it just feels so hopeless and there’s so much doubt or I feel so much fear to go out and do that thing that I want to do, you start to, they might start to think, oh, maybe that’s a sign that it’s not really meant for me or you know, this isn’t going to happen or it’s not the right time. And it’s like no, like that, there it is, like you are now being given the exact wall you have to chip away at and your intentions on the other side of it.

Nick Werber 32:39

So I think what I want to, if there’s one thing people take away from this conversation, it’s that, to see intention as a process and to not be discouraged by the barriers, because that’s exactly what that processes, I believe meant to do is to bring up the barriers

Candice Wu 33:00

Yeah, I’m ready to see what’s been standing in the way all along. I love the words you expressed about that, it’s just such a nice statement. And we don’t always think about that exact position or approach when we’re creating something or like listening or creating something we want for ourselves.

Candice Wu 33:26

And I just think it’s such an important thing what you’re bringing up because, yes, so often, I’ve seen it in myself and clients everywhere. We find the resistance, the thing that scares us the most about it, and then we turn around and think, well, maybe that’s just not where we’re supposed to go because it’s scary or because it’s going to bring us some discomfort or let us look at something that we have not wanted to look at perhaps, and I see exactly what you’re saying too, in the way that barrier comes up and says, okay, you want this, you know, you want what’s behind this. You need this to come along. This barrier is the place where you’ve resisted or avoided, there’s an energy here and when you transmute this, when you transform or look through, go through it, as you say, instead of around it, that energy will come with you and support you in the end if you make it through. And we need it, we need it to go forward into the next thing. We need that expansiveness because that’s what we wanted to begin with. It’s going to bring us more. Thank you for bringing that forward.

Nick Werber 34:55

It’s almost like to give yourself credit. You know?

Candice Wu 34:58

Yes.

Nick Werber 34:59

There’s a reason you might not be making a million dollars a year, it’s because it takes hard, there’s a lot, there’s hard work, there are barriers there, there’s a lot to bust through. Now, if you come from a poor family, you’re leaving behind whole generations of a certain way of life. You know, it’s if you want that, if you want that intention, if you want to connect to that intention, there are some barriers you have to bust through and you know, that takes work. And so it makes sense that you maybe hadn’t connected to it yet. Again, you need the energy, you need the resources to be able to do that.

Candice Wu 35:41

Yeah, that just made me think, well, maybe that’s why people goal set instead of intention set? Because, I mean, maybe it also has a crossover, you know, even when we goal set there’s something that’s going to come up… but for people out there that are like FUI to intentions, like, I don’t want to deal with intentions or I’m not doing that. I’m giving yourself credit. Yeah, that it can be scary to set an intention because of the wave of things that might come in succession after that, on the pathway towards what you’re looking at.

Nick Werber 36:23

Exactly. And that’s why, you know, it’s also beautiful that if you set a really big intention and you’re not ready for it, you can stop.

Candice Wu 36:31

Yeah.

Nick Werber 36:32

You know?

Candice Wu 36:32

Yeah.

Nick Werber 36:32

You can take a pause.

Candice Wu 36:35

Yeah, I just love this. I have this image in my mind of a child, you know, I mean, I’ve been there standing on the edge of like a step and feeling like I want to jump down three steps. You know, I’ve done two. I’m going to jump three steps now. And I have this, I guess, maybe this is sort of archetypal image of an adult or someone older, saying just do it, go, just go. And like kind pushing you to go with their energy and with their encouragement. But there’s something incredibly beautiful about standing there on the edge and finding from within your own sense of I’m ready, or I’m ready to take the jump, and I don’t know what it’s going to bring doesn’t mean I’m ready and this is going to be easy. But that sort of leaning forward and being like, oh, maybe not, and kind of leaning back and playing at that edge, instead of just bypassing that and jumping without some sort of internal choice.

Candice Wu 37:52

And a friend mentioned to me this video, which I still haven’t seen, but I’ve been meaning to and I’ll link it to our show notes. I think this artist just recorded people at a diving board like high dive, and they were doing that, they would come to the edge. And some people would turn around and just never come back. And some people would like to stand there for an hour or something or like a period of time and go forward and back and maybe make the dive but it wasn’t really even about the dive I think. It’s just the process of us being human and being in that experience.

Nick Werber 38:36

And I think that I actually have seen that diving board video. So funny. YouTube is sort of my little guilty pleasure when I have downtime, so I’ve found it somehow. But to follow that metaphor a little bit, you know, I find with intention setting, we set an intention, or I set an intention and then it becomes, you know, okay, I started to receive it, you know, for instance, I had intentions about working with more and more people in group settings. And so I’m getting these group workshops are coming forward, they’re doing really well. And then it’s like, I recently, in the past year I was off or, in the past few months, I got the opportunity to work into this retreat in Mexico, which I’m sure we’ll talk a little bit more about, but you know, you can hit that moment of suddenly, Whoo, it’s like, it’s a much, it’s a bigger thing, it’s going to be more of a commitment, more of a commitment to the people coming. And then suddenly, it’s like the diving board’s too high. I don’t know about this one.

Candice Wu 39:44

Yeah, I asked way more of you.

Nick Werber 39:47

And I think those are, that’s really common that you get on a roll and it’s like, where’s your, what’s your tolerance and I’m not saying, you know, push through everything either. You know, I respect that tolerance level, that there’s, you know, that’s part of this work. That’s one of the barriers is fear, you know that you might come up against the fear, the fear of success, the fear of, you know, maybe speaking in front of a large audience or, you know, whatever your intentions include.

Candice Wu 40:18

Yeah, and this kind of loops me back to the beginning when you said that we can just get on a roll, or we can be in motion and wonder why we’re doing it or is this what we even wanted? And I think that that’s really challenging, it can be a really challenging place when the bigger thing comes, the bigger diving board or whatever it is, and you’re on the roll of the intention that you once had set. And there’s that place of, Okay, now it’s, I think that diving board is too high or this is really scary. This is a lot and it’s asking a lot of me. And when we feel into that place, it can sometimes mean this is no longer what I wanted or this is, wait, where have I gone? Is this what I wanted? And is it what I want now? And distinguishing that from the fear of the expansion and capacity, what it means to step forward and continue on? That can be a tricky place. Do you find that?

Nick Werber 41:34

Absolutely. When I hear you talk about that, I think we’re really connecting in some way to just the human condition, which is, you know, in some ways, we’re walking down a cave and there’s a light at the end of the tunnel, maybe, but we just have no idea what’s there and what’s ahead of us and there’s a lot of mystery so, absolutely, and, you know, there’s, I think this is also why it’s sometimes very attractive to listen to someone that says they know, that they, you know, they know the answers because we’re, you know, in a sea of mystery all the time being alive in this world, you know, and this doesn’t get you out of that process, but for me, I do think, you know, there’s kind of three ways that I think about working with intention.

Nick Werber 42:34

One is the setting it process, like the planting the seed, writing it down, which can be a really exciting and kind of expansive piece. Then, there’s what we’ve talked about, which is meeting the barriers, which is, can be so shocking how different it feels, it’s like, it was so expansive in the beginning now it’s so friction-filled, and that can kind of discourage people but there’s a piece in between and maybe all around, all of it, where I do think it’s nice to have some sort of practice where you’re connecting to your intentions on a regular basis. And you don’t even have to do it every day. But for me that writing it down and stepping on the sheets of paper, I do that once every other week with my intentions, to just see, you know, how am I feeling now? Is there still kind of a change or anything that needs to be shifted here? How am I sitting with it, just to kind of keep allowing my own intuition, my own body awareness to keep teaching me and showing me new things. But if you know even the most trained somatic healers that spend all their time with body awareness, which I really spend a lot of my time leaning on my body awareness even with my clients, that’s how a lot of my intuition comes through. You know, the body. It speaks in feeling, it’s not in words. And you know, even that, I think is a metaphor. It’s like, so much of the way life speaks to us is it’s the exception is when it’s extremely direct and says, go do this. But a lot of it is, you know, there are messages that are kind of in a gray area and it’s up to us to feel, what feels right for us.

Candice Wu 44:27

I didn’t really set intentions this year.

Nick Werber 44:38

You’re screwed. The way you said it was like you dropped a bomb.

Candice Wu 44:52

All this talk about intentions, and well, I think that as I’m reflecting on myself, that there just been different ways that I’ve worked with the process of intention and setting it and some processes feel more epic than others. And there are times in my life where it feels that it needs a very, almost like a ceremony to set an intention and to create the space for it. And other times of my life, it feels like a quieter process that’s, maybe this is also more along with the evolution of my own capacity and healing. That it feels almost like a part of me, a part of each moment, in fact, that if I had to put words as you eloquently said, you know, this is a feeling, this is an experience. But if I had to put words into the process, it might be something like, where am I right now and what am I feeling? And what do I want to lean into right now in the capacity of who I am like, the state of being that I’m in?

Candice Wu 46:17

And so the words I’d give it right now as far as intention, maybe it’s just going back to what I said in the beginning, surrender, and trust. And I’m not sure if that’s the intention, or if that’s just how I want to be right now, surrendering. And it’s very moment to moment.

Candice Wu 46:38

And I found that in the last couple of months, my astrologer said to me that it was Uranus and the chaos of Uranus, that it brings this unpredictability and changing your mind moment to moment even. What was in this moment can be totally the opposite the next or the next day or the next week, and I have felt that very much in the last couple of months. And so when I have planned too far ahead, for me, it will reveal itself. So I just felt like I’m just not going to waste my time doing that. And that’s very particular to me and my process. I don’t know if other people are relating to that. Maybe if you have the same birth chart as I do. But, surrendering to the moment and going deeper though, not just like to the topical, satisfaction of the moment, but something deeper of, a deeper movement towards the next movement. So in a way, it’s very unknown. It’s just this movement to the next. So yeah, there’s my confession about intention.

Nick Werber 48:00

Candice, I feel what you’re sharing about the way you’re working with intention just makes me think, you know, that is so you, and I think that’s one of the things I really admire about you is the way that you just freefall with spontaneity in so many areas of your life, and that’s brave, that’s awesome, and so it makes sense to me that you’d be saying that and I think in some ways, maybe we represent two different poles around on the subject, and people can take kind of little bits from either of us, because for me, it’s the spontaneity and the free fall. I get kind of lost and the planning really focuses me in this way that increases my effectiveness and, but of course, there are things that are lost.

Candice Wu 48:55

It’s beautiful.

Nick Werber 48:56

And you know, and spontaneity is, so who wouldn’t benefit from embracing a little bit more spontaneity, and I think you really are like a role model for that in a beautiful way.

Candice Wu 49:08

Thank you, Nick. It’s not that I don’t get lost sometimes too, though. But I also, I guess I’m okay with getting a little lost. Maybe that’s the thing.

Nick Werber 49:23

You have a high tolerance for it, maybe it’s a way of saying it.

Candice Wu 49:28

Maybe, but yes, I think you’re right. You know, there’s just a time for all different kinds of tools, and I think the processes you’re bringing up, they’re incredibly powerful, and they do work at times, work I mean, they will open things up and they will, if you follow through, if or I guess I should only speak for myself: when I feel through the resistance, I’ve landed in exactly where I want it to be in a way, but in a place, which I couldn’t even fathom! And on the other hand, I know it somewhere in my body, that’s what I wanted.

Candice Wu 50:10

So yeah, I think just putting up a menu of how we can all approach this thing called human experience, it’s really great. But let’s talk about family and lineage; and what you’re thinking about in terms of how that intersects with intention.

Nick Werber 50:38

Sure. So you know, for people that might not know, it’s really the focus of my practice is around how family and family history are at the root of so much of the barriers that we experience and you know, the way when I speak to this, I’m not really speaking to it from this kind of, maybe like a clinical perspective at it for me, it’s really at this kind of soul level that we’re born to these, this mother and father, you know we were, we might have had older siblings or younger siblings, or no siblings at all, and that becomes this very powerful template that follows us around. You know, the roles that we’ve played with our family, the types of people we were surrounded by, you know, I think I said an example is: if you had a parent that was a narcissist, and one of them was distant; and then… did you try to befriend the narcissist or did you reject them; and try to ally with the distant parent or, you know, the permutations are infinite. But it becomes this bedrock by which so much of what we’ve become, or how we emerge out of our family is so much a reflection, either an acceptance or rejection of where we come from, and why this, I think is relevant into intentions is, I think so many of us are probably aware on some level that our family has intentions too, and that those intentions were pushed on us. You know, and so the maybe the simplest one would be, go be a doctor, be a lawyer, but there it goes deeper than that, and then I’m actually very fortunate, and you know, and it’s actually complicated. When you don’t get this, it’s also confusing, too. But I would lean towards saying, I’m fortunate that I came from a family that the main message I got was just all we want for you is to be happy. I mean, that’s like I am very very thankful that I got that message, and there was not a push to be a certain thing. I didn’t have to be something.

Candice Wu 53:10

Wow!

Nick Werber 53:10

However —

Candice Wu 53:12

Yeah.

Nick Werber 53:13

Yeah, not to be glossed over.

Candice Wu 53:17

Yeah.

Nick Werber 53:17

I mean, that’s a huge deal. Yeah, it’s a big deal.

Candice Wu 53:22

But guess what’s the shadow side of it? What?

Nick Werber 53:24

Completely, yeah, completely shaped my life that I received that message.

Candice Wu 53:29

Yes.

Nick Werber 53:33

One of the shadow sides is, if you’re just supposed to be happy all the time, if that’s the goal, then you’re going to be falling short all the time.

Candice Wu 53:42

Yeah, I wonder —

Nick Werber 53:44

-the whole happiness at all times.

Candice Wu 53:45

All we want for you to is to be happy. Yeah, I didn’t know if it was literally happy, you know, and the pressure to be happy to come with that or if that just meant it was open, but it’s, yeah, sounding like that would create a lot of, we’re much more than just happy in our experience of life.

Nick Werber 54:12

And there’s depression in my family, which is, so obviously what that is a reaction.

Candice Wu 54:18

Now when you say that, yes.

Nick Werber 54:23

And so, you know, so then it becomes, well, what if I don’t, you know, it’s a little bit confusing. So it’s you know, it’s funny how these messages no matter what they are, even if it’s so simple and sounding so innocent… we just want you to be happy. It still gets confusing.

Candice Wu 54:41

And in a way, we could just turn it around and say, and maybe this is where you’re going but seeing that maybe the words were, are more, maybe the words are all I want us to be happy, coming from wherever that came from, but impressed upon you, it’s a totally different experience.

Nick Werber 55:09

Well, Candice, I think you’re nailing it right now, and we’re about to go very deep into my own, you know, constellation, but it’s yes, absolutely. It is, there’s a funny way and I think this can be extrapolated that the desires that our family have for us are so much, obviously a desire to have it, reflect on them in a certain way, and you know, absolutely the message of I just want you to be happy was, if you’re happy, then I can be happy and you know, maybe that will fix things for me and funny enough, me and my sibling were not very happy.

Candice Wu 55:56

That’s just a strange thing.

Candice Wu 56:03

Yeah.

Nick Werber 56:05

Yeah, that has to be earned, and it’s a process but I want to kind of bring it back slightly of our family has intentions for us, sometimes they’re very concrete, we’d like you to do a certain job, we’d like to be a certain type of person, and so when we’re setting our own intentions, that has to be included in our awareness about, you know, what is our intentions and what is our the intentions that we’re carrying, actually for someone else in a way, you know, if I’m happy then if I can do that, then finally maybe my mom can be happy.

Nick Werber 56:43

And so there’s a piece of that, that needs to be respected, and there’s also another part of intentions that I think is really important which is that anytime we change in a way that we are leaving this fear of where we come from, you know, you want to make a million dollars, and no one in your family ever did that, you are breaking through a barrier there that you know you are you’re part of this family consciousness and you’re leaving it, and so there is an element of guilt that comes with that. Whether you’re aware of it or not, that sometimes when we connect to our intentions and we’re creating change in our life, there’s a part of it where we are leaving something behind, you know, that’s change and in any form, you know, to connect to something new, you’re always in a way leaving something behind, and so that factors into our intention setting to —

Candice Wu 57:50

Absolutely!

Nick Werber 57:51

-where we come from, you know, what we emerged in within our family.

Candice Wu 57:58

Now, I feel this conversation is flowing two ways in my mind at the moment. Looking at our own intentions, and I love what you said about respecting the pieces that may connect with an inheritance or with other people in our life, or maybe given to us just respecting that versus you saying, no, that’s a bad intention then right? To give that up or change that, but just respecting, just honoring it, is just such a lovely approach you’re bringing.

Nick Werber 58:41

Well, and maybe the way of adding to that would be to say, you know, just because our parents wanted something for us, doesn’t mean it’s bad, and this starts to get into, you know, after working with many different people of different family backgrounds, different cultural backgrounds, you know, I feel very strongly that the family we’re born into is this incredible, it’s a wealth of information, it’s a huge teacher for all of us, and even if you disagree with the pieces of what they shared with you, there’s, you know, they still taught you how to tie your shoes and maybe cook. You know, there’s a million basic things that come across from a family that, you know, doesn’t matter how much you reject or how much you disagree with you. You’ve taken from them.

Candice Wu 59:46

Yeah. Absolutely, and there’s so much conversation in the world event, intention setting about getting to the why or understanding why you’re choosing that, and I think that’s very important and it’s part of what you’re bringing forward in this conversation, is what are the pieces that influence, the reason that you want this or you know, whether that’s personal family or other, any other systems you’re part of or if you believe in past lives, but here we’re speaking about family, and when you said just because parents wanted something for us, doesn’t mean it’s bad. I feel if we also get to the why of like, they wanted to be a doctor say, or they wanted you to just stay in the lines and not make a mess and not stick out, that there’s a why underneath that, and we can really get to that essential love that they wanted for us, and I can’t assume that’s for many people are all people, but it’s in my experience that lives underneath it, that there’s something underneath in the undercurrent of that more topical message that people have gotten, that says, well, we really just wanted you to be safe or we really just wanted you to be yourself or be happy or which, as we’re talking about comes with all sorts of stuff, but there’s something else underneath it that we can look at as well.

Nick Werber 1:01:41

You’re totally right, and I think safety is especially the big word and that brings up for me, you know, something that Suzi said, Suzi Tucker, our shared teacher, about this subject. You know, Suzi had been talking about the just ancestral component of Jewish culture across the world, and where you know how the history of persecution is affected people today, and you know, one of her, she always says these things are always like an aside, all the best, and then it’s like, whoa, I need to write that down, and what she would say is that in the shadow of the Holocaust and how many people were lost, it’s there’s many, obviously, Jewish families that push their children to become doctors, lawyers, bankers, and she put it, she said, you know, what’s the common thread line between so many of these career paths? It’s that there they are central, they are needed. Your society can’t work without them, and you know, when you think about the genocide, it’s like, how do you become necessary in the world? And I think that’s a really clear example of how ancestral history affects family on a really, you know, the macro affects the micro, but this is happening across all cultures and with all different kinds of histories that the past influences exactly what our mothers are telling us today.

Candice Wu 1:03:31

Absolutely, how do you become necessary in the world? That hits somewhere deep.

Candice Wu 1:03:43

So the thought I was going to say about looking into directions, like looking at the family in the past, and looking at what’s been carried through the generations and how that comes into our intentions and looking forward also in the other direction, well maybe it’s the same, but I had an experience where someone told me if you do want to have children, make sure you don’t do it because of wanting to give your children a different experience than you got, and I was like, yeah, of course, and then I was like, oh yeah, of course. Because actually, the thought that came next was, well, then what would the reason be?

Candice Wu 1:04:34

And there was this part of me that couldn’t think of what would be a good reason. Like, how do I verbalize what would be a good reason? How is it clear enough from the reactions of myself or from the reactions of my ancestry? And that was a little tricky, and what I got too was just for love and experiencing, allowing someone to come into life through me, but that they’re completely free to be however they want to be, and that was really hard to, in some ways, articulate it clear enough, you know, because wanting your child to be happy, there just can be so many shadow sides to that and unknowns unconscious parts. But even what I’m saying, I don’t know if there are some dark, like, unconscious parts, but I guess I’m tangenting a little bit because I also, as you know, Nick, I work with horses and I enjoy time with horses, and yet I struggle all the time with the fact that we keep them behind fences, and we keep them accessible to humans the way we want, but do they want that, and it would be some time as a whole for that to shift, but if we really believed in the freedom of another being, then you know, how do we see, and treat them, and think about that? And so I guess looping back to intention when it comes to bringing life in, maybe that does apply too to the things that we create, that are not just human life or animal life or caretaking for others, but what we’re creating as far as what we’re birthing.

Nick Werber 1:06:38

I think there’s so much metaphor and in birth and creation, and I think in many ways, you know, the creative pursuits are kind of a process, a feminine process and a lot of ways that birthing, that creation, that I really, I do appreciate what you said shared, and I just wanted to acknowledge that I think you are not alone, and I can imagine there are many people listening right now that would resonate with that about having children in order to change, somehow change the way, you know, give them an experience you didn’t have, and there’s a piece of me that just wants to say, I don’t want to, I don’t think it’s totally wrong to come into that, to come into it that way, but I think it’s so important to have the awareness that you know.

Nick Werber 1:07:39

There’s a cartoon about this that I love, they’re kind of these candy hearts, like the ones that we give out on Valentine’s Day, but their characters and one of them just has on the candy heart section, it says we will not let you get fucked up, and then the mother side says: our parents fucked us up, and then the little baby heart just says: “a new kind of fucked up”.

Candice Wu 1:08:00

Oh! I love that! Please send me that. we are going to link that here too.

Nick Werber 1:08:05

It’s the clearest, like you get it immediately.

Candice Wu 1:08:11

Yeah.

Nick Werber 1:08:12

And this is a huge thing, I’m sitting with right now where I am talking about with my partner about, you know, when we might have children and what I’m bringing them into the world, why I’m doing that, what is the intention behind that is a big thing, and I do get wrapped up sometimes and all the things I would do differently, and then I catch myself saying, you know, I actually was raised in a way that I think my parents were very focused on doing it differently, and that is, it has its own shortcomings in a funny way.

Candice Wu 1:08:51

I really appreciate you bringing that up and holding space for that not being wrong, and I do feel that too, and when we think that things like that are wrong or like that we shouldn’t do that, it can compel us, yes to find something different but it can also be a way that we don’t acknowledge, that we actually have those true desires inside of us and the more we put a blanket over that, saying, okay, let’s like, let’s not, let’s resist that and let’s not use that intention. Sometimes that really backfires and it just lives anyway.

Candice Wu 1:09:47

Circling back to the beginning of our conversation, you know, where you said, I think these feelings I’m having are going to emerge no matter what, and there’s such a power to just say acknowledging it, and respecting that and seeing where it has an effect if you can and claiming it. So it has a place instead of just this like, lingering thing somewhere in the unconscious that does pass forward and lives itself out is the little baby heart.

Candice Wu 1:10:29

So do you want to talk about one more topic, Nick? I know we just like laid out so many. So good, but we kind of are leaning into resistance, what we resist persists, but what are you wanting to talk about now?

Nick Werber 1:10:49

You know, I think again, it just all feels like a time of year to touch on these guys, but I would love to talk about the phenomenon of black sheep and fan. Because I think this is the time of year where all that stuff comes right back up and there are so many people that were the black sheep that are, you know, still in recovery from their family gathering or have you know, stayed home and held certain boundaries and, you know, had to suffer watching all the family photos go by on their Facebook feed or whatever; and I just, I think something that is just so important to me is a real respect for the phenomenon of black sheep, how they emerge and that they are such an important part of the evolution of our society and our culture, and so that’s what comes up for me, so then, I’ve, and then now I feel like I just want to put you on the spot. Are you the black sheep Candice, of your family?

Candice Wu 1:11:59

I saw your post that you are not the black sheep. And I was like, am I?

Nick Werber 1:12:04

I know.

Candice Wu 1:12:07

Yeah, that was great by the way. I really appreciate that, so am I the black sheep?

Nick Werber 1:12:13

Yeah, I can speak more to that too, but yes, I was not the black sheep in my family which a lot of people are surprised to hear that. But the spotlight was taken by another, but yeah, so yeah, you said did you say yes, you are —

Candice Wu 1:12:28

I was thinking about it. It depends on how you define black sheep, so would you define it for the people listening and for me?

Nick Werber 1:12:44

That’s a, it’s a great, yeah. You know, I think if the black sheep is characterized by being someone that feels very strongly out of place, sometimes people that feel that the black sheep and their family feel like their parents are their parents, in some way.

Candice Wu 1:13:06

Yeah.

Nick Werber 1:13:06

You know, how could I possibly be their child and they are often the carrier and the target of all the shame of the family. It’s like there’s this sense of, you know, its parents might have a tendency to almost project all their shortcomings on to the child that didn’t do what they told them or wasn’t enough or should have been smarter or different in some way, which by the way, children are always a reflection of their parents and so for a parent to somehow pointed to a child and say you’re the problem is just very short-sided. But so it’s I think it’s yeah, it’s often they feel a certain level of shame, black sheep, as they get older, might spend very little time with their family because they might become kind of tired of it all and I, you know, I think the kind of classic was like television show thing of, you know, family dinner and the black sheep eat the fastest, tries to get out of it, gets away from the table as quickly as possible, barely talks, if they do, it’s very brief. You know, kind of, it’s almost like black sheep I think have to be very protective of themselves because they can be such target within families.

Candice Wu 1:14:48

Yes, that was me. That’s like almost everything you named. I was like, oh, yeah, check, that’s been my experience.

Candice Wu 1:15:00

At certain points in my life, good chunks of my life definitely felt out of place. Like, how could these be my parents, but then I also saw ways in which I was just like them, a lot of shame, and very much directed towards me even it trickled into my siblings, how could it not, you know, the same directed to me.

Candice Wu 1:15:28

I was known for like, stirring the pot and making things worse; and that’s by virtue of me expressing my feelings, you know, saying what’s going on and what I feel and it was a lot of things my family wasn’t ready to look at, and I, so desperately needed them to and needed them to acknowledge because, for me, it felt like survival, and not having enough resource for myself to survive the emotions that were going on and the trauma that was passed down many years that hadn’t been dealt with, that hadn’t been integrated.

Candice Wu 1:16:15

Yeah, many moments of like running away from the dinner table, having stuffed my food in my mouth, and crying. Those are really rough memories, you know, and I’ve worked on them so many times, and this is still a little tender place. But I can say now that I’m in the best time of connection with my family after doing so much work, inner work and embodied work, constellations work, there’s still more of course, but I actually enjoy my family and they enjoy me now and they’ve also looked at a lot, and so the same isn’t really is as strong as like a strong of a tidal wave, and just maybe exists in little pockets now, but as far as like the family system, it seems, from where I’m standing.

Candice Wu 1:17:22

So yeah, I don’t feel like I’m the black sheep anymore, but I once was, and I know that you had shared Bert Hellinger’s idea of black sheep, think on your Instagram and your social media; and many people have shared that it’s really beautiful because speaking to the black sheep as the change, the healing bringing the evolution of the family system forward is so real to me too, and at times, that’s felt like too much of a responsibility because it was and other times, it felt like an honor, and of course my place… it makes sense… like I wanted to do that but so you’re not the black sheep?

Nick Werber 1:18:12

You know, it’s so funny, this always happens is that as I connect to something over and over again, it deepens, and I just, as I’m hearing you, I feel like, I have actually felt I really connected to something about me that’s a little bit more than maybe what I had shared, which is yes, traditionally in my family, there’s the obvious black sheep is my younger brother and he just was a huge handful in a lot of ways and really offended so much of the family in so many ways, but what I would say is, you know, I said this: when we started that he kind of took the role for me because I feel if he wasn’t there then it would have been me, and I always kind of wished I could have been as disruptive as him. But then I think I had this awareness of how it would just kind of destroy the family to have another kid that is rebelling like that and so I felt conscious of that of like, I don’t have a place to be the rebel anymore.

Nick Werber 1:19:26

But I will say this, is what I connected to as I was talking is that I’m actually, truly, from a family of black sheep. My father was the black sheep of his family and my mother was the black sheep of her family, and maybe that’s not absolutely 100% clear from my mother. There’s like a little bit of a gray area there but for my father, it absolutely was, and so it’s funny, it’s like I’m the child of, I’m like, second-generation black sheep in some way which has a huge role in so much of who I am because I wasn’t raised with religion. I’m the first person and both sides of my family to not be raised with religion at all; and there are a million other traditions that I was maybe not part of for partly just because of that, because there are so many traditions connected to religion.

Nick Werber 1:20:24

So, there’s a funny, I think I realized I’m broadening the perspective a little bit. I’m kind of in the sphere of the black sheep, but maybe on the micro-level, it was more clear that my brother was the big one. But can I actually, that Bert Hellinger quote, may I just read it?

Candice Wu 1:20:44

Please do.

Nick Werber 1:20:45

I think it really captures what I feel about black sheep and I think so many people when they hear it, have a feeling to add. So I’ll just read it. I brought it up because I think I had a feeling we’d be talking about it, so, “The so-called black sheep of the family are, in fact, seekers of deliberation roads for the family tree. Those members of the tree who do not adapt to the rules or traditions of the family system, those who are constantly seeking to revolutionize beliefs, going in contrast to roads marked by family traditions, those criticize, tried and even rejected those by general, they are called to release the tree of repetitive stories that frustrate entire generations. The black sheep, those who do not adapt, those who scream rebel, repair, detoxify and create a new blooming branch, countless unfulfilled desires, unfulfilled dreams, frustrated talents of our ancestors manifest themselves in the black sheep’s rebellion looking to take place. The family tree by inertia will want to continue to maintain the castrating and toxic course of its trunk which makes its task, the black sheeps task, difficult and conflicting that no one makes you doubt. Take care of your rarity as the most precious flower of your tree. You are the dream of all your ancestors.” And that’s by Bert Hellinger.

Nick Werber 1:21:01

So lovely.

Nick Werber 1:22:29

Yeah, you know, it just for me, it captures so many things, but I just, I do feel that black sheep carve new roads for families, you know, without black sheep, families can just keep repeating over and over again; and it’s the black sheep that kind of forced them to face things. Even if the family that sits around the “black sheep” doesn’t receive anything, doesn’t take anything in, you know that the children of the black sheep are never going to be the same. They’re always going to experience traditions and family in a different way. So it’s, I think black sheep are just so intertwined with evolution and as he says, you are the dream of your ancestors and I really believe that our ancestors, it is their dream that we evolve and become more of who we are and more in tune with, what fulfills us and what serves others in the world and so that’s, I really, I can’t say enough of how I put black sheep on a pedestal, I really have a lot of respect for that role and families. So thank you, Candice, for playing that role and coming through it.

Candice Wu 1:24:08

Oh my god! No, I’m starting to think about black sheep in a broader context too, because originally when you said are you the black sheep and I had read your post referring to your brother, I started to think about black sheep in this sort of identified patient kind of way. You know, that language comes from the world of psychology and counseling. Like when a family says, we need help because so and so has a problem in our family, they could name one person as the one with the problem and yeah, I often think of that person is maybe the black sheep and that they have a lot of, they can typically have a lot of symptoms or maybe there’s alcoholism or there’s something that becomes very severe that the family cannot continue to look away; and I wouldn’t say that was me.

Candice Wu 1:25:14

I mean, the worst thing I ever did was, and it’s kind of bad, when I was 16, I got a speeding ticket for 51 over the speed limit. Yeah, it’s a lot. I don’t know, yeah, it was crazy. I never drove that way again but that’s probably the worst that I ever drove and so I couldn’t relate to it in terms of being a certain kind of like, severe set of symptoms or experiencing rebellion in a way that is very like oppositional or something like that but I think that’s the way I’m seeing now can be helpful for anyone that doesn’t perhaps relate to that kind of experience too, you know, and as you’re talking, Nick, that there are parts of us that feel like black sheep, there might be a part of us that we can connect with — has felt like it’s been black sheep, so to say. Maybe that’s just shame, you know, where we feel shame or —

Nick Werber 1:26:29

Well, I love that, it’s that perhaps the part of us that doesn’t feel like it belongs is actually the part that is bringing something to the world. You know, we don’t belong because something that we are, it’s not here yet, it’s not accepted yet but actually, if we can find acceptance with it in ourselves and just and share it and be it, then we actually are giving something to the world we’re hoping it, you know, by including more.

Candice Wu 1:27:07

Yeah, so we can find our inner black sheep, and parts of us that don’t feel like they belong, those are the most essential to the entire wave of evolution and the dreams of the ancestors of all kinds.

Nick Werber 1:27:27

Wow, it’s like where newness emerges from. Wow.

Candice Wu 1:27:37

That’s nice, Nick, nice. So nice place to close, to feel complete.

Nick Werber 1:27:43

I think there’s no way that we could switch to something else —

Candice Wu 1:27:44

Yeah, we’re done here. We are done, except I would love for you to just briefly talk about your retreat. Yeah, it’s coming out February 14 through the 18th…

Nick Werber 1:28:02

…through the 19th actually. Yeah, so, you know, I know you’ve done many retreats, Candice and I feel very strongly that you know, Family Constellations are beautiful one on one, they’re beautiful in a group workshop setting. But I believe that they take on their most powerful, most resourceful state when they’re in a retreat setting, there’s something about gathering with the group and being in that container for multiple days that just the energy just builds and I see it in my own facilitation. I mean, these the retreat work, I think that’s beautiful, and so, —

Candice Wu 1:28:55

Yeah, absolutely.

Nick Werber 1:28:56

Yeah and you know, I knew, and I know this because we met at the intensive, which is a form of a retreat, which was a super powerful and I think meeting you as a part of what made that so powerful for me

Candice Wu 1:29:11

Same here. Yeah, it’s huge

Nick Werber 1:29:16

So, yeah, so this retreat, it starts we’re going to be in Mazunte, Mexico, which is Southern Mexico, and it’s overlooking the Pacific Ocean, and it’s just a really beautiful place. Again, you, it’s like you can walk five minutes to the water, and we’ll be doing Family Constellations work and various forms of Shadow Work. The stuff that, you know, it really goes back to what we were talking about at the beginning of this call of, you know, when you set these intentions, you will meet certain barriers and at that point, you know, it’s important to call in your resources. So all the work we’re doing is literally to meet you at that point is, you know, resources that help people actually do the work of chipping away and doing the integration and processing with these barriers. So we’ll get there on Friday and be doing that work on this beautiful terrace that is kind of open-air and I’m just, I’m super excited about it because these groups come together and it’s just people leave as incredible friends and I still see from my past retreats, you know, people basically communicating with each other that I know had met at some of the work that we have been doing.

Candice Wu 1:30:44

That’s awesome. Yeah.

Nick Werber 1:30:45

Yeah.

Candice Wu 1:30:46

It sounds beautiful, and what a great time to you know, if you live in the Midwest or somewhere called to get out into a little bit of warmth and get the fire on the inside.

Nick Werber 1:31:01

That’s a big part of it. Yeah, that was a big part of why we reschedule it, you know, there’s going to be really beautiful deep work going on. But there is a lot of space built in to just go chill on the beach, which is, you know, just as important, and the weather I think is like, you know, the mid–80s basically, winter.

Candice Wu 1:31:28

So good.

Nick Werber 1:31:29

Sounds pretty good to me.

Candice Wu 1:31:31

Awesome. Where can people find that retreat, Nick?

Nick Werber 1:31:37

So if you go to my website, which is just NickNWerber.com, you can go there or my Instagram is @nwerber (instagram.com/nwerber), and then all of its actually being hosted through Maha Rose, which is this incredible organization that’s based in Brooklyn, and that’s of Maha Rose’s website, www.maharose.com is another place where you can read up about it.

Candice Wu 1:32:06

Thank you so much, Nick. This was fun, and do you feel like we, you? Yeah. How did we do on our intentions?

Nick Werber 1:32:19

I think we did great, and I really am. I think we did well, because I really, that it was funny that moment where you said, I think we have to close there was actually the moment where I had felt a sense of, oh, wow, I actually this is, it’s the exact kind of subject that I will spend the next few weeks thinking about of. You know, all those places where I don’t feel I belong, of which there are many, you know, is that possible? That’s just something that’s emerging that the world can I respect it in that way. So I think there is a fullness that I feel when I just connect to that right now, so I think we did well and, you know.

Candice Wu 1:33:04

Absolutely, yeah, to each their own of their experience and yeah, I’ll be thinking about that too, and it’s kind of like a twist on something I’ve been doing for some time. But the words are so poignant now like all the ways I feel that I don’t belong now or maybe in the past, yeah.

Nick Werber 1:33:33

Yeah, well, it’s so, you know, obviously, the reflex of way to experience that is it’s just the opposite. I don’t belong and there must be something wrong with me and all the stuff that we talked about. So it definitely is turning an idea on its head in a way that you know, I don’t know about you, but the moment I connect with it, I just, I feel that sense of my body relaxes and I feel clearer and you know, for me, it’s all the signals that there’s —

Candice Wu 1:34:03

Yeah, same here. I feel that playfulness that I was wanting about it, to approach it with playfulness. It’s a fun process to think about it in this way and I learned so much. Thank you, Nick.

Nick Werber 1:34:23

Thank you, Candice. I feel like we can do this again.

Candice Wu 1:34:26

We still have to talk about all sorts of things like letting — like, kind of

Candice Wu 1:34:33

I love that topic, that was the ones that kept me up and what we resist persists. Like how just looking at that in different ways and through the body. So yeah, a little teaser for our next podcast whenever that comes, but let’s do it.

Nick Werber 1:34:52

The perfect cliffhanger for now.

Candice Wu 1:34:55

Thank you, Nick. Okay, definitely see you next time and just want to say one more thing, actually, thank you so much for offering the music for the Embody Podcast, the intro and outro music. I still use it. It’s still on every single podcast and you created it. It’s so lovely.

Nick Werber 1:35:17

I know. I love it.

Candice Wu 1:35:18

Thank you.

Nick Werber 1:35:20

Thank you. Thank you very much. I’m so glad.

Candice Wu 1:35:26

I’m so grateful for Nick’s presence out in the world, and what he’s doing in support of other people, and in growing the work of Family Constellations in his unique way. It’s really beautiful to be challenged by his work and to learn and grow from it and also to exchange in the ways that we do as friends and as colleagues. Thank you so much, Nick, and thank you all out there for listening. I hope this does give you something to nibble on as we close today. Be sure to check out Nick’s website if you’re interested in his work or the retreat coming up, and his Instagram where he shares a lot of his writing, and again, his website is nicknwerber.com, and you can find all of the links at the show notes related to this episode at candice.com/nickparttwo.

Candice Wu 1:36:24

And as we send each other forward into this new year 2020, this is already been quite a long podcast, so I’m just going to pretty much close it out from here and send you off with of course Nick’s lovely intro outro music if you’re interested in staying connected, you can feel free to sign up for my newsletter at candice.com/embody where I share all about the podcast, and the experientials, and meditations that come out as well as events, self-love notes, and updates about me. Thanks so much and see you next time on the Embody Podcast.

Candice Wu 0:00

As a gift, Nick Werber has offered one of his favorite audio meditations on the subject of consenting to people and the present moment as they are. The meditation is originally written by German psychologist, Bert Hellinger, and as read by Dr. Michael Picucci. Dr. Picucci was one of Nick’s greatest mentors before he passed away, and Nick spent a year recording several of his meditations along with the audio version of his book, Vocalizing Source Energy. The content of the meditation gets at universal and enduring truth that our perception of the world around us shapes the world around us. What an honor to have him here on the podcast, sharing this experience with all of you. Though I’ve never met either one of you, Michael and Bert Hellinger, thank you.

Michael Picucci 1:11

This is Michael Picucci. I’m going to recite my own adaptation of a brief guided meditation, originally written by German psychologist, Bert Hellinger. The name of this meditation is Consenting. It is intended to be a deep and meaningful experience.

Before doing so, may I suggest you find a private, comfortable place for yourself, and then slowly find a sense of embodiment and an awareness of your body, perhaps take a few conscious breaths just noticing the natural in and out of the breath. Give yourself a few minutes to notice that we have a live body as well as a mind and let this awareness be an accompaniment to the meditation. As I share the meditation, feel free to let the words wash over you as you are listening to them.

This particular guided meditation is intended to have its own special effects on many levels and dimensions of your experience. Feel free to listen to it as often as it can be helpful to you in finding a better ground of being.

I begin, consenting, as soon as I have consented to other persons as they are, they can feel at ease. As soon as I have consented to a situation, as it is, it changes. It reveals to me new possibilities for action. On an inward journey, I may experience that an obstacle stands in my way. Often, it is something that I have not yet consented to, for example, a pain or loss that I have not gotten over, was something that must be resolved. There is something else to which I must agree, the time that I still need. As soon as I have agreed that I need more time, time leaves me in peace. I may move on.

I experienced something similar with my pain. What happens when I agree to it? When I no longer try to get rid of it? When I take it close to my heart and allow it to calm down in me? When I permit it to take the lead? Perhaps, this pain wants to take me to something that I have lost sight of, for example, another person, maybe this pain guides me back to something that is waiting for recognition and for a solution. Therefore, I stay with this pain as it is the whole time.

With this pain, something recollects itself inside of me. Is it that I pause on my inward journey, in the moment, exactly here? Or is it that this pain is leading me on to a decisive step because I have agreed to it? It takes me by the hand and leads me further and deeper. When I simply surrender, what happens to my pain? My pain, too, calm down and finds its peace. It closes its eyes as if its work is done.

As soon as I agree to everything, as it is, I gain precious time. As I stay in peace with me, something in me and outside of me grows as if of its own accord. These inner journeys are movements of life, I have agreed to everything as it is, I feel free to engage in the essential aspects of life. I may move on in a decisive manner.

These inward journeys of movements of life, what I have agreed to everything as it is, I feel free to engage in the essential aspects of life. I may move on in a decisive manner.

The forces of life first collect inside, only then, do they turn outside. Insights too, a first perceived inside. After that, they set something in motion outside. On our inward journeys, we consent everything as it is, first to ourselves and to our situation, to life as it is, and to the lives of other people. In this way, our inward journeys continue outside as well.

Our journeys to source energy, open other space for us inside. Rilke calls this space, the inner space of the world. In this space, we relate to life in a more comprehensive way, we see it differently, and we become different. After this, we return to our own space, changed, and we turn toward our everyday lives, changed. What is the nature of this change? We are in its service, a line with enough love.

Candice Wu 0:00

This episode is about understanding the different levels of our physiology, how we can access the deepest levels of healing, as well as, how to nourish and love ourselves from the source of our being and to live from that source in alignment with our true nature.

Candice Wu 0:19

Hello and welcome. You’re listening to the Embody Podcast, a show about remembering and embodying your true nature, inner wisdom, Embodied Healing and self-love.

Candice Wu 0:32

My name is Candice Wu and I’m a holistic healing facilitator, intuitive coach, and artist sharing my personal journey of vulnerability, offering meditations and guided healing support, and having co-creative conversations with healers and wellness practitioners from all over the world.

Candice Wu 0:52

This episode is possible because of all my listeners, people like you. And those of you who are supporting me on Patreon.

Candice Wu 1:00

I’m so grateful to have your support and your contribution of donating some money to the behind the scenes work for the podcasts. And all the offerings that I put out there have been so touching and instrumental in continuing this podcast.

Candice Wu 1:16

If this podcast or the healing experiential meditations have been inspiring to you in any way, I would encourage you to check out the Patreon page because it’s also a lovely exchange. I have some new offers there, where if you donate a certain level per month, then you can have access to either Q&A sessions with me or personalized healing meditations that are intuitively based on your needs and what you have shared with me that you want to focus on in your life.

Candice Wu 1:48

And I’m really excited to share with you the new offer which is a monthly call where you can connect up with me and gain specific support for your body and soul and any embodied support that you desire for the month and the call is for up to four people. You can check all that out at my website, CandiceWu.com/patreon.

Candice Wu 2:14

Welcome back. It’s really great to have you again. By the time you’re listening to this episode, I will be on my retreat, it’s the Soul Body Retreat. And it’s happening in Utah with a group of very special women. And at the moment, I am recording this in a bedroom in Michigan, because I’m still here and preparing to head out there on retreat. And just getting a little ahead of the game with the podcasts.

Candice Wu 2:43

At the moment, the focus of my heart has been riding horses and being with horses. I just cannot get enough. And I have been feeling into what really is that giving me? What is it about being with horses, that too makes me feel completely alive?

Candice Wu 3:02

You might have heard my podcast about commitment and conviction, a story about me being with my horse, Sage, the horse I’ve been riding.

Candice Wu 3:11

Lately, I’ve been riding this other horse named Skippy. And he’s a bit smaller, but easier for me to ride because I’ve got little legs. And it’s already quite a challenge to strengthen my inner size and hamstrings and all of my leg muscles to stay on a horse. If you never have ridden a horse, you might not know that it takes a lot of muscle, I had no idea. But for about two months straight, my muscles have been completely sore. And I’ve just been so happy.

Candice Wu 3:41

And mostly because being on a horse and having that connection is just been so empowering. It feels like communicating at a very powerful level in my body and in my soul, with an animal that’s responding to me and moving around from that place. It is exactly what I want for myself to feel like, I can trust myself, trust the path of my life, but also give it direction and influence and create, so it’s beautiful.

Candice Wu 4:13

And the connection that I feel with the horse during that process is just so magical. It’s what I want to feel all the time.

Candice Wu 4:23

If you know me at all, you might know that I am a little bit impulsive. And I think that that’s a kind of a bad connotation of how, you know, how I can see myself. Because what I learned from an astrologer once, is that I’m quite like a butterfly. I can just move from thing to thing, and it’s my natural way. And so on the outside, it may look a little bit impulsive, but on the inside, it’s just right. I’m just in sync with myself when I moved from thing to thing. And perhaps, that’s why traveling is something that keeps me feeling alive. But this feeling in love with whatever it is that I’m in love with at the moment and letting myself have it to the full degree, it’s really in my nature.

Candice Wu 5:08

So as I share this with you, I’m just thinking about all of you out there. And how it is for you that you feel like you are yourself? How it is that you feel that your flow is the most like you? And what is it that you just truly love right now? What gives you the feeling of joy and excitement and inspiration and growth?

Candice Wu 5:32

I’d be so happy if you shared that with me. Feel free to email me or send me a message in any way. I always love hearing from all of you out there.

Candice Wu 5:39

So today I want to talk about the Koshas. It’s the levels of physiology that make up who we are, who we perceive we are.

Candice Wu 5:47

We are a collection of energies. Those energies have tendencies over time. And they either continue in a sort of way, or we heal them, complete them, and disrupt them and bring in new energies, find more wholeness, find more of ourselves, the power that we actually are. And we claim that power from all the different experiences that we heal or recover for ourselves and move forward with that new energy integrated as our being.

Candice Wu 6:21

But that energy is the unseen force of creation. It is the vibration of everything. It is the energy that flows through every single being. The most powerful energy that each of us have, or rather that each of us are.

Candice Wu 6:37

We are the energy that flows through us. So the energy of the source of things, the source of all energy flows through every single one of us into our particular individual consciousness, which then expresses itself through our mental body, energetic body, and physical body, the energy that is the force of us that is underneath everything, gives the blueprint and signature for how we feel inside, what we think, and how our physical body manifests itself. It is from the energy that’s unseen and deep inside of us, that gives the physical body.

Candice Wu 7:19

Okay, so let’s get a little more concrete with this so that it’s tangible and understandable. Because some of the language that can be used around these topics can feel so abstract and nebulous, like, divine energy, what is that? Or what is the force of creation? And when it goes in that way, I can also feel skeptical or I have a lot of questions.

Candice Wu 7:45

So I want to start with talking about the Koshas.

Candice Wu 7:48

The Koshas come from the tradition of Yoga, which is a long-standing tradition. It’s far beyond doing poses like Down Dog or Tree Pose, that’s just one aspect of Yoga, which is Asana, the poses, the understandings in the Vedas and the Sutras.

Candice Wu 8:09

The scripts of knowledge that are behind Yoga, go really deep into understanding our physiology, our human body, as well as the energies that are beyond our physical body, and all the way, into the way this universe functions and how it is this universe has been created, and therefore, how we can create and be our most powerful selves. Because we were incredibly powerful.

Candice Wu 8:39

We are more powerful than we believe we are. And that’s because our mind can be quite limited, our mental capacity. And that’s part of this conversation, because we’re going to look at beyond the mental capacity, beyond what we think we understand.

Candice Wu 8:56

The Koshas describe the different levels or Sheaths of our physiology.

Candice Wu 8:56

For now, I’ll just list from the outermost layer to the innermost layer, so it can get an organizational idea of this. But then I want to talk about it from the innermost level outward.

Candice Wu 9:14

The outer most level of our physiology is our physical body, then, underneath that is our energetic body then the mental body, which is encompassing the mind and emotions, then the intellect, which touches into the spiritual body, and all the way down to the level of oneness, or the source energy.

Candice Wu 9:38

I like understanding these five different levels, because it helps me understand where the most powerful and deepest healing can come from. If all the levels of our physiology are fluid and functioning, and all the tools on the inside are available to us, then we can touch into the deepest level and heal very easily.

Candice Wu 10:02

We can look at our situations in life, and track and sense with ease, what it is that’s happening? Where is our struggle? Or what is it that we believe? What are the impressions that we have about ourselves and the universe? And what is the truth? And then, therefore, we can access every possibility that there is.

Candice Wu 10:28

So let’s talk about that, let’s talk about every possibility, which is Om. You might have heard that word or use that word in your practice, in your mantras. Aum is comprised of three sounds, “a – u – m”, and these are the sounds in Sanskrit that give the energy of the whole, of all possibility, and all probability.

Candice Wu 10:50

As my teacher, Jim Kolakowski describes, this is the energy of the source of all things. Because this is the root of everything, this is everything itself. It gives the knowing that every single possibility is possible. And those possibilities that we can’t even fathom, are possible.

Candice Wu 11:13

And so when we get stuck into thinking, “I can’t do it,” or “I’m not capable,” actually, these are distortions of the truth. The truth is that we are much more powerful than what we think. And there are capabilities beyond what we have seen or know, at least in my own experience that are possible.

Candice Wu 11:35

So the innermost level of who we are is the energy of oneness. It’s the energy of the whole of Om, of bliss. And in Yoga, in the Koshas, they call it Anandamaya Kosha, the bliss level.

Candice Wu 11:55

Bliss isn’t just an emotion that you experience from the level of your mind. It’s the deepest form of peace, joy, love, and flow. That’s the undercurrent of everything. And it’s connected with every single being, every single experience of all existence. This level is free of distortions of the truth, distortions of what we believe over time, and it is the pure energy of consciousness itself.

Candice Wu 12:28

You might have heard me say, “the big S-Self, or the small s-self,”, meaning, like, spelling it with a large “S” or a small “s”.

Candice Wu 12:37

And this level, the oneness level, is of the big “S” self, and everyone’s self in big “S” is the same. We are all the same at this level, we’re energy, we are consciousness, there’s no distinction.

Candice Wu 12:52

So you may have tapped into experiences where you feel like you’re in that level of joy and pure being with complete neutrality, but it is peaceful, it is joyful and loving. That may be you touching into this level.

Candice Wu 13:13

I’ve experienced this in connection with myself, when I’m in deep meditation, or during Yoga Nidra, which is a deep relaxation, Yogic sleep.

Candice Wu 13:23

You might also experience it in between states of consciousness, like, when you’re falling asleep, or in different connections that you have with people or nature and animals.

Candice Wu 13:37

This energy of the source of all things moves through us, as our life force. And so when it moves through our individual soul, our individual consciousness, and all the belief sets that we came in within this life, in this experience of our being, that is the level of Vijnanamaya Kosha, that’s the knowing sheath, the intellectual level of our being.

Candice Wu 14:07

If you’ve ever seen the logo that I created for my work, it’s a circle, which looks like concentric circles outward, like a target sign almost, but a little more amorphous. The central circle is that oneness level, that’s the meaning behind my logo, actually. And then, the next circle that surrounds that central circle is this level Vijnanamaya Kosha.

Candice Wu 14:36

When I say intellect, it’s not the intellectual mind-stuff, or the things that we know, or the facts. It’s knowledge behind. It’s the knowing of discernment, it’s the knowing that can see, observe, and be aware of all things that are happening in our inner and outer world.

Candice Wu 14:58

So when you ask, “Who are you? Who are you truly?”, you’re actually the awareness that can witness all the things that are happening, you’re the part of you that watches all of your emotions, thoughts, happenings, all of your actions. And this is the level of the intellect.

Candice Wu 15:18

At this level of our being. The ego-consciousness exists as well. There’s a sense of being, an individual person or feeling like you are separate. And at this individual consciousness, we are clouded by ideas, memories, and experiences that created what in Yoga practice is called Samskara.

Candice Wu 15:43

Samskaras are the belief sets, the ideas, and impressions that we have that have been created over time, and almost created iteration after iteration through experience, that clouds our thinking and understanding because it just confirms and confirms itself. It’s a belief that’s untrue. It’s an idea of yourself and the world or the universe that isn’t true, but we live through.

Candice Wu 16:14

So at this level of healing, when we’re able to tap into that knowing awareness, the part of us that can witness these beliefs that are true or not true, we can affect very powerful healing that can reverberate through the other layers of our being, as long as those layers of our being are also online and engaged in a natural way, in our most optimal and healthy form.

Candice Wu 16:43

So if we can tap into the bliss layer, or the energy of oneness, that’s our best bet. Because we’re tapping into the source of energy, which is underneath all the beliefs, all the beliefs that we think are true in our life, and in the world.

Candice Wu 17:02

And then if we’re going to this level, where we are able to discern, then we can work with what has been our truth, or what do we have thought has been our truth.

Candice Wu 17:14

This is the small “s” self, where we believe we are separate from the source of energy, from the wholeness of all possibility. And we believe something different like, “I’m not enough,” or “I’m unimportant” or “I’m a bad person.” All of these things that we can believe about ourselves, or the way that things work in this universe, that’s this level of ego consciousness, of thinking that this is the way it works for me.

Candice Wu 17:46

So at both of these levels, we can access the most powerful healing because we go to the source of energy, and we go to the source and the root cause of our reality. And from here, whether we want to believe this or not, our intentions from this level, create the reality that we see around us, not only by painting our perception through this lens, but it actually gives and creates and attracts those situations that will match and agree with the beliefs that you have at this level.

Candice Wu 18:24

That’s partially why it’s so tricky to see whether or not beliefs are true or real or not. Because we create the experiences that make them very real to us, that makes them confirmed in our sight, in our experience.

Candice Wu 18:41

So then we go back and say, “Well, it is true that I’m a bad person,” or “It’s true that I am not valuable. And I can’t, I can’t make ”X“ amount of dollars,” or “I can’t do this in my life,” or “I’m not allowed to speak” because this happened.

Candice Wu 18:57

So we find reasons in our external world to confirm those beliefs. Along with that, we not only create the reality that’s outside of us, the relationships that we have, the connections, the way that our world and life is set up, the way your bedroom looks, or your home looks. All of that, on some level, is a spilling out of these belief sets. An experience of what’s on the inside of us, now on the outside.

Candice Wu 19:29

Not only this, but we’re also creating our energetic and physical bodies and the way that we feel inside through these belief sets that we have. This may not be new too at all. But this is the organizational construct that really helps me understand everything and pushes me to take responsibility for the beliefs that I hold, every single, tiny belief reverberates outward.

Candice Wu 19:58

In this level of our physiology, we can work with spiritual practice, Karma Yoga, or Gyana Yoga, which is the study of action, intention, and our deepest parts of self. We can work with forgiveness and resolving statements that help us release belief sets, as well as Family Constellations, which is looking at how we’ve been imprinted with beliefs of who we are, and beliefs of who others are in relation to us, as well as Vedic meditations, when we’re working with mantras, with sounds that can touch into the level of the source of all energy, the source of things, as well as clear up the belief sets that live at this level.

Candice Wu 20:49

So the next level, the next Kosha, is the mental sheath, the mental body, which is Manomaya Kosha and that represents the mind.

Candice Wu 21:03

We usually think of our mind as just our brain, the thoughts, and the brain activity, but, the mind is actually, the first mind is actually in the gut, that gives the brain activity, that gives the information all the way up to our brain to give to the rest of the body.

Candice Wu 21:22

The mental body encompasses the thoughts, emotions, and the feeling sensations that happen inside. So you can begin to see how what we believe in forms, the mental body informs what we think, it informs how our body feels and responds through the lens of those beliefs.

Candice Wu 21:46

We can work with the mental body by sensing inward and doing a mindfulness meditation. For example, feeling the sensations, emotions, thoughts that are happening.

Candice Wu 21:58

Of course, if you’re doing a Yoga practice with poses, you can also tap into this layer. But you can also do Yoga poses without tapping into this layer, by just doing the poses itself without tuning inward and feeling and sensing. You can use it for a pure exercise and not be tuning into the level of the mind, the mental body.

Candice Wu 22:22

You can work with a variety of somatic therapies or somatic healing that tunes into this level of imagery and impulse, sensation, and emotion, as well as the meanings that go to the deeper level, go to the next level of Vijnanamaya Kosha.

Candice Wu 22:39

I use a variety of somatic therapies and healing techniques including Somatic Experiencing, focusing and Family Constellations, which is very much in the body. So anything that’s using the awareness of what’s happening on the inside.

Candice Wu 22:55

The next level of our being, out from there, is the energy body, the energy sheath, which is called Pranamaya Kosha. You might have heard the word Prana before and know it in your own practice. Prana means vital energy or life force.

Candice Wu 23:10

The Prana of the body is the breath. It’s the movement and flow of energy in the body and the breath, as well as the movements of energy that are in cycles, meridians, in Chinese medicine, and also Ayurveda, they’re called channels or meridians. These natural flows of energy are given by our beliefs, by the emotions and whether or not the emotions and sensations are fluid in our body. They will either continue to feel clogged or blocked or flowing and smooth.

Candice Wu 23:50

When we use practices like Pranayama, which are breath techniques in Yoga practice or breath work or working with the energy centers, the Chakras in the body as well as the meridians, the channels of the body, this is through practices in Qi Gong or Chinese medicine, Yoga, and very many indigenous practices, Acupressure or Marma Point therapy, as well as the practice of tapping or EFT, all of these are working with Prana in the body, the energy body.

Candice Wu 24:25

Each of the energy centers in the body, which go from the very base of our body, at the pelvic floor, all the way up the spine, through the central channel of the body, Shushumna, all the way to the top of the head. Each of those Chakras contains the energy of themes in our belief sets. So that it touches all the way back to the level of the intellect, which we talked about already.

Candice Wu 24:51

You can see how everything is so intertwined. And it’s very hard to separate each of these levels into distinct levels that are separate because they’re not. So you can see where the belief sets give way to the Chakras, the energy centers, and the flow of those energy centers all the way to their relationship with the meridians in the body.

Candice Wu 25:17

Each of the meridians connects up with a different theme and emotion and set of functions in the body that also connect thematically. I’m not going to go into each of the Chakras today or each of the meridians today, but you can see how each of these intertwine and connect in a cohesive expression of our physical being, which is the outermost level of our body, the physical body.

Candice Wu 25:52

So it is specifically to say that the energy, the blueprint of our being, starts all the way from our belief sets, and the tendency of our energy over time and goes into the mental body, the sensations and emotions, and thoughts that we have all the way out to the energy, which is the flow of Prana in the body, the flow of the life force in the body, then, that gives the physical body, gives the physical manifestation of the subtle belief sets, the ideas that we hold, which we cannot see, actually create our physical being.

Candice Wu 26:40

So the physical body is the food body. In Sanskrit, it’s called Annamaya Kosha. And Ana means food. It’s the outermost level of our physiology, and it’s the body physically, it’s what we eat, which gives away to how our physical body can manifest itself. And it is our home, our vehicle for knowing ourselves, expressing ourselves and creating. And if we nourish and take care of our bodies, we are able to allow for deeper spiritual knowing and purpose.

Candice Wu 27:19

This is the level of Yoga Asana, the practice of yoga poses that we physically can access. So when we’re doing poses, we are moving our physical body such that it allows access to the deeper levels of who we are.

Candice Wu 27:35

So that is the point of our physical being. It is to be in this human experience, to learn and to evolve. And to really understand what we’re all about, who we are at the deepest levels.

Candice Wu 27:49

The physical level of our being also encompasses our daily rituals, what we eat and put into our body, what we take in through all of our senses, our environment, our home space, and the lifestyle we have.

Candice Wu 28:06

So when we want to take care of this level of our being, we might be doing self-care practices, like having boundaries, and taking space for ourselves, or taking a bath, or eating healthy, eating in a way that feels intuitively balanced to our body, taking care of our home space, so that it feels like it nourishes us and brings us a feeling of beauty or health, having a balanced lifestyle, and daily activities that make us feel like ourselves, and that connect us to feeling that we are here in this body.

Candice Wu 28:47

Healing practices like somatic therapies are also very important at this level, obviously, because we’re connecting with the physical body, the muscles and the tissues of our body. But we’re also sensing into the deeper levels like the sensation and emotion which connect with the mental body and the energy body, which, the flow of how our body wants to move is connected with.

Candice Wu 29:11

So just going back to that idea of how intertwined each of these levels are, we started with the level of oneness and pure consciousness, the source of all energy, and the source of our being that lives through us, and channels its way through the belief sets and impressions that we have of our specific and individual soul and consciousness that’s Vijnanamaya Kosha, then, that gives way to the mental body, the emotions, and sensations and thoughts that we have, all the way to the energy, the flow of our life force in our body that we cannot see but we can feel, and that gives way to the physical body. It gives the tension or fluidity of our muscles, it creates imbalance, or holding in one aspect of our body, or gives the space and openness because energy is flowing inside of us.

Candice Wu 30:12

The way that I use the Koshas in working with my clients is that we look at what level of their physiology needs attention. And sometimes it is just giving your body the space to rest. Sometimes it is just taking a bath more often, and taking that rest. And yet, as someone changes those practices, it also starts to change their beliefs that are about themselves.

Candice Wu 30:43

If you begin to take better care of your body, eat healthier, then everything starts to feel better, then your belief of yourself changes. If you’re not noticing it, it might be very subtle, but who you are, starts to grow and evolve into something else. And maybe you feel more capable of doing things that are more confident and relating to somebody. And so everything just has this ripple effect.

Candice Wu 31:14

If you’re receiving Reiki, Acupuncture, doing Shamanistic work, or visualizing and working with energy and color, then perhaps you’re accessing the energetic level of the body the most. But of course, it’s touching into the other aspects. And it’s going to bleed outward and affect your physical body. It’s going to affect how you feel in your physical body, as well as what you believe about yourself. And so you can see the same for, if we access the level of the body which holds the beliefs, the intellectual body.

Candice Wu 31:50

If you’re touching into the belief that you have of yourself, for example, in order to belong, I have to keep silent or it is my job to be responsible for other people or I am the absorber of negative emotion, you can see how that would affect your physical body if you believe something different.

Candice Wu 32:16

I think the most interesting thing about this level of our being is that we don’t always know what we believe. And it most often takes working with someone who’s gifted at sensing into those beliefs sets or patterns in you that can help you bring to light those beliefs.

Candice Wu 32:38

And when we’re working with the belief sets, it’s like going to the root of the issue, it’s like going to the root of a tree and effecting change from that level. We don’t water a tree by just putting a little drop of water on the leaf, we water it at the root, and we are the same.

Candice Wu 32:58

So when we do illuminate our belief sets, it’s incredibly powerful to effect change all the way out to even our physical body.

Candice Wu 33:07

And in my own experience, when I’ve worked with healing practices that do touch into that, or at least by the time that I trained myself to sense into that and be aware of that, I have completely changed my physical body. I used to walk around with so much tension in my hips. And if I ate certain foods, it would make it worse.

Candice Wu 33:30

So you can see the mixture of belief sets layering up with how I’m treating my body nutritionally. I used to have headaches all the time and heart palpitations, numbness on one side of my body, and with all the different practices that are embodied, that do touch into what I believe about myself as well, the meaning behind things, that’s where that’s been able to release.

Candice Wu 33:57

And now, I feel very fluid in my body, there are still aspects of me that I work on, and then I’m continuing to heal. But I feel a world of a difference. I definitely don’t have headaches anymore, heart palpitations, tension is just little bit in different areas, like around my neck at different times, or maybe at different points of my life, depending on what I’m going through somewhere in my spine but it’s moving through. And it’s part of my process.

Candice Wu 34:25

But the thing about working with belief sets is that if your physical body plus your mental and energetic body aren’t prepared with a capacity to move the energy through of what’s lodged in your body, and what you’re holding in your energy field, then, tapping into a belief set isn’t actually going to do that much. Because you may be just tapping into it logically, from your mental capacity, from the mind, from the sought level, which is actually more like the physical body.

Candice Wu 35:00

It’s when the mental body, when the emotions make its way, all the way up to the brain, from gut to brain. And the brain releases this energy through the format of thoughts. It’s a form that we can understand things in, but it doesn’t always interpret what’s going on correctly.

Candice Wu 35:23

So for just working with our thoughts, and leaving them in the brain only, just talking about things or analyzing our issues from that level, even if we’re looking at our belief sets, if we’re not embodied in it, if the energy and emotion isn’t moving all the way through, completing itself and touching into the level of soul and of heart where we need love, then, it’s not actually making its way out.

Candice Wu 35:57

So we do need to support every single level of our physiology and reclaim all the capacities of our innate being, and all the tools that we have, so that we can release those belief sets that aren’t really, truly, the truth of who we are. So that we can align with the source of our energy, the source of who we all are, the love and the power, the peace, and then knowing that everything is possible, so that we can truly be in touch with spirit, that is spirit.

Candice Wu 36:32

I’ve often had a conversation with people, what is spirit versus soul, and is there a difference?

Candice Wu 36:39

And spirit to me and my experience and my understandings and the practices that I’ve learned, it just in my innate self, in my knowing, feels like it is that oneness, the pure consciousness, the pure energy of all beings. And soul is connected with that, it contains that, as we spoke about the next level of our physiology, but that it does come with the belief sets of who we think we are, that may or may not be true.

Candice Wu 37:13

Spirit does not decipher what’s good or bad. Spirit is all energies, spirit is in all forms. And it doesn’t say that anger is bad, or feeling sad is bad, or having your house burned down is bad. All of it can be utilized and understood as part of things.

Candice Wu 37:38

So when we get to this level spirit, there is an acknowledgment that we are all kinds of energies, and none of it is good or bad. It is all there for us to use as a tool at different times in our life, and to embrace as our wholeness, whether that means distraction or creation, all of it is in our tool belt. All of it is important, and all of it is ours.

Candice Wu 38:10

That means we are both the hero and the villain. We are the parts of us that we reject, as well as the parts that we embrace. But we are those from a place of neutrality. We don’t say that one is better than the other from the level of spirit, because all of those tools are needed. And it’s all understood in this movement and flow, this in and out and expansion and contraction of the universe.

Candice Wu 38:38

It’s only through human consciousness and the earthly consciousness, the ideas that we have about what’s good and bad, and morality, that we live through, that we think certain things are not good or certain things are better. And it’s not the case that’s too rigid.

Candice Wu 39:03

Yes, certain things are better or worse at different times. But not one type of things should be outcasted as wrong or bad. But if we are in alignment with the source of energy, with a source of creation, then, it’s most likely that there will be certain things that don’t feel preferable to us, like killing people.

Candice Wu 39:30

It doesn’t feel good when we are aligned with ourselves truly, and I mean, aligned with self, big “S” self, that’s where there’s true connection with all beings, because it is one.

Candice Wu 39:41

So understanding the Koshas can be really helpful in reclaiming yourself, in looking at the different levels of your being and understanding, where you need the most attention.

Candice Wu 39:52

So if you’re unable to feel your emotions, it may be very helpful to work with both the energy body as well as the mental body, but also your belief sets. What stops you from being able to feel your emotions? Are their beliefs that you have, ideas that you have around emotions that make you stop yourself from feeling?

Candice Wu 40:20

That’s just one example. But getting back to where you can attend to yourself, and truly nourish a level of your being, so it affects all the other levels, and knowing from which place to access from, might be incredibly helpful.

Candice Wu 40:37

It also can be helpful to understand through this lens, how people are speaking with you, and from where they’re talking.

Candice Wu 40:45

When people give me advice, or if I’m looking at other healers or practitioners and seeing what it is that they’re doing, how they’re helping people, I do think about what level of the physiology are they working with? Are they touching it on all levels, especially if they say they’re holistic? What does that really mean?

Candice Wu 41:06

Sometimes people say holistic when they just mean well, we look at work, social life, relationships, and personal life. But to me, holistic means an integration of spirit, soul, mind, energy, and physicality.

Candice Wu 41:27

So this can help you decipher what it is that people are actually offering you when you do look to reach out to a coach or a healer, therapist. And that can help inform what steps you need to take.

Candice Wu 41:42

This has also been a very helpful tool when talking with some of my friends. Because we talk about healing a lot, we talk about what’s going on in our souls, and what themes were working on, how we’re connecting with our spirit, and what’s bringing us alive now. And so, we’re talking about this stuff all the time. And sometimes we help each other with what we’re struggling with.

Candice Wu 42:05

One of my friends can support me in looking at the level of the Spirit, and discerning from the level of spirit, what’s happening?

Candice Wu 42:16

And I’m very good at sensing in and moving through with emotion. So you can see how we’re coming in from different angles. And we can support each other by seeing what’s needed, at what time.

Candice Wu 42:31

So this is what I wanted to share with you today about the Koshas and understanding the different parts of our being. And also to encourage you to feel into what level of your being wants your attention right now? What level of your being wants to be honored?

Candice Wu 42:49

And also to look at how it is that you do create your reality. And, it is, yes, in unison with the universe. You are the universe. Because we are that level of spirit that is underneath everything. But it’s a matter of looking at how clouded we are. How separate we feel, from the whole, that gives away for how we think things work in this life.

Candice Wu 43:21

And so to really look at that and examine who you feel you are, what you think you are, what belief sets you have, that actually create your reality or your perception of reality. And to take a higher level of responsibility for the experiences and things that we create.

Candice Wu 43:41

I am not saying that I’ve mastered this completely, where I can manifest anything that I want to. But I do use this understanding to help me when I do feel blocked. When I do feel like I’m limited or that something is a struggle or stuck in me, that I can see, what it is that I’m believing and where that is living in my body, so that I can release it, complete it, if it wants something. And live from a different place, connect back with source, with the alignment of the universe that lives in this body. So refresh myself and reset all the time.

Candice Wu 44:24

The Koshas can be a bit complicated to understand. I’ve tried to distill it into the simplest words that I can. I’ll attach a PDF of the breakout of these layers of our physiology with some of the ideas on what each level encompasses and how to understand each level. So you can check that out in the show notes at CandiceWu.com/koshas.

Candice Wu 44:52

So this has been very fun to share. I use this all the time. And so if you’ve listened in you might hear me refer to the Koshas at different times in other podcasts and wanted to give this preface so that I could really talk more in depth in the other podcasts about some of the different levels and how I’m understanding healing or what’s going on in the physiology through these levels.

Candice Wu 45:19

If you have questions or experiences that you want to share with me about this, feel free to reach out to me, I appreciate you listening. And I would also love to hear what topics you’re interested in, what you want to know more about or have questions about, or what is it that you’re struggling with in your life or desire for yourself.

Candice Wu 45:41

So as we end today, I’m wishing you all that connection with self, with a big “S”. The connection with just your pure being and the source of your beings that you can feel freely yourself, but in the meantime to all so except wherever you’re at right now. And to know that whatever you’re working with is along the journey towards knowing yourself.

Candice Wu 46:09

Sending my blessings to all of you and I look forward to seeing you next time.

Candice Wu 46:16

And before you go today. I’d invite you to sign up for my bi-monthly newsletters. You can get updates and self-love notes, healing experiences, and workshops by me. And also feel free to check out the Embody Community which is the Facebook group that you can tune into five to 10-minute video clips of healing support and self-love. Take care and see you all next time on the Embody Podcast.