Shifting Shame & Being Visible with Sarah Buino – EP21

Candice Wu 0:00

Welcome to the Embody podcast. This is Candice Wu. Thank you so much for joining me today. I’m excited to introduce our guest speaker for the day. This guest is someone I’m connected to in Chicago, Illinois in the States and I’ve had the pleasure of just watching her practice grow and also admiring her unique style.

Candice Wu 0:19

This guest is Sarah Buino, and she is a licensed Clinical Social Worker and the founder of Head Heart Therapy. She’s also a certified Addictions Counselor, a certified Daring Way Facilitator and adjunct faculty member at Loyola University.

Candice Wu 0:33

She holds a Master’s degree from Loyola University in Chicago and specializes in shame and substance use disorders. And from an early age, Sarah began to share the stage with her mother who was a professional singer, and she sings in a local Chicago band on weekends.

Candice Wu 0:49

Sarah integrates her knowledge of complementary healing modalities such as music, Yoga, Reiki, and the Chakra system into her clinical practice, to help her clients enhance their authenticity. And she is also the host of a podcast called Conversations With A Wounded Healer, which examines the role of one’s own healing while being a caregiving professional.

Candice Wu 1:11

And so in this conversation with Sarah, we discuss her story around kicking and screaming to be able to be my own self, how she started her unique therapy practice, we talk about perfectionism, shame, and the healing vibration in the expression of music being visible in her own choice, and how she nourishes herself to be able to be who she is in the world.

Candice Wu 1:32

Before we jump in, I want to let you know that this episode is brought to you by the Soul Body Women’s Retreat that we’ll adventure in October 2018. This retreat is led by me and it is a labor of love. It’s infused with deep healing prowess, and all the different tools that I have learned over the years and embodied myself, so that each woman can bring their specific intention and or challenges to the table and we can work work with it in a deep and authentic way, so that they can find their own freedom with it and embody what they would like to in their lives.

Candice Wu 2:07

A very special aspect of this retreat this year is that there will be more Family and Spiritual Constellations healing work. Family Constellations gives us a way to work on our healing without having to talk about it very much. It’s completely embodied. If you’re interested in this or learning more, or in finding out about future retreats, you can find out more at CandiceWu.com/retreats and your support in sharing my retreats or joining a retreat helps me to make more healing albums, content, and more podcast episodes and for that, I am deeply grateful. Thank you.

Candice Wu 2:42

And without further ado, here is Sarah Buino.

Candice Wu 2:46

So today, I want to welcome Sarah Buino who is of Head Heart Therapy and I have just loved getting to know Sarah, and I’m thrilled to have you today on this show, Sarah. Welcome.

Sarah Buino 2:57

Thank you. I am very happy to be here.

Candice Wu 3:01

Thank you. So just for our audience, tell us a little bit about you, what you do, and what your gift is in the world.

Sarah Buino 3:09

Sure. So, where do I start? I do a little bit of everything. So, Head Heart Therapy is the name of my practice. We are currently 14 therapists strong and we mostly specialize in addiction, and the tagline for Head Heart is, “unique therapy for unique people.” Because I really wanted to create a place where people who consider themselves not necessarily fitting inside the normal box, where they would feel comfortable going to therapy.

Sarah Buino 3:40

I remember just being told in grad school, like, you know, you got to take out your nose ring for interviews and hide your tattoos and I was like, “You know what, that’s crap.”

Sarah Buino 3:50

Can I cuss on here? Or no?

Candice Wu 3:52

Yes, you can.

Sarah Buino 3:53

Okay, that’s bullshit is what I really wanted to say them, and I just thought there needs to be a place for people who look like me to come to have therapy and so that’s kind of the thought process behind it and a lot of our therapists also specialize in additional healing modalities such as Yoga, Tai Chi, Reiki, Hypnosis, because we really try to be holistic, and offer some things that may not be offered in traditional psychotherapy, so that’s Head Heart.

Sarah Buino 4:26

And I also am an adjunct professor at Loyola, I teach a couple of alcohol and drug-related classes there. I currently run groups in several different treatment centers. And I have a podcast too which you were just on.

Candice Wu 4:43

Your podcast is fantastic.

Sarah Buino 4:45

Thank you!

Candice Wu 4:47

You’re welcome. I’m so grateful that you had that centering in yourself to see that what you needed to do was just be yourself and put that out into the world and that there would be people like you, and that’s exactly what I see. Like, you’re just putting yourself out there in such an authentic way, increasingly, and that’s been an inspiration to me, Sarah.

Sarah Buino 5:07

Thank you. It’s funny, I’d like to say that I kind of like opened up to it slowly. But I really have been kicking and screaming my whole life to be able to be my authentic self, and it really wasn’t until I became my own boss where I just I could, without consequence. So really, you know, it’s all a product of my own narcissism, maybe, I don’t know, not narcissism, but just this desire to continue to live out loud without, I guess I was going to say without judgment, but people can still judge, I just don’t give a fuck if they do.

Candice Wu 5:36

Right. I totally understand that feeling and in a way, you have to do that just to be yourself out there in the world, because there can be so much.

Candice Wu 5:45

I just got done listening to the song that you put on your blog. And I just felt so touched — about perfectionism. And yeah, what you wrote about it was, it sounds a bit like what we’re talking about is, you’ve been accused of showing off all your life and yet this sharing wasn’t about that, it was about communicating, expressing in a way that could touch people differently.

Sarah Buino 6:13

Thanks. I forgot — it’s funny people bring that up every once in awhile, I’m like, “Oh, shit, I forgot I did that.” Yeah, I did. I was at the time, I was intending to do it regularly so it made sense, so it’s kind of a weird, little anomaly sitting there on my blog now. But I mean, I’ve always been able to express myself through singing in a way that I couldn’t always with speaking, and so that’s part of why I did that. Yeah.

Candice Wu 6:39

It’s really beautiful and it feels so encouraging especially, I just know that you touched so many people with how you put yourself out there. I’m wondering, from you, as you’re doing your work out there and encouraging your whole team, what do you feel is the key to healing? Or, and I can’t say “The Key”, because that’s just the right question. Right? But what’s one thing that you’ve been thinking about in terms of healing or therapy that is just so powerful for people?

Sarah Buino 7:10

You know, I think what’s been coming up for me lately, I feel like I’ve been presented with people who struggle with denial in their lives and when I go back to my family of origin, that’s really like, the main struggle that I had in my family of origin is that there was so much denial around things not being the way that probably mostly my mother wanted them to be, that feelings were then disavowed for that reason and so it’s interesting that it’s kind of it’s coming around in my life again.

Sarah Buino 7:41

And what I’ve recognized is that denial is this mechanism to dissociate from shame, really, and I think that probably one of my greatest strengths was getting into Brené Brown’s work as early as I did, not only for my career professionally, but also personally, because doing the shame work now for the past, I think it’s probably been about eight years since I started reading her work and that’s — it’s my way of life is recognizing when I’m in shame.

Sarah Buino 8:16

Like, I was having a discussion with a friend, actually. So a friend had a birthday party, and our other mutual friend is sober and she decided not to go to the birthday party, and I was like, “Oh, no, I want you to be there.” And then I went to the party, and I’m not drinking right now and so I was totally sober. And afterward, I sent her a message and was like, “Hey, you would have been — you would have been totally done fine at the party, would have been great. There’s no big deal. And next time blah…” And she sends me a message back and she’s like, actually, not quite right. You know, I don’t want to go. I realized I don’t like parties and it’s not about the alcohol, it’s not about this and that.

Sarah Buino 8:22

And the feeling of shame that came over me when she said that was it was just like, you’re a bad friend. You know, and, and I’ve gotten so good at recognizing the shame really quickly. Because I started feeling this icky feeling inside and my initial instinct would be to get pissed at her for, I don’t know what like, I don’t know what my irrational mind would be like, you know, that she had done wrong in any way. But the initial reaction is to kind of run away from that feeling. But instead, I messaged her back and I’m like, I sucked it up. I am really sorry.

Sarah Buino 9:34

And we had this lovely conversation about the whole concept of Rift and Repair, and how we are deepening our friendship by being able to have conversations like that and that is a gift of being able to really recognize and be resilient from my shame. So I think that is a major key to healing.

Candice Wu 9:58

Absolutely like that, just recognizing that it’s happening and that way, you found a way out of it, and then it brought you such closeness and connection with your friend. That’s huge.

Candice Wu 10:09

And in the work of shame, have you found anything that’s just been really interesting for you, or surprising?

Sarah Buino 10:18

The surprising thing, I guess, is the things that might cause me shame or the things that might cause other people shame and the thing that I always, you know, tell my clients is that shame is in the eye of the beholder, right, just like beauty and I can’t tell you whether or not you should be experiencing shame, given any situation. And I mean, we can’t tell anybody what feelings they should be experiencing period. But especially shame, I think in order to “A” try to fix it or “B” try to push it away, we “Oh, you shouldn’t feel ashamed about that.” Right?

Sarah Buino 10:52

Because my friend actually started to kind of do that and recognize like, no, that’s not the right thing to say in response to that. But she had said something like, “I don’t want you to feel that way. Because I don’t feel that’s necessary, but I understand that’s your process.”

Sarah Buino 11:05

So I think that’s really surprising. One of the really stupid things that causes me a lot of shame is driving. Whenever somebody criticizes my driving, and you probably know this via Facebook, but I have a purple car right now and I realized how fucking visible I am. I can’t drive like a dick ever because everybody sees me and like, I hear people all the time say, “Oh, I see you driving around all the time.” And I’m like, shit. I can’t even pick my nose in my car anymore, like, I’m so visible. Right?

Candice Wu 11:42

Completely.

Sarah Buino 11:43

So, it’s just really funny how, whenever, you know, somebody honks at me, like insinuating that I’ve done something wrong, I feel shame. You know, logically, it’s such a ridiculous thing, because I’m not a bad person if I make a mistake driving but it elicits that.

Candice Wu 12:01

I completely know that feeling. And when I lived in Chicago and in Michigan, I experienced that. And the thing is, when I volunteered in Sri Lanka, I think it was maybe eight years ago, seven or eight years ago, I heard them just beep at everything. They were beeping at the house in the middle of the road. People walking, but not in the same way, like the beep had a different feel. It was just like, “Boop…”

Sarah Buino 12:33

Oh, wow!

Candice Wu 12:34

And I experience a different feel of energy behind someone’s beep in Chicago.

Sarah Buino 12:42

Yeah, thank you for validating that because, and someone was even saying at this party I was at last night that we drive like dicks in Chicago. And I agree. I’ve become a true Chicagoan.

Candice Wu 12:51

Yeah, so I mean, I can understand that and just to add a little more flavor, in Bali, Indonesia, where I am now, sometimes the beeping is, well, they’re different driving rules here. It’s that you’re responsible for everything that’s in front of you even if someone zooms out of the side, and they don’t see you or they don’t look, because they know you’re responsible.

Candice Wu 12:52

Like motorbike —

Sarah Buino 13:01

Is that it?

Candice Wu 13:20

Yeah, people on motorbikes will = so the driving is on the left side and so they’ll turn from my left, they’ll turn on to the road, taking a left onto the road, and not look at all, but they’ll stay right at the edge. So you always have to see, right? So the beeping comes into play where if you want them to know you’re next to them, or right behind them, you do a little beep and sometimes they beep back.

Candice Wu 13:50

I wasn’t sure what to take of that for a while. It was like, “Are they mad at me? Did I do something wrong? Did they not like the beep?”

Sarah Buino 13:58

What does that mean? Huh?

Candice Wu 13:59

After a while, I started to think they were just replying. Like, “Yep, gotcha.”

Sarah Buino 14:04

Oh, it’s just a conversation. That’s cute.

Candice Wu 14:07

Yeah. So it’s so interesting that I mean, I think that there’s something to the shame, in Chicago at least, but just relating to you and your story here.

Sarah Buino 14:20

Yeah.

Candice Wu 14:21

Yeah. So you also did the Brené Brown — was it the Daring Greatly program?

Sarah Buino 14:26

Yes, Certified Daring Way Facilitator. Yes.

Candice Wu 14:29

Yeah. And are you doing that work now?

Sarah Buino 14:32

Yeah, that’s what I mostly use in the treatment centers. So there — she has two curriculums, one called Daring Greatly, and one called, Rising Strong, or it’s the Daring Way, actually, the Daring Way and Rising Strong. And so I use those curriculums in drug and alcohol treatment centers right now.

Candice Wu 14:50

Yeah, I recently saw a quote, that was requoted by a friend of mine, that addiction is about relationships and it just felt like it hit the right spot for me. I’m wondering what your thoughts are about that?

Sarah Buino 15:03

Well, I think I wonder if that’s in response or in correlation with Johann Hari’s TED Talk. It’s called Everything We Know About Addiction Is Wrong and he wrote a book called, Chasing The Scream, I can’t remember when that came out but it’s been several years now. And he basically talks about addiction treatment in the United States and how we’re doing it wrong, because a lot of it is about punishment and consequences. And he says at the end of his TED Talk, the opposite of addiction is not sobriety, its connection and I do hugely believe that it is absolutely about connection.

Sarah Buino 15:39

I had a supervisor tell me when I was in training in my internship at Harbor view, he said, “Everybody needs accountability, structure, and support, cover your ass in early sobriety.” And I wholeheartedly subscribe to that with my clients and I’m always thinking encouraging them to create that accountability, structure, and support no matter what that looks like. Because that does seem to be a huge antidote.

Candice Wu 16:06

Yeah, it makes sense. There’s in the work I’m doing with Family Constellations, I can see where it’s the disconnection that causes even more withdrawal into addiction and it becomes this placeholder for where the connection was lost.

Sarah Buino 16:22

Right. I think too, it’s not just again, kind of going back to shame and denial, it’s not just disconnection with each other, but disconnection with ourselves. And I think that’s what shame, I guess, intends to do.

Sarah Buino 16:36

If we can kind of personify it as a thing that is trying to accomplish a goal, I think it is trying to accomplish disconnection. And when we’re not able to tolerate the shame, then often denial is one of the defense mechanisms that get in the way of knowing our true self and that’s what I see with a lot of my clients is a lack of knowing of their true selves.

Sarah Buino 17:01

It’s funny because I think in general therapy, you know, we really talk about, you know, “Oh, the client has all the answers and yadda…” And I think that’s true. I do believe that everybody has the answer inside them. But most of the people that I work with, have no idea that it’s in there, and they don’t have any idea how to access their authentic voice. I guess that’s what I tried to do using what I know about human behavior as well as intuition and I’m just going to say psychic ability, because I think that all therapists have that. You know that, spidey-sense? I like to call it a therapist’s spidey sense.

Candice Wu 17:41

Yeah.

Sarah Buino 17:41

For, you know, kind of intuiting what’s going on with a client even when they may not know?

Candice Wu 17:46

Yeah, absolutely. I do believe we all have that.

Candice Wu 17:50

So you help people feel connected with themselves and find their voice. And I just love that you bring in music and your voice and I have so many questions about that. Like, one question I have is, what song is really lighting you up or just leaving you mesmerized now?

Sarah Buino 18:12

That’s a good question. You know, to be really honest, I am just finding my way back to music.

Sarah Buino 18:20

I had a friendship end. A friendship that was really important to me and a friendship that was centered on music. And when that friendship ended, I kind of close the door on music for quite a while. It’s been about seven months since I’ve really let myself listen to music again. But I feel like the spring is somehow shifting a lot of that grief and opening me up in a different way.

Sarah Buino 18:50

And a friend of mine had posted on Facebook, I think it was last week and might have even been last Sunday, actually and it was 20 albums. You know, what 20 albums have influenced you in your life and I noticed he chose Patty Griffin’s album. I can’t even — Living with Ghosts, I think it’s called. And the first song on that album is called Moses and it’s so heart-wrenching and beautiful, and it’s perfectly right in my range.

Sarah Buino 19:22

So last Sunday, I was actually going to meet Livia for brunch and so driving up to Evanston takes about a half an hour and I literally played that song on loop and just sang it at the top of my lungs in the car.

Candice Wu 19:36

It feels like broke open here.

Sarah Buino 19:39

Yeah, it really did. This has never happened to me before in my life to lose music. It’s funny because my therapist practices Shamanism as well and so she’s very into ceremony. You know, Susan, right? Susan Lipshutz?

Candice Wu 19:54

Yes. Yeah.

Sarah Buino 19:55

So she encouraged me to do a fire ceremony where I let go of this grief, and all the things that I was experiencing at the end of this friendship and call the things back to me that I felt had been taken. And music was one of those things. And after that, this broke open. So yeah.

Candice Wu 20:16

Yeah, it’s so interesting how we can just close the door, and it can close on certain parts of us that we just actually didn’t want to let go of, and to consciously call that back. It’s really powerful. That’s amazing. And I’m glad you did because it seems like such a part of you.

Sarah Buino 20:35

Yeah, it really is. It’s always been, I guess, at home, you know, I always thought whenever I was younger, and people would be like, “Oh, like, think of your happy place.” And I could never think of a happy place but I know that I’m always feeling at home in myself when I’m singing.

Candice Wu 20:56

There’s an experience that I had where I was, I was in a lot of pain from a certain medical procedure I had and I was in the car, I was driving, I was okay to drive. But I was just in a lot of pain. I was like breathing. I felt like I was even sort of like having pregnancy breathing, you know. And then at some point, I just started to sing, and it completely changed the pain. It just melted it away. And so, I can understand that and the vibration of that for me, it just made it all fade away.

Sarah Buino 21:33

You know, and it’s funny, I’ve never really thought about the physicality of the vibration that’s happening. But you’re exactly right. There’s got to be something shifting energetically because of the vibration of singing, literally never thought about that. That’s crazy.

Candice Wu 21:50

Yeah, and there’s so much that can be communicated through singing that isn’t through just voice, just words and it just so many sounds we hit and so singing makes you feel like you’re at home and I’m also curious what else nourishes you? You do so much for the world, for your community, you are just out there, sister. You’re just out there.

Sarah Buino 22:15

I am. It’s so weird.

Candice Wu 22:19

Yeah.

Sarah Buino 22:20

It’s funny, like, I make myself visible and then I’m like, “Oh shit, I’m fucking visible.”

Sarah Buino 22:24

I forgot about — I didn’t even think about that. Yeah.

Candice Wu 22:24

Right, like the purple car.

Candice Wu 22:29

Well, it also seems like your nature is, this is just what you love. Like you wanted a purple car and then “Oh, gosh, you’re so visible and,” —

Sarah Buino 22:39

Right.

Candice Wu 22:40

I don’t know, I just had the picture that it’s also perhaps that people in the world are learning to be more themselves and not the conformed idea of what things should be and purple, I know a lot of people who love purple.

Sarah Buino 22:57

Right? I mean, they should make purple cars, period. But until they do, I’ll lead the charge, fine.

Candice Wu 23:05

My mom’s first car was purple. Just saying.

Sarah Buino 23:09

In Michigan, or where was she?

Candice Wu 23:10

In Michigan. Yeah.

Sarah Buino 23:12

Wow! Trendsetter.

Candice Wu 23:15

Right. You and her just right up there.

Sarah Buino 23:19

Awesome. So you’d asked about nourishing myself, I spend so much time and money on self-care. It’s not even funny. I probably should add up how much I spend on self-care in a month because it’s pretty astronomical, I would imagine.

Sarah Buino 23:34

So, I have my therapist, I have a woman that I see for supervision and consultation. I go to Al-Anon. I go to Refuge Recovery. I get Somatic therapy. I get Acupuncture. I work out and I spend time with people I love.

Candice Wu 23:56

It’s the concoction. The perfect concoction for you.

Sarah Buino 24:00

Yeah, I have a lot of support. Oh, and I have a group of women who also own group practices that we connect on a regular basis. And so that’s another really nourishing community.

Candice Wu 24:15

That’s so great. Especially when they’re challenging.

Sarah Buino 24:17

Yes. Bianca is in that.

Candice Wu 24:19

I remember you speaking to that. That’s wonderful.

Candice Wu 24:22

I remember connecting with Bianca and in other groups where, especially as practice owners, challenges would come up, and it was just such a supportive group. And, as you are continuing to grow your practice, and now you are opening an IOP, what challenges do you come across, business-wise, or maybe personally that come in?

Sarah Buino 24:47

Kind of, I guess, rewinding back to the early days of my training with Brené Brown and her team, I met a guy named Robert Hilliker, it’s funny, I instantly, the first time I saw him, I’m like, “You and I are going to do some shit.”

Sarah Buino 25:01

I remember, he said that he was working at the Menninger Center, which is in Houston and they work with professionals with addiction issues and I was working at a place in Chicago that was dealing with professionals with addiction issues.

Sarah Buino 25:15

And so I went up to him and I was like, “You buddy, like, let’s be friends.” And I could tell like, he was kind of, you know, I’m sure you do this, and I do this now too, or I’m kind of like, “Okay, like, calm down, like, I know, I’m cool. And you want to hang out with me, but like, let’s chill.”

Sarah Buino 25:30

I could feel that energy from him but inside I was like, “No, we’re going to do some shit.”

Sarah Buino 25:38

He ended up training me throughout the time that I was doing the Daring Way training, and then he’s getting his doctorate from a school in Chicago, and so he would be here about every six weeks, and we just started hanging out and getting dinner and talking, and kind of like, watching each other’s careers.

Sarah Buino 25:58

And it was probably after I got the gig at Loyola and he’s like, “Oh shit, you’re like really doing some stuff, aren’t you?” And I was like, “Kind of think I am.” And he’s like, “We should totally go into business together.” And I was like, “Okay, sure.” And now we are.

Sarah Buino 26:15

So he has a place in Houston called the Lovett Center, which is, it’s like a 15,000 square foot space, that’s a co-working space for therapists, as well as a group practice, and an intensive outpatient.

Sarah Buino 26:29

And for anybody listening, intensive outpatient is essentially about nine hours of group per week, instead of doing like one hour of individual therapy a week, you’re in with people, you know, three to four days a week for several hours. And it’s just for people who need a more intensive, structured way of healing.

Sarah Buino 26:52

So he is ridiculously successful in Houston and so we’re trying to put up that model here. And I really love the way that the model works in Houston, instead of talking about levels of care, which is usually what we do, right, we say IOP, and then outpatient and aftercare and all those terms. But he talks about restoration, transformation, and integration.

Sarah Buino 27:17

And that’s so in line with, I want to say Head Hearts brand, but that’s very a business-speak. But it’s in line with Head Hearts mission and Head Hearts values, right, is that we need to restore our whole souls really recovering from addiction is about transformation. When people tell me, “Oh, I can’t wait to get back to my regular life.” I always stopped them and say, “No, you’re never going back there. Because that’s what got you here. We need a new life. You need to transform.”

Candice Wu 27:46

I want you to say more but I was just feeling so touched by these words, and absolutely, it just resonates with every fiber of my being. And it feels like, yes, it feels like the world of that work of intensive outpatient, of having nine hours a day, can just bring that language and it just already has so much compassion in it, we need that.

Sarah Buino 28:10

Right, and I think the other piece of this, too, that is extremely important for me is, you know, there’s a lot of treatment centers that have either, because of bureaucracy or because of personalities, there’s a lack of health. And I’m sure you know, as well as any other person in the healthcare industry knows that the insurance industry is driving clinical choices and healthcare, and it’s bullshit.

Sarah Buino 28:40

And so we really are going to strive as much as we can to be a healthy organization from the top down. And my staff, it’s funny, we’ve been doing some group interviews lately, interviewing some new therapist, and I asked the staff to say, you know, talk about, you know, what does it mean to work here and what does it mean to be authentic and wholehearted?

Sarah Buino 29:02

One of my staff was like, “We can’t get away with shit, because Sarah doesn’t let herself get away with shit.” And that’s what I want. Right? Like, that’s what I want to trickle down to the clients too, is that I’m not going to not look at my own shit, I’m not going to let the staff get away with anything and so you’re not going to get away with anything, either. We’re all holding ourselves accountable and holding each other accountable.

Candice Wu 29:24

And there’s so much seeing and trusting and it feels like seeing every bit of everything, and just allowing it to be spoken, nothing silenced.

Sarah Buino 29:34

And when you say it like that, that’s the exact opposite of my childhood, and so I am patting myself on the back right now for creating the life that I wanted.

Candice Wu 29:43

Yes.

Sarah Buino 29:44

You know.

Candice Wu 29:44

Yes, congratulations! And thank you for doing that because it gives so much for everyone else as well.

Sarah Buino 29:51

It’s funny how in doing your own work, it all works, right? If you are really on your authentic path to healing, you can’t help but build that out over to everybody else. I think even regardless of what field you’re in, you know.

Candice Wu 30:08

Absolutely. And I think that with what you’re saying and what I’m feeling for myself lately, as well, with the podcast, there was this real challenge in it, was like financially and at some point, I was like, “No -”

Sarah Buino 30:20

It’s not cheap.

Candice Wu 30:22

Right.

Sarah Buino 30:22

People don’t know this, it is not cheap to do this shit.

Candice Wu 30:25

Not at all.

Sarah Buino 30:27

This shit ain’t free. It’s free for you, but not for us.

Candice Wu 30:29

It’s like shockingly uncheap.

Sarah Buino 30:32

Right.

Candice Wu 30:33

Little did I know and yet, I felt even more driven after that to continue on, because I found why I wanted to do it, and it was the deepest reasons are for me, not for everyone else. And I think that’s when things truly grow to their best is that it is rooted in what we want and it’s not a selfish thing. It’s a very self-loving thing to do. And then it just flourishes.

Sarah Buino 31:00

And it’s because too, we’re not alone, you know, if we were the only people who had these issues, therapy would not exist, period. But the reason that people listen to your podcast and my, I think they feel very similar. Right. And I think they listened because they relate.

Candice Wu 31:17

Yeah, and that’s really what I want to communicate is that we’re human. We’re all human, therapists are human, healers are human, we’re not sitting there just being Zen all day.

Sarah Buino 31:31

Well, and that kind of goes back to your second part of the question about what comes up for me in business and I tell you, perfectionism.

Sarah Buino 31:39

So I realized it earlier in my life that I didn’t do anything that I wasn’t inherently good at and I happened to be blessed enough to be good at a lot of things. So I could really avoid not doing things that I wasn’t good at but as a business owner, and as an entrepreneur, and someone who’s really trying to grow into something bigger, I am really bad at a lot of this shit.

Sarah Buino 32:06

And my business partner, Robert, we just had a conversation yesterday because he’s a person who’s really pretty good at everything and I continuously compare myself to him, and because he’s younger than me, so I think I should fucking have more life experience or something, but I just keep going back to self-compassion, because I’m supposed to learn this lesson about perfectionism. Otherwise, I wouldn’t be put in the spot. Like, I avoided dealing with it for a really long time, because I could hide from it by doing everything I was good at and now I just can’t hide anymore.

Sarah Buino 32:47

At least once a week, I’ll be in tears about feeling the shame of not being good at something, whether it’s money stuff, or stumbling with management questions, or just like — right now, there’s just this general feeling of there’s so much to be done but I don’t know where to start and or, I don’t know exactly what needs to be done because I’m building something, even though we’re bringing it from Houston, there’s a model in Chicago. It’s from scratch, and I’m not doing it myself, because I’ve got Robert but here, I’m alone. I have my staff and all of that. But like I’m, I told him yesterday, I’m like, the emotional labor of birthing this is, I was like, I don’t know that you understand how significant this feels to me and how clear it is to me that everybody’s eyes are on me right now and that’s a lot of pressure.

Candice Wu 33:42

Well, then —

Sarah Buino 33:45

I’m just trying to be compassionate with myself about that because it’s a reality. I realized at a certain point a couple of years ago, I am never going to have a day again, where I don’t have 50 unread emails in my email, that’s just not going to happen ever again and I have to be okay, with not being able to do everything.

Candice Wu 34:06

I find that when I’m birthing something, as you’re saying, when I’m creating something, when I’m lifting something off the ground into action, the challenges that I’m receiving in myself, if I don’t face them, it prolongs the process of things moving through or people coming in on the other end. And then when I do breakthrough, if I do, usually I do, because I just don’t like to leave it that way undone.

Candice Wu 34:34

But if it breaks through, and I experienced people coming in, like I’m speaking specifically for my retreat last year, I saw that a lot of the people that were coming in, were experiencing the same kind of belief set that I was working through, or that I had worked through, and that I was in a different place at that point to receive them. And it’s like, just completely necessary for me to go through those emotions and then when you think about addiction and IOP, like a community of people in a group that wants to do this deep work, of course, perfectionism is going to be huge. It’s like you’re bursting the healing of perfectionism through you, as this comes out.

Sarah Buino 35:24

Oh, well, we’ll see about that. I’ll let you know.

Candice Wu 35:27

And that may be a, you know, an ongoing process, of course.

Sarah Buino 35:31

Yeah, it’s a lot. And you know, as you were talking, I was just thinking about how often, yeah, I’ll be with a client, I only see clients one day a week now. But I find that they’re always themes of the day and usually the themes are something that I am also dealing with as well. So it’s this beautiful, parallel process that we’re always having.

Candice Wu 35:54

Yeah, it’s this like evolving and dance of the unconscious stuff that’s coming through both of us, all of us.

Candice Wu 36:02

So let’s shake things up, Sarah. I want to just ask a few questions. I think this is very fun to do, this is the lightning round and I’m just going to toss out a few questions and whatever comes to you, through your heart, your mind, feel free to share. Ready?

Sarah Buino 36:16

Okay.

Candice Wu 36:17

Okay. Let’s start with this one since you’ve referred to the work that you’re doing now. What job would you be terrible at?

Sarah Buino 36:25

Oh, fuck, I had, Oh, what job would I be terrible at? I would be a terrible actuary.

Candice Wu 36:31

What’s that?

Sarah Buino 36:32

Numbers and details? Nope. Just nope.

Candice Wu 36:37

Okay, what do you spend the most time thinking about right now?

Sarah Buino 36:42

Work. 100% and trying to remember all the things that I need to do.

Candice Wu 36:47

Sounds like a long list.

Sarah Buino 36:48

Yes.

Candice Wu 36:49

Okay. And what’s something you like to do the old fashioned way?

Sarah Buino 36:52

I still like books. I don’t think I’m ever going to get into reading a Kindle. I like to highlight in the book.

Candice Wu 36:58

Oh, yeah. Totally old school way. Right.

Sarah Buino 37:01

Totally.

Candice Wu 37:02

Feel the pages —

Sarah Buino 37:05

I need to see my own highlight.

Candice Wu 37:06

I recently saw a therapist post on Facebook, a page out of Mercer Mayer’s books. Do you know Mercer Mayer?

Sarah Buino 37:13

No. Are they mice?

Candice Wu 37:18

Don’t even know what they are. But they’re cute characters and they came with audio of the story and I love these books. And she pulled out a page that said something like, “I felt like crying but I didn’t and I was brave instead.”

Sarah Buino 37:33

Oh, yeah. And then she crossed it out and said — yeah, I saw that, too. I don’t remember who that was.

Candice Wu 37:40

Yeah. I just met her on Facebook and I’ll just leave a shout out to her in the links or something in the show notes. But she said she crossed it out and said something like, “I felt sad and cried and was brave through.” I don’t know if you’re feeling it or what — it was much more eloquent than what I’m saying.

Sarah Buino 38:00

And I was also brave, I think.

Candice Wu 38:02

Yeah. That’s it. Love that. Let’s write in all the books and shift the shame out of everything. Right?

Sarah Buino 38:09

Yes.

Candice Wu 38:10

Okay. When was the last time you changed your opinion or your belief about something?

Sarah Buino 38:18

I guess this is a little big. But I guess that it’s a big question anyway. But I have a couple of clients of mine who voted for Trump and I am opposite of a Trump lover and so it was shocking to me to find out that they had voted for Trump. But I think I’d had in my head, a picture of what a Trump voter was and all of the attributes one might give to that person and they are very different from the clients that I have that voted for him. And so I decided at that point, not to hate Trump voters, because I really love these clients that I have, and that I haven’t changed my mind about Trump, the person, but I’ve changed my mind about Trump voters.

Candice Wu 39:12

That’s huge. It’s such a big thing in our country right now and in the world. But —

Sarah Buino 39:17

Yeah.

Candice Wu 39:18

— just little bridges like that.

Sarah Buino 39:20

If only it were the US. Yeah.

Candice Wu 39:23

Right. Okay. Well, I think I will end it with one last question that’s just maybe a little more fun. But what’s something you feel that most people would be curious or intrigued to know about you?

Sarah Buino 39:35

I had pet skunks as a child.

Candice Wu 39:39

You did not!

Sarah Buino 39:42

Well, my dad did and we did not live with my dad. But he had skunks over the years. There were four of them. Ratzo 1, Ratzo 2, Ratzo 3, and Chloe. I don’t know where Chloe came from. But yeah, my dad liked to bring home weird animals. There was one time he brought home an alligator and my mom was like, “Nope.”

Candice Wu 40:05

Oh, my!

Sarah Buino 40:06

They put it in the bathtub. We had ducklings. I stepped on my first baby duck and killed it, which was a very traumatic pet death. Yes. My first traumatic pet death. And yeah, and the skunks, so I have had many exotic animals.

Candice Wu 40:23

Wow. Did you ever get sprayed?

Sarah Buino 40:26

No, they have to take them out in order to sell them. Okay.

Candice Wu 40:29

Oh, wow. That’s interesting.

Sarah Buino 40:30

Skunks would do. Yeah, they would do their little dance, I’m going to spray you and they’d be just like pissed if you like corner them, and then they do the little stomp, and they put their tail up, but nothing comes out. It’s pretty cute.

Candice Wu 40:42

Yeah, sounds like it. Except they’re just pissed.

Sarah Buino 40:45

But they’re still so cute because they can’t get away. They run really slow and their tails are so thick you can actually pick them up by their tail.

Candice Wu 40:53

Oh.

Sarah Buino 40:54

And it’s not actually abusive like it should, their tails are made to be that strong, because that’s how the mother would carry them around. So it’s kind of adorable.

Candice Wu 41:03

It sounds so fun. I think to have a pet skunk.

Sarah Buino 41:06

You could. I mean, they’re just like, you know, if you had a ferret, it smells like a ferret. It’s a rodent. So it smells like a rodent because it’s got a very oily coat, but they go in litter boxes. So they’re not very different from cats. They just can’t jump.

Candice Wu 41:19

I didn’t know that.

Sarah Buino 41:21

While their legs are probably like, not even the length of my finger. So —

Candice Wu 41:25

Right.

Sarah Buino 41:26

There tiny, little, stubby legs, don’t go very far.

Candice Wu 41:29

Thank you so much, Sarah, for joining me. It’s really fun to talk to you. Is there anything else you want to share today before we end?

Sarah Buino 41:37

I mean, I guess the last thing I would just love to share my podcast is called Conversations with a Wounded Healer. And as I said before, I think our podcast both have very similar feels. So if any of your listeners, if they like your podcast, they’ll probably like mine too. So —

Candice Wu 41:53

Absolutely.

Sarah Buino 41:54

You can find me in all the same places.

Candice Wu 41:56

Yes. And where can people find you?

Sarah Buino 41:58

So, headhearttherapy.com is our website and they can pretty much find everything on there. The Conversations with a Wounded Healer, we also have a Facebook page for that. And yeah, we’re on Facebook and Twitter and Instagram and
Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, Google Play, and Spotify, all the places.

Candice Wu 42:17

Great. Thank you so much. And last thing, Sarah, you’re holding a retreat for therapists. Is that right?

Sarah Buino 42:22

Yeah, we haven’t figured out the details. But I think Livia Budrys and I are actually meeting tomorrow to try to pull the trigger on where we’re going to have it. We want to do one, I think we’ll do one here in the States and then we’re going to try to do one out of the country in the winter.

Candice Wu 42:36

Yeah, I saw this little shout out for any good locations in the area. Excellent. I can’t wait to hear more. Good. Well, thank you so much.

Sarah Buino 42:46

Ditto.

Candice Wu 42:47

As we come down to the end of our episode, I can’t help but feel inspired by Sarah’s just putting herself out there in the world and going for it in her completely special way, and I can use some of that in my own life.

Candice Wu 43:01

I am so grateful that you joined us today and listened in and as always you can find Sarah’s information in the show notes on my website at CandiceWu.com/podcast.

Candice Wu 43:12

Before you go, I’d also like to invite you to listen to other episodes on that same link, or become a member of my weekly newsletter and the Embodied Community at CandiceWu.com/embody where you can get lots of free resources, different meditations, and information about events coming up. Thanks again and see you next time on the Embody Podcast.