Candice Wu 0:00

This episode is with psychologist Bianka Hardin, who is a friend, colleague, and previous supervisor. In this episode, Bianka shares her journey into developing more safety and enjoyment in her life, as well as exploring personal agency, how we can get in our own way, and the body-centered and relational model of NARM which is the NeuroAffective Relational Model.

Candice Wu 0:25

Hello and welcome. You’re listening to the Embody Podcast, a show about remembering and embodying your true nature, inner wisdom, embodied healing, and self-love.

Candice Wu 0:38

My name is Candice Wu and I’m a holistic healing facilitator, intuitive coach, and artist sharing my personal journey of vulnerability, offering meditations, and guided healing support, and having co-creative conversations with healers and wellness practitioners from all over the world.

Candice Wu 0:59

This episode is supported by the Embodied Healing Group call which is a once a month call where you can get support for soul, body, heart, and spirit. This is a transformative way to both receive healing support at a lower cost than individual sessions, gain the support of others in a loving compassionate experience, as well as support the podcast.

Candice Wu 1:22

In each online call you’ll receive transformative tools in moving through your emotions, tuning into your intuition, and developing your empowerment in your body wisdom, as well as clearing limiting beliefs through your entire being, and opening up your soul, body, and heart to what you want to explore and what you desire in your life. I love these groups because we just open up to the magic of your being, to show us what’s needed. You can find all the information for this on Patreon at CandiceWu.com/patreon.

Candice Wu 1:56

So this is really fun, to have Bianka on the show. Bianka really taught me how to live the experience of self-care and to be congruent with the words that I say about self-care, in my life and in my workplace.

Candice Wu 2:11

So I worked with Bianka at Centered Therapy Chicago for about two and a half years as a holistic psychotherapist, and this was just a wonderful place for me to develop my early skills in combining all the different modalities of what I was offering. So, it’s always a little off the beaten path and on the fringe of healing work and psychotherapy. And Bianka just gave me all this trust for me to find my voice, combining family constellations, combining somatic therapies, and indigenous practices as well as Yoga and Ayurveda and just all the different ways that I connected energetically and spiritually. So I really wanted to have her on the show, and talk about her and celebrate her as well.

Candice Wu 3:01

She’s a licensed clinical psychologist and the owner of Centered Therapy Chicago, and she has the mission to help children, adolescents, and adults improve their mental health and quality of life. And she also presents in the community on issues related to parenting, child abuse prevention, self-care, mindfulness, trauma stewardship, and cultural issues. She enjoys working with clients who are in the mental health field, who could benefit from getting additional support in the important work they’re doing, who perhaps are struggling with vicarious trauma or burnout, and who are interested in receiving case consultation or support in their professional development.

Candice Wu 3:40

As we jump into this interview, I want to share that Bianka has an experiential of NARM, the NeuroAffective Relational Model coming up this week and that is connected with this episode. And you can find her entire episode and the experiential at CandiceWu.com/bianka. Okay, so without further ado, let’s welcome Bianka to the show.

Candice Wu 4:08

Bianca, it’s wonderful to have you on the show today. I wanted to just start out with our unique and synchronous story of coming into each other’s lives at different points. I think our first point of contact was you walking into my Yoga class where your son goes to school –

Bianka Hardin 4:26

Yes!

Candice Wu 4:27

And then I babysat for your son. And that was –

Bianka Hardin 4:30

Yes.

Candice Wu 4:30

We got to know your family –

Candice Wu 4:33

and then maybe we had some distance for some time, and later I found out you were, well, at that time, I found out you were a professor at faculty member at the Chicago School.

Bianka Hardin 4:33

Yeah

Bianka Hardin 4:45

Right.

Candice Wu 4:45

And then I was studying psychology, and when I got out of school, we just happen to have tea and you just happen to need another therapist in your practice. And I was like, me!

Candice Wu 5:00

I would love this. And the timing was just so beautiful.

Bianka Hardin 5:04

Yeah.

Candice Wu 5:05

Yeah. So just wanted to share these pieces of our story and how I know you, and how I’ve come to love and appreciate you as a friend, as a colleague, and as a supervisor at Centered Therapy Chicago, where you have your private practice as a psychologist, and one of the biggest things of my connection with you is loving myself and appreciating myself by treating myself with care. And you know, that’s a big thing that you speak to. So welcome to the show, Bianka.

Bianka Hardin 5:39

Thank you. Well, I wanted to add one more piece to our puzzle.

Candice Wu 5:43

Yeah.

Bianka Hardin 5:45

I don’t know if you remember. But I started attending meditation classes at Meditate Chicago –

Candice Wu 5:52

Oh yeah.

Bianka Hardin 5:53

I went for a class and I ran into you there –

Candice Wu 5:56

That’s right!

Bianka Hardin 5:58

We reconnected and I said, come over to my space for tea. Let’s talk about what you’re doing in your life.

Candice Wu 6:05

That was magical. That was so fun.

Bianka Hardin 6:08

Yes –

Candice Wu 6:10

That’s right.

Bianka Hardin 6:13

One thing that I often do is, we can call it a prayer or asking the universe, but I often say, you know, show me the right people, show me the right space, show me how to make a difference in people’s lives, the community in the world.

Bianka Hardin 6:30

So I had been like saying those blessings or prayers, and so I really trust that when people come in, it’s not just by chance. It’s actually God or the universe’s way to kind of say, she’s right here.

Candice Wu 6:30

Yeah.

Bianka Hardin 6:30

You know, why don’t you ask Candice to work for you? And I think I asked you to work for me in that same team meeting?

Bianka Hardin 6:54

I think so. I was desiring the same thing –

Bianka Hardin 6:59

Yeah.

Candice Wu 7:00

That is another thing that I love about you. And what I’ve learned from you, is that trust, and trusting in the universe and trusting in the right things showing up. And there it was, it felt so right.

Bianka Hardin 7:01

Yeah.

Candice Wu 7:04

Thank you.

Bianka Hardin 7:15

Yeah. No, it’s beautiful. One of the classes that I took from Andrew at Meditate was a kind of a visualization meditation course. Where you can visualize what you want in your life, and then it manifests. It’s so beautiful. So, I feel like I often am praying for kind of that vision or that guidance, or just to kind of show me what will work for me or what I need, or the right answer. It’s beautiful. And so when it happens, you can just feel it in your gut. You know, this is –

Candice Wu 7:52

Yeah.

Bianka Hardin 7:52

so right. You know, it’s beautiful.

Candice Wu 7:55

Yeah, there’s a knowing. And it’s so beautiful because it’s this unfolding of aligned things coming in your life. Yeah.

Bianka Hardin 8:06

Yeah. It’s nice to reconnect with you, on your podcast. It’s such an honor to speak with you and I often listen to your podcast while I’m on vacation. I walk by the lake or the beach, and I listened to your beautiful podcasts, and they’re so inspirational. So, thank you for having me on today.

Candice Wu 8:25

Oh, thank you. That’s so sweet. It’s wonderful to have you. I wanted to start off with a question about you, on your journey now. You know, we’ve talked about our coming together at different times, and the right points in our lives. I am curious, what this conversation together, you know, unfolds. But also, where are you in your life journey now and what is interesting for you now?

Bianka Hardin 8:56

Well, I feel like I’m someone who has so many things popping, you know. A lot of things happen at once for me, and I get really excited and inspired by so many things. So, I would say that I’m really inspired by my own personal healing and the potential for healing. As I do my own work, it just opened my eyes up to the power of healing work that we all are doing or could be doing. And how that could just really improve the world, in terms of changing generational patterns of trauma, of hurt, of anxiety, of relational difficulties, and it’s been really neat. Just kind of peeling off the layers of my own, I guess defenses, or protective strategies to kind of uncover what’s underneath from that, has been really inspiring for me.

Bianka Hardin 10:04

And so, I’ve been really thinking about intergenerational legacies of trauma, developmental trauma, social, historical, political trauma. And kind of thinking about me being half-German and half-Southern, and what influences have led to where I’m at today? My own self-care, as a therapist, how do I take care of myself so that I can be the best therapist that I can be in this moment? So, those are a few things that are on my mind lately.

Candice Wu 10:43

Mm-hmm. That’s really exciting. So, what have you found in terms of being half-German and half from the South that does influence your pathway, or what you’re working with now?

Bianka Hardin 10:58

It’s been really interesting. So my mother’s side is German, and my father’s side is from South Carolina. I’ve always been super curious about, you know, their childhoods. Where did they come from? What’s the family’s story? Lots of questions, right? And I wondered, am I so curious because people aren’t talking about things? Like, as if I need to investigate what my roots and my heritage is.

Bianka Hardin 11:33

And so, I found myself teaching a class called “Intergenerational Legacies of Trauma and Post World War II Germany” at The Chicago School with my dear friend and colleague, Dr. Pam Niesluchowski, and we teach on campus, and then we go to Germany for 10 days. It’s as if I’m learning about myself through this class because we haven’t discussed it in my family. There are certain things that we don’t talk about that, as the message. We don’t talk about what happened before that might be too difficult, or I kind of grew up with a message that if things become emotional, you know? Let’s just not talk about that.

Bianka Hardin 12:16

So I think my way of figuring out who I am, is through this journey of teaching this class. And going over to Germany, visiting historical sites, and really understanding that. In the class, we also go to a family constellations workshop and do an experiential with that. And I’ve been learning about how the things are talked about that aren’t unexpressed or all in me.

Bianka Hardin 12:48

Somehow, I’m holding on to things that maybe, it wasn’t safe to explore because of actual safety issues. And now that I’m, kind of, in a safer environment, I’m having access to all these intense feelings. One thing that I’ve learned is that I’m intensely fearful. I have a lot of worries about my own personal safety or the safety of my family. I just thought that was normal, you know?

Candice Wu 13:20

Well, you wouldn’t know anything different, right? Like, this is what you felt.

Bianka Hardin 13:26

Exactly.

Candice Wu 13:26

All your life, right?

Bianka Hardin 13:27

Or, you know?

Bianka Hardin 13:27

You mean, you haven’t figured out the escape route out of it in case the building goes on fire?

Candice Wu 13:35

Like, this is the way you thought everyone experienced it?

Bianka Hardin 13:38

Right? I would see women walking at night with headphones on or jogging and I’m like, “Oh, no! That ain’t safe, you know?” I thought at all times, something could happen to me. And for me, I guess I thought that was my NARM. But, what that really resulted in is a lot of hyperarousal and a very activated nervous system. I started learning this more through Somatic Experiencing, and through the NeuralAffective Relational Model and kind of thinking like, wow, I actually don’t feel safe. I’m not trustful for others. My whole life, I thought I trusted people, you know? I’ve learned that this distrust is not there.

Bianka Hardin 14:27

And so I think, it’s been really enlightening to figure out the depth of this lack of safety that I carry around with me on a daily basis. And how freeing it’s been through my work with SC and NARM and family constellations. I was just on a road trip. I actually was enjoying the ride, instead of thinking of all the ways the car could veer off the road.

Candice Wu 14:56

Right. So glad you experienced that.

Bianka Hardin 15:02

Yeah!

Candice Wu 15:03

Makes such a difference.

Bianka Hardin 15:05

Yeah. When people told me they loved writing and they enjoyed the ride, I always thought, I don’t get that at all. I don’t understand that.

Candice Wu 15:13

Yeah.

Bianka Hardin 15:13

And actually, it was happening to me. I’m thinking, “This is amazing!” This country is so beautiful. The landscape is so beautiful. And I just felt this sense of safety. That’s kind of a newer feeling for me, you know? I feel emotional just touching into that.

Candice Wu 15:31

It’s beautiful. You could experience what was around you with appreciation, and feel safe in it.

Bianka Hardin 15:38

Exactly. Yeah. So, I think I’ve just been really curious about German history, German-American history, and history of the Holocaust. And then, I’ve been very curious about Southern history, and slavery, and issues of race and racism. It’s not an obsession for me. It’s just like an intense curiosity and wanting to know, and learn more. And explore the topics that have been taboo in my family, you know? That we don’t talk about.

Candice Wu 16:11

Yeah. I mean, do you feel like that’s connected with this sort of innate desire to know the truth? To know the story?

Bianka Hardin 16:20

I think so. I mean, I think I have a deep curiosity about the truth and people’s stories, my own story, right? Why did this happen? Why were people so hateful to one another? How could this level of violence occur? What leads to that or what allows that in a society to happen?

Bianka Hardin 16:47

I just really want to know, and so I find myself going to historical sites and reading novels or historical fiction that really helped me better understand that. And it can be really deeply painful at times to open those doors and look in. But I also feel like, that’s also a way of honoring people on what happened in our history. We can’t just pretend these things didn’t happen when they did. And I think that’s really important. And I think that’s what’s really missing in the United States. This deep curiosity about how did this happen? Why did this happen? How is it still occurring? And it seems like there’s this desire to close the door on that and just move forward, and not look backward.

Bianka Hardin 17:38

Whereas in Germany, when I visited, there’s lots of historical markers and an acknowledgment of this history that is so intensely painful. There’s a lot of shame there, at least, that’s what I experienced growing up. My mother was born right after World War II. We don’t talk about that, and it doesn’t feel good to talk about it. But now there are lots of markers and places to visit. And there’s this acknowledgment of the history which I think is really healing.

Candice Wu 18:07

I think that’s very healing and I experienced that, too, when I was in Germany in December of last year. I got to see part of the wall. And that’s not exactly the topic of what you’re speaking of, but just to even see that experience of peace of the Berlin Wall and to see that honored as part of the history, I thought that was very interesting.

Bianka Hardin 18:33

Yeah.

Candice Wu 18:34

Yeah. Just very honoring of the experience of people that are in the roots of this country.

Bianka Hardin 18:41

And that is part of what we explore in the class, the legacy of the wall and what happened before, during, and after the wall, and how that impacts people. The experience of immigration and how immigrants have been treated historically. All of that goes into passing down legacies of trauma or resilience and healing, you know?

Candice Wu 19:06

Mm-hmm. Yeah. I feel like when we put mistrust or distrust, or safety issues, or fears in the context of the whole lineage, somehow for me, they make sense to my life. It’s like, oh, there’s a context for where this made sense in the past. Where it was a reality and it can release me of what’s being held in me now. How do you experience it?

Bianka Hardin 19:38

Yeah, I mean. I think that through some work that I’ve done, there was a story that was really enlightening to me where I was at a NARM training and outside of the training, there was a hiking area. I really like being outside. I love walking. Even though I have fears of something happening, I don’t let that get in the way of me actually doing things.

Bianka Hardin 20:05

So, I remember I wanted to find this hiking trail. It was Warrenville near Naperville, a “safe, suburban area.” I recognized I had intense anxiety about going hiking on this trail by myself. And I’m like, sure, just do it. You know, probably nothing’s going to happen to you.

Candice Wu 20:35

Probably.

Bianka Hardin 20:36

Yeah, probably. I couldn’t find the path. So I turned around and ran into a fellow trainee. I said, “Oh, are you looking for the trail?” And she said, “Yes.” I said, “Oh, can we look together? I can’t find it.” She’s like, “That would be great. I would be afraid of running into a wild animal out there by myself.” And I said, “Wild animal? I’m worried about a wild person!”

Bianka Hardin 21:02

We, kind of, laughed because, you know, we’ve always had fears, but mine was of the human. You know?

Candice Wu 21:08

Yeah.

Bianka Hardin 21:09

And so I kept thinking about that, like, why would I be afraid of running into a dangerous person out in this rail? I’m fully aware that there is violence against women, but it felt more intense than that. It felt more like, this is a legitimate 100% fear. I already thought like, what if they don’t find me? They’re going to send out the rescue crews, at least, you have your cell phone? I’m already triaging and figuring out what would happen if I disappeared? You know.

Candice Wu 21:44

Yeah, the game plan.

Bianka Hardin 21:45

The game plan. So, I kind of kept this fresh with me. And I was turning it over in my head a little bit. I’m like, “This is really intense, Bianka.” I wasn’t saying it in a way that I was looking down on myself. It was in a compassionate way. You know, it’s like, “Wow. It is really hard that you feel this way.”

Bianka Hardin 22:05

And I ended up doing a NARM-type session. And during that session, I realized that I was holding on to someone else’s fear. Like, that actually wasn’t mine. And it was like this epiphany that I had read like, wow, actually I don’t need to hold on to that anymore. That is not needed for me. It’s like, as if I had it in my hands. And I put it to the side and I said, “This belongs to someone else.” You know?

Candice Wu 22:37

Yeah.

Bianka Hardin 22:38

And then I had this emotional experience and after that, I felt so much lighter. Now, I can’t say that it’s gone, but I would say that it was this realization that happened, that what I was carrying did not belong to me. That belonged to, probably, other women or other relatives in my lineage. Because I’m guessing that whatever happened to my relatives during World War I or World War II was really scary.

Bianka Hardin 23:12

I’m not living during that time right now. You know what I mean? And actually, that level of fear that I carried, is it necessary?

Candice Wu 23:23

Absolutely. Yeah.

Bianka Hardin 23:25

So it was really powerful. And it kind of helped me better understand this intergenerational trauma, and that it feels real. You know, like, I had an experience where I went down to my laundry room and I had intense fear. After I started doing this work, I felt very fragile and delicate doing some of this work. Then I had an experience where I got very afraid, and I knew what was happening. I said, “This doesn’t match the situation. But what you’re feeling is real. It feels intense and it’s incredibly scary.” I worked with a therapist who held that for me and allowed me to be with these feelings. It was so powerful. It was really amazing.

Bianka Hardin 24:20

Yeah. And me, allowing space for these experiences, has led to me, having greater capacity for joy and for figuring things out. Oh, wow, I felt so expansive and relaxed. It’s like, I’m figuring out, I’m like a new person.

Candice Wu 24:31

It’s really powerful.

Candice Wu 24:34

Yeah. So much of your energy was holding a fear that wasn’t yours.

Bianka Hardin 24:56

Exactly.

Candice Wu 24:57

And for that to be relieved, it’s like all this space and energy is you and yours and, what now?

Bianka Hardin 25:05

Yeah. I mean, it’s really amazing because I have always thought of myself as a laid back person. At least, that’s when people see me, that’s what they tell me. And it’s like, wow, I am that and I had all this fear, right?

Bianka Hardin 25:24

Anxiety and the healing work of body-oriented psychotherapy has really created so many possibilities for me. It’s really freeing. And so, I continue to think about how I’m feeling and say, “Wow, this is new and different. I feel more in touch with my aliveness.” You know, my life’s energy is really freed up which has been really great.

Candice Wu 25:57

It’s fantastic.

Bianka Hardin 25:58

Yeah.

Candice Wu 25:59

Yeah. And so you mentioned NARM, the NeuroAffective Relational Model.

Bianka Hardin 26:03

Yeah.

Candice Wu 26:04

I want to hear more about that and your experience with it.

Bianka Hardin 26:06

Yeah. Well, I learned about NARM through my trainer, Brad Kammer. He introduced me when I went to a day-long intro. I met him through the Somatic Experiencing Community. NARM is based on Dr. Laurence Heller’s book, “Healing Developmental Trauma.” It’s almost like these worlds came together through this model, and I really appreciate it because the foundation is based on multiple models. But it’s relational, it’s based on psychodynamic, cognitive, behavioral, Somatic Experiencing, interpersonal neurobiology. And I’m probably forgetting a few other things.

Bianka Hardin 26:48

But, it’s this relational model that works both top-down and bottom-up. So I appreciate both being able to work top-down and bottom-up. And then, I think the potential for healing is so great. I’ve done traditional therapy, I’ve done Somatic Experiencing, and now I’ve done NARM. And I think, for me, it’s this coming together of these ways of thinking, about how my early life experiences have shaped me and these strategies that I utilize to protect myself, were developed really early on in life based on those experiences.

Bianka Hardin 27:31

And yet now as an adult, I continue to utilize them when babying my experiences, and they are very different. So I’ve been able to see ways that I have protected myself, that maybe aren’t serving me as much now as an adult. I have realized what was really powerful is that, I’m very good at attuning to others and predicting what other people need. I needed to do that as a child. I needed to know what my caregivers needed, wanted. I was a good girl and I always wanted to make sure I was doing the right thing.

Candice Wu 28:10

Yeah, you and me both. That is one of my protective ways, as well.

Bianka Hardin 28:16

Exactly. And you know what? That makes us really good therapists, right? Like, I am really good at sizing up a situation and adjusting myself to adapt to the other, right? That’s great! However, if you said, “Well, what do you want, Bianka? What do you need? What do you prefer? As a mother –

Candice Wu 28:42

Yeah.

Bianka Hardin 28:42

you have a child, is always like, “What’s your favorite?” And then I think- I don’t know –

Candice Wu 28:48

That’s great!

Bianka Hardin 28:49

what my favorite is, but I know what your favorite is. Right?

Candice Wu 28:53

Right. You come to know everybody but yourself.

Bianka Hardin 28:56

Exactly. And so what I realized-

Candice Wu 28:58

As a survival.

Bianka Hardin 28:59

Yes. I needed to know that and that kept me safe. There are so many benefits of that in my life now. But, I really didn’t deeply know myself, right? So, that has been really perplexing. You know, a 47-year-old woman, who was, I would say, accomplished, successful. And it’s like, wow, I don’t know myself as well as I thought I did. Like, I know how to-

Candice Wu 29:36

What a profound thing to get to.

Bianka Hardin 29:37

Yes. I know how to have a successful relationship and have good friends. But what I realized was, I was really protecting myself. Not only not sharing my deep self, but maybe not even knowing my deep self. As much as I would like to. Right?

Candice Wu 29:56

Yeah, absolutely. I can so relate to that. That whole journey.

Bianka Hardin 30:01

Exactly. And so, what NARM has done, is something that traditional therapy hadn’t done for me because what I could do in traditional therapy is size up the therapist and kind of let them know what I think they wanted to know. But like with NARM, you start off with a contract, what’s in your heart’s desire? What would you like for yourself today? How do you want to use this time? Well, when someone comes at me in that way, I felt like I was a deer in headlights? Like, okay. You mean, you really want to know what I want?

Candice Wu 30:40

Right? Is that a real question? That’s a question people ask?

Bianka Hardin 30:47

Yeah.

Candice Wu 30:49

Yeah, I understand that. It’s like spending so much energy, with knowing other people and what they need, and what they’re feeling. There’s just no room for yourself in that sort of place.

Bianka Hardin 31:02

Exactly. And so, what surprised me was how much emotion was there with that for me? Like, I felt really young, you know? Really vulnerable. So, it was not only a hard question to answer, but it’s almost like I felt touched that someone really wanted to know me.

Candice Wu 31:24

Yeah.

Bianka Hardin 31:24

They cared and that attunement was there.

Bianka Hardin 31:27

Because with NARM, the therapist doesn’t have an agenda. The therapist really wants to know what is it that you want for yourself. It’s not about fixing someone, or it’s not about being goal-oriented. It’s really about the person’s heart, you know. And I think that’s just what I needed for who I am, it was to really get in touch with my own heart’s desire in a really authentic, deep level.

Candice Wu 32:00

And in the support of someone that really wanted to know. And to hold the space for that sounds really powerful.

Bianka Hardin 32:07

Yeah. And also figuring out the ways that I get in my own way. The model is also about personal agency, and what are the ways like, maybe I have a heart’s desire, I do. But what are the ways that maybe I get in my own way of getting to that? Because I’m using these old strategies that I used to have to protect myself. And so, I’ve been really working on authenticity and vulnerability, and sharing my heart, and my voice, and stepping into vulnerability.

Bianka Hardin 32:42

Boy, it’s been kind of scary and emotional but yet, highly interpersonal and rewarding, and personally rewarding. But also, my personal relationships have really deepened. Yeah. That’s what I want for myself, to be authentic, to be vulnerable, to be in deep connection with people, deep authentic connection.

Bianka Hardin 33:08

And so, that’s what I’m working on. I’m working on it every day and there are lots of tears. You don’t always feel whatever wall I had up, is now lessened through my personal decision. And it could still be there when I need it to be but it feels like deep growth.

Candice Wu 33:33

It sounds like it. So with NARM, are you talking about it? Like, talking about the protections? Or is it more so relating and then seeing how that shows up between you and the therapist? Or how does that, there’s the element of being, with what comes up in the feelings in the body? How does that all look?

Bianka Hardin 33:58

Yeah, well. So, you’re looking for psychobiological shifts in the client and, or, within yourself if you’re the client. I think it could look very different depending on the client or on the therapist. Because I’m a therapist, I’m very interested in the process. And so when I do my experientials, I’m very curious about the theoretical and the interventions. But, not all clients might be as interested in that.

Bianka Hardin 34:30

I personally believe with all therapy, that having psychoeducation is an important part of the process. And so I think, it demystifies the process for clients and I think knowledge is power.

Bianka Hardin 34:46

And so when I work with clients, I like to share with them, my observations or what I’m doing. Or just to give them an informational framework. But not all clients want that or need that, or asked for that. So I typically do a little bit of that. And if a client really- it resonates with them, then I’ll do more of that. If it doesn’t resonate, then I’ll pull back a little bit. It’s really about kind of what I believe they want and what helps them. So I think you can adjust the model per client.

Bianka Hardin 35:18

So one thing that I was talking to you about before we started the show was this great sense of expansion that I had when I was thinking about enjoying the ride. And I was really tickled about how much fun I was having on this car ride journey that I had not experienced before because it’d be more typical for me to have anxiety. I had this great feeling of expansion and then we, kind of, turned a corner, literally.

Candice Wu 35:48

Literally.

Bianka Hardin 35:50

And I looked down and there was like a ravine with a stream. And then I started thinking about the danger. You know what I mean? Like, what would happen if the car –

Bianka Hardin 35:59

went off the road and I have this contraction where, not only did I have a little bit of anxiety, I had a lot of anxiety. It was almost like, I had this great expansion in this contraction. And so, that’s something that is pretty common with NARM. That’s something where some of my clients and I talked about that to normalize that process, rather than me thinking like, “Oh, I made no progress at all. Look at me, I’m even more anxious than I’ve ever been.” I thought, “Oh, you know what? This is the contraction. You felt so expansive and so open, and your heart was wide open to the experience that you’re having, like, seeing all this beauty. And then, now you’re in a contraction. This is going to go away, you know. This is going to be temporary, and it’s okay.”

Candice Wu 35:59

Yeah.

Bianka Hardin 36:09

It’s this way of me knowing the model, help me have more compassion for myself, and not be hard on myself about it. Just, kind of, understand this is what’s happening now. So, that really helped me.

Candice Wu 37:04

I think that’s so important.

Bianka Hardin 37:05

Yeah.

Candice Wu 37:06

Because so often people have that thought, then that comes right after that, “Yeah. This is a setback.” Or, “I thought I was doing better.”

Bianka Hardin 37:13

Right.

Candice Wu 37:15

And it’s all part of that the process of the body, learning more capacity. And because actually, that intensity was there says a lot about the expansion that was happening –

Bianka Hardin 37:26

Right.

Candice Wu 37:26

as a reflection of it. So you mentioned about agency in NARM. And I’m curious about how you work with agency or what it means.

Bianka Hardin 37:35

Yeah, so NARM is all about agency. And that, how are we playing a role? And what’s happening kind of in our lives and the use of protective strategies? Or what are our own ways of either getting in the way of what we really want? Or helping us get to what we really want.

Bianka Hardin 37:59

And so I found that there are ways that I really pressure myself, and I was doing it before we started the show, think I joked with you about how I was really putting a lot of pressure on myself and having performance anxiety. Right?

Bianka Hardin 38:20

And so I was pressuring myself. Here I am talking to lovely Candice, wanting to talk about what’s on my heart, in my mind, what’s inspiring me? And then I noticed, I’m pressuring myself, because what if I don’t do a good enough job or explain things good enough, right?

Bianka Hardin 38:37

So I’m getting in my own way of speaking to what’s on my heart and what’s inspiring me, right? So what I can do now through NARM’s lens is to realize the ways I am doing things that may get in the way of what my heart’s desire is.

Bianka Hardin 38:56

For example, the stories we tell ourselves, you know, or being really hard on ourselves, like if we make an error, like, for example, during the podcast, what if I didn’t explain the concept of agency right? I might then start shaming and blaming myself, because I didn’t do –

Candice Wu 39:15

Yeah.

Bianka Hardin 39:15

enough job and kind of go down this mental path of people aren’t going to be happy with me that I didn’t do a good enough job explaining what agency is, well, it’s actually: “Okay, if I mess up. You know what I mean? Then I’ll just fix it. It’s all right.”

Candice Wu 39:30

Yeah.

Bianka Hardin 39:30

But, I’ve noticed for myself, there are ways that I do that, I pressure myself, or I blame and shame myself, or I’m hard on myself, for being human. Right? It’s as if making a mistake is not acceptable. Right? And, you know, some of us have grown up in environments that have been extremely critical. I’m kind of noticing flaws or needing to try to achieve perfection. And sometimes when we grow up that way, we, then pressure ourselves to be perfect or not to make mistakes.

Bianka Hardin 40:13

And really, I noticed that a lot. And I’ve been really working on that, of not shaming and blaming myself and pressuring myself, but just accepting myself. And the outcome has been that, I have felt calmer, definitely more relaxed, more forgiving of myself, but not only of myself, but others too. I say everyone makes mistakes, mistakes are really learning opportunities, it actually is genuine, I really feel that way. And there’s just been more of a settling around: Life is messy, and that’s okay.

Candice Wu 40:51

Yeah, naming those things, noticing those things that really can put you in the place of not getting what you want –

Bianka Hardin 41:00

Exactly.

Candice Wu 41:00

or moving towards yourself the way you want, and being kinder or –

Bianka Hardin 41:04

Right.

Candice Wu 41:04

taking in a different way with it.

Bianka Hardin 41:06

Right. And so when we can kind of notice these things, then we have an opportunity to continue doing it, right? Or we can do something different. You know, it’s kind of like, “Hey, you have these choices here. What would you like to do?”

Candice Wu 41:21

Yeah, I think that’s so freeing.

Bianka Hardin 41:23

Exactly.

Candice Wu 41:24

There isn’t shame with that. It’s choice. When you know, it’s choice. And we have the right to continue doing it the way we’re doing it. It’s a question of do we want to and how do we want to do it?

Bianka Hardin 41:37

Right. And what’s great is that the client gets to choose that, you know, they do what’s best for them.

Bianka Hardin 41:45

And so I think it’s about agency and also giving choice, you know, and not being tied to the outcome as a therapist, you know, what Brad was saying is that it’s very freeing. You know, this is a model where the therapist often feels much freer. You know, we’re not goal oriented. We’re really looking to see what works for the client, you know, and they get to choose that.

Candice Wu 42:13

Absolutely. Beautiful. Well, I wanted to ask you about what brings you joy right now. And the thing is, like, so many things –

Bianka Hardin 42:22

Yeah.

Candice Wu 42:22

that bring you joy in your life. And I wondered what you would say, so yeah, what brings you joy or what makes you feel alive?

Bianka Hardin 42:32

I am. I really love being by the beach, by water. I was just on vacation. I went to Hilton Head. And I love walking on the beach. And I love the sound of the waves, and the wind, and nature. The smell of the air, the sand on my feet. I like walking by the waves. Maybe letting them wash over my feet. It might be a little cold. That’s okay, but like just really being by the water really brings me joy.

Candice Wu 43:12

That sounds so yummy.

Bianka Hardin 43:13

Yeah, so like soothing for my soul. So being in nature –

Candice Wu 43:22

A good reminder. Yes. Being in nature.

Bianka Hardin 43:25

Yeah, I mean, just getting outside and I’m so blessed to live in Chicago. And we have this beautiful lakefront, and I just been enjoying going to the beach. I mean, not recently because it’s been winter, but even when it’s cold, it’s beautiful. You know, like walking by the lake. It’s just a really soothing experience. And it makes me think, like, when we live so close to something beautiful, why wouldn’t we take advantage of it? You know?

Candice Wu 43:59

Yeah, right. Absolutely.

Bianka Hardin 44:03

What’s that term, where it’s like, I forget, it’s like, bathing in the woods, where you’re out walking in nature, and it’s like this soothing experience. There’s a term that I learned recently, and I’m not pulling it up right now.

Candice Wu 44:20

I don’t think I know it.

Bianka Hardin 44:21

Oh, really? Okay, I thought you might,

Bianka Hardin 44:25

It’s like Forest Bathing or something like that, where it just speaks to this repetitive experience of being in nature and how healing and soothing and calming it is. I feel like, it’s something I personally want to do more of, you know, I feel really inspired by being outside and connecting with nature.

Candice Wu 44:49

Well, whatever that’s called, I did it the other day, walk down the street in Michigan, like Earth, just take me you know.

Candice Wu 44:57

I just surrendered myself into nature. I often like to picture myself being buried by the earth, it’s very soothing for me. I get to feel into the quiet and sense into the nutrients of the earth.

Bianka Hardin 44:57

Yeah.

Candice Wu 45:15

And in Tantric Yoga, we have the ability to sense into the elements and to taste them, to smell them, to feel the vibration, even if we’re not actually doing it.

Bianka Hardin 45:30

Yeah.

Candice Wu 45:31

So it’s not just imagining, it’s actually touching into our elemental nature. And this walk the other day, I was like, “Just absorb me, nature.” You know, just let me come back home to my nature, and it helps me just release some of the emotions that were going on in me and I started coughing up a lung. Which, for me, there’s some energy in my body that’s expelling. And that coughing is a clearing of that.

Bianka Hardin 46:07

Yes.

Candice Wu 46:09

Yeah. such a simple thing to do, but can be so powerful.

Bianka Hardin 46:13

Yeah, I listened to your Energetic Boundaries Podcast, and you talked about that. We’ve talked about that too, like that clearing that happens. Yeah.

Candice Wu 46:25

And I’m just reminded of supervision meetings with you, where sometimes we would walk and talk –

Bianka Hardin 46:31

Yes!

Candice Wu 46:31

side by side. And you would just remind me to look at the outlines of the trees –

Bianka Hardin 46:37

Oh, yes. I love looking at the trees.

Candice Wu 46:41

we would slow down –

Bianka Hardin 46:42

Yeah.

Candice Wu 46:42

It’s the best! It’s like, the simple thing we can do for ourselves. And so easy, in a way, it can be easy.

Bianka Hardin 46:49

Yeah, I’ve been really into walking meetings, instead of sitting meetings. And if we can walk outside and look at nature, and I am, like, really captivated by nature. And I am known to stop the conversation abruptly and say, “Look at that!” you know? “So beautiful!”

Bianka Hardin 47:11

And it’s just that it’s hard to pass up something, you know, it’s like a gift, you know, that you were able to say this –

Candice Wu 47:20

Yeah.

Bianka Hardin 47:20

I guess it’s kind of a form of mindfulness, taking it all in what’s around you at that moment and really appreciating it.

Candice Wu 47:27

Yeah, and we spend so much time looking at our screens in our phones up close –

Bianka Hardin 47:31

Yeah.

Candice Wu 47:31

That when we look far in the distance, like, that’s a muscle that we’re, I think we’re losing if we don’t stay with it.

Bianka Hardin 47:40

Yeah, something that’s hard on me personally as a therapist is all the sitting that I do, and I think taking opportunities to walk outside during either a networking meeting or a supervision meeting, or just even taking the time during a break to get outside is so needed.

Bianka Hardin 48:00

It just shifts the energy, you know, really important.

Candice Wu 48:07

Well, thank you so much for sharing with me on the show today and sharing with our audience today. Is there anything else that feels important to share? Or interesting or alive for you now?

Bianka Hardin 48:18

No, I mean, I had a really enjoyable time talking to you. And I really honor and appreciate you so much, and just really great to have this conversation with you. And, I always enjoy talking with you. I feel like many of our conversations could be podcasts.

Candice Wu 48:38

I agree.

Candice Wu 48:40

We always get to some depth of something –

Bianka Hardin 48:43

Yeah.

Candice Wu 48:43

and some fun with each other.

Bianka Hardin 48:45

Yeah.

Candice Wu 48:46

Thank you so much. It’s been a pleasure and a real honor to have you. And I know that you’re having a NARM workshop coming up. Would you want to share about that at the end of April?

Bianka Hardin 48:55

Yes, I would love to we’re… me and Gina Essex. She is a NARM lead assistant and quite knowledgeable in NARM. She and I are co-facilitating a workshop at Chicago Body Mind Wellness Studio on Saturday, April 27, during the day, and it’s an introduction to NARM. It’s from about 10 am to 4 pm. And we’re inviting anyone who’s really interested in developmental trauma, come by and you can sign up online. I’m also doing a workshop on my own, it will be my first solo flight into teaching a day-long introductory workshop.

Candice Wu 49:42

Wow!

Bianka Hardin 49:43

I know.

Bianka Hardin 49:44

I’m excited slash nervous slash excited.

Bianka Hardin 49:50

I’m spreading my wings. And that’ll be on June 21st at Harper College in the suburbs. So, yeah, I’ll get you more information about that.

Candice Wu 50:00

Wonderful!

Bianka Hardin 50:01

I would love for anyone interested in working with developmental trauma to just come, check out the workshop, because we’re going to be starting a larger training in Chicago in late July, which is about a year long. And that’s where you go really in-depth with the model. And that, for me was a very transformative experience, working with trauma survivors for 20 years, and I’ve gone to a lot of trainings, and I would say it was one of the best pieces of training I’ve ever been to, and great connections personally for me and interpersonally, so I highly recommend it.

Candice Wu 50:38

Excellent. Great. Yeah, we’ll put all that in the show notes –

Bianka Hardin 50:42

Great!

Candice Wu 50:42

when you have the information and where can people find you, Bianka?

Bianka Hardin 50:47

I am at Centered Therapy, Chicago, and I have a website, www.centertherapychicago.com. We have a Facebook page called Center Therapy Chicago, and we are currently in the North Center neighborhood of Chicago at 4124 North Lincoln, will be moving location shortly, but we’re going to be staying in the same neighborhood.

Candice Wu 51:10

Beautiful. Thank you so much, Bianka.

Bianka Hardin 51:13

Thank you! It’s a pleasure.

Candice Wu 51:15

Fabulous to have you.

Bianka Hardin 51:17

Yeah, thank you so much.

Candice Wu 51:22

It was wonderful to talk to Bianca today. I’m so glad you were here listening. And I hope that you receive something interesting out of that or could relate to her anxieties or her experience in her body. Think that deeply resonates with me, a past part of me.

Candice Wu 51:39

Some people think that I have just always been this Zen and kind of calm person or a lot of people enjoy listening to my voice and the calmness that comes in it. But I spent a good, solid 26 or so years, being in anxiety and depression and not being in my body at all, where I didn’t feel safe at all. But I didn’t even know it for so many years, and the story of how Bianka felt a shift in herself where she actually could enjoy her body and enjoy what’s around her. That was something I definitely went through and was a very transformative experience those first moments of experiencing it. So that’s very related to my story as well.

Candice Wu 52:28

If you’re interested in NARM or Somatic Experiencing or what Bianka has to offer, including the parenting and mindfulness or trauma stewardship, feel free to reach out to Bianka and I encourage you to connect with her NARM experiential around settling in connection with the NeuroAffective Relational Model. So she’s going to offer an exercise that is focused on connection and facilitating a deep sense of settling in the body. Again, you can find that experience show later this week on the podcast or at the website at CandiceWu.com/bianka.

Candice Wu 53:06

Before you go today, I want to invite you to sign up for the bi-monthly newsletter, which offers self-love notes and tips for healing and embodiment. As well as just reminders to love yourself, get in touch with your spirit, learn about yourself, and listen to your inner voice, and keep up to date on retreats and workshops, as well as the podcasts that are going out. Feel free to sign up for that at CandiceWu.com/embody.

Candice Wu 53:30

Also, for any of my listeners that are interested in exploring any 20-minute free consultation, if you were a new client to me or somebody that has just connected with the podcast and is interested in learning about the healing modalities or how we would support you in your deepest desires in connection with yourself and loving yourself, feel free to reach out to me and schedule a free session.

Candice Wu 54:01

There’s no pressure to continue in sessions with me or anything. But it’s lovely to connect with all of you who are out there, who are interested in your own growth, who are interested in filling a hole in yourself right now. And we can have this conversation and just see what your next steps are or make a connection.

Candice Wu 54:21

In that experience. I can also share my intuitive sense of what might be supportive for you and your journey and support you in getting there. If you’d like to connect with me that way, feel free to hop on my website at CandiceWu.com/connect. It’s been a wonderful time having you here and I look forward to connecting with all of you in some way or another. Thank you so much, sending you lots of love and wishing you all the joy that you desire in your life, see you next time on the Embody Podcast.

Introduction

Candice Wu 0:00

Hello and welcome to the Embody podcast. Today you’re listening to an experiential by Bianka Hardin, who is a clinical psychologist.

You can find Bianka’s entire introductory episode at CandiceWu.com/bianka.

Today’s experiential is a NARM exercise, that’s the Neuro-Affective Relational Model, which is focused on connection. This exercise can facilitate a deep sense of settling and connection in the whole being.

So feel free to find a comfortable place to be and jump into this experience with Bianka.

Hello and welcome. You’re listening to the Embody Podcast, a show about remembering and embodying your true nature, inner wisdom, Embodied Healing and self-love.

My name is Candice Wu, and I’m a holistic healing facilitator, intuitive coach, and artist sharing my personal journey of vulnerability, offering meditations and guided healing support and having co-creative conversations with healers and wellness practitioners from all over the world.

Hello and Intro from Bianka

Bianka Hardin 1:13

Hello, and thank you for joining me today for this NARM. The Neuro-Affective Relational Model self-inquiry exercise based on connection.

During this exercise, I will be asking you to reflect on your experience, to engage in self-touch and just to notice what’s going on inside for you emotionally, physiologically, from a thought perspective, with non-judgmental curiosity.

All of this is up to you how much or how little you’re wanting to engage in this exercise.

This exercise will be focused on connection. If you’re willing, I invite you to reflect on a time where you felt connected to yourself, connected to others, in a way that feels good to you.

As you reflect on this personal and interpersonal connection, notice what happens inside. Notice your internal experience, your thoughts, your feelings, your level of presence with yourself, remembering to notice with non-judgmental curiosity.

Let’s Begin

Now I’d like to guide you through some self-touch as you notice your own sense of connection.

If you feel comfortable and would like to, I invite you to touch your shoulders.

You’re welcome to do a self-hug, crossing your arms across your body with touching your shoulders or you can touch them in any way that feels right for you.

Feel free to gently squeeze your shoulders, squeeze them tight or just softly place your hands on your shoulders, noticing what’s happening inside as you do this.

I invite you to move your touch and attention down to your elbows.

Feeling into your elbows as you gently touch your elbows, moving your attention down to your wrists and hands, either gently or with more firmness.

Feel free to just connect with your wrists and with your hands. Again, inviting you to notice what’s going on inside as you do this.

Inviting you next to connect with your ribcage.

Noticing what happens as you touch your ribs, moving your hands down to your hips and pelvis area.

Again, noticing what’s happening for you as you engage in this self-inquiry and experiential exercise around connection.

Moving your hands down to your knees, touching the front of your knees, the back of your knees.

Again, reflect on what’s happening inside for you.

Moving your attention down to your ankles.

Feeling the front of your ankles, the back of your ankles.

Just noticing your own connection with yourself as you engage in this exercise.

Notice your breath.

Taking your attention up to your neck area.

Touching the front of your neck, the back of your neck, with the amount of pressure that feels just right for you.

And ending with putting one hand on the front of your forehead, one hand on the back of your head.

Gently noticing that pressure on the front and the back of your head, noticing what happens inside as you connect with yourself in this way.

And as we wrap up this exercise, just noticing the level of connection you have with yourself as you engage in this activity.

Notice with Curiosity and Closing

Again, continuing to notice with non-judgmental curiosity, just really ending with observations about your own level of connection to yourself and others and how is this different than maybe it was 5 years ago, 10 years ago, or a year ago? Or, even how is it similar or different than it was when you began this exercise.

Feel free to continue checking in with yourself after this is done.

I want to thank you for your time and attention today.

Closing

Candice Wu 8:21

Thank you so much for tuning into this experience with Bianka Hardin.

You can again, find her entire episode at CandiceWu.com/bianka and you can also find other guests on the podcast offering their experiences, healing experientials, as well as meditations that can support you in your own healing, self-love, and presence.

You can find all the episodes at CandiceWu.com/podcast. See you next time on the Embody Podcast.