Candice Wu 0:00

Is your money smiling? This episode is with special guest, Ken Honda, the author of Happy Money: The Japanese Art of Making Peace with your Money. Arigato In, Arigato Out, is Ken’s mantra with money and he promises that it’s not going to cost you anything.

Candice Wu 0:19

Ken is considered the Marie Kondo of money and he talks in this podcast about money being a neutral energy and the amount of emotional garbage that we put into our relationship with money, how we’re born for expressing who we are, and being our authentic selves, and also how we can compel a planetary shift with a happy relationship to money.

Candice Wu 0:44

Hello, and welcome. You’re listening to the Embody Podcast, a show about remembering and embodying your true nature, inner wisdom, Embodied Healing, and self-love. My name is Candice Wu and I’m a holistic healing facilitator, intuitive coach, and artist sharing my personal journey of vulnerability, offering meditations and guided healing support, and having co-creative conversations with healers and wellness practitioners from all over the world.

Candice Wu 1:18

This episode is sponsored by your support. Recently, contributions to the podcast went to supporting the transcriptions of all the podcasts, and a database that’s searchable of all the healing experientials and meditations as well as podcasts.

Candice Wu 1:35

All the transcriptions for each episode are digestible in this written form for you to search or to look into if that’s an easier way for you to connect with the content, and you can find all that at each individual podcast link at CandiceWu.com/podcast. And the link for all the healing meditations that I offer, as well as my guests offer, all the experientials, that’s all searchable on the Embody Podcast database by keyword topics and by certain filters at CandiceWu.com/meditation. And just a little disclaimer that the transcripts are still in process, they’re just a small handful out of like 87 or so podcasts that are out there, I can’t even believe it, there’s so many. But the ones that are not there yet, look for them, because they will be coming out soon and the healing experientials and meditations will also be out soon.

Candice Wu 2:36

So I want to just put a shout out to those of you who have supported to the podcast, to the behind the scenes efforts of the podcast and appreciate how much that means to me and to the support of the podcast. If you’ve been thinking about supporting and haven’t yet, or if you’ve felt like you’ve wanted a way to give back to the community in some way that really means something or something on the podcasts has really touched your heart or if you really like the guest on the show, I would just so appreciate your support in donating to the podcast. You can check all that out as well as the offerings that are in return for support at CandiceWu.com/support.

Candice Wu 3:26

Welcome back to the podcast it’s great to have you here today. It’s wonderful to have Ken Honda on the podcast. He’s the author of Happy Money: The Japanese Art of Making Peace with your Money. He’s the best selling author of self-development books and has sold more than 7 million copies worldwide. While his financial expertise comes from owning and managing several businesses, his writings bridge the topics of finance and self-help focusing on creating and generating personal wealth and happiness through deeper self-honesty.

Candice Wu 4:00

I love talking to Ken about this topic, especially because I have been brainstorming all the different ways that I’ve worked with myself and others around money and have felt compelled to write a book about healing money issues at the root, as well as the story of money through the ancestry and connecting in the relationship with money in a way that brings us more abundance, but as part of a fuller abundance that we can touch into in our lives. And this conversation with Ken just came at such a perfect time. You’ll even hear me talk about my own book in the beginning when I really meant to be talking about his. I enjoyed talking with him so much and I hope you enjoy listening.

Candice Wu 4:50

Also, there’s a little treat at the very end, if you listen all the way through, you’ll tune into the audience gift from Ken and myself and it’s a very special one. It’s something we haven’t done before on the podcast and it is going to be in place of any experiential or meditation. But a special treat for one really lucky listener. Let’s jump in.

Candice Wu 5:19

This is a wonderful day to talk about money and a lot of people don’t like talking about money, which may be part of our conversation today Ken, but I think it’s delightful and I’m even more delighted to have you here today on the show. Welcome, Ken.

Ken Honda 5:37

Thank you. I’m so honored to be here.

Candice Wu 5:41

It’s just a pleasure. I read your book, Happy Money: The Japanese Art of Making Peace with your Money. And you’ve been known as Zen millionaire. Tell me about how you got here.

Ken Honda 5:56

So it’s going to be a long story, to make it short, my father was an accountant, very successful. So he taught me everything about money when I was small. So after I graduated from college, I studied my own company, consulting and accounting firm and I retired when I was 29. And for my baby girl, and during the full year of semi-retirement for my baby girl, I got this inspiration to write about happiness and money. And, I started writing a small booklet and that small booklet turned into a book, and since then I’ve been writing one book every few months for the past 18 years.

Candice Wu 6:43

Wow. And you said you had 140 books, is that right?

Ken Honda 6:46

Yes.

Candice Wu 6:49

That’s a big number. Wow.

Candice Wu 6:53

When you were young, I know in the story in your book “Happy Money”, you talked about being eight years old and learning from your father. Can you say more about what you witnessed and how that began your journey of the way that you see money?

Ken Honda 7:11

Yes. So, I realized when I was very little, there are two kinds of people, business people, happy people, and unhappy people. And I witnessed them going through changes of life and the one with happy money tend to do well and the other ones who are struggling, they’re struggling financially because they have unhappy money. And I realized that there are two kinds of money, happy money and unhappy money in business as well.

Candice Wu 7:48

Yeah, can you say more about what happy money and unhappy money looks like?

Ken Honda 7:53

Yes, happy money is money that makes you smile when you receive it, and gives you joy when you spend it, whereas unhappy money makes you frustrated when you receive it and gives you anger, sadness, depression when you spend it, and obviously, unfortunately, 95% of our money is unhappy money.

Candice Wu 8:19

Yeah, I remember, maybe it was like 15 years ago, when I was examining my relationship to money, I read something, somewhere, I can’t remember where now, but it said, when you spend even $1 when you look at the gas prices or something, is there just a pain in you to even spend that dollar? What does it do to you? Or what do you feel when you’re spending that dollar? And I remember it feeling like it was taking away my life force. It was awful, and a lot of anxiety and like I was losing something. And that was the beginning of my shift in my relationship with money. And you spoke to in the book, everyone has a unique dilemma with money and their relationship with money. And how has yours been? What have you noticed in your life?

Ken Honda 9:17

So, there is one interesting thing that happened when I was in elementary grade school. One time, when I came back from school, my father who was a very strong, Samurai type of guy, he was crying like a baby and I’ve never seen adult men cry up to that age. And I thought, my father is not capable of crying, because I’ve never seen him cry in my entire life. And my mother took me aside and she told me that my father’s best friend and his client committed suicide. And not only did he commit suicide; but before he committed suicide, he killed the entire family and then committed suicide. It’s called family suicide, to save the family, from the disgrace of bankruptcy.

Ken Honda 10:13

So, that incident really changed everything, in my life and in my father’s life and my entire family’s life. And he was a very generous, fun loving person. But after that, he feels so guilty for not lending money. He was going to lend money but at that time, if he loaned some money, it would go directly to the loan sharks. So he waited until his friend filed bankruptcy, and then he can give the money to the family. So they can spend a few months to live on. So, he felt partly responsible for the death of the family that made him very depressed and he slipped into alcoholism, and he lost his smile, and all of our family members lost smile, too.

Ken Honda 11:09

So after that, he became very abusive and at that time, I sort of blamed the money for the cause of all the misery. So my beginning was not a happy journey about money. But at the same time, I really made up my mind that when I grow up, I will make sure that my family will have enough money. So they don’t have to go through this.

Candice Wu 11:39

That sounds like such a devastating experience.

Ken Honda 11:42

Right. Yes.

Candice Wu 11:44

For so many.

Ken Honda 11:45

Yeah, when I think back, you know, my father was so confused about the whole thing and I was confused, too. And I think everybody’s so confused. And now we’re in the 21st century, but still, a lot of us are still confused about money. And a lot of fights, a lot of crimes and disputes are caused by money-related stress, I wouldn’t say it’s money. It’s money-related stress. Money is neutral energy. We put so many garbages on to money. So we think it’s money’s fault, but it’s our fault, humans.

Candice Wu 12:29

Yeah, it sounds easier to blame money than to look at what’s going on in our relationship with it or —

Ken Honda 12:35

Right.

Candice Wu 12:36

What do we need to do?

Ken Honda 12:37

Right.

Candice Wu 12:37

And this is what you’ve set your work to.

Ken Honda 12:39

Yes. So since I was 10, 11, I started reading about money and I learned more about business. And so early on, I started my own business, and become financially independent, very young.

Candice Wu 12:55

So there’s this quote that you have in your book, first, the question is, do you use money or does money use you? And it felt so poignant to look at it that way and you began that section of your book with being at the kitchen table with your father and he said, money has two facets like a coin, God and the devil. And that sounds very poignant to the unfolding of your entire viewpoint towards money. And I have seen that as well. And I wonder if you could speak more to that, and your thoughts about it.

Ken Honda 13:39

You know, money could be so different, depending on who you’re talking to. If people with happy money, they say money is great, money helps you, money gives you great opportunities, money takes away all the stress, which is true. And also, the other one with unhappy money, says money is the cause of all frustration, money creates divorces, money creates fights. That’s also the other facet of money. So money can be so many things to so many people and you can choose it.

Candice Wu 14:17

Yeah, there’s something about giving ourselves permission to enjoy money, which you do speak about in your book as well, to receive it, to be open to receiving money or gifts and having joy about it, like, being excited like a child would. I love it when you tie in how children can experience it this way. Yeah, can you speak more to that? That permission that we can give ourselves.

Ken Honda 14:44

You know, money is interesting. When you are willing to receive it, it’s going to come. But when you say no, I’m not worth it. I don’t deserve it, so the money will kind of passes through. So you have to be open to the flow, money is a flow. So, if it flows through you, you’ll be abundant. If money flows in front of you, you have no abundance. So if you are in the flow of money, receive money and then pass it on, that’s abundance. But a lot of us feel so unworthy about receiving money from our clients, from our companies we’re working for and we are afraid to ask for a raise. We are so afraid to receive more. And also we feel frustrated because we have to give away money for taxes and other things that we feel like, ooh, I don’t want to pay but that really creates clogs in your life that stop the flow of money.

Candice Wu 15:52

Yeah, and it feels so bad.

Ken Honda 15:55

Yes.

Candice Wu 15:55

You know, it feels so bad to say, “Oh, I have to pay x y & z.”

Ken Honda 15:59

Yes.

Candice Wu 16:00

And when I really was in that place of feeling bad about money going out from me, paying things, it was so hard to even see that there was another way to be with money.

Ken Honda 16:13

Yes. So think of food, for example, you know, a healthy person eats a lot and then releases a lot. The unhealthy person eats a lot, but not releasing a lot. You know?

Candice Wu 16:30

It gets stuck.

Ken Honda 16:30

Yeah.

Candice Wu 16:31

Exactly.

Ken Honda 16:31

I don’t want to let go.

Candice Wu 16:32

Undigested.

Ken Honda 16:33

Yeah. So it’s not healthy at all when you think of food. But when you think of money, like a lot of people want to stay constipated? Is that the word?

Candice Wu 16:43

Oh, constipated.

Ken Honda 16:45

Constipated? Yes, that’s a hard one.

Candice Wu 16:46

Yeah, it is.

Ken Honda 16:49

They love to be in that situation.

Candice Wu 16:53

To be constipated. They love to stay there.

Ken Honda 16:55

Yes. Even though it’s not quite healthy.

Candice Wu 16:59

Yeah, I had too, in my life, I felt the impact of a lot of my ancestry. And the way that they dealt with money in the story of money. And I love how you asked the question, I believe you said: “If money were a person, what would this person be like? Or who would that be?” And when I was looking at the story of money in my family ancestry, I felt like money was something that divided people, it hurt people and it was something that people hoard and try to stay constipated with, and collect and collect, but it doesn’t really go anywhere and it doesn’t really bring joy.

Ken Honda 17:45

Yeah.

Candice Wu 17:46

It just collects and divides.

Ken Honda 17:47

Yes. So it’s like, when you look at it like a river, if the river flows beautifully and naturally, organically, you know, though, there will be a lot of life. But if you stop the river, you know, it’s going to create a lot of chaos, there will be a flood, and also some areas will be dry and the whole, chaotic situations will occur. So when you just start hoarding money, it’s not good for you and also for the environment too, so instead of hanging on to your money, you have to let it flow, and that will be the ways to keep healthy financially and also emotionally too.

Candice Wu 18:35

Beautiful, yeah, that flow. And can you speak more to how you teach people to get in that flow? Let’s say they do feel that constipation or they —

Ken Honda 18:48

Yeah.

Candice Wu 18:49

Just feel so victim to money, like, no, what if — I’m sure in your many walks of life, and the speaking that you’ve done connecting with so many people in Japan and around the world. What, you know, have you had that question where people say, but really, like, this isn’t working for me?

Ken Honda 19:11

Yes, it’s so true.

Ken Honda 19:13

You know, I’ve, I’ve been fortunate to have many great mentors and one of them is Wahei Takeda who is called Warren Buffett of Japan. And he is one of the wealthiest people in Japan and I had this opportunity to ask him about money, and asking, what is his secret to money? And he said, only one thing: “Thank your money. Arigato your money.” What?

He said: “Arigato in. Arigato out. That means when the money comes in, say thank you to the money, when the money leaves you, also, thank your money. And by doing that, you start this cycle of appreciation in your life, and why I said appreciating about money and worrying about money, you cannot do it at the same time. So if you could focus on appreciation of the money, you will forget about worrying.”

So that’s the beauty of his teaching. So once you start appreciating the money coming in, instead of being frustrated with how little you get, you know, you begin to appreciate your clients, your boss, and all the environment and they react in a positive way.

Ken Honda 20:34

One of my seminar participants was a low paying secretary and she didn’t have a college degree so she didn’t get a high salary. But she was complaining about it, the whole thing and one day, she realized this secret of appreciating, so she started appreciating her boss for giving her the job and she thanked him, and she thanked him in so many other ways. So she became like a different person. A few weeks later, she got to be great. So, you know, without saying much, she showed her appreciation with her attitude and then her boss paid her back. So that’s the beauty of appreciation, what you appreciate, appreciates, if you appreciate money —

Candice Wu 21:26

That is beautiful.

Ken Honda 21:27

The money will also — yeah — be nice to you. So, and it’s not a new age spiritual thing. It’s this psychological impact that people have around appreciation and it works on wonders in family issues, too. If you start appreciating your partners, your kids, your parents, they appreciate you back.

Candice Wu 21:50

Absolutely. And it — as you’re saying, it’s not this new age thing, it’s so tangible, you can feel the visceral feeling of someone appreciating you or when someone appreciates something, there’s a feeling around that. And there’s also so much to appreciate, even if it’s a little money you receive.

Ken Honda 22:12

Yeah, and you know, I’ve been a practical business person all my life. So when I was doing accounting, before my retirement, I divided my clients into two groups. One is a regular group and also the other one is the one with small gifts. Whenever I got to see them, I brought small gifts, like chocolate, a book, or CD or herb tea, and something not too big, and to appreciate their businesses and appreciate about relationships. And six months later, look at what happened from the group, regular group, I didn’t get so many referrals. But the second group with small gifts, I got overwhelmed by the responses that they wanted to refer me to their friends. So with the small gifts, they want to do something for me in return. And that’s the only difference and also the feeling of appreciation, along with the small gifts. And if you feel appreciated by somebody, you appreciate them. So that way, business wise, it really works.

Candice Wu 23:22

That makes sense.

Candice Wu 23:24

The discernment that I feel around what you’re saying is that it really needs to come with appreciation, like a true feeling of that versus just being, I don’t know, a coupon.

Ken Honda 23:33

Yeah.

Candice Wu 23:35

It feels flat, like, Oh, I’m just going to, or if you gave the small gifts just without much meaning. But the meaning you’re imbibing in it is that appreciation and care.

Ken Honda 23:47

Yes, exactly.

Candice Wu 23:49

Yeah. So how do we route through our emotional garbage related to money?

Ken Honda 23:55

You need, like a whole day? But you know —

Candice Wu 24:00

Yeah. Many people need lifetimes, right?

Candice Wu 24:05

Yeah. And you spoke to how important it is to be doing what you love and to be in the appreciation of your gifts, and what you can offer the world and loving that as a way to let the flow in.

Ken Honda 24:05

Yes. Because we’ve accumulated so much garbage around money. You know, first of all, we are worrying about money a lot and we feel frustrated with money. We feel angry, we feel depressed, we feel anxiety around money. And when — I give a lot of counseling, I used to give a lot of counseling to couples, business owners, and housewives so I know how it works. You know, we are addicted to money worries. We are literally addicted because we are so — we stay so paralyzed because we are afraid of money. Because of money fear, we don’t take risks and start doing what we love. We get stuck in these jobs that we don’t like and get stuck in the marriages that we think it’s already over a few years ago. And because of money limitation, we are so afraid to start new ventures in life.

Ken Honda 25:27

Yes.

Candice Wu 25:27

So if we can’t take a risk to do that, it would be very hard to get in the flow.

Ken Honda 25:32

Right. I’ve written more than 20 books on how to find your gifts and how to follow your heart, and it’s very important. But going back a little bit about money emotions, unless you kind of heal these emotions around money, you are so paralyzed. So, you know, we are so stuck. So we know somewhere deep inside, we want to do what we’d love. But we feel like we don’t deserve that good life or we don’t have enough resources financially, mentally, whatever the reasons, we cannot afford to do whatever we love. So unless we heal these money issues and transform our relationship around money, we cannot really start living.

Candice Wu 26:25

Yeah, and in that way, we can’t really afford not to do what we love in life, because we’re really not living.

Ken Honda 26:33

Yes. But unfortunately, not only in Japan, in North America, Europe, China, Africa, India, everywhere -countries everywhere, we’re stuck. Because we are so confused about money. And when you take a look at the issues really closely, we’re not afraid of money, we are afraid of a bad future, to be precise, we are afraid of the future without any money, we are afraid of running out of money in the future. And then no money is no good. You know, it’s scary. Because everything is tied up, we cannot pay for the rent, electricity, so we’ll be homeless, we cannot eat, you know, all these survival issues will come up. But when you take a look at it, it’s nothing to do with money, because I’ve interviewed millionaires intensively and I’ve found at least three or four times before they became a millionaire, they experience a situation without any money. But that didn’t kill them. What kills people is the fear of the situation with no money.

Candice Wu 27:52

That makes complete sense and it seems like in my experience, whether that’s your personal experience, that something has happened, and it was scary or maybe terrifying, that instead of recognizing it’s the fear of that, versus that we often just say, Oh, it was money, and then we kind of like, drop the issue or something, you know, we leave it there; with blaming money. And I found in my work with people in their ancestry, and in my own ancestry that a lot of times, it’s someone in the past that experienced something that did happen, perhaps around money, or perhaps around loved ones, where the money is at, is losing a loved one and the fear and the pain around that was so great it was stuck there without looking at it and healing it all the way through and feeling it, and so it carried on for generations, and it can get placed to money.

Ken Honda 28:56

Yes, that’s your expertise and I agree with you a hundred percent. It’s kind of hard to believe psychologically and scientifically, because the grand grandparents that you don’t even know the names and the faces, they’re just influencing you. It’s almost like the experiences you had last year. Yeah, so I do a lot of healing around money issues, too. So I’m sure you’ll find my work very interesting because what you do must be very similar to what I do. You know, it’s developed in very different ways. But the core issues are the same.

Candice Wu 29:38

Absolutely. I feel that when I read your book and does it come up in your work with people? The ancestry and people that lived before them?

Ken Honda 29:51

Yes. Our culture is so oriented with our ancestry. So we have a little altar, usually every Japanese house as a small altar and then we have these pictures of our grandparents, grand grandparents and then we worship a few times a year, and about our ancestries. So we really respect our heritage and I think that’s something Western people don’t seem to have, as much as we do. So as much as we show respect to our ancestry, a lot of us are restricted from our ancestry. For example, one of my friends feels so unworthy and also so restrictive when it comes to changing jobs because he is a fifth-generation of photographers. And then if he is doing photography, actually, he wants to do more music, but he feels like all his ancestors will be upset if he changed his career to music. So that’s probably what North American people or European people don’t have.

Candice Wu 31:10

And yet that experience of being restricted or perhaps being resourced or strengthened by ancestry still exists, even if the sense of the everyday practice of ritual isn’t there?

Ken Honda 31:27

That’s true. So true.

Candice Wu 31:28

Yeah, still living there under these things.

Ken Honda 31:32

Yes.

Candice Wu 31:33

As I see exactly what you’re saying, the sense of this is how I belong to my family if I’m a photographer, too.

Ken Honda 31:41

Yeah, so I do a lot of family shame cleansing too, you know, because we have so many shames passed on from our grand grandparents, like 150 years ago, you know, and then they feel like that they shouldn’t be so flashy and they shouldn’t spend so much money, because we are the farmers. So you know, the time — when their ancestors are farmers are like, more than a hundred years ago, but their grand grandparents used to say, we are farmers, so we don’t, you know, wear flashy clothes. And that passed on to grandparents and parents, and now you’re living in the 21st century, but still, we are living in, you know, in the 1800s almost.

Candice Wu 32:35

Absolutely. I see that as well. So how do you work with the shame cleansing? What do you do?

Ken Honda 32:41

Yeah. So, you know, I always ask my clients to gather all the ancestors and relatives. And some of them, they have the pictures, some of them, they just asked them to just, you know, come to support me. So instead of being the object of the curse, from your ancestry, you just feel the support and respect and care from your parents, grandparents, grand grandparents. So once you feel that you are bound with this shame generation generationally. So all, like, 20 of you can come together, for the first time in history of your family. You know, it’s kind of neat, because they don’t live in the same age. But you can do that in a spiritual way. And then you get them to talk about the shame that your parents had, and you can imagine your grandparents had, and then the rest is almost like in your imagination. And after that, you put camp fire in the center of the circle, and then put all the shame and let it burn. And with the blessings of all your ancestry, and after doing a little meditation of some kind, you know, you feel so much lighter, and amazingly, their financial situation changes in a few weeks. So I don’t know how it works. Some people think I’m a spiritual healer of some sort. But I think it’s just your inner psyche that once you’re free of burden of shame and guilt, I think the money flow can be more smooth.

Candice Wu 34:37

That’s beautiful.

Ken Honda 34:38

I’m sure Candice, you’re the expert. So you know, what I’m talking about. Right?

Candice Wu 34:44

I do, and it’s beautiful, what you’re describing, it’s — I just find it really fascinating too, that it’s very much in line with some of the practices that I’m working with. And I love how it sounds like and you can let me know, it sounds like this is coming very much from the tradition of Japanese culture of ancestry and your creativity of how you can work with your imagination and invite, as well as what is the felt sense or what’s real about inviting your ancestors in.

Candice Wu 35:19

Yes, I find that it can be — it can feel spiritual, who’s to say it’s not, but also it does live in the psyche. There are so many of these beliefs and feelings and when we put them into the light and in your experience that you’re offering, put them in the camp fire and let them burn with blessing. That’s really transforming, something on the inside, for us.

Ken Honda 35:46

Yes.

Candice Wu 35:47

Which gives way to the outside.

Ken Honda 35:49

Yeah. So as you can see —

Candice Wu 35:52

Beautiful.

Ken Honda 35:52

Thank you. As you can see, I’m not just doing this for Japanese families, I’m doing it globally, because look at what happened since the 1930s or even before then, since capitalism started, look at how much shame, guilt, embarrassment, greed, we’ve accumulated energetically on this planet, that’s what’s messing up the environment. So if we can somehow coordinate globally, mentally, spiritually, look at all the issues, and then heal this money wounds, because super-wealthy people feel guilt and upper-middle-class people feel upset and because they’re not treated equally, and the middle class and lower-middle-class people feel frustrated, because somebody is taking advantage, you know, of it. And then financially challenged people feel shame around money. So if all of us get together, and then heal these money wounds and emotions around money, globally, I think there will be a planetary shift. So that’s why I wrote this book, Happy Money.

Candice Wu 37:06

I love that. I resonate with that a lot, that if we are able to shift the energy within us and in our relationship with money and with interaction with other people with money, that just trickles out to everything. And the way, you know, I think, tell me what you’re thinking here. But when you say that this is a global wound and it’s hurting the planet, I think about how, at times there’s greed or fear, fueling how people want to make money and then they may do things that would hurt the planet, or may not consider those facets because they feel like they’re just in survival mode. And there may be many other reasons but feels like it influences our decisions on what we buy, what we offer to sell, and how we live, what would you say?

Ken Honda 38:17

You know, I do a lot of money counseling to different generations, what I found is like, millenniums and younger people, they have a totally different attitude about money. So people in the 30s, 40s, 50s, they love shopping, but the younger people, they love to shop less, and then they want to shop, more fairly traded stuff instead of buying five different jackets and shirts. They are satisfied with a one fairly traded the shirt, and they feel pride in it, and so instead of having more and more, new generations, they’re feeling like satisfaction and fairness, and less, which is so beautiful, because younger people are more advanced in the history of humankind. So they know, the way we’ve been living doesn’t work, and it doesn’t support the planet. So I think there will be a lot less and less consumption of cheap stuff. Instead, I think more about fairly traded stuff will be out there in the market. So there will be less exploitation for young laborers and low paying jobs in developing countries. So I think, as a whole, we’re evolving in a beautiful way.

Ken Honda 40:01

When you take a look —

Candice Wu 40:02

Beautiful.

Ken Honda 40:02

— planetary shift, our place is much better than 200 years ago, 100 years ago, or 70 years ago after the war. You know, there are wars and the people who are in the war zone, it’s estimated about 3 to 5 million people. So in other words, you know, 6 billion and 997 million people are not in war. So globally, we’re shifting beautifully. But you know, not there yet. But I think we’re getting there. So, but we need to have this planetary shift and it has to come from the individual, and it has to come from within. And I think the key is appreciation about who you are and if you can appreciate who you are, you don’t need more stuff. That means less shopping, less money spending, more money in your pocket. So you feel less stress about money and then more satisfaction in life. So more appreciation is really the start of the whole thing.

Candice Wu 41:17

Yeah, that’s beautiful and I think that really hits the core.

Ken Honda 41:22

Yeah, a lot of us are creating money issues because we spend simply too much. The reason is that we feel so stressed, so we shop. I heard retail therapy is a word in English and I thought it’s pretty funny. You know, when I first heard about the retail therapy, I thought the shop attendants will give you therapy and so I thought it’s a service or something, you know, extra service. So I find it’s very funny, very American way of creating words.

Candice Wu 42:05

That’s hilarious.

Ken Honda 42:06

Yeah.

Candice Wu 42:08

Yeah, I think it’s our way of naming something without really actually going deeper in a way. You know, it’s funny, retail therapy, it’s saying exactly what it is. We want to feel better.

Ken Honda 42:23

Yeah, I thought there’s a there’s like, a free, you know, therapist in a shopping mall or something. So like, you just confess, I shop too much.

Ken Honda 42:36

Yeah.

Candice Wu 42:37

You bring your shopping confessions in.

Ken Honda 42:39

Yeah, if you bring a receipt that you bought something at the shopping mall, you can get a free session or something. That’s like a massage thing. If you’re a loyal customer, you get free therapy. Oh, you shop too much. Come back next week.

Candice Wu 42:56

Oh, let’s feed the addiction.

Ken Honda 43:01

Yeah, but you know, it’s funny, but it’s everywhere, in China and Japan. You know, one of the fun comments, one of the fun taglines in one of the most popular shopping centers in Japan. You know, it’s supposed to be a joke. Japanese people make jokes, too. And then, at the entrance of the shopping mall, it says, “Buy now, regret later at home.”

Candice Wu 43:31

That’s funny.

Ken Honda 43:32

Straight, but that’s what they say, and people smile —

Candice Wu 43:36

Yeah.

Ken Honda 43:36

And they give them permission to shop more.

Candice Wu 43:40

Yeah. If there’s a little humor about it and a good feeling about it, then —

Ken Honda 43:44

Yeah. Shop now regret later when you go home.

Candice Wu 43:49

Oh, funny.

Ken Honda 43:50

Yeah. So they don’t hide their marketing strategy.

Candice Wu 43:55

Right. We’re just being transparent with you.

Ken Honda 43:58

Yeah. So I think it’s everywhere. But once you satisfy with what you have, you don’t have this drive to buy more, you know, do more. So you’d be more content with who you are. That’s my Zen philosophy around money. So it doesn’t, you know, require a lot of money. You don’t have to be a millionaire, a billionaire, in order to be in peace with money.

Candice Wu 44:26

Yeah, for a long time, I felt like I needed to have enough and then it was a question, well, what is enough? And what does that even mean? And where’s that coming from? A lot of it was feeling enough in myself, that I’m enough but it also related to a whole shift in the paradigm of money from the accumulation and reaching some sort of bar, even though I appreciate that, if that’s happening. That feeling like, I’ll always have what I need when I need it and that I have this relationship with money that feels more joyful.

Candice Wu 45:11

Someone told me, one of my business consultants early on, told me, her view of money was the exchange of joy from one person with a calling to another.

Ken Honda 45:22

That’s beautiful.

Candice Wu 45:23

Yeah. And when she said that, it really clicked something in me that that’s how I want it to be and that’s how I wanted it to feel on both ways. You know, if I offer a service, and someone’s paying for it, my wishes that they feel they’re excited to give money in exchange for the service or for the gift of the work together and vice versa. If I’m working with someone, I’m so happy to give them what they feel they want for it. And it’s exciting when it feels good for both people.

Ken Honda 45:56

Yes.

Candice Wu 45:57

And so just looking at that whole paradigm of accumulation and thinking we need to be in a certain place but then if you really look at your life, like what do you really want and need? And how are you feeling? How are you feeling?

Ken Honda 46:18

Yeah.

Candice Wu 46:18

I think is a lot of what you’re saying.

Ken Honda 46:22

Yeah. So, thank you. You said it so beautifully in other words.

Ken Honda 46:27

So, you know, one of my greatest joy is to find people with happy money everywhere. So without knowing what happy money is, they are in the flow of happy money. So that’s their way of appreciating their life, expressing their joy, about their life and we need more people like that on this planet. And, because there are many different ways of living on this planet right now, some depressing, some enlightening, some freeing, but when it comes down to living a happy life, there are only two ways, happy life or unhappy life. So I hope everybody feels content with who they are, who he is, or who she is, and start living his or her true life, authentic life. Because that is, I believe that’s why we’re born for, you know, express our gifts and start appreciating what we have and sharing with other people.

Candice Wu 47:37

I couldn’t agree with you more.

Ken Honda 47:39

Thank you.

Candice Wu 47:40

Thank you. Yeah. And so in this place of peace with your life, and it sounds like harmony with who you are and offering to be in your gifts, do you encounter any challenges?

Ken Honda 47:56

Yes. Because emotions hit you hard every day. You know, you feel anxiety and shame, disappointments, and a lot is going to attack you almost, you know. So you have to have this same mentality. Not too much excitement, not too many disappointments, because your life is in the middle. And, for example, when you start earning money, just be practical. For example, if you have more than fifty friends who can let you stay for a week, for free, I’m sure you have at least five or ten friends. And, if you have that many friends, you know, after 52 weeks, which is a year, you can come back to friend number one and say it’s been a while, how are you doing? And then you can start over the next year. So by doing that, you know, you don’t need any money to keep living. So once you realize that you need friends to depend on, not money, seek security in people, not in money, you’ll realize that you have more than enough.

Candice Wu 49:19

Yeah, it’s such a nice way to look at it and also to appreciate the relationships in your life that are part of the resource.

Candice Wu 49:29

Yes, and trust life. Because your friends and your family members and the people who love you will not let you down if you fall, they will catch you, but you have to let them know that you need help. That’s another issue. We are so good at giving but so bad at receiving. So, you know, that’s —

Candice Wu 49:52

It’s like if we can’t receive then —

Ken Honda 49:54

Yeah.

Candice Wu 49:55

Yeah.

Ken Honda 49:56

A lot of, you know, yeah, I give a lot of counseling to single mothers too. But the problem is, they have a hard time asking for help. But once they ask for help, their neighbors, their friends, and family member has, you know, they’re going to, they’re ready to jump on and help you and you’ll be overwhelmed by the support you get but, you know, if you just don’t ask, people don’t know that you’re in trouble or you need help.

Candice Wu 50:26

Yeah, and the way you’re speaking about this, it feels like looking at where we’re blocked in our own energy of trust and abundance. Where’s our psyche or soul asking us to grow?

Ken Honda 50:43

Yes.

Candice Wu 50:44

In the case of a single mother having a hard time asking for help, because that’s a challenge. It may be blocking everything, and that we’re meant to have all the skills and tools that we can in life. And I think that’s where we are flowing the best.

Ken Honda 51:02

Yes. So you have to be vulnerable, to be able to ask for support, because people love to give you one. And you know, we’re good at giving. So remember, if you’re bad at receiving, but there are more people who are good at giving, and you can complete the cycle of giving and receiving by being a receiver. We need people to receive.

Candice Wu 51:31

Absolutely. We need people to receive. I like how you’re putting that.

Ken Honda 51:37

Yeah, thank you. I’m so glad you like what I’m saying because whatever I say may sound Japanese or sometimes weird or strange. But what I’m, whatever I’m saying, is has been proven, with great results over the past two decades. So I think it’s going to work in North America, or in any other culture. Because once we start trusting life, start receiving, and asking for support, you know, you uplift yourself spiritually, emotionally, and financially too. You’d be amazed at how many people would jump on you. They’re going to eat you up, and they’re going to support you.

Ken Honda 52:21

Yeah, and you’ll be overwhelmed by the love.

Candice Wu 52:25

Yeah, you know, I have a very concrete example of that. I was in Austin, Texas for a training and I had gotten an Airbnb, and slept in the first night and the second night, something happened at three in the morning. I don’t think I was in danger, but there was a lot of noise. It was a shared apartment and I just felt like, Oh, I cannot be here and really rest well for my training that I really wanted to partake in. And so I gathered all my things, and that morning, I decided to leave that Airbnb and not come back. I didn’t have a car or anything. So I’m walking with all my stuff, you know, walking like a mile over to the place. And someone said, What’s going on? You have all your stuff. Are you leaving? And I said, no, actually, and I told them the truth, you know, I’m really struggling with where I’m staying. So I thought I would just bring all my stuff and figure it out. But I am looking for a place to stay. And at least seven people offered their home.

Ken Honda 53:36

Beautiful.

Candice Wu 53:36

In a matter of a few hours.

Ken Honda 53:40

Because you are so lovable.

Candice Wu 53:44

Thank you. It was so loving and I felt so welcomed and those relationships that I’m building there, I love them. And there’s so much joy around that. And this isn’t specifically about money, even though I might have had to spend some money to go to a place and now I didn’t need to. But I think that just really is a nice example of what you’re saying.

Ken Honda 54:10

Yes, exactly.

Candice Wu 54:11

About reaching out and people wanting to help.

Ken Honda 54:14

Yes. So thank you for sharing this story.

Candice Wu 54:17

Oh, yes. Thank you.

Candice Wu 54:19

I wanted to ask one more question, Ken.

Ken Honda 54:21

Yes.

Candice Wu 54:22

There’s a lot of racial tension, racial and ethnic tension in the United States about money, that connects with money, in relationship to money. And, for example, this idea of social reproduction, that if you’re born into a place of a certain race or ethnicity in the States, or maybe in the world, that it’s very hard for someone to climb out of that, because it’s so culturally embedded. And the experiences that one might have growing up, are completely different than someone who has wealth. So we’re looking at social class, from this kind of constructive thinking, right? There’s that, and there’s also the amount of trauma that African Americans have experienced in our country as well as Native Americans, Asian Americans, Latino Americans, so many, that I’m not naming, are having such a traumatic history in the connection with the United States.

Candice Wu 55:33

There’s also so much that was to gain, you know, coming here, I think people saw opportunity, family’s opportunity, and perhaps they did get it. And in some cases, maybe they didn’t. But there’s this hurt and wounding around being here and that does connect to how much money people feel they’re being paid here, or it does seem to bring about the mentality that how can certain groups of people come to find abundance if all this happened. And that it seems to be a societal, the way many people speak of it as societal disease, that relates to how we’re treating people. And so I wonder what your thoughts about it are and what you recommend to somebody that feels like they’re in that position?

Ken Honda 56:30

Yeah. So, you know, since I’m not a politician, I don’t — I’m not in a position of commenting what’s going on politically. But what I know is that people of all, ethnicity or older financial groups, they all feel that they’re mistreated. Now, wealthy people feel like, why they have to pay more taxes, you know, and upper-middle-class people feel the same way, like, all the taxes that they’re paying, are going to poor neighborhoods, you know, like, why am I paying for them? And the poor people feel like, you know, they’re not getting paid enough. They’re not getting enough attention. You know, so everybody’s upset.

Ken Honda 57:22

It’s so interesting from outsiders in North America, everybody seems so upset, you know. I’m not for your President, or I’m not against your president. But whatever I said, everybody gets emotionallycharged. So, you know, I know our Prime Minister, some people say bad things or good things, but we are families, we will not be divided because of him, you know, he doesn’t have that much power.

Ken Honda 57:53

So when you look at the issues, you feel like, it’s not fair. You know, it’s not — people think it’s not fair. And also, we are born with more talent and some are born with pretty faces, and, you know, cute faces, handsome, so we feel like, you know, it’s not, we’re not equally treated. And it’s true, when you look at lives, you know, some people are born with, all the great stuff. But when you think of happiness, I think it’s so fair. Because I have done a lot of counseling for people who come from a wealthy background and more money doesn’t necessarily translate into happiness. And also, you’re born into a very challenging place, but that doesn’t mean that you’ll be doomed. Because that gives you the right motivation to go up.

Ken Honda 59:00

So in terms of that, I think life is very fair. I call it the distance to happiness is equally the same even if you’re born in a super wealthy family, you have a great body, you know, good looking, and smart, you know, head. But if you don’t have the right attitude, you feel very miserable. So it’s nothing to do with how much again, how much you have or how much you make, it’s who you are. So the distance to happiness is amazingly equal. So I think it’s great news for all of us. So if, because the reason I’m saying is that, even though you have a private jet, if you’re not satisfied with your jet, you feel miserable.

Ken Honda 59:52

In one time, I had an interview with a very wealthy man and asked him when did you start feeling wealthy. And he said: “I don’t feel wealthy at all”. I asked him why? He said: “I don’t have a private jet”. And then later, I had a meeting with a guy with a private jet. “So do you feel wealthy?” And he says: “No, I’m not a wealthy person, no, I am financially okay.” and I said: “But you have a private jet”. And he said: “No. It’s small. It’s a small airplane. It can sit only six people.” So even —

Candice Wu 1:00:31

It’s all relative.

Ken Honda 1:00:32

Yeah, even though he has a private jet, he said, my private jet is very small. So he feels like a small man when his plane is parked, in you know, right next to the big super jet.

Candice Wu 1:00:47

Fascinating.

Ken Honda 1:00:48

Yeah. So you know, he feels so miserable in this, you know, parking area of big airplanes. So yeah, he feels very poor.

Candice Wu 1:00:58

Yeah. Wow.

Ken Honda 1:01:00

And then probably, if I can grab somebody with a big jet, he says, all my seats are like regularly installed one. It’s not custom made or something, you know, because all the royal families from the Middle East they put everything gold. So —

Candice Wu 1:01:17

Yeah. This is so refreshing, to hear you say that life is fair and the distance to happiness is amazingly equal. I do think that is very much a relief and it does challenge us to let go of or wipe away or look at why we have believed that money is going to solve every issue and money makes happiness, right? It can make happiness, but it doesn’t in all cases. And you have some really beautiful examples of how that’s true. And I think the illusion of people that feel like they’re not rich, or wealthy is that somehow it would, having more would make them happier. And what you’re saying that the distance to happiness is always the same, it’s equal for all people, no matter the situation, it doesn’t, it challenges us to see that it’s more than about money itself, which is everything you’re speaking to.

Ken Honda 1:02:37

Yeah. So, you know, don’t get discouraged that you have little money, or, you know, life is not treating you fairly, you may feel that way. But it’s not going to last for the rest of your life. It’s a temporary situation, and if you, you know, make it that way. So just be willing to receive more, ask for help if you’re in a hard spot, and then you just start your life and don’t let money stop you so, and let money help you.

Candice Wu 1:03:04

That’s a beautiful place to conclude today. Is there anything else you’d like to share?

Ken Honda 1:03:10

Thank you, once again, Candice. You’re such a beautiful person and I can really feel you’re impacting the world in such a beautiful way, so keep going.

Ken Honda 1:03:21

Yes, it’s not going to cost you anything. And then when you spend your money, also say thank you, you know, it’s going to give you such a great feeling, and then it’s going to transform your life. I’ve taught this to hundreds of thousands of people and it works. So just try it out for once. And then you’ll be hooked to this arigato world, because it’s more fun to appreciate people and being appreciated. It’s a happier way of living.

Ken Honda 1:03:21

And listeners, please be open to new ideas. Arigato in, Arigato out when the money comes in. Try that next time. Thank your money.

Candice Wu 1:03:34

Yeah.

Candice Wu 1:03:41

Thank you so much, Ken. It’s been such a pleasure. I really enjoyed laughing with you and talking about this important subject, important to all people, and I just love how you’re bringing the lightness to it, and guiding people to look truly at what’s underneath it, and to be themselves in life, to find peace with themselves which gives peace with money. And, Arigato.

Ken Honda 1:04:39

Thank you so much. Arigato everyone. Have a beautiful life.

Candice Wu 1:04:43

Thank you so much.

Ken Honda 1:04:44

Thank you so much

Candice Wu 1:04:45

Have a beautiful life as well.

Ken Honda 1:04:47

Thank you. It’s been such a great experience for me. I had so much fun with you and hope to see you soon in person and all the blessings to you.

Candice Wu 1:04:59

Thank you so much. So I would have to meet you in Japan.

Ken Honda 1:05:02

Yes.

Candice Wu 1:05:03

Where can people find you?

Candice Wu 1:05:04

Thank you so much.

Ken Honda 1:05:04

Yes, come anytime, all my information is KenHonda.com, KEN, and Honda as in the car company. So you’ll find all the information there. So, I will translate a lot of stuff into English. I’m going to make a lot of my courses for free so people can benefit from what I teach. So just look at the information. I’m so happy to share what I know. So I hope you learn how to appreciate more.

Ken Honda 1:05:35

Thank you.

Candice Wu 1:05:36

Thanks to you and your family Ken.

Ken Honda 1:05:37

Thank you.

Candice Wu 1:05:38

I love the energy that Ken brings to our relationship with money and just seeping in these very simple concepts that we can weave into our lives immediately like, Arigato in, arigato out, and it even feels better to say that in Japanese, but to say thank you, as money comes in and thank you as it goes out, to give that gratitude in both directions, just feels like it can be a thing you start right now.

Candice Wu 1:06:13

And I hope that this conversation has been interesting for you and stimulating for you just as much as it has been for me. And if you’ve been listening all the way through and want to partake of the audience gift offer, please send me a couple of sentences about anything that inspired you or what you thought of the episode, or any message that you’d like me to send to Ken as well about your thoughts on this podcast and what he has offered, what we have offered. If you send that to me in email, at [email protected] by October 1st, 2019, you will be entered in the drawing for one lucky winner to receive this hard copy of Ken’s book, Happy Money. If you’ve missed this deadline and still want to send feedback, I would love to hear it and I’m sure Ken would, as well. And there will be future offers like this where you can receive a copy of a book by the author. So tune into those episodes as they come along and usually it will be about a week and a half that you have in terms of the timing to get back to me, to be entered in the drawing. So again, you can send me an email at [email protected] or just go to my site Candicewu.com and find the Connect page, and send a couple of sentences with your feedback or thoughts, reactions, etc. I love to hear from you and thanks for participating.

Candice Wu 1:07:44

I also encourage you to check out Ken’s website where he’ll have other books coming out, events and talks and where you can find information on him and his book at KenHonda.com, as well as his Facebook page at facebook.com/kenhondahappymoney.

Candice Wu 1:08:04

So as we end the episode today, I would like to invite you to be part of my bi-monthly newsletter. Sign up for that at CandiceWu.com/embody. This is where you can also receive information about events that are coming up offerings, podcast guests, and other good stuff like self-love notes, information, pictures of me and things that I’m up to as well. So we will end our podcast today. Thanks so much for listening and it feels just rightfully fitting to say, Arigato out.